Actually, it's a sphere.

Actually, its an oblate spheroid.


Sorry, I was just feeling left out and wanted to get in on the fun.

Me too!

Lester what exactly is a "know name newbie" Feel free to explain in
scientific or Layman's terms. LOL

In article ,
othanks (Soundfreak03) wrote:
LOL


Yes it is funny, that you think that because a know name newbie agrees with you
your right. You are a fool.

Les

Mark, would you call a car an controlled testing environment?


In article , "Mark Zarella"
wrote:
In fact, if I remember right..it's been a while..I was actually on the
circuit the first year IASCA was formed. I remember doing some USAC before
that..it's kinda foggy. I do remember hanging around with Richard Clark
for
a good while at the various shows...smart guy. In fact, he taught me a lot
about amplifiers.

Well, then you didn't learn much from Richard Clark. He currently has a
$10,000 amplifier challenge going on where he claims that you can't hear the
difference between any two ampsof your choosing in a controlled testing
environment. You should go take his challenge. It should be an easy $10k
for you, huh?

Lester what exactly is a "know name newbie" Feel free to explain in
scientific or Layman's terms. LOL


Spelling mistake. My bad. But it is sad when that is the best you have. Here is
the bottom line Howdy Doody, What has been said by myself can be proven.
Through methods of controlled tested. What you and Pug said cannot, you can
offer zero evidence and both you and Pug resort to strawman arguments and
outright lies. You guys are pitiful. When you actually have a reasonable
argument then we will discuss.

Les

Mark, would you call a car an controlled testing environment?


They can be. Do you think they couldnt? Though it would be easier to for the
person taking the contest for it to be done indoors. And if you cant tell the
difference indoors without any noise then you sure as hell cant tell the
difference in your car going 70 down the highway.

Les

Mark, would you call a car an controlled testing environment?

Depends what the question is. If you want to know what the difference is in
a car, a car would be the best (perhaps only) place to perform the test.
But by "controlled environment", there's usually a set of controls that are
essential to a proper test. You can't simply hook up an amp, listen to it,
then hook up the other and claim that the proper controls were done. First,
you need to level match (by scope, not by ear). You need to decide what
kind of a/b method you'll use, and what kind of program material. You have
to make sure it's a blind test (listener can't know which amplifier is
currently playing). And other paradigm-specific controls may need to be
implemented.

Is oblate even a word? I've heard oblong (who hasn't), but not oblate.



Paul Vina




"BANDIT2941" wrote in message
...
Actually, it's a sphere.

Actually, its an oblate spheroid.


Sorry, I was just feeling left out and wanted to get in on the fun.

Me too!

Yep, here's the definition:

ob·late

adj.
1) Having the shape of a spheroid generated by rotating an ellipse
about its shorter axis.

2) Having an equatorial diameter greater than the distance between
poles; compressed along or flattened at the poles: "Planet Earth is an
oblate solid."

I knew that the Earth was "squished" and fatter around the middle, but
my teachers back in high school just used to call it "barrel-shaped".
I'd never heard "oblate" before today, either.

Scott Gardner


On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 07:45:58 GMT, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

Is oblate even a word? I've heard oblong (who hasn't), but not oblate.



Paul Vina




"BANDIT2941" wrote in message
...
Actually, it's a sphere.

Actually, its an oblate spheroid.


Sorry, I was just feeling left out and wanted to get in on the fun.

Me too!

Ya learn something new everyday.


Paul Vina




"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
Yep, here's the definition:

ob·late

adj.
1) Having the shape of a spheroid generated by rotating an ellipse
about its shorter axis.

2) Having an equatorial diameter greater than the distance between
poles; compressed along or flattened at the poles: "Planet Earth is an
oblate solid."

I knew that the Earth was "squished" and fatter around the middle, but
my teachers back in high school just used to call it "barrel-shaped".
I'd never heard "oblate" before today, either.

Scott Gardner


On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 07:45:58 GMT, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

Is oblate even a word? I've heard oblong (who hasn't), but not oblate.



Paul Vina




"BANDIT2941" wrote in message
...
Actually, it's a sphere.

Actually, its an oblate spheroid.


Sorry, I was just feeling left out and wanted to get in on the fun.


Me too!

Ya learn something new everyday.


Thats the beauty of usenet .

Thats what we called it in physics anyway, an oblate spheroid, since by
definition it really is.

I have 4 times the evidence, 3 profile amps and one Jensen amp sitting here
with two Alpine amps, four MTX Thunder amps and one PPI amp to compare them
too. That's all the evidence that I need to feel satisfied about what I said.




In article ,
othanks (Soundfreak03) wrote:
Lester what exactly is a "know name newbie" Feel free to explain in
scientific or Layman's terms. LOL


Spelling mistake. My bad. But it is sad when that is the best you have. Here is
the bottom line Howdy Doody, What has been said by myself can be proven.
Through methods of controlled tested. What you and Pug said cannot, you can
offer zero evidence and both you and Pug resort to strawman arguments and
outright lies. You guys are pitiful. When you actually have a reasonable
argument then we will discuss.

Les

You created A CONDITION where the two amps sounded the same.
(like Clarks Amp challenge does)

neither your test or Clarks test proves that all amps are the same though.
I know your not saying that Tom, but some folks may want to use this
data to make a claim otherwise.

Eddie

Nousaine wrote:

Here's an interesting aside on this topic, which should be good news to car
enthusiasts. A few years ago I was testing/comparing several car audio
amplifiers. Following the test I took the least competent of these amplifiers
branded Adcom (by least competent I mean lower power and fewer features) and
compared it to a Bryston 4B-NRB home amplifier using hi-fi home speakers in an
ABX double blind listening test. Neither I nor two other listeners were able to
reliably tell the two amplifiers apart.

IOW the car amp sounded identical to a high-end power ampliifer.

Eddie Runner wrote:



You created A CONDITION where the two amps sounded the same.
(like Clarks Amp challenge does)

neither your test or Clarks test proves that all amps are the same though.
I know your not saying that Tom, but some folks may want to use this
data to make a claim otherwise.

Eddie

Nousaine wrote:

Here's an interesting aside on this topic, which should be good news to car
enthusiasts. A few years ago I was testing/comparing several car audio
amplifiers. Following the test I took the least competent of these
amplifiers
branded Adcom (by least competent I mean lower power and fewer features)
and
compared it to a Bryston 4B-NRB home amplifier using hi-fi home speakers in
an
ABX double blind listening test. Neither I nor two other listeners were
able to
reliably tell the two amplifiers apart.

IOW the car amp sounded identical to a high-end power ampliifer.

Did nothing but match levels. No EQ was used on either device.

I know I know...
But a kid that has a cheap starter amp in his car for a while
and then saves up to buy a better amp and can OBVIOUSLY
hear a difference isnt LEVEL MATCHING his two amplifiers!
He is crankin the crap out of em!! haha

So the *condition* you had in your test is NOT a normal condition...

Eddie Runner
Kinda like if you call a guy on the phone and disquise your voice
like a girl, doesnt mean you always sound ike a girl!

Nousaine wrote:

Eddie Runner wrote:
You created A CONDITION where the two amps sounded the same.
(like Clarks Amp challenge does)
Did nothing but match levels. No EQ was used on either device.

I know I know...
But a kid that has a cheap starter amp in his car for a while
and then saves up to buy a better amp and can OBVIOUSLY
hear a difference isnt LEVEL MATCHING his two amplifiers!
He is crankin the crap out of em!! haha

So the *condition* you had in your test is NOT a normal condition...

But that's not the discussion at hand. That "disclaimer" has already been
made in the prior posts. There isn't a single person in this thread who
disputes what you're saying. Level-matching is an important control for
this discussion because the assertion being made by Pug, et al, is that two
amps, even when delivering the same amount of power into a load, will sound
different.

I know Mark,
Im just making sure someone that comes into the middle of this
knows all amps ARE NOT REALLY EQUAL!

Mark Zarella wrote:

I know I know...
But a kid that has a cheap starter amp in his car for a while
and then saves up to buy a better amp and can OBVIOUSLY
hear a difference isnt LEVEL MATCHING his two amplifiers!
He is crankin the crap out of em!! haha

So the *condition* you had in your test is NOT a normal condition...

But that's not the discussion at hand. That "disclaimer" has already been
made in the prior posts. There isn't a single person in this thread who
disputes what you're saying. Level-matching is an important control for
this discussion because the assertion being made by Pug, et al, is that two
amps, even when delivering the same amount of power into a load, will sound
different.

Ok, I have been reading on this forum and two other audio ones for a
while and I cannot keep quite about this anymore. Amps are NOT created
equal!!! You CAN hear the difference in an el-cheapo Jenson, and a SS
Reference, or McIntosh, etc... I had to use a Jenson once, for a short
time while one of my Class A's were off getting a diode replaced. That
Jenson sounded like ASS!!! It hummed, popped, hissed, you name it. It
was a POS AMP!! The day my SS came home was like the second coming of
Christ!! Cheap amps sound like ****. There is a reason why true
Audiophiles give amps a SQ rating. It's because they can HEAR the damn
difference!! Every one of you that claim "A watt is a watt. You cannot
here the difference between a cheap and and a quality one." are as
stupid as the idiots that use the CDROM tray as a damn cupholder!!

/rant

Mike


--
putergod
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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"putergod" wrote in message
news

(snip a bunch of mindless drivel from an obvious noob)

If you really read everything then you would realize which side actually
bases their findings on facts and science and which bases theirs off of
mindless claims of "i heard it, so it must be true". The ones that say that
amps make this huge dramatic differences, like hearing christ, are basing
their "findings" on an ineffiecient device that cannot remember sounds well.
Which is an asinine thing to do at best. So I say to you, what I have said
to all other idiots who spout the same mindless drivel, PROVE IT!

Les

Les,
I dont have any problem believeing what the guy said...

Why do you think a Jensen and Soundstream would
sound the same..??

Eddie

Les wrote:

"putergod" wrote in message
news

(snip a bunch of mindless drivel from an obvious noob)

If you really read everything then you would realize which side actually
bases their findings on facts and science and which bases theirs off of
mindless claims of "i heard it, so it must be true". The ones that say that
amps make this huge dramatic differences, like hearing christ, are basing
their "findings" on an ineffiecient device that cannot remember sounds well.
Which is an asinine thing to do at best. So I say to you, what I have said
to all other idiots who spout the same mindless drivel, PROVE IT!

Les

I had to use a Jenson once, for a short
time while one of my Class A's were off getting a diode replaced. That
Jenson sounded like ASS!!!

Of course, there's no possibility that the amp(s) were damaged, improperly
connected, improperly tuned or being overworked, right? And of course, the
Jensen's had the same power output as the amps they were filling in for, right?
And I'm sure everything was level matched, correct? The plain and simple truth
is that the human ear isn't good at retaining the specifics of sound. That's
why the only really "viable" way to demo speakers is to have them all setup in
one room and to demo them one after another. There are a number of reasons,
both dealing with the details of your setup and the biology of your body that
could explain why those Jensen's sounded "like ass". I, for instance, am not
sure I know what an ass sounds like....

There is a reason why true
Audiophiles give amps a SQ rating.

There sure is, to make themselves feel better about their purchase.

It's because they can HEAR the damn
difference!!

Perception and reality are quite different things. This discussion could get
quite philosophical...

Every one of you that claim "A watt is a watt. You cannot
here the difference between a cheap and and a quality one." are as
stupid as the idiots that use the CDROM tray as a damn cupholder!!

Fine, then explain the differences - in scientifically acceptable lanuguage -
between the wattage output from a Jensen amp and the wattage output from a
Zapco Competition Series Amp. We're waiting on baited breath here Mike.

Well, when I was auditioning a Diamond D7054 and an Xtant X603 (front stage
powering only, through Focal 165Ws), I could clearly hear the difference
between the two. The Xtant offered a slightly warmer, more natural sound
than the Diamond, at the expense of a bit of detail resolution. Both amps
were cabled the same, and were off the same conditioned power source (we
didn't swap inputs into the board, just to be sure in case you're
wondering). I went with the Xtant.

If you EVER have the chance to listen to a Halcro amp (they're home-based,
not mobile), you will be unable to tell ANYONE that there's no difference in
amps, period. Best damn amazing piece of SS electronics engineering so far
produced. The dm58 is a truly incredible listen.


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I had to use a Jenson once, for a short
time while one of my Class A's were off getting a diode replaced. That
Jenson sounded like ASS!!!

Of course, there's no possibility that the amp(s) were damaged, improperly
connected, improperly tuned or being overworked, right? And of course, the
Jensen's had the same power output as the amps they were filling in for,
right?
And I'm sure everything was level matched, correct? The plain and simple
truth
is that the human ear isn't good at retaining the specifics of sound.
That's
why the only really "viable" way to demo speakers is to have them all
setup in
one room and to demo them one after another. There are a number of
reasons,
both dealing with the details of your setup and the biology of your body
that
could explain why those Jensen's sounded "like ass". I, for instance, am
not
sure I know what an ass sounds like....

There is a reason why true
Audiophiles give amps a SQ rating.

There sure is, to make themselves feel better about their purchase.

It's because they can HEAR the damn
difference!!

Perception and reality are quite different things. This discussion could
get
quite philosophical...

Every one of you that claim "A watt is a watt. You cannot
here the difference between a cheap and and a quality one." are as
stupid as the idiots that use the CDROM tray as a damn cupholder!!

Fine, then explain the differences - in scientifically acceptable
lanuguage -
between the wattage output from a Jensen amp and the wattage output from a
Zapco Competition Series Amp. We're waiting on baited breath here Mike.