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#1
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
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#2
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:11:28 GMT, Agent Smith
wrote: wrote in news:1144848657.029497.133730 : Also selected was a recording of the Modesto, Calif., High School band, which did well in competitions of the 1920s and 1930s. Few high school bands were recorded until the late 1940s, making the Modesto school's 1930 version of Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" a rarity. What medium is this on? I assume that wax cylinters were no longer used in the '30's, but what technology replaced that medium? Did they have some way to record directly to a ceramic, 78 rpm platter? Not ceramic - shellac. And yes, there were many direct recordings - they didn't have a choice at first. They recorded mechanically through a horn straight onto a master disc. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#3
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
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#4
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:48:20 GMT, Agent Smith
wrote: (Don Pearce) wrote in : On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:11:28 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: wrote in news:1144848657.029497.133730 : Also selected was a recording of the Modesto, Calif., High School band, which did well in competitions of the 1920s and 1930s. Few high school bands were recorded until the late 1940s, making the Modesto school's 1930 version of Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" a rarity. What medium is this on? I assume that wax cylinters were no longer used in the '30's, but what technology replaced that medium? Did they have some way to record directly to a ceramic, 78 rpm platter? Not ceramic - shellac. And yes, there were many direct recordings - they didn't have a choice at first. They recorded mechanically through a horn straight onto a master disc. Yeah, shellac. I remember that from sometime long ago. They used a gramophone in reverse to make the grooves. Advanced WW II technology replaced shellac, right? Was that magentic, or was there another stage before tapes came in? Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#6
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
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#7
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:59:17 -0500, jakdedert
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:48:20 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: (Don Pearce) wrote in : On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:11:28 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: wrote in news:1144848657.029497.133730 @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: Also selected was a recording of the Modesto, Calif., High School band, which did well in competitions of the 1920s and 1930s. Few high school bands were recorded until the late 1940s, making the Modesto school's 1930 version of Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" a rarity. What medium is this on? I assume that wax cylinters were no longer used in the '30's, but what technology replaced that medium? Did they have some way to record directly to a ceramic, 78 rpm platter? Not ceramic - shellac. And yes, there were many direct recordings - they didn't have a choice at first. They recorded mechanically through a horn straight onto a master disc. Yeah, shellac. I remember that from sometime long ago. They used a gramophone in reverse to make the grooves. Advanced WW II technology replaced shellac, right? Was that magentic, or was there another stage before tapes came in? Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. d Before that there was optical recording, same technology as recording soundtracks on film; modulated light exposing moving film...read back with a light and a photocell. I'd never heard of wire recording being hazardous. I guess Sister William Ann put herself and the rest of my first grade class at great risk. I'm glad I didn't understand the danger to which we were being subjected. Are you sure you got that right? jak 100% d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#8
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
(Don Pearce) wrote in
: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:59:17 -0500, jakdedert wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:48:20 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: (Don Pearce) wrote in : On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:11:28 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: wrote in news:1144848657.029497.133730 @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: Also selected was a recording of the Modesto, Calif., High School band, which did well in competitions of the 1920s and 1930s. Few high school bands were recorded until the late 1940s, making the Modesto school's 1930 version of Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" a rarity. What medium is this on? I assume that wax cylinters were no longer used in the '30's, but what technology replaced that medium? Did they have some way to record directly to a ceramic, 78 rpm platter? Not ceramic - shellac. And yes, there were many direct recordings - they didn't have a choice at first. They recorded mechanically through a horn straight onto a master disc. Yeah, shellac. I remember that from sometime long ago. They used a gramophone in reverse to make the grooves. Advanced WW II technology replaced shellac, right? Was that magentic, or was there another stage before tapes came in? Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. d Before that there was optical recording, same technology as recording soundtracks on film; modulated light exposing moving film...read back with a light and a photocell. I'd never heard of wire recording being hazardous. I guess Sister William Ann put herself and the rest of my first grade class at great risk. I'm glad I didn't understand the danger to which we were being subjected. Are you sure you got that right? jak 100% What was the tension? |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as
the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. I'd never heard of wire recording being hazardous. I guess Sister William Ann put herself and the rest of my first grade class at great risk. I'm glad I didn't understand the danger to which we were being subjected. But Sears and other companies marketed home wire recorders. Did these use lower tension or something? |
#10
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
Don Pearce wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:59:17 -0500, jakdedert wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:48:20 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: (Don Pearce) wrote in : On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:11:28 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: wrote in news:1144848657.029497.133730 @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: Also selected was a recording of the Modesto, Calif., High School band, which did well in competitions of the 1920s and 1930s. Few high school bands were recorded until the late 1940s, making the Modesto school's 1930 version of Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" a rarity. What medium is this on? I assume that wax cylinters were no longer used in the '30's, but what technology replaced that medium? Did they have some way to record directly to a ceramic, 78 rpm platter? Not ceramic - shellac. And yes, there were many direct recordings - they didn't have a choice at first. They recorded mechanically through a horn straight onto a master disc. Yeah, shellac. I remember that from sometime long ago. They used a gramophone in reverse to make the grooves. Advanced WW II technology replaced shellac, right? Was that magentic, or was there another stage before tapes came in? Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. d Before that there was optical recording, same technology as recording soundtracks on film; modulated light exposing moving film...read back with a light and a photocell. I'd never heard of wire recording being hazardous. I guess Sister William Ann put herself and the rest of my first grade class at great risk. I'm glad I didn't understand the danger to which we were being subjected. Are you sure you got that right? jak 100% No offense, but...second opinion(s), anyone? jak d |
#11
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
jakdedert spake thus:
Don Pearce wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:59:17 -0500, jakdedert wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:48:20 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: (Don Pearce) wrote in : On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:11:28 GMT, Agent Smith wrote: wrote in news:1144848657.029497.133730 @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com: Also selected was a recording of the Modesto, Calif., High School band, which did well in competitions of the 1920s and 1930s. Few high school bands were recorded until the late 1940s, making the Modesto school's 1930 version of Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" a rarity. What medium is this on? I assume that wax cylinters were no longer used in the '30's, but what technology replaced that medium? Did they have some way to record directly to a ceramic, 78 rpm platter? Not ceramic - shellac. And yes, there were many direct recordings - they didn't have a choice at first. They recorded mechanically through a horn straight onto a master disc. Yeah, shellac. I remember that from sometime long ago. They used a gramophone in reverse to make the grooves. Advanced WW II technology replaced shellac, right? Was that magentic, or was there another stage before tapes came in? Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Before that there was optical recording, same technology as recording soundtracks on film; modulated light exposing moving film...read back with a light and a photocell. I'd never heard of wire recording being hazardous. I guess Sister William Ann put herself and the rest of my first grade class at great risk. I'm glad I didn't understand the danger to which we were being subjected. Are you sure you got that right? 100% No offense, but...second opinion(s), anyone? Here's one: no offense, but all that "hazardous" stuff is BS. Here's my evidence: I once, as a kid, had a wire recorder in my room at home that I played around with. Never got it to work, but it did run: play, fast forward and rewind. I remember the "magic eye" volume indicator on it--remember those? I'd say there was, at best, modest tension on the wire. Think about it: this is fairly thin stuff, and high tension would have snapped it. It was *maybe* a little more than the tension on a tape recorder. The reason I had one is that one of my friends, who was an electronics-geek buddy, somehow got us into the basement of a hotel in Chicago which had a ton of old electronics stuff in it, going back to the 1930s. (I think one of his relatives was connected with the hotel or with the company that went out of business.) We got to pick what we wanted and take it home. It was an electronics-tinkerer kid's wet dream. -- Pierre, mon ami. