"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...

Is there a part of this you're not quite able to grasp?

Your signature snotty attitude is offensive and uncalled for. There are
two
sides to every story. When I sent the U 89 to Neumann for a checkup, they
found several things not quite right and fixed them. I thanked them for
their thuroughness. (Hey, maybe that's why you never liked that U 89!)
Anyway, with a crapped out FET, it would be difficult to really know what
else was wrong with your friend's 414. Know what I mean, bud?


OK... so the answer to my original question was "yes, there is a part of
this you seem totally unable to grasp". Well... as I mentioned before, the
head of the mic in question was put on the body on it's sister microphone...
and was determined to be working properly... hence why it was sent to AKG...
it was determined to not be a capsule problem.

Now, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... chances are pretty
****in' good it's a duck Ty... so, by extrapolation... if the capsule seems
to be hunky dory on another body of the same type microphone, chances are
pretty ****in' good that the capsule was fine. No?

Is there a part I left out somewhere?

While I'm quite sure Neumann found **** wrong with your U-89i [...and that a
good portion of that **** started in the design phase of the project], I
fail to see how that situation is even remotely germane to the situation
I've outlined.

Is it too much to keep it apples to apples instead of this apples to grapes
reasoning? Just curious.

To recap... my bud determined the capsule was fine, he sent the mic to AKG
for non-capsule related service. AKG performed the requested service, and
some non-requested service for reasons unknown. My friend was ****ed,
requested the return of his original capsule, which they were unable to do
as the original capsule was not labeled as being from my friend's mic. The
returned capsule was subsequently sent out to be rebuilt and installed in
his microphone, which was an unnecessary expense to my friend of about
$1,000-.

So... exactly how did you get that it's my friend's fault? I'm a little
lost here... wanna help me out?
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...

You don't see squat, my friend; at least about this issue and me. That you
hear the TLM 103 and 414 as a family of crappiness is not my problem.
Happy
holidays!

Now about those mercenary versions of the mics...

Well the "Mercenary Edition" of the 414 would start with a brass ringed
CK-12 capsule...
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

Fletcher wrote:


Well the "Mercenary Edition" of the 414 would start with a brass ringed
CK-12 capsule...

That would be a tough microphone to make. A couple years back I had my
hands on an unused CK-12 (brass) capsule that a guy traded me for some
other stuff. I sold it on eBay for 1000 dollars. More than I got for a
whole 414 with the brass capsule, which sold for about 7 or 8 hundred.

-Rob

Ty Ford" wrote in message
Now about those mercenary versions of the mics...


Well the "Mercenary Edition" of the 414 would start with a brass ringed
CK-12 capsule...
--
Fletcher


Scuttle-butt has it that AKG has a dump truck full of the brass CK-12 capsules
from their unadvertised upgrades.
gr


--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-

"P Stamler" wrote in message
...

This would be like taking your Volvo in for brakes, having them change
the
fuel intake system without authorization to an inferior unit... then
having
to have an original style fuel intake system rebuilt and reinstalled on
your
Volvo for $1,000-.

Don't doctors do this sort of thing?

No, they don't touch brakes.


Next time I brake my arm I won't bother going to a doctor then .....

geoff

"Fletcher" wrote in message
k.net...
"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...

You don't see squat, my friend; at least about this issue and me. That
you
hear the TLM 103 and 414 as a family of crappiness is not my problem.
Happy
holidays!

Now about those mercenary versions of the mics...

Well the "Mercenary Edition" of the 414 would start with a brass ringed
CK-12 capsule...

Naaa. Brass is for plumbers. Telfon is space-age.

geoff

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1071234323k@trad...

In article
writes:

Actually, there are some who would point the finger at Neumann
for the TLM 103 and KM 184 for examples of Neumann dropping its
standards.

But so far I haven't heard stories about people sending their KM84s
in for repair and getting them back with KM184 capsules.


Ever heard of them sending in a 1974 KM84 and getting it back with a
replacement 1994 KM84 capsule ?

But I suppose they are identical anyway ...


geoff

(Ty Ford)

This is a very good example of a point I keep trying to make The mic/pramp
combo is very individual. A TLM 103 into a two channel Focusrite RED is
edgey. A TLM 103 through a GML is more flat. A TLM 103 through an HHB Radius
40 is downright meaty. Not so meaty through an Aphex 1100, but also not
sizzle and boom.

Well - I have _tried_ to use 414B-ULS and the 414B-TL's for vocals with
SSL and Neve Vr micpres, and the B-ULS with Soundtracs MRX and Millennia HV3
micpres too, and they have always sounded gritty and raspy. Nothing there to
suggest that up close, where most project studio guys want an $800 mic, they
are very desirable.

Lots of better mics for the new money (like a Beyer MC834), but they can
be useful in mid-distance applications once you know what to expect from them.
But hey, I had this AKG "SolidTube" I bought for $400 that I _swear_ sounded
great with my Soundtracs micpres...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

In article -nospam writes:

Ever heard of them sending in a 1974 KM84 and getting it back with a
replacement 1994 KM84 capsule ?

But I suppose they are identical anyway ...

Maybe, maybe not. But guys, you gotta remember that to a microphone
manufacturer, it's a cheaper job to replace a capsule than to repair
it other than just cleaning. If you really, really, really want to
keep your old capsle no matter what it takes to repair it (and this
almost certianly means historical reasons - put a new diaphragm on an
old backplate and it'll sound different than the last time you heard
the mic work) don't send it back to the manufacturer, send it to a
microphone specialist.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In Article t, "Fletcher"
wrote:

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...

Is there a part of this you're not quite able to grasp?

Your signature snotty attitude is offensive and uncalled for. There are
two
sides to every story. When I sent the U 89 to Neumann for a checkup, they
found several things not quite right and fixed them. I thanked them for
their thuroughness. (Hey, maybe that's why you never liked that U 89!)
Anyway, with a crapped out FET, it would be difficult to really know what
else was wrong with your friend's 414. Know what I mean, bud?

Your inability to get an grasp on what I'm saying is only bested by your
ability to put words in my mouth that don't belong there. How nice for you
that you can hold up both sides of the conversation so well.

Ty Ford



**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In Article t, "Fletcher"
wrote:
"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...

You don't see squat, my friend; at least about this issue and me. That you
hear the TLM 103 and 414 as a family of crappiness is not my problem.
Happy
holidays!

Now about those mercenary versions of the mics...

Well the "Mercenary Edition" of the 414 would start with a brass ringed
CK-12 capsule...


OK. here's the gauntlet. I'm getting my ice skates out ready for July.


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
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click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In Article , "Geoff Wood"
-nospam wrote:

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1071234323k@trad...

In article
writes:

Actually, there are some who would point the finger at Neumann
for the TLM 103 and KM 184 for examples of Neumann dropping its
standards.

But so far I haven't heard stories about people sending their KM84s
in for repair and getting them back with KM184 capsules.


Ever heard of them sending in a 1974 KM84 and getting it back with a
replacement 1994 KM84 capsule ?

But I suppose they are identical anyway ...


geoff


Um, GASP!! In most mfgr's literature, there's a note about changes they may
make along the way, like BRASS TO TEFLON. If they didn't, we'd still be
using carbon mics and ribbons.


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In Article ,
ospam (WillStG) wrote:
(Ty Ford)

This is a very good example of a point I keep trying to make The mic/pramp
combo is very individual. A TLM 103 into a two channel Focusrite RED is
edgey. A TLM 103 through a GML is more flat. A TLM 103 through an HHB Radius
40 is downright meaty. Not so meaty through an Aphex 1100, but also not
sizzle and boom.

Well - I have _tried_ to use 414B-ULS and the 414B-TL's for vocals with
SSL and Neve Vr micpres, and the B-ULS with Soundtracs MRX and Millennia HV3
micpres too, and they have always sounded gritty and raspy. Nothing there to
suggest that up close, where most project studio guys want an $800 mic, they
are very desirable.

Will,

I'm not disagreeing with you. If they suck through those pres for you they
they do. An interesting point; you like em better at a distance? (oh yeah,
see below...)

Lots of better mics for the new money (like a Beyer MC834), but they can
be useful in mid-distance applications once you know what to expect from them.
But hey, I had this AKG "SolidTube" I bought for $400 that I _swear_ sounded
great with my Soundtracs micpres...

Will Miho

And if you like it, fine. I liked its features better than its sound.

Regards,

Ty Ford



**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

(Ty Ford) wrote:

[...]
Um, GASP!! In most mfgr's literature, there's a note about changes they may
make along the way, like BRASS TO TEFLON. If they didn't, we'd still be
using carbon mics and ribbons.

But, as David Josephson said, there are some pretty fundamental
differences between the two putative CK12 capsules, going pretty far
beyond brass vs. teflon on the tensioning ring. It stretches my
notion of what constitutes "the same capsule".

Luke

Mike Rivers wrote:

But so far I haven't heard stories about people sending their KM84s
in for repair and getting them back with KM184 capsules. As I
understand it (and I've never taken either far enough apart to make my
own judgement) they're quite different so considering a KM184 capsule
as a "free upgrade" to a KM84 would never be considered.

While agreeing with your larger point, I hereby compulsively nit-pick:

[a] I think that the successor to the KM 84 would be the KM 140 so far as
detachable, interchangeable capsules are concerned, but the transducer
portion of the AK 40 capsule head for the KM 140 is the same as in the
KK 84 and as in the KM 184 (it's other parts that are different);

[b] Last I checked, Neumann USA doesn't attempt to repair this type of
capsule if it is damaged, except to replace or refasten a contact needle.
If anything else is seriously wrong they suggest replacement. Perhaps
they do more over in Germany to save a capsule, but I don't know.

[c] As one might expect given the huge number of KM 84s that were sold,
Neumann still makes and sells replacement KK 84 capsule heads. I bought
two of them around this time last year, and to me they sound like the ones
I had in the mid-1970s (i.e. rather good). But:

[d] They cost $490 each, and though I haven't checked lately, many prices
at Neumann USA have gone up since then. So they're not something that
Neumann is likely to throw in on a repair job by surprise, in my opinion.

In article writes:

While agreeing with your larger point, I hereby compulsively nit-pick:

[a] I think that the successor to the KM 84 would be the KM 140 so far as
detachable, interchangeable capsules are concerned, but the transducer
portion of the AK 40 capsule head for the KM 140 is the same as in the
KK 84 and as in the KM 184 (it's other parts that are different);

Not only you, but Neumann, and I also consider the KM140 to be the
successor of the KM84. But if you wanted to put a "new" diaphragm and
backplate assembly into a KM84, it would probalby come from current
KM184 stock. Is that likely true?

[b] Last I checked, Neumann USA doesn't attempt to repair this type of
capsule if it is damaged, except to replace or refasten a contact needle.
If anything else is seriously wrong they suggest replacement.

I've had the picture (based on what would be required) that actual
work on the transducer itself would only be performed at the factory
or by specialists who have all the tools and knowledge to build a
capsule or any part of one.

[c] As one might expect given the huge number of KM 84s that were sold,
Neumann still makes and sells replacement KK 84 capsule heads.

[d] They cost $490 each, and though I haven't checked lately, many prices
at Neumann USA have gone up since then.

Since used KM84s seem to be going for $700 and up these days, the
price for a new capsule head doesn't seem out of line. The rub is that
most of us think of a microphone as something that doesn't need
repair, so it's a bit of a shocker to have to pretty near buy a new
microphone (if such could be purchased today) when the only fix is at
the capsule. If one of my capsules went, I'd have to think really hard
about whether to get it replaced or to put the mic on the growing pile
of things that no longer work but are too valuable to throw away.

I have a C451 in that pile now, and since the problem is with the body
rather than the capsule and it will likely cost less than $100 to fix
including shipping, I really should send it off. I'll do it real soon
now. It's only been on the pile for about a year.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In most mfgr's literature, there's a note about changes they may
make along the way, like BRASS TO TEFLON. If they didn't, we'd still be
using carbon mics and ribbons.

But, as David Josephson said, there are some pretty fundamental
differences between the two putative CK12 capsules, going pretty far
beyond brass vs. teflon on the tensioning ring.

Just curious here... what exactly does using brass vs. teflon do in this
particular application? How is the sound affected?

NeilH

In Article , Luke Kaven
wrote:
(Ty Ford) wrote:

[...]
Um, GASP!! In most mfgr's literature, there's a note about changes they may
make along the way, like BRASS TO TEFLON. If they didn't, we'd still be
using carbon mics and ribbons.

But, as David Josephson said, there are some pretty fundamental
differences between the two putative CK12 capsules, going pretty far
beyond brass vs. teflon on the tensioning ring. It stretches my
notion of what constitutes "the same capsule".

Luke

Luke,

absolutely.

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In article pamNoMo writes:

Just curious here... what exactly does using brass vs. teflon do in this
particular application? How is the sound affected?

There's nothing special about that particular piece of material that
affects the sound, at least not in the same way as there would be a
difference between a brass and a teflon trumpet. This is just the most
easily distinguished appearance characteristic, so it has become the
way that some people describe the old vs. the new design of the
capsule.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

I have a 414EB. I think it's from the early '80's, as I got it used in '85.
I'd love to get someone to look at it, but I have this nagging feeling I
need to hire a bodyguard to accompany the mic. I'm in NYC. Any suggestions
would be helpful.
Thanks, Tom


"David Satz" wrote in message
om...
Mike Rivers wrote:

But so far I haven't heard stories about people sending their KM84s
in for repair and getting them back with KM184 capsules. As I
understand it (and I've never taken either far enough apart to make my
own judgement) they're quite different so considering a KM184 capsule
as a "free upgrade" to a KM84 would never be considered.

While agreeing with your larger point, I hereby compulsively nit-pick:

[a] I think that the successor to the KM 84 would be the KM 140 so far as
detachable, interchangeable capsules are concerned, but the transducer
portion of the AK 40 capsule head for the KM 140 is the same as in the
KK 84 and as in the KM 184 (it's other parts that are different);

[b] Last I checked, Neumann USA doesn't attempt to repair this type of
capsule if it is damaged, except to replace or refasten a contact needle.
If anything else is seriously wrong they suggest replacement. Perhaps
they do more over in Germany to save a capsule, but I don't know.

[c] As one might expect given the huge number of KM 84s that were sold,
Neumann still makes and sells replacement KK 84 capsule heads. I bought
two of them around this time last year, and to me they sound like the ones
I had in the mid-1970s (i.e. rather good). But:

[d] They cost $490 each, and though I haven't checked lately, many prices
at Neumann USA have gone up since then. So they're not something that
Neumann is likely to throw in on a repair job by surprise, in my opinion.

In Article . net, "Tommy B"
wrote:
I have a 414EB. I think it's from the early '80's, as I got it used in '85.
I'd love to get someone to look at it, but I have this nagging feeling I
need to hire a bodyguard to accompany the mic. I'm in NYC. Any suggestions
would be helpful.
Thanks, Tom

Something wrong with it?

Regards,

Ty Ford
**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

"Tommy B" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have a 414EB. I think it's from the early '80's, as I got it used in
'85.
I'd love to get someone to look at it, but I have this nagging feeling I
need to hire a bodyguard to accompany the mic. I'm in NYC. Any suggestions
would be helpful.


If you want someone to look at it to determine which capsule you have... you
can do that yourself... if there is something wrong with it, there are a
myriad of competent brothers who can do repair work [it just seems that they
don't work for the company formerly known as AKG... and currently known as
another dying Harmon concern]

To determine which capsule you have... first, look at the body. If the body
[where the AKG logo and pattern selector switches are] is black... then it's
a 'teflon' capsule. If the body is silver... you can sometimes tell by
shining a flashlight through the head grill and looking... or... there are 4
screws on the bottom of the mic- remove them, store them in a cup or
something so you don't lose them. There are 3 or 4 screws that hold the
head grill in place... remove those as well, put the screws in the same cup
with the other screws.

Carefully lift the head grill straight up. If the capsule looks like it has
white plastic around it... it does, that plastic is called Teflon. If the
capsule looks like it is surrounded with a brass ring... congratulations.
Now, put the head grill back on before you **** something up, put the mic
back together, and be secure in the knowledge that you know what is inside
your microphone.

Best of luck with it.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

Thanks for the response guys.
Nothing wrong with it, but is there anyway to clean dust & dirt off the
diaphragm ?
Tom

"Fletcher" wrote in message
k.net...
"Tommy B" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have a 414EB. I think it's from the early '80's, as I got it used in
'85.
I'd love to get someone to look at it, but I have this nagging feeling I
need to hire a bodyguard to accompany the mic. I'm in NYC. Any
suggestions
would be helpful.


If you want someone to look at it to determine which capsule you have...
you
can do that yourself... if there is something wrong with it, there are a
myriad of competent brothers who can do repair work [it just seems that
they
don't work for the company formerly known as AKG... and currently known as
another dying Harmon concern]

To determine which capsule you have... first, look at the body. If the
body
[where the AKG logo and pattern selector switches are] is black... then
it's
a 'teflon' capsule. If the body is silver... you can sometimes tell by
shining a flashlight through the head grill and looking... or... there are
4
screws on the bottom of the mic- remove them, store them in a cup or
something so you don't lose them. There are 3 or 4 screws that hold the
head grill in place... remove those as well, put the screws in the same
cup
with the other screws.

Carefully lift the head grill straight up. If the capsule looks like it
has
white plastic around it... it does, that plastic is called Teflon. If the
capsule looks like it is surrounded with a brass ring... congratulations.
Now, put the head grill back on before you **** something up, put the mic
back together, and be secure in the knowledge that you know what is inside
your microphone.

Best of luck with it.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

Tommy B wrote:

Nothing wrong with it, but is there anyway to clean dust & dirt off the
diaphragm ?

Yes, cleaning is possible, and should be done every few years if the
microphone has been in use. But if you try to do it yourself you'd be
taking a big risk. The wrong materials or one false move could ruin the
capsule permanently--and there are no second chances in this procedure.
I would never try to clean a capsule even though I know how it's done;
I leave that to the experts.

If you choose not to trust AKG Acoustics in Nashville, you might want
to consider Gotham Service Lab in NYC, a long-established independent
service center that has lots of experience with "vintage" condenser
microphones. Not a flashy outfit, but 100% solid in my experience.
They can be reached at (212) 967-3120.

On the other hand, it's ridiculous if AKG's service center can't be
trusted. I've had only good experiences with them, though the mikes
I've sent them haven't been such precious ones--just some C 451s,
C 414 B-ULSs and C 535s. Maybe a phone call could straighten this out,
and a promise in writing that they would check and clean the capsule
but not replace it under any circumstances? I'm just saying.

On Wed, 10 Dec 03 13:23:20 GMT, (Ty Ford) wrote:

In Article , Luke Kaven
wrote:
"Fletcher" wrote:

"Ty Ford" wrote


It's really easy to bash manufacturers in newsgroups. They don't always
deserve it.


Company man? grin

ciberratt

In article writes:

Nothing wrong with it, but is there anyway to clean dust & dirt off the
diaphragm ?

Yes, but I wouldn't learn how on a good mic. It's really delicate and
is best left to someone who has experience. Most of the mic repair
people whose names will fall into your lap shortly will do a general
cleaning and checkout for less than $100. That might seem like a lot
of money to wipe a swab across your mic's diaphragm, but it's better
than you doing it yourself, sneezing, and shoving a brush through the
membrane.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In Article , "Tommy B"
wrote:
Thanks for the response guys.
Nothing wrong with it, but is there anyway to clean dust & dirt off the
diaphragm ?
Tom

Yes, but don't try it yourself!! Can you actually see the dust and dirt?

Regards,

Ty Ford

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Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
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