[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/18/2013 10:18 PM, Mike Kaddaver wrote:
Those cylinders are sooooooo old!! They were replaced a long time ago
(for good reasons) with an improved technology.

We can still play original cylinders and phonograph records that are more
than 100 years old. Try that with a 100 year old hard drive when you get
old enough.

I'm betting many CD's will still be playable in 100 years or more! And
enough players to at least transcribe them to some new sub atomic storage
format. (assuming they haven't all been done by then)
Unfortunately I won't be around to take your money :-(

Trevor.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Trevor wrote:

I'm betting many CD's will still be playable in 100 years or more! And
enough players to at least transcribe them to some new sub atomic storage
format. (assuming they haven't all been done by then)
Unfortunately I won't be around to take your money :-(

Possibly pressed CDs, although I have a few PDO discs around here that have
gone bad and can no longer be replaced.

It's amazing, though, how many of the first generation of CD-R discs have
already failed and are no longer playable.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/20/2013 3:07 AM, Trevor wrote:

I'm betting many CD's will still be playable in 100 years or more!

Hah! Is anyone here young enough to hold that bet?

Hell, I can't even find a working DAT recorder to buy locally, though
I've found a few that don't work and their owners don't know it because
the unit hasn't been used in 10 years.

I think that in 100 years, there may be a handful of CD players
carefully preserved by collectors who want everything in their
collection to work. But archivists and institutions will have the "my
work is done" attitude and move on to migrating something newer than CDs
to current formats. .

I doubt that anyone, even today, could reverse engineer a CD player from
a disk. And given the number of 20 years old audio products that I've
tried get technical documentation for and been told "we no longer
support that and don't have schematics," I doubt that you'll be able to
look up a set of assembly instructions for CD player on the Internet and
build one from parts you can find.




--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Edi Zubovic]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:54:52 -0400, Mike Rivers
wrote:

On 4/20/2013 3:07 AM, Trevor wrote:

I'm betting many CD's will still be playable in 100 years or more!

Hah! Is anyone here young enough to hold that bet?

Hell, I can't even find a working DAT recorder to buy locally, though
I've found a few that don't work and their owners don't know it because
the unit hasn't been used in 10 years.
-------------------------------------8---------------------------------------

--Mike, I solved transfers of some 80 DAT tapes by obtaining from
Ebay, for around 100 Euros, a Sony SDT 9000 storage tape drive with
firmware ver. 12.2 which makes it an inbuilt DAT player. Also, I've
purchased a Japanese program WinDat and this combination makes a good
DAT transfer system. I've only had some problems with DATs which were
recorded from the very beginning, so there was no room for TOC data,
but even so, the transfers suceeded in linear or raw mode. There are a
few other programs but WinDat suits my needs.

Firmware ver. 12.2 supports audio, the other versions don't afaik.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[adam79[_3_]]

"PStamler" wrote in message

Oh yeah, that original Philips machine was sold in the USA under the

Norelco brand. They show up in thrift shops once in a while.


"I was totally drunk and smacked out of my head and the recorder sounded

fantastic", - yeah right ...


HA! Do you know what year they started putting the limiter into the circuit?

[William Sommerwerck]

It's amazing, though, how many of the first generation of
CD-R discs have already failed and are no longer playable.

That's not amazing when you consider they use dyes.

Several months ago there were trade reports of an upcoming recordable CD that
used a "stone-like" material that was at least 100x more stable than dyes.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
Hell, I can't even find a working DAT recorder to buy locally, though
I've found a few that don't work and their owners don't know it because
the unit hasn't been used in 10 years.

You missed the NPR auction, Mike! There were dozens of SV3700 machines in
racks with recent calibration stickers on them! Nobody wanted the things;
they were going for $50 each in some lots.

I stayed away; the Panasonic transports are great but the I/O is problematic
enough to keep me still using my Tascams.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
It's amazing, though, how many of the first generation of
CD-R discs have already failed and are no longer playable.

That's not amazing when you consider they use dyes.

Yeah, but it's only been twenty years now! Even Kodacolor II dyes lasted longer
than that.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/20/2013 10:26 AM, Edi Zubovic wrote:

--Mike, I solved transfers of some 80 DAT tapes by obtaining from
Ebay, for around 100 Euros, a Sony SDT 9000 storage tape drive with
firmware ver. 12.2 which makes it an inbuilt DAT player.

Believe it or not, I'm not primarily interested in transfers since my
DAT recordings are things that I listen to rarely, but occasionally want
to listen to. I want something on which to PLAY them. I'll take my
chances with the longevity of the tape, I just want a working player. It
seems that this is the bigger problem.

Those DAT drives with the firmware that can play audio DATs were a bit
of a rumor back in the DAT heyday. The only source I can recall was from
Sun, and they were very expensive. And it's still a transport, which is
the primary failure part of a DAT recorder.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/20/2013 12:34 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

You missed the NPR auction, Mike! There were dozens of SV3700 machines in
racks with recent calibration stickers on them! Nobody wanted the things;
they were going for $50 each in some lots.

No, I saw the auction list, but with more than 50 DATs to choose from, I
just didn't want to pick one and bid on it. I'd rather pay $100 to
someone who can assure me that one works. And I don't really want to
start learning how to repair DATs.

I stayed away; the Panasonic transports are great but the I/O is problematic
enough to keep me still using my Tascams.

There were a lot of Sony and TASCAM DATs om that auction as well as the
Panasonics.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Trevor wrote:
"Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message
valid.invalid...
Strange how I can hear the words and a tune on these old recordings, but
I rarely hear them on modern ones. If you want to hear pleasant music
made by skilled performers and recorded by engineeers who HAD to know
what they were doing, it seems you have to go back to the older
technologies.

What utter rubbish, those older engineers and older artists you *prefer*
could do just as well with modern technology, *IF* you could get a time
machine to transport them from their heyday into the present. Only the truly
stupid blame modern technolgy for the failings of those who use it.

I have often lamented that while synthesizers are *so* much better now than
they were in the 70's, we still don't have any synth music to beat Pink
Floyd, Rick Wakeman, Jean Michel Jarre etc in their heyday. But at least I
realise that is simply *my* preferences, and *NOT* a limitation of the
current technology!

Trevor.



I blame the DX7. It was the last big synth to be used
in anger before ROMplers.

So listen to modern R&B. One of the mechanics at work has it on his
phone into a boom box. It's all synths.

Doesn't sound much like Yes, but them's breaks. The musicianship is
impeccable.

--
Les Cargill

[Art Cohen[_2_]]

In article ,
says...

"Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message
valid.invalid...
Strange how I can hear the words and a tune on these old recordings, but
I rarely hear them on modern ones. If you want to hear pleasant music
made by skilled performers and recorded by engineeers who HAD to know
what they were doing, it seems you have to go back to the older
technologies.

What utter rubbish, those older engineers and older artists you *prefer*
could do just as well with modern technology, *IF* you could get a time
machine to transport them from their heyday into the present. Only the truly
stupid blame modern technolgy for the failings of those who use it.

I have often lamented that while synthesizers are *so* much better now than
they were in the 70's, we still don't have any synth music to beat Pink
Floyd, Rick Wakeman, Jean Michel Jarre etc in their heyday. But at least I
realise that is simply *my* preferences, and *NOT* a limitation of the
current technology!

Trevor.

Or listen to Ian Boddy, Robert Rich or Chuck van Zyl to
name just three current artists who use synths
masterfully and whose work measures up against that of
any era. Admittedly all three use analog synths along
side of the latest digital instruments.

Art Cohen

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
On 4/20/2013 12:34 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
You missed the NPR auction, Mike! There were dozens of SV3700 machines in
racks with recent calibration stickers on them! Nobody wanted the things;
they were going for $50 each in some lots.

No, I saw the auction list, but with more than 50 DATs to choose from, I
just didn't want to pick one and bid on it. I'd rather pay $100 to
someone who can assure me that one works. And I don't really want to
start learning how to repair DATs.

I think if the cal sticker on the thing is within the last year, it's a
fair bet the machine is good. Some of them had options and accessories
and most of that was not documented either.

I stayed away; the Panasonic transports are great but the I/O is problematic
enough to keep me still using my Tascams.

There were a lot of Sony and TASCAM DATs om that auction as well as the
Panasonics.

Yes, and I bought some, but they weren't anywhere near as sure bets because
they didn't have recent cal stickers on them. Some of the Tascams had remotes
and I bought them just for the remotes.

I only saw one SV4100, though, and it was part of a much larger lot that I
wasn't willing to bid on. The SV4100 is about the only Panasonic I'd take.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

geoff wrote:

"Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message
valid.invalid...

Strange how I can hear the words and a tune on these old recordings, but
I rarely hear them on modern ones.

Well that's not the technology itself - it's the people driving it.

Yes, but the easier the technology becomes to use, the more it is driven
by lazy people who don't learn how to use it properly. It has never
been easier to make good quality recordings with reasonably-priced
equipment but I have never before heard so many really bad recordings
passed-off as adequate.

This is not a plea for equipment that is difficult to use, but I would
like to see some movement to counteract the idea that if you just buy
an "XYZ" and switch it on, you will get perfect professional results.
Many of the people who come to this group for advice seem to have that
idea as their starting premise. They then have to be disillusioned -
some seem unable to comprehend what they are being told and a few react
quite badly.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Trevor]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor
wrote:
I'm betting many CD's will still be playable in 100 years or more! And
enough players to at least transcribe them to some new sub atomic storage
format. (assuming they haven't all been done by then)
Unfortunately I won't be around to take your money :-(

Possibly pressed CDs, although I have a few PDO discs around here that
have
gone bad and can no longer be replaced.

Yes, I said CD's *not* CDR's, and I said many (probably most), not all. Some
of those unplayable disks can be resurrected however if their value is
sufficient to warrant having the aluminium layer removed and redeposited.
The actual pits in a stamped polycarbonate disk are pretty secure, probably
for millenia with a small amount of care!


It's amazing, though, how many of the first generation of CD-R discs have
already failed and are no longer playable.

Right, that technology is far from archival. DVD-R is just as bad.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/20/2013 3:07 AM, Trevor wrote:
I'm betting many CD's will still be playable in 100 years or more!

Hah! Is anyone here young enough to hold that bet?

Hell, I can't even find a working DAT recorder to buy locally, though
I've found a few that don't work and their owners don't know it because
the unit hasn't been used in 10 years.

Prett lousy straw man, is that the best you could do? There are BILLIONS of
CD's in peoples collections, and I am happy to bet there will be a market
for at least one company to build a player, as long as there is any demand.
Hell there are dozens of turntables still being made to play old vinyl,
despite the market for new vinyl being almost non existant.


I think that in 100 years, there may be a handful of CD players carefully
preserved by collectors who want everything in their collection to work.
But archivists and institutions will have the "my work is done" attitude
and move on to migrating something newer than CDs to current formats. .

And it probably will have been. I toally agree that even when all CD's ever
made are available on another format, some people will still want to play
their old CD's because they like the process, just as some people claim to
like the timeconsuming process involved in playing vinyl, regardless that it
can be faithfully copied to digital format, complete with ticks, pops,
noise, distortion, wow, flutter, and anything else thet seem to prefer to
the actual music.


I doubt that anyone, even today, could reverse engineer a CD player from a
disk.

Agreed, but failing a nuclear holocost, why would they have to? And if there
is a nuclear holocost, my CD collection is probably fairly low on my
priority list.


And given the number of 20 years old audio products that I've tried get
technical documentation for and been told "we no longer support that and
don't have schematics," I doubt that you'll be able to look up a set of
assembly instructions for CD player on the Internet and build one from
parts you can find.

But any decent engineer with the coding system details could design one from
scratch, just as many have done in the past.
It may be easier, but I wonder how many people are building Edison cylinder
players from scratch these days anyway? I bet they are all using old players
too.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Art Cohen" wrote in message
...
I have often lamented that while synthesizers are *so* much better now
than
they were in the 70's, we still don't have any synth music to beat Pink
Floyd, Rick Wakeman, Jean Michel Jarre etc in their heyday. But at least
I
realise that is simply *my* preferences, and *NOT* a limitation of the
current technology!

Or listen to Ian Boddy, Robert Rich or Chuck van Zyl to
name just three current artists who use synths
masterfully and whose work measures up against that of
any era. Admittedly all three use analog synths along
side of the latest digital instruments.

Thanks for the tip, I'll seek them out.

Trevor.

[Marc Wielage[_2_]]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 16:01:51 -0700, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ):

No one mortal man can take all the drugs Keith Richards did and survive.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

A little off-topic: I was amused by Richards' autobiography a year or two ago
where he admitted that one of the main reasons he believes he's still alive
is that he got very very _high quality_ drugs throughout his addictions:
pure, pharmaceutical-grade Merck cocaine, stuff like that. Very little
"street" drugs, since he was at the top of the food chain in terms of fame,
money, and access.

--MFW

[[email protected]]

geoff: "

Well that's not the technology itself - it's the people driving it.

geoff"

Yeah, and nowadays they're driving it into a BRICKWALL - literally!

24-96 can jump into a lake if all the idiots using it are justo going to keep turning out DR6 dial tones. smdh...

[Paul[_13_]]

On 4/20/2013 11:44 PM, Marc Wielage wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 16:01:51 -0700, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ):

No one mortal man can take all the drugs Keith Richards did and survive.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

A little off-topic: I was amused by Richards' autobiography a year or two ago
where he admitted that one of the main reasons he believes he's still alive
is that he got very very _high quality_ drugs throughout his addictions:
pure, pharmaceutical-grade Merck cocaine, stuff like that. Very little
"street" drugs, since he was at the top of the food chain in terms of fame,
money, and access.


Probably true, as the potency of the drugs was likely more
consistent, and therefore lessening the chance of overdosing.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/21/2013 2:35 AM, Trevor wrote:

There are BILLIONS of
CD's in peoples collections, and I am happy to bet there will be a market
for at least one company to build a player, as long as there is any demand.

First off, nobody makes a CD player now. You can buy a DVD player that
will play CDs.

Second, with so many people with your attitude toward "older technology"
there will not be sufficient demand for any commercial manufacturer to
build CD players (or any kind of hard media players) in the future. When
the media fades from the commercial market, the players will, too.

On the other hand, phonograph turntables never really died out, but that
was because phonograph records seem to have more tangible value than
CDs. And turntablists need them as their working tools. Now LPs seem to
be coming back, though pretty much in a specialty market. You can buy
$25,000 turntables, you can buy $400 turntables, and you can buy $60
turntables with a built-in USB interface intended for the purpose of
transferring your LPs to digital form.

And it probably will have been. I toally agree that even when all CD's ever
made are available on another format, some people will still want to play
their old CD's because they like the process, just as some people claim to
like the timeconsuming process involved in playing vinyl

With me, it's not so much a matter that I enjoy the process of playing a
CD or phonograph record, it's that I don't enjoy the process of
transferring it to hard disk (or whatever) and then playing it from that
medium. I have CD players and turntables in places where I go to listen
to music for the music's sake. I don't have computers there, at least
not ones from which I can enjoy listening to music. The closest I come
to that is a cable (analog) going from my office to the receiver in the
living room so I can listen to Internet radio while I'm reading the
newspaper or eating dinner. If my entire music collection was on a hard
drive, I'd need to figure out how to distribute it to where I wanted to
listen to it.

My records, CDs, and tapes are my collection. What's on the Internet or
stored on a hard drive is just temporary, for convenience of time
shifting for a listen or two before deleting the files.

But any decent engineer with the coding system details could design one from
scratch, just as many have done in the past.

Really? Can you give me an example? Given the number of different
technologies involved in making a CD player, I really doubt that any
single engineer or technician could make one. And what makes you so sure
that the "coding system details" will survive 100 years of obsolescence?

It may be easier, but I wonder how many people are building Edison cylinder
players from scratch these days anyway?

I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days, I suspect that anyone who
really wanted to play a cylinder would either have to find someone with
the capability or build a player himself. Now this is something that I
believe a competent machinist could build. For one thing, you can figure
out, by looking at it, exactly how to play a cylinder, or a phonograph
record, for that matter. It will take some adjustment to get it to sound
right (you might know the speed, for example) but the principle is simple.

Magnetic tape is an interesting prospect, however. You can't look at it
and tell for sure what it is unless, perhaps, the box has been
preserved. And even if you can figure out enough to recover an
alternating voltage from it (which isn't difficult) you don't know if
it's a symphony or somebody's income tax return.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[William Sommerwerck]

First off, nobody makes a CD[-only] player now.
You can buy a DVD player that will play CDs.

Nobody? Plenty of CD players are available, mostly changers/jukeboxes and
audiophile products. Ditto for SACD players.

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 4/21/2013 2:35 AM, Trevor wrote:
[...]
It may be easier, but I wonder how many people are building Edison cylinder
players from scratch these days anyway?

At least 50

http://www.christerhamp.se/phono/


I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days,

http://www.archeophone.org/warcheoph...ifications.php

You can also pick up secondhand Edison originals quite easily and I can
hire you an archival-quality player.



--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/21/2013 12:28 PM, Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Mike wrote:
I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days,

http://www.archeophone.org/warcheoph...ifications.php

Oh, c'mon, Adrian, you're spoiling my fun. But really,
off-the-shelf? I was thinking along the lines of one that you could get
at Best Buy or places where you'd buy a DVD player.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 4/21/2013 12:28 PM, Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Mike wrote:
I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days,

http://www.archeophone.org/warcheoph...ifications.php

Oh, c'mon, Adrian, you're spoiling my fun. But really,
off-the-shelf? I was thinking along the lines of one that you could get
at Best Buy or places where you'd buy a DVD player.

Give it time!

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic

[Adrian Tuddenham[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 4/21/2013 12:28 PM, Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Mike wrote:
I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days,

http://www.archeophone.org/warcheoph...ifications.php

Oh, c'mon, Adrian, you're spoiling my fun.

As soon as you had written it you must have realised that somebody would
try to challenge you. :-)

But really,
off-the-shelf? I was thinking along the lines of one that you could get
at Best Buy or places where you'd buy a DVD player.

I must admit that I have experienced some sales resistance to my
attempts to sell pre-recorded cylnders because of this. Awkward people
keep asking where they would buy something to play them on.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:28 PM, Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Mike wrote:
I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days,

http://www.archeophone.org/warcheoph...ifications.php

Oh, c'mon, Adrian, you're spoiling my fun. But really,
off-the-shelf? I was thinking along the lines of one that you could get
at Best Buy or places where you'd buy a DVD player.

You can't even buy a reliable DVD player at those places....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

But really,
off-the-shelf? I was thinking along the lines of one that you could get
at Best Buy or places where you'd buy a DVD player.

I must admit that I have experienced some sales resistance to my
attempts to sell pre-recorded cylnders because of this. Awkward people
keep asking where they would buy something to play them on.

You need to take a cue from the razor blade people and offer a free player
with a certain number of cylinders.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

wrote in message
...
geoff: "

Well that's not the technology itself - it's the people driving it.

geoff"

Yeah, and nowadays they're driving it into a BRICKWALL - literally!

