well I just had to express all this...

O M G

Been playing with my 1970's LP kit plus some new. I was into
electronics in the '70's and bought some stuff then....

Anyhow the idea was to re-record my 200+ old LP's into a more modern
format.

Today's hybrid kit was / is :

AGNULA (linux sound optimised OS) running on a 1999 K6-500 PC with
pathetic everything driven by Pioneer PL12D system + Stanton 500 (E?)
cartridge + Pioneer preamp. This "showed good promise" but not quite
right & was quickly replaced by:

AGNULA running on 2000 PIII-700 box, 300M+ ram, VideoXS SonicFury
soundcard (very nice indeed) driven by PL12D + Shure M75ED/2 (tracking
at 0.8g) I just happened to get in '78 but didn't use + same Pioneer
preamp.

- capturing at 16 bits, 48000 bits/sec using Krecord, then through GWC
(gnome wave cleaner) for de-click/scratch - then audacity for cropping
+ rumble filter + h/f blush on worn LP's (about 1.75 dB per octave -
it's +0dB at 4000 Hz log rising to +4dB at 20,000) exported as .ogg
files yielding about 150kbit/sec at 48K sample rate. Whew. BTW all
apps apt-getted'd to current versions. OK, I'm into Linux software
nowadays (- it's good, it's free)

- and am staggered by the results.

Completely staggered. This is with old original Bowie, Zappa and Yes
LP's which have been worn to what I thought where nubs. Most are 2nd
hand and are indifferent quality - some I can personally rate at over
100 plays. The Shure turns in an excellent job, bringing clarity
across ranges I thought literally worn off the records years ago.


I did not ever think that the quality I'm getting was available on LP;
I moved over to CD in '86 and "never looked back" ... and forgot. More
fool me.


Working all this has been really emotional; the interest, absorption
and sheer involvement of the LP's makes me think of the genius I'd
glimpsed long ago of Nat King Cole / Halle Berry recordings. Present,
emotional, stunning...


Believe me I really did not think that this was all sitting for years
forgotten in a box somewhere, just waiting to be brought forth.

I am completely and utterly gobsmaked.

So WTF happened to make standard CD's so poor? Why have we been served
up such dross - just for our money to switch to a handier format?????
I must have poured so much away.


When I've done going through my back catalogue I must compare
St.Pepper & Dark Side of the Moon which I have in both CD and LP. Um,
Tubular Bells too.

It's not just me - playing the .ogg files to a friend "all sort of
casual like" he got HOOKED on Pink Floyd's Meddle. It is a completely
whelming experience; these home-digitised recordings just drag you in
and take you over!


Perhaps I should pull out the Leak valve amp now resting in a box in
the garage (a TL/12 plus I think) and revalve it. 9/10 it'll work 1st
time; that tech was solid. Pity about the (mono) Quad speaker I lost
in '78... anyhow, next I'm to record a load more Zappa... my this IS
fun ! Excellent use of time!

satayeen

That's great that you're enjoying this process so much. I don't doubt for a
second that the Shure (or almost any decent cartridge) blows away the
Stanton 500.

I do recommend tracking the Shure at least 1.0 gram, maybe a tad more. The
Type III and IV's were optimized for 1 gram, and although I don't have the
75ED specs here, I bet it's at least that rating.

There's lots of reason's your LP transcriptions sound "better" than your
CD's - very few of which have anything to do with any limitations of the CD
format.

Have fun!


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"satayeen" wrote in message
om...
well I just had to express all this...

O M G

Been playing with my 1970's LP kit plus some new. I was into
electronics in the '70's and bought some stuff then....

Anyhow the idea was to re-record my 200+ old LP's into a more modern
format.

Today's hybrid kit was / is :

AGNULA (linux sound optimised OS) running on a 1999 K6-500 PC with
pathetic everything driven by Pioneer PL12D system + Stanton 500 (E?)
cartridge + Pioneer preamp. This "showed good promise" but not quite
right & was quickly replaced by:

AGNULA running on 2000 PIII-700 box, 300M+ ram, VideoXS SonicFury
soundcard (very nice indeed) driven by PL12D + Shure M75ED/2 (tracking
at 0.8g) I just happened to get in '78 but didn't use + same Pioneer
preamp.

- capturing at 16 bits, 48000 bits/sec using Krecord, then through GWC
(gnome wave cleaner) for de-click/scratch - then audacity for cropping
+ rumble filter + h/f blush on worn LP's (about 1.75 dB per octave -
it's +0dB at 4000 Hz log rising to +4dB at 20,000) exported as .ogg
files yielding about 150kbit/sec at 48K sample rate. Whew. BTW all
apps apt-getted'd to current versions. OK, I'm into Linux software
nowadays (- it's good, it's free)

- and am staggered by the results.

Completely staggered. This is with old original Bowie, Zappa and Yes
LP's which have been worn to what I thought where nubs. Most are 2nd
hand and are indifferent quality - some I can personally rate at over
100 plays. The Shure turns in an excellent job, bringing clarity
across ranges I thought literally worn off the records years ago.


I did not ever think that the quality I'm getting was available on LP;
I moved over to CD in '86 and "never looked back" ... and forgot. More
fool me.


Working all this has been really emotional; the interest, absorption
and sheer involvement of the LP's makes me think of the genius I'd
glimpsed long ago of Nat King Cole / Halle Berry recordings. Present,
emotional, stunning...


Believe me I really did not think that this was all sitting for years
forgotten in a box somewhere, just waiting to be brought forth.

I am completely and utterly gobsmaked.

So WTF happened to make standard CD's so poor? Why have we been served
up such dross - just for our money to switch to a handier format?????
I must have poured so much away.


When I've done going through my back catalogue I must compare
St.Pepper & Dark Side of the Moon which I have in both CD and LP. Um,
Tubular Bells too.

It's not just me - playing the .ogg files to a friend "all sort of
casual like" he got HOOKED on Pink Floyd's Meddle. It is a completely
whelming experience; these home-digitised recordings just drag you in
and take you over!


Perhaps I should pull out the Leak valve amp now resting in a box in
the garage (a TL/12 plus I think) and revalve it. 9/10 it'll work 1st
time; that tech was solid. Pity about the (mono) Quad speaker I lost
in '78... anyhow, next I'm to record a load more Zappa... my this IS
fun ! Excellent use of time!

satayeen

P.S.

I do hope you're running the turntable into some sort of RIAA equalized
magnetic phono preamp.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message
...
That's great that you're enjoying this process so much. I don't doubt for
a
second that the Shure (or almost any decent cartridge) blows away the
Stanton 500.

I do recommend tracking the Shure at least 1.0 gram, maybe a tad more. The
Type III and IV's were optimized for 1 gram, and although I don't have the
75ED specs here, I bet it's at least that rating.

There's lots of reason's your LP transcriptions sound "better" than your
CD's - very few of which have anything to do with any limitations of the
CD
format.

Have fun!


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"satayeen" wrote in message
om...
well I just had to express all this...

O M G

Been playing with my 1970's LP kit plus some new. I was into
electronics in the '70's and bought some stuff then....

Anyhow the idea was to re-record my 200+ old LP's into a more modern
format.

Today's hybrid kit was / is :

AGNULA (linux sound optimised OS) running on a 1999 K6-500 PC with
pathetic everything driven by Pioneer PL12D system + Stanton 500 (E?)
cartridge + Pioneer preamp. This "showed good promise" but not quite
right & was quickly replaced by:

AGNULA running on 2000 PIII-700 box, 300M+ ram, VideoXS SonicFury
soundcard (very nice indeed) driven by PL12D + Shure M75ED/2 (tracking
at 0.8g) I just happened to get in '78 but didn't use + same Pioneer
preamp.

- capturing at 16 bits, 48000 bits/sec using Krecord, then through GWC
(gnome wave cleaner) for de-click/scratch - then audacity for cropping
+ rumble filter + h/f blush on worn LP's (about 1.75 dB per octave -
it's +0dB at 4000 Hz log rising to +4dB at 20,000) exported as .ogg
files yielding about 150kbit/sec at 48K sample rate. Whew. BTW all
apps apt-getted'd to current versions. OK, I'm into Linux software
nowadays (- it's good, it's free)

- and am staggered by the results.

Completely staggered. This is with old original Bowie, Zappa and Yes
LP's which have been worn to what I thought where nubs. Most are 2nd
hand and are indifferent quality - some I can personally rate at over
100 plays. The Shure turns in an excellent job, bringing clarity
across ranges I thought literally worn off the records years ago.


I did not ever think that the quality I'm getting was available on LP;
I moved over to CD in '86 and "never looked back" ... and forgot. More
fool me.


Working all this has been really emotional; the interest, absorption
and sheer involvement of the LP's makes me think of the genius I'd
glimpsed long ago of Nat King Cole / Halle Berry recordings. Present,
emotional, stunning...


Believe me I really did not think that this was all sitting for years
forgotten in a box somewhere, just waiting to be brought forth.

