[MOSFET]

First off, I've never posted here, or been here, before so let me start by
saying "HI" to everyone!!!

I have an old Technics SL-B2 turntable that is in perfect shape and works
perfectly as well. I have had it for many, many years. However, it has
been relagated to a box that is kept in my attic or garage for the last 25
years. I still have my record collection going back to 1978 when I
purchased my first LP, and I accumulated records at a pretty good clip
(perhaps 2 a week) until, I would say, 1988, when EVERYTHING was switched to
CD's. Even the EP's that were the last hold-out of recordings not found on
CD, but only on vinyl, really disappeared by 1992. By '91-'93, except for
an extremelly small niche market of audiophiles (who to THIS DAY will claim
that LP's still sound better than CD's given very HIGH quality recordings,
EXPERT mastering techniques, and EXCEPTIONAL equipment used in playback).

Also, besides Audiophiles, DJ's continue to this day to use vinyl in clubs
as
mxing one song to the next is MUCH easier than with CD's (though advances in
DJ oriented CD mixing gear with controls like BPM synchrnozation has leveled
the playing field to a large degree). However, besides those two groups,
NOBODY BUYS vinyl
anymore.

Anyway, I have about 400-500 LP's I was flipping through the other day and
felt nostalgic and wanted to hear some of this old stuff. However, my
turntable is just missing a headshell and cartride (stylus too, of course).
I gave it to someone (the headshell and cartride) about 10 years ago as I
thought I would NEVER want to use the turntable again and he needed one, I
nearly threw my turntable out after that (well, I was going to give it to
the Salvation Army, same diff.)!!!!!

I have already ordered the headshell and it should be here tommorrow or the
next day.

My question is about what would give me the best bang for my buck in terms
of cartridges (with stylus, of course). I definately want to buy new as you
NEVER know how many hours a used needle may have seen. I am NOT an
audiophile NUT when it comes to my home gear (OK, a little bit) and my
turntable is certainly not one you would consider "high-end". But it's
built like a tank (surprisingly heavy) and after literally decades of
collecting dust it fired right up, by using the strobe adjustment I dialed
in the PERFECT 33 1/3 and it never wavered (wow and flutter) at all.

I have no doubt it's as good (SQ wise) as any other Technics turntable (I
know, I know, DJ's all prefer the 1200 series with direct drive, mine's belt
driven, as the 1200's can go from 0-60 MPH in like .02 seconds or some damn
thing like that which is advantages to DJ's). But again, sound quality
wise, they all SOUND the same
(given the same cartride) and it becomes more a factor of, again, your
cartridege and stylus selection as Technics does not employ more esoteric
turntable construction techniques (like thick glass platters, drive-motors
COMPLETELY seperated from the spinning table itself, only joined by the belt
in an
attempt to COMPLETELY erradicate any motor noise that might creep in, and
EVEN MORE essoteric and complicated means of isolating ANY vibrations in the
environment or the surface the turntable is placed upon. These esoteric
turntables might empoly (to name only a few) double decker affairs where the
first part of the table is simply a vibrations absorber; different materials
employed in constructing some tables such as carbon fiber, fiberglass, REAL
glass, and so on and so on......).

Anyway, back to my original question. Do any of you out there have a
favorite cartridge maker and if so why? I don't want to spend a ridiculous
amount of money, I just want my records to sound decent as I plan to
transpose them
to MP3. I used to buy only Audio Technica cartridges as a kid as I thought
they made a very good product at a reasonable price. Is that still the
case? Are there others to consider? Like I said, I am DEINATELY looking
for a NEW cartridge and stylus (I do a lot of shopping on Ebay), but I am
not going to spend $500 on a Grado
flagship model. It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Thank you in advance for any advice in this matter!!!!

MOSFET

[Sonnova]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote
(in article ):

First off, I've never posted here, or been here, before so let me start by
saying "HI" to everyone!!!

I have an old Technics SL-B2 turntable that is in perfect shape and works
perfectly as well. I have had it for many, many years. However, it has
been relagated to a box that is kept in my attic or garage for the last 25
years. I still have my record collection going back to 1978 when I
purchased my first LP, and I accumulated records at a pretty good clip
(perhaps 2 a week) until, I would say, 1988, when EVERYTHING was switched to
CD's. Even the EP's that were the last hold-out of recordings not found on
CD, but only on vinyl, really disappeared by 1992. By '91-'93, except for
an extremelly small niche market of audiophiles (who to THIS DAY will claim
that LP's still sound better than CD's given very HIGH quality recordings,
EXPERT mastering techniques, and EXCEPTIONAL equipment used in playback).

Well, obviously LPs do sound better than CDs TO THEM. I hear more live music
than most people and I have LPs that definitely sound better than the CD of
the same performance. So, in some instances those who think LPs sound more
like real music than do CDs are correct.

Also, besides Audiophiles, DJ's continue to this day to use vinyl in clubs
as
mxing one song to the next is MUCH easier than with CD's (though advances in
DJ oriented CD mixing gear with controls like BPM synchrnozation has leveled
the playing field to a large degree). However, besides those two groups,
NOBODY BUYS vinyl
anymore.

Anyway, I have about 400-500 LP's I was flipping through the other day and
felt nostalgic and wanted to hear some of this old stuff. However, my
turntable is just missing a headshell and cartride (stylus too, of course).
I gave it to someone (the headshell and cartride) about 10 years ago as I
thought I would NEVER want to use the turntable again and he needed one, I
nearly threw my turntable out after that (well, I was going to give it to
the Salvation Army, same diff.)!!!!!

I have already ordered the headshell and it should be here tommorrow or the
next day.

My question is about what would give me the best bang for my buck in terms
of cartridges (with stylus, of course). I definately want to buy new as you
NEVER know how many hours a used needle may have seen. I am NOT an
audiophile NUT when it comes to my home gear (OK, a little bit) and my
turntable is certainly not one you would consider "high-end". But it's
built like a tank (surprisingly heavy) and after literally decades of
collecting dust it fired right up, by using the strobe adjustment I dialed
in the PERFECT 33 1/3 and it never wavered (wow and flutter) at all.

I suggest the Sumiko Blue-Point No. 2. It tracks beautifully, sounds great
and only costs about $300. It is also a high-output moving coil and does not
require a head-amp or a transformer. You can order one from Needle Doctor.

I have no doubt it's as good (SQ wise) as any other Technics turntable (I
know, I know, DJ's all prefer the 1200 series with direct drive, mine's belt
driven, as the 1200's can go from 0-60 MPH in like .02 seconds or some damn
thing like that which is advantages to DJ's). But again, sound quality
wise, they all SOUND the same
(given the same cartride) and it becomes more a factor of, again, your
cartridege and stylus selection as Technics does not employ more esoteric
turntable construction techniques (like thick glass platters, drive-motors
COMPLETELY seperated from the spinning table itself, only joined by the belt
in an
attempt to COMPLETELY erradicate any motor noise that might creep in, and
EVEN MORE essoteric and complicated means of isolating ANY vibrations in the
environment or the surface the turntable is placed upon. These esoteric
turntables might empoly (to name only a few) double decker affairs where the
first part of the table is simply a vibrations absorber; different materials
employed in constructing some tables such as carbon fiber, fiberglass, REAL
glass, and so on and so on......).

Actually, your Technics table is not very good. The platter rings, the
bearing is relatively poor and the arm is both resonant and poorly designed.
You'd be better off with a new Pro-Ject Debut III, a Rega P1, or a Music Hall
MMF-2.2. But if you get a decent cartridge first, you can start enjoying your
records now, and when you can afford it, you can upgrade your turntable. Then
you will be better able to appreciate the improvement that even a modest
modern turntable will bring to your listening.

Anyway, back to my original question. Do any of you out there have a
favorite cartridge maker and if so why? I don't want to spend a ridiculous
amount of money, I just want my records to sound decent as I plan to
transpose them
to MP3. I used to buy only Audio Technica cartridges as a kid as I thought
they made a very good product at a reasonable price. Is that still the
case? Are there others to consider? Like I said, I am DEINATELY looking
for a NEW cartridge and stylus (I do a lot of shopping on Ebay), but I am
not going to spend $500 on a Grado
flagship model. It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Thank you in advance for any advice in this matter!!!!

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

Well, obviously LPs do sound better than CDs TO THEM. I hear more live
music
than most people and I have LPs that definitely sound better than the CD
of
the same performance. So, in some instances those who think LPs sound more
like real music than do CDs are correct.

Well, actually that's part of the reason I want to resurrect my turntable.
Like I said, I know it's not what you would consider a super-high-end
machine, but I have always been impressed with how solidly it is built
(compared with other turntables I may come across at second-hand stores or
people's homes who still have turntables). I mean, every component
(tone-arm, controls, platter) are built incredibly solidly and NOTHING on
that entire machine is even slightly "loose". I have a friend who believes
very strongly in the superiority of vinyl over CD's and it is he who
convinced me to resurrect mine. I have to admitt, listening to his system
certainly made me think there's something to that. AND, he and I both felt
the SL-B2 was certainly worthy of getting the most out of my LP's.

And although it's true, you get what you pay for, the rest of my system is
really just OK; a Denon AVR-3600, Michael Green Designs speakers, Discovery
speaker and Interconnect wires, however, it really does not warrent a
ridculously expensive cartride as I would probably not hear the subtle
differences given my turntable and the rest of my system. I will be happy
if I find it is the equall of my CD's. And as I recall, I always thought
that CD's did not sound any better than my vinyl. It was more a matter of
convience and being able to play them in my car that drove my to make the
switch, not really that I felt CD's were any better sounding.




Also, besides Audiophiles, DJ's continue to this day to use vinyl in
clubs
as
mxing one song to the next is MUCH easier than with CD's (though
advances in
DJ oriented CD mixing gear with controls like BPM synchrnozation has
leveled
the playing field to a large degree). However, besides those two
groups,
NOBODY BUYS vinyl
anymore.

Anyway, I have about 400-500 LP's I was flipping through the other day
and
felt nostalgic and wanted to hear some of this old stuff. However, my
turntable is just missing a headshell and cartride (stylus too, of
course).
I gave it to someone (the headshell and cartride) about 10 years ago as
I
thought I would NEVER want to use the turntable again and he needed one,
I
nearly threw my turntable out after that (well, I was going to give it
to
the Salvation Army, same diff.)!!!!!

I have already ordered the headshell and it should be here tommorrow or
the
next day.

My question is about what would give me the best bang for my buck in
terms
of cartridges (with stylus, of course). I definately want to buy new as
you
NEVER know how many hours a used needle may have seen. I am NOT an
audiophile NUT when it comes to my home gear (OK, a little bit) and my
turntable is certainly not one you would consider "high-end". But it's
built like a tank (surprisingly heavy) and after literally decades of
collecting dust it fired right up, by using the strobe adjustment I
dialed
in the PERFECT 33 1/3 and it never wavered (wow and flutter) at all.

I suggest the Sumiko Blue-Point No. 2. It tracks beautifully, sounds great
and only costs about $300. It is also a high-output moving coil and does
not
require a head-amp or a transformer. You can order one from Needle
Doctor.

I am familiar with Sumiko and the Blue-Point. I have no doubt it would make
an outstanding cartridge for my application. It's just a little on the
pricy side for something my wife feels is not exactly a necessay expense.I
really need to keep it under $100.




I have no doubt it's as good (SQ wise) as any other Technics turntable
(I
know, I know, DJ's all prefer the 1200 series with direct drive, mine's
belt
driven, as the 1200's can go from 0-60 MPH in like .02 seconds or some
damn
thing like that which is advantages to DJ's). But again, sound quality
wise, they all SOUND the same
(given the same cartride) and it becomes more a factor of, again, your
cartridege and stylus selection as Technics does not employ more
esoteric
turntable construction techniques (like thick glass platters,
drive-motors
COMPLETELY seperated from the spinning table itself, only joined by the
belt
in an
attempt to COMPLETELY erradicate any motor noise that might creep in,
and
EVEN MORE essoteric and complicated means of isolating ANY vibrations in
the
environment or the surface the turntable is placed upon. These esoteric
turntables might empoly (to name only a few) double decker affairs where
the
first part of the table is simply a vibrations absorber; different
materials
employed in constructing some tables such as carbon fiber, fiberglass,
REAL
glass, and so on and so on......).

Actually, your Technics table is not very good. The platter rings, the
bearing is relatively poor and the arm is both resonant and poorly
designed.
You'd be better off with a new Pro-Ject Debut III, a Rega P1, or a Music
Hall
MMF-2.2. But if you get a decent cartridge first, you can start enjoying
your
records now, and when you can afford it, you can upgrade your turntable.
Then
you will be better able to appreciate the improvement that even a modest
modern turntable will bring to your listening.

I know there have been some big improvements in turntables in the last few
years. Although many "appear" similar to their older brethren, I know that
the technolgy employed in modern high-end turntables has advanced greatly.


Thank you for all your great advice!!!!!

MOSFET

[bob]

On Jun 21, 10:50*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:

I know there have been some big improvements in turntables in the last few
years. *Although many "appear" similar to their older brethren, I know that
the technolgy employed in modern high-end turntables has advanced greatly.

Yes, they've added USB ports.

Anything else?

bob

[Arny Krueger]

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote

It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Sure there is - the Shure M97Xe.

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:51:05 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote

It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Sure there is - the Shure M97Xe.



Yeccchhh! If you think those are decent, then I begin to understand your bias
against vinyl records. If I listened to records with a cartridge like that,
I'd probably hate records too.

[Arny Krueger]

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:51:05 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote

It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Sure there is - the Shure M97Xe.



Yeccchhh! If you think those are decent, then I begin to understand your
bias
against vinyl records. If I listened to records with a cartridge like
that,
I'd probably hate records too.

Sue me for not being prejudiced against hhigh performance equipment just
because it lacks a 3 or 4 digit price tag. I''ve heard many high end
cartridges that people worship, and very much of what they idolize
disappears in a blind test.

[Harry Lavo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:51:05 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote

It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Sure there is - the Shure M97Xe.



Yeccchhh! If you think those are decent, then I begin to understand your
bias
against vinyl records. If I listened to records with a cartridge like
that,
I'd probably hate records too.

Sue me for not being prejudiced against hhigh performance equipment just
because it lacks a 3 or 4 digit price tag. I''ve heard many high end
cartridges that people worship, and very much of what they idolize
disappears in a blind test.


I think Sonnova's reaction is a bit of overkill..for $100 it is okay, bu IMO
it is outperformed in it's own price range by the AT-440, which is enough
better that I would (and did) make it my recommendation instead. The Shure
for one thing is inferior in imaging to cartridges most would consider
high-end. If you have never heard a cartridge that sounds substantially
better than the 97xE you just haven't listened to enough...or the
right...cartridges. And while their may be a correlation with price, that
is not the only factor, and better sound doesn't require a
mega-thousand-dollar cartridge. A Blue Point Special (at $400) and to a
much greater degree a Dynavector Ruby (at $800) or Shelter 501 II (at $900)
will wipe the Shure (and its more expensive siblings). That is, if
reproducing a facsimile of live acoustic instruments and voice is your
standard and you use well-recorded records of same as your souce.

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:13:12 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:51:05 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote

It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Sure there is - the Shure M97Xe.



Yeccchhh! If you think those are decent, then I begin to understand your
bias
against vinyl records. If I listened to records with a cartridge like
that,
I'd probably hate records too.

Sue me for not being prejudiced against hhigh performance equipment just
because it lacks a 3 or 4 digit price tag. I''ve heard many high end
cartridges that people worship, and very much of what they idolize
disappears in a blind test.



Have it your own way, but an M97Xe isn't even as good as the old V-15 Type
VxMR, and it's not as good as hundreds of better cartridges then or now (it
was a hell of a tracker, though, I'll give the V15 Type VxMR that!).

[Scott[_6_]]

On Jun 22, 6:13*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Sonnova" wrote in message

...





On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:51:05 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:14:17 -0700, MOSFET wrote

It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Sorry. There's nothing decent in that price range.

Sure there is - the Shure M97Xe.

Yeccchhh! If you think those are decent, then I begin to understand your
bias
against vinyl records. If I listened to records with a cartridge like
that,
I'd probably hate records too.

Sue me for not being prejudiced against hhigh performance equipment just
because it lacks a 3 or 4 digit price tag. I''ve heard many high end
cartridges that people worship, and very much of what they idolize
disappears in a blind test.- Hide quoted text -


I'd love to hear about those time synched, level matched double blind
comparisons you did between the Shure and the four digit price tagged
cartridges. I mean if you are playing the blind test card you must
have the goods. Which four digit price tagged cartridges did you use?
How did you manage to do the time syncing and level matching? What
tables and arms did you use? What preamp? What LPs did you use? Must
have been quite a job.

[Norman Schwartz]

On Jun 20, 7:14*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
to MP3. *I used to buy only Audio Technica cartridges as a kid as I
thought
they made a very good product at a reasonable price. *Is that still the
case? *Are there others to consider? *Like I said, I am DEINATELY looking
for a NEW cartridge and stylus (I do a lot of shopping on Ebay), but I am
not going to spend $500 on a Grado
flagship model. *It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Thank you in advance for any advice in this matter!!!!