24-96 can jump into a lake if all the idiots using it are justo going to
keep turning out DR6 dial tones. smdh...

ALl ? Who said anything about all ?

geoff

[[email protected]]

geoff:

Well, 80%!

Slamming 0dBfs seems to be the engineering gospel nowadays.

[None]

whineylittlegirl @ kboywhines.ass wrote in message
...
geoff:

Well, 80%!

Slamming 0dBfs seems to be the engineering gospel nowadays.

No, not at all. You should listen to better material. Or maybe
you just listen to crap so you can whine. No wonder nobody
wants to hear your bitching in real life, which is apparently
why you **** and moan on Usenet. It's probably the only
place left for you to rant where people can't just make you
**** off.

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/21/2013 2:35 AM, Trevor wrote:

There are BILLIONS of
CD's in peoples collections, and I am happy to bet there will be a market
for at least one company to build a player, as long as there is any
demand.

First off, nobody makes a CD player now.

Rubbish, you haven't looked too hard have you!


You can buy a DVD player that will play CDs.

Which is all most people want, rather than pay a high price for a real CD
player. Of course most people simply play, or copy, CD's using their
computer now anyway.


Second, with so many people with your attitude toward "older technology"
there will not be sufficient demand for any commercial manufacturer to
build CD players (or any kind of hard media players) in the future. When
the media fades from the commercial market, the players will, too.

A claim you can make all you like since a means of playing CD's will be
still available long after you (and me) are dead.


On the other hand, phonograph turntables never really died out, but that
was because phonograph records seem to have more tangible value than CDs.
And turntablists need them as their working tools. Now LPs seem to be
coming back, though pretty much in a specialty market. You can buy $25,000
turntables, you can buy $400 turntables, and you can buy $60 turntables
with a built-in USB interface intended for the purpose of transferring
your LPs to digital form.

Exactly, and you can buy a dozen different methods of playing CD's from a
thousand different manufacturers. Hardly proves your point.


And it probably will have been. I toally agree that even when all CD's
ever
made are available on another format, some people will still want to play
their old CD's because they like the process, just as some people claim
to
like the timeconsuming process involved in playing vinyl

With me, it's not so much a matter that I enjoy the process of playing a
CD or phonograph record, it's that I don't enjoy the process of
transferring it to hard disk (or whatever) and then playing it from that
medium.

That's your problem, I far prefer playing from a media player myself.

I have CD players and turntables in places where I go to listen to music
for the music's sake. I don't have computers there, at least not ones from
which I can enjoy listening to music. The closest I come to that is a cable
(analog) going from my office to the receiver in the living room so I can
listen to Internet radio while I'm reading the newspaper or eating dinner.
If my entire music collection was on a hard drive, I'd need to figure out
how to distribute it to where I wanted to listen to it.

Most people do that simply using an iPod equivalent that can be pugged in
almost anywhere.


My records, CDs, and tapes are my collection. What's on the Internet or
stored on a hard drive is just temporary, for convenience of time shifting
for a listen or two before deleting the files.

My collection is on both CD and multiple hard drives/media players. Like my
vinyl collection, the CD's themselves are never played any more. Not sure if
my CD player even works now, the drawer was a little sticky years ago, no
big deal now :-)


But any decent engineer with the coding system details could design one
from
scratch, just as many have done in the past.

Really? Can you give me an example? Given the number of different
technologies involved in making a CD player, I really doubt that any
single engineer or technician could make one. And what makes you so sure
that the "coding system details" will survive 100 years of obsolescence?

Only *you* are claiming 100 years of obsolesence when they are still selling
in the hundreds of millions every year!
And have you heard about this great new thing we have now called the
internet where information is stored on millions of servers around the
world?


It may be easier, but I wonder how many people are building Edison
cylinder
players from scratch these days anyway?

