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#1
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a
cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Are my alternatives cheaper or more expensive? Any help would be appreciated--thanks. |
#2
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"TheKeith" wrote in message
... I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. Because "toobs" is a big marketing ploy (at least in this low end market). Some don't even employ the so-called "tube" but it's stuck in there just so they can market it as tube. |
#3
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
TheKeith wrote: I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. You're missing something. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Are my alternatives cheaper or more expensive? Any help would be appreciated--thanks. 'Tubes' colour the sound ( intentionally and to some ppls' liking ) to be vague. If you want accuracy look elsewhere - won't be hard. Graham |
#4
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
In article ,
"TheKeith" writes: In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone Wow... someone who is very new to electronic devices, has a short memory, or is a youngster. Didn't radios have tubes in them when you were a youngster, and didn't you see the tube testers in drug stores and hardware stores? ;-) who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Here's a very breif, and greatly over-simplified, explanation: It's a thermionic valve, a.k.a. a vacuum tube. It's a glass tube containing a vacuum, getter, a plate, a filament to boil the electrons off the cathode (or off itself if no separate cathode is used), one or more grids (except in the case of diodes) to control the flow of electrons, etc. Think of it as a valve that controls the flow of electrons through a circuit. A very small change in the voltage applied to the grid can result in a very large change in voltage in a circuit using a tube. which is why a microphone, producing a small voltage, connected to a circuit using tubes can make a loudspeaker's cone move (to do so requires a larger voltage). It's like you use just a little pressure on the gas pedal in your car, with your foot, to make something much larger move with little effort on your part .... ok, not a very good analogy, techically, but hopefully you get the point... it's very late, I'm getting sleepy, and can't think of a better analogy at the moment. A tube is basically what transistors were designed to replace (only the transistor is current controlled, not voltage controlled, and is much smaller, typically requiring lower voltages in its circuitry, etc. Tubes and transistors exhibit different forms of distortion, which is basically why amplifiers using tubes and transistors are said to sound different (tube distortion is more pleasing to the ear), and why tube amps can sound louder at the same power levels as transistor amplifiers, etc. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. |
#5
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
TheKeith wrote:
I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Are my alternatives cheaper or more expensive? Any help would be appreciated--thanks. You should be able to find a cheap mixer with a preamp (and phantom power) built in. You don't need tubes. Most people who think they need tubes don't, either. -- After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such steps are necessary. ...Charlie |
#6
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"R. D. Davis" wrote in message
... were a youngster, and didn't you see the tube testers in drug stores Most kids today would think you're talking about a home pregnancy test kit if you said that. |
#7
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
TheKeith wrote:
make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. Probably the only way to make them costly enough. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? From the specs about the smallest Behringer mixer you can get will be able do to all you need. Do I need one of these tube preamps, No, steer well clear of them, they intentionally distort and are intended for special effects use in a musical context. Any help would be appreciated--thanks. Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** *********** |
#8
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
From the specs about the smallest Behringer mixer you can get will be able do to all you need. is this what you had in mind: http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHUB802 -- this is actually the second cheapest; the cheapest one doesn't seems to have the 48V phantom I need. This is good because it will allow me to do other things also. Thanks for the suggestion. Do I need one of these tube preamps, No, steer well clear of them, they intentionally distort and are intended for special effects use in a musical context. this is what I suspected -- I just need a straight forward preamp. |
#9