There are very many both standard and P-mount cartridges within your
price range:

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-S...ono-Cartridges

The Sumiko Pearls prefably the Oyster or the Grados (the Green or even
the less expensive Grados). I'll even go so far as to dare say that
they will produce results equal to many which cost thousands of
dollars. (This was true many years ago in my relative youth when my
hearing was a lot better :-(
The Sumiko Oyster and Grado Green will even track as well as their
more expensive brethren.

To generate excellent sounding MP3s from your old LP collection you
needn't spend big bucks.

MOSFET

[bob]

On Jun 20, 7:14*pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
First off, I've never posted here, or been here, before so let me start by
saying "HI" to everyone!!!

I have an old Technics SL-B2 turntable that is in perfect shape and works
perfectly as well. *I have had it for many, many years. *However, it has
been relagated to a box that is kept in my attic or garage for the last 25
years. *I still have my record collection going back to 1978 when I
purchased my first LP, and I accumulated records at a pretty good clip
(perhaps 2 a week) until, I would say, 1988, when EVERYTHING was switched to
CD's. *Even the EP's that were the last hold-out of recordings not found on
CD, but only on vinyl, really disappeared by 1992. *By '91-'93, except for
an extremelly small niche market of audiophiles (who to THIS DAY will claim
that LP's still sound better than CD's given very HIGH quality recordings,
EXPERT mastering techniques, and EXCEPTIONAL equipment used in playback).

Also, besides Audiophiles, DJ's continue to this day to use vinyl in clubs
as
mxing one song to the next is MUCH easier than with CD's (though advances in
DJ oriented CD mixing gear with controls like BPM synchrnozation has leveled
the playing field to a large degree). *However, besides those two groups,
NOBODY BUYS vinyl
anymore.

Anyway, I have about 400-500 LP's I was flipping through the other day and
felt nostalgic and wanted to hear some of this old stuff. *However, my
turntable is just missing a headshell and cartride (stylus too, of course).
I gave it to someone (the headshell and cartride) about 10 years ago as I
thought I would NEVER want to use the turntable again and he needed one, I
nearly threw my turntable out after that (well, I was going to give it to
the Salvation Army, same diff.)!!!!!

I have already ordered the headshell and it should be here tommorrow or the
next day.

My question is about what would give me the best bang for my buck in terms
of cartridges (with stylus, of course). *I definately want to buy new as you
NEVER know how many hours a used needle may have seen. *I am NOT an
audiophile NUT when it comes to my home gear (OK, a little bit) and my
turntable is certainly not one you would consider "high-end". *But it's
built like a tank (surprisingly heavy) and after literally decades of
collecting dust it fired right up, by using the strobe adjustment I dialed
in the PERFECT 33 1/3 and it never wavered (wow and flutter) at all.

I have no doubt it's as good (SQ wise) as any other Technics turntable (I
know, I know, DJ's all prefer the 1200 series with direct drive, mine's belt
driven, as the 1200's can go from 0-60 MPH in like .02 seconds or some damn
thing like that which is advantages to DJ's). *But again, sound quality
wise, they all SOUND the same
(given the same cartride) and it becomes more a factor of, again, your
cartridege and stylus selection as Technics does not employ more esoteric
turntable construction techniques (like thick glass platters, drive-motors
COMPLETELY seperated from the spinning table itself, only joined by the belt
in an
attempt to COMPLETELY erradicate any motor noise that might creep in, and
EVEN MORE essoteric and complicated means of isolating ANY vibrations in the
environment or the surface the turntable is placed upon. *These esoteric
turntables might empoly (to name only a few) double decker affairs where the
first part of the table is simply a vibrations absorber; different materials
employed in constructing some tables such as carbon fiber, fiberglass, REAL
glass, and so on and so on......).

Anyway, back to my original question. *Do any of you out there have a
favorite cartridge maker and if so why? *I don't want to spend a ridiculous
amount of money, I just want my records to sound decent as I plan to
transpose them
to MP3. *I used to buy only Audio Technica cartridges as a kid as I thought
they made a very good product at a reasonable price. *Is that still the
case? *Are there others to consider? *Like I said, I am DEINATELY looking
for a NEW cartridge and stylus (I do a lot of shopping on Ebay), but I am
not going to spend $500 on a Grado
flagship model. *It MUST be under $100, preferably under $50.

Thank you in advance for any advice in this matter!!!!

MOSFET

Ignore the attitude. Your turntable is fine if it seems fine to you.
Nice carts you can find for under $100:

Grado Black
Shure M97
A-T 440

Enjoy.

bob