I have no idea, but since, as far as I know, you can't buy a new
off-the-shelf cylinder player these days, I suspect that anyone who really
wanted to play a cylinder would either have to find someone with the
capability or build a player himself. Now this is something that I believe
a competent machinist could build.

Of course, the question is whether anyone would bother. I doubt it.


For one thing, you can figure out, by looking at it, exactly how to play a
cylinder, or a phonograph record, for that matter. It will take some
adjustment to get it to sound right (you might know the speed, for example)
but the principle is simple.

Magnetic tape is an interesting prospect, however. You can't look at it
and tell for sure what it is unless, perhaps, the box has been preserved.
And even if you can figure out enough to recover an alternating voltage
from it (which isn't difficult) you don't know if it's a symphony or
somebody's income tax return.

And if they don't have a deck to hand to play it, it usually goes in the bin
anyway.

Trevor.

[hank alrich]

Trevor wrote:

That's your problem,

Pretty much sums up your attitude. Mike prefers something else, and it's
a "problem". You must have a lot of those.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic

[geoff]

wrote in message
...
geoff:

Well, 80%!

Slamming 0dBfs seems to be the engineering gospel nowadays.

Well the gospel fairy-story is OK cos they've got divine protection. Safe to
go to +12dBFS.

geoff

[Trevor]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Pretty much sums up your attitude. Mike prefers something else, and it's
a "problem".

I have no issue with *whatever* he prefers, simply his attitude that he is
entitled to voice his preference, but no one else is entitled to a different
one.
Nor do I think much of your snide/pointless remarks for that matter. But
hey, if that's how you get your jollies, don't let me stop you, sure don't
bother me.

Trevor.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 4/22/2013 1:31 AM, Trevor wrote:

Not sure if
my CD player even works now, the drawer was a little sticky years ago, no
big deal now :-)

See! Pretty soon they'll all be like yours.

You're just talking about YOU. I'm talking about the far future.

And have you heard about this great new thing we have now called the
internet where information is stored on millions of servers around the
world?

There's SO MUCH that I can't find on the Internet. Well, maybe I can
find someone selling a CD or a book that I want.




--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[John Williamson]

Trevor wrote:

Only *you* are claiming 100 years of obsolesence when they are still selling
in the hundreds of millions every year!
And have you heard about this great new thing we have now called the
internet where information is stored on millions of servers around the
world?

Information may be stored on millions of servers worldwide as a general
concept. Unfortunately, a *lot* of those files are only stored on one or
two servers and their backups. Potentially, all it takes is a slip of
the finger to lose that information for ever.

This particularly applies to music by relatively unknown bands.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Steve King]

Trevor wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Pretty much sums up your attitude. Mike prefers something else, and
it's a "problem".

I have no issue with *whatever* he prefers, simply his attitude that
he is entitled to voice his preference, but no one else is entitled
to a different one.
Nor do I think much of your snide/pointless remarks for that matter.
But hey, if that's how you get your jollies, don't let me stop you,
sure don't bother me.

Trevor.

Your preference always seems to be attached to why someone else is stupid.
That's why we anxiously await your posts;-)

Steve King

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Trevor wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 4/21/2013 2:35 AM, Trevor wrote:

There are BILLIONS of
CD's in peoples collections, and I am happy to bet there will be a market
for at least one company to build a player, as long as there is any
demand.

First off, nobody makes a CD player now.

Rubbish, you haven't looked too hard have you!

Actually... this brings up a question! I would like a standalone CD player
that isn't crap and has a conventional tray (unlike the Sony rackmount player
which sucks the disc in like a car transport).

Must be rackmount or rackable. What's in the shipping rack right now is a
first generation Magnavox (the 14-bit 4x oversampling stuff) and while it's
fine, it's been in regular use for a long time now.

Wired remote would be nice, but not essential.

Any suggestions? Please, no Gemini or Numark crap.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[adam79[_3_]]

Is it the Norelco Carry-Corder 150? I did some research; it was released in 1964.