I am completely and utterly gobsmaked.

So WTF happened to make standard CD's so poor? Why have we been served
up such dross - just for our money to switch to a handier format?????
I must have poured so much away.


When I've done going through my back catalogue I must compare
St.Pepper & Dark Side of the Moon which I have in both CD and LP. Um,
Tubular Bells too.

It's not just me - playing the .ogg files to a friend "all sort of
casual like" he got HOOKED on Pink Floyd's Meddle. It is a completely
whelming experience; these home-digitised recordings just drag you in
and take you over!


Perhaps I should pull out the Leak valve amp now resting in a box in
the garage (a TL/12 plus I think) and revalve it. 9/10 it'll work 1st
time; that tech was solid. Pity about the (mono) Quad speaker I lost
in '78... anyhow, next I'm to record a load more Zappa... my this IS
fun ! Excellent use of time!

satayeen

"satayeen" wrote in message
om

So WTF happened to make standard CD's so poor? Why have we been served
up such dross - just for our money to switch to a handier format?????
I must have poured so much away.

Standard CDs aren't audibly limited by the format, so producers and
engineers have felt free to use the format to record, master and remaster
all kinds of music every way includin loose, all the way from soup to nuts.

On the one hand, your perceptions of the greatness of legacy performances
transcribed from LP to low bitrate lossy-compressed files is no doubt highly
colored by nostalgia. On the other hand, some amazingly bad-sounding drek
has been recorded on CDs, no fault of the medium.

satayeen wrote:

Working all this has been really emotional; the interest, absorption
and sheer involvement of the LP's makes me think of the genius I'd
glimpsed long ago of Nat King Cole / Halle Berry recordings. Present,
emotional, stunning...

er..huh? Halle Berry?


Believe me I really did not think that this was all sitting for years
forgotten in a box somewhere, just waiting to be brought forth.

I am completely and utterly gobsmaked.

So WTF happened to make standard CD's so poor? Why have we been served
up such dross - just for our money to switch to a handier format?????
I must have poured so much away.


Perhaps you simply prefer the EQ and mastering tweeks used on LPs.
Obviously digital per se is OK, since your playback files are
not only converted to digital, but data compressed too.
(it's also possible your data compression method is adding some audible
effect that you find pleasing).

As for what ails modern CDs, it's actually what ails modern mastering,
at least for pop/rock CDs: the tendency to greatly boost the levels and reduce the
dynamic range, e..g, the so called 'loudness wars'. This is a market-driven
phenomenon, not an intrinsic flaw of CD, nor is it present on all
modern CDs.


--

-S.
"We started to see evidence of the professional groupie in the early 80's.
Alarmingly, these girls bore a striking resemblance to Motley Crue." --
David Lee Roth

Hi Mark,

Absolutely. The Pioneer is doing the phono equalisation; I doubt if
the input stages are anything fancy or grand - suits me if they are
using a standard design. Noise, THD & the RIAA curve should be well
under everyones belt by now. The box says it's a Pioneer A109 MOSFET
system; methinks that's the output stages with the mosfets - the amp
has a kind, full sound not dissimilar to valves.

Anyhow I'm more worried by the DAC stages at the PC end. The only
thing I can quote is that with the preamp off the SonicFury itself
gives noise c. -100dB (that's what Krecord reports), amp on gives -75
to -80dB & then with the needle on blank LP track -35db. So the noise
floor is way down there.

Audacity itself can apply the RIAA curve; there is a selection of all
sorts of curves held in table you can apply. But a simple gain stage
from turntable into the SonicFury would by me ..what? Well could do it
with a 9v battery and some nice ultra-low noise transistors I've done
with OC71's... OK, that's not funny and a few bit's 'n bobs. But the
Pioneer does all that for me anyhow.

What else? Really, I need to strip & rebuild the PL12D's barings -
there is 9Hz rumble on recordings with I'm stripping out with a notch
filter (audacity again). The deck has had no oil since ahem, um...
1997 or so when I used up the last of the fine oil which came in the
little plastic oilcan. Should get some more... But today the PL12D's
working well & I don't know if I want to disturb it; the belt must be
20 years old - it's not slipping so fine by me. Perhaps I should spend
a little on the deck...

This is all so much fun I just love it!

satayeen
OK OK I'll get some oil & a belt. Hey did I just guilt myself into
that? Wasn't this about RIAA?


"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ...
P.S.

I do hope you're running the turntable into some sort of RIAA equalized
magnetic phono preamp.

Mark Z.