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"R. D. Davis" wrote in message ... In article , "TheKeith" writes: In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone Wow... someone who is very new to electronic devices, has a short memory, or is a youngster. Didn't radios have tubes in them when you were a youngster, and didn't you see the tube testers in drug stores and hardware stores? ;-) well, I have heard of them of course--I'm not that young, but I never knew exactly what they did from a technical standpoint, and never knew why so many people like them for music. I just wasn't sure why all preamps seem to have tubes and why there aren't any ordinary, inexpensive, one-channel, non-tube preamps available. who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Here's a very breif, and greatly over-simplified, explanation: It's a thermionic valve, a.k.a. a vacuum tube. It's a glass tube containing a vacuum, getter, a plate, a filament to boil the electrons off the cathode (or off itself if no separate cathode is used), one or more grids (except in the case of diodes) to control the flow of electrons, etc. Think of it as a valve that controls the flow of electrons through a circuit. A very small change in the voltage applied to the grid can result in a very large change in voltage in a circuit using a tube. which is why a microphone, producing a small voltage, connected to a circuit using tubes can make a loudspeaker's cone move (to do so requires a larger voltage). It's like you use just a little pressure on the gas pedal in your car, with your foot, to make something much larger move with little effort on your part ... ok, not a very good analogy, techically, but hopefully you get the point... it's very late, I'm getting sleepy, and can't think of a better analogy at the moment. A tube is basically what transistors were designed to replace (only the transistor is current controlled, not voltage controlled, and is much smaller, typically requiring lower voltages in its circuitry, etc. Tubes and transistors exhibit different forms of distortion, which is basically why amplifiers using tubes and transistors are said to sound different (tube distortion is more pleasing to the ear), and why tube amps can sound louder at the same power levels as transistor amplifiers, etc. I appreciate the good explanation--thanks. |
#10
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
You should be able to find a cheap mixer with a preamp (and phantom power) built in. You don't need tubes. Most people who think they need tubes don't, either. thanks--that's what I'll do. |
#11
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
TheKeith wrote:
From the specs about the smallest Behringer mixer you can get will be able do to all you need. is this what you had in mind: http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHUB802 ... Yes, exactly the one, it appears to be "about the smallest", it was not an absolutely exact statement on purpose but it is the one I recall seeing on some webpage and considering for a system I suggested. Again, I haven't actually listened to it .... Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ************************************************** *********** * \\\\\\\ Quality Ascii handcrafted by Peter Larsen /////// * * \\\\\\\ My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk /////// * ************************************************** *********** |
#12
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"TheKeith" wrote:
[ ... ] Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Or you could get a good outboard phantom power supply (e.g. Denecke) and use it between the "Audio Buddy" preamp and your microphone--provided that your mike doesn't put out any signals greater than about 100 mV. Above that level, the inputs of the "Audio Buddy" tend to overload. But the question you ask in the subject line is an interesting one, too. It has mainly to do with marketing. In this day and age, technical features have become marketing categories: "large-diaphragm condensers" are marketed as if "everyone knows" what one of those sounds like, and similarly, equipment that uses a vacuum tube somewhere in the circuit is placed in a category as if "everyone knows" what it will sound like just from knowing that it has a tube inside. Both assumptions are false, but the prospect of selling more boxes if they say they have "tubes" in them now causes companies to design tube equipment for its own sake. I've even seen one ad for a microphone (not a stereo mike, either) that boasts of having two tubes in it, almost as if that were something that no other microphone manufacturer could have accomplished. I'm old enough to have lived in the era when _all_ audio equipment was vacuum tube equipment, and I began recording during the transition from tube to solid state (transistorized) equipment. Back then, it was "solid state" that served as the phony marketing category--the newness of the technology allowed certain products of poor sound quality to enter the market, for a while at least. So there was occasionally a real reason to sneer at the inferior quality of certain transistorized products, just as there has been real reason to sneer at certain digital audio products along the way. Pardon this digression, but the parallel is instructive: I can well remember how interesting it was when Hitachi introduced their first CD player, which was obviously not up to the quality level of the other players that had preceded it on the market. People were trying to wrap their heads around the concept that not all CD players sounded alike. (You'd hardly fathom that today, when the prevailing ideology says that every component naturally has a "sound" of its own.) I was involved in the production of a number of the first CDs released in the United States, and I know the processes that were followed. It doesn't surprise me at all that many people hated digital audio based on the quality of some of those early releases! The need for careful remastering--with careful listening to the result by competent people-- was not generally recognized at first. Instead, the labels mostly threw their grungy fourth-generation analog cutting masters our way and told us to generate unequalized digital transfers from them. Then they sent those tapes right to the CD pressing plants. Yuck. Even worse, some labels which were bringing out their first CDs wanted to make extra sure that their customers would hear enough difference between the LPs and CDs to justify repurchasing their records in the new medium. Unfortunately many producers seem to equate "new sounding" with "bright sounding" so when those masters were transferred, their defects became even more glaring. Many labels realized only too late that their asses had been being saved by LP mastering engineers all along--but those people, the ultimate guardians of audio quality in the record production universe, were cut out of the CD mastering process at first. It was a while before the labels realized the folly of that, and engaged those same people to master CDs for release. But as soon as you hear one really good-sounding CD, you have to give up any general prejudice against digital audio. Similarly, most engineers who started out suspicious of solid-state gear learned that for most applications it could be as good as the best tube gear. Not necessarily identical under any and all operating conditions--but as good as, and a heck of a lot more practical (less delicate; more reliable; lower size, weight and cost). The two areas of audio in which tubes remained predominant were the final stages of high-powered VHF and UHF transmitters and, for some folks, guitar and bass amplifiers. The former was for straightforward technical reasons (capacitance, heat dissipation) while the latter was because some players liked the sound they got when they overdrove certain amplifiers. Those players tended to be picky about what kind of circuitry and which exact type of tubes they were using, so it wasn't a generic "tube" thing by any means--it was a particular tone effect caused by treatment which might well be considered a kind of misuse of the equipment under any other circumstances. I'm no expert on the social history of the home studio market but I do think that many people come into it starting as guitar players, and the idea that tube sound is rounder and fuller makes some sense if you start from the assumption that you're going to overdrive an amp for a cool tone effect. It makes much less sense in any other context, however-- especially if the equipment handles signals with varying dynamic content. Most of all, the type of rounding of overloaded sound which some (not all) tube equipment can do under some (not even most) conditions has little or nothing to do with tube sound in the era when "tubes were king". Tube sound back then was just sound. So is solid-state or digital sound today, when it's done right. If you do it right, no one should be able to tell how you did it or with what type of equipment; the music itself should be the thing they hear, and that has never changed. |
#13
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
Tubes add "warmth" to your vocals.
A lot of folks seem to think their vocals will sound like crap without a $1000+ tube mike. Personally, IMHO, I think you can record just about anything you need to do vocal wise on a SM58 - for around a hundred bucks. If you want to warm up the track, use your VST's :-) On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 03:15:55 -0500, "TheKeith" wrote: "R. D. Davis" wrote in message ... In article , "TheKeith" writes: In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone Wow... someone who is very new to electronic devices, has a short memory, or is a youngster. Didn't radios have tubes in them when you were a youngster, and didn't you see the tube testers in drug stores and hardware stores? ;-) well, I have heard of them of course--I'm not that young, but I never knew exactly what they did from a technical standpoint, and never knew why so many people like them for music. I just wasn't sure why all preamps seem to have tubes and why there aren't any ordinary, inexpensive, one-channel, non-tube preamps available. who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Here's a very breif, and greatly over-simplified, explanation: It's a thermionic valve, a.k.a. a vacuum tube. It's a glass tube containing a vacuum, getter, a plate, a filament to boil the electrons off the cathode (or off itself if no separate cathode is used), one or more grids (except in the case of diodes) to control the flow of electrons, etc. Think of it as a valve that controls the flow of electrons through a circuit. A very small change in the voltage applied to the grid can result in a very large change in voltage in a circuit using a tube. which is why a microphone, producing a small voltage, connected to a circuit using tubes can make a loudspeaker's cone move (to do so requires a larger voltage). It's like you use just a little pressure on the gas pedal in your car, with your foot, to make something much larger move with little effort on your part ... ok, not a very good analogy, techically, but hopefully you get the point... it's very late, I'm getting sleepy, and can't think of a better analogy at the moment. A tube is basically what transistors were designed to replace (only the transistor is current controlled, not voltage controlled, and is much smaller, typically requiring lower voltages in its circuitry, etc. Tubes and transistors exhibit different forms of distortion, which is basically why amplifiers using tubes and transistors are said to sound different (tube distortion is more pleasing to the ear), and why tube amps can sound louder at the same power levels as transistor amplifiers, etc. I appreciate the good explanation--thanks. |
#14
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
In article , TheKeith wrote:
I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. None of them are actually tube preamps. They are all cheap solid-state preamps with a fake tube distortion stage in them, so they can put tube on the box. Basically, this stuff is all aimed at people who think tubes are cool and don't have any clue what equipment is supposed to sound like. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Are my alternatives cheaper or more expensive? Any help would be appreciated--thanks. Tubes are what people used before the transistor was invented in 1947. They have some advantages and some disadvantages, but in most of the cheap gear they are gimmicks. I am sorry to admit it, but I think your best bet is to get a Mackie 1202 console and use the mike preamps out of it. You should be able to find one for $200 or so used. They are basically the cheapest mike preamps I would ever recommend. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#15
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
In Article , "TheKeith"
wrote: I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Are my alternatives cheaper or more expensive? Any help would be appreciated--thanks. Keith, Just get a phantom power supply. Ty Ford **Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address. Please remove it if you want to email me directly. For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews, click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford |
#16
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
If you're happy with your current preamp, then just get a little Rolls
Phantom Power box. That'll run you about $25-30. I think ART makes one as well. If you're looking for an upgrade to what you have for under $100, then just about the only thing I can think of is a Symetrix SX202...but you'll have to find one used....and that would be a pretty good price to get one for $100. They seem to usually go a bit over that, closer to $200. Other than that...you're probably better off sticking with what you've got until you can afford or want to spend the extra money for something better...usually in the $500 range...primarily for an RNP that is. later, m |
#17
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
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#19
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 22 Dec 2003 10:15:44 -0500, (Mike Rivers) I'm no expert on the social history of the home studio market but I do think that many people come into it starting as guitar players, and the idea that tube sound is rounder and fuller makes some sense if you start from the assumption that you're going to overdrive an amp for a cool tone effect. It makes much less sense in any other context, however-- especially if the equipment handles signals with varying dynamic content. The usual reason for this type of user to want a tube somewhere in the digital chain is because their digital equipment is not sufficiently accurate, and that it needs something to take the "digital edge" off their recordings. Excuse me? Given that digital done right is far *more* accurate than any analogue equivalent, this doesn't make sense. Most digital isn't done right at all, sad to say. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#20
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
snip It depends whether you like the same signal to come out of the output as went in the input. For that, you don't need tubes. It's easier to achieve a "wire with gain" using solid state than vacuum tube, IMHO. -- After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such steps are necessary. ...Charlie |
#21
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
David Satz wrote:
snip excellent material for brevity WELL SAID! -- After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such steps are necessary. ...Charlie |
#22
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"CJT" wrote in message
... Stewart Pinkerton wrote: snip It depends whether you like the same signal to come out of the output as went in the input. For that, you don't need tubes. It's easier to achieve a "wire with gain" using solid state than vacuum tube, IMHO. That's my feeling too. In fact I believe one we reason we like analog (though don't want to admit it) is because it DOESN'T sound like we really do. I covers a multitude of sins and makes us (well, at least me) sound better than am at times. |
#23
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
Ricky W. Hunt wrote:
"CJT" wrote in message ... Stewart Pinkerton wrote: snip It depends whether you like the same signal to come out of the output as went in the input. For that, you don't need tubes. It's easier to achieve a "wire with gain" using solid state than vacuum tube, IMHO. That's my feeling too. In fact I believe one we reason we like analog (though don't want to admit it) is because it DOESN'T sound like we really do. I covers a multitude of sins and makes us (well, at least me) sound better than am at times. Well, it depends a lot on what you want to do. On a condenser microphone input stage, it can be a lot easier to design a very clean sounding one with a tube than a transistor, in part because it's easy to get very high Z tube stages with low input capacitance. It's very hard to design a good mike preamp that is transparent using tubes, because it's hard to match the low-Z mike output efficiently to a tube input circuit without using a transformer, and transformers are not transparent (especially high ratio, high-Z ones like you need here). It can be done, and Frank Forssell has done a great job of it but it's not easy. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#24
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"TheKeith" wrote in message
I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. AFAIK, you've missed all of the low-end Behringer mixers. |
#26
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
CJT wrote in message ...
TheKeith wrote: I've posted two other questions in the last week regarding my need for a cheap mic preamp capable of powering my 48V phantom powered condenser mic and then feeding the signal into the line-in on my sound card. Right now, I have a midiman audio buddy, but since it's incapable of providing the mic with the necessary 48V phantom power, I need a new preamp. Someone in my last post indicated that I don't necessarily need a tube preamp, but didn't make any alternative suggestions. All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. In case you haven't realized, I'm a newbie to all this stuff, and as someone who only needs to do some simple voiceover work for my flash cartoons, I was wondering what exactly I need? Do I need one of these tube preamps, or is there an even cheaper solution that doesn't employ a tube? What even is a tube and what is their benefit? Are my alternatives cheaper or more expensive? Any help would be appreciated--thanks. You should be able to find a cheap mixer with a preamp (and phantom power) built in. You don't need tubes. Most people who think they need tubes don't, either. Well then,I guess I don't *need* them,I could use a SS power amp,and it would work just dandy..But I prefer them,and I *do* need a tube "fix" every now and then! (Tubes are a habit,ya know!) ;-) |
#27
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
On 22 Dec 2003 13:41:00 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 22 Dec 2003 10:15:44 -0500, (Mike Rivers) I'm no expert on the social history of the home studio market but I do think that many people come into it starting as guitar players, and the idea that tube sound is rounder and fuller makes some sense if you start from the assumption that you're going to overdrive an amp for a cool tone effect. It makes much less sense in any other context, however-- especially if the equipment handles signals with varying dynamic content. The usual reason for this type of user to want a tube somewhere in the digital chain is because their digital equipment is not sufficiently accurate, and that it needs something to take the "digital edge" off their recordings. Excuse me? Given that digital done right is far *more* accurate than any analogue equivalent, this doesn't make sense. Most digital isn't done right at all, sad to say. Well, you would say that, wouldn't you, Scooter? :-) -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#28
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
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#29
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
"TheKeith" wrote in message
... All of the cheap preamps out there (sub-$75) seem to be tube preamps, unless I'm missing something. I honestly did not know there was such a thing as a sub-$75 preamp, much less a choice of tubes or not. -- Rick Knepper MicroComputer Support Services Knepper Audio Ft. Worth, TX 817-239-9632 413-215-1267 Fax PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering Recording http://www.rknepper.com |
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Why Are All Cheap Mic preamps Tubes?
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 22 Dec 2003 19:30:31 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: Well, it depends a lot on what you want to do. On a condenser microphone input stage, it can be a lot easier to design a very clean sounding one with a tube than a transistor, in part because it's easy to get very high Z tube stages with low input capacitance. You can do the same thing with high-voltage FETs, which also have nicely low output impedance. You can, but it's not easy. Compare the Miller capacitance on a 6AU6 mini pentode with that of a 2SK170 FET. It's really a nightmare getting good input FETs for mikes. Even so, there are some big issues with linearity caused by the capacitance varying with modulation like a varactor diode. There are sneaky tricks like input compensation and substrate biasing, but with a 6AU6 you just drop it in and it works. It's very hard to design a good mike preamp that is transparent using tubes, because it's hard to match the low-Z mike output efficiently to a tube input circuit without using a transformer, and transformers are not transparent (especially high ratio, high-Z ones like you need here). It can be done, and Frank Forssell has done a great job of it but it's not easy. Agreed it can be done, and of course every mic has a sonic signature, so the tube amp can still be a matter of preference, and can reasonably be counted as part of the original performance. Absolutely, but the original question was what is easier to make a clean sounding device with. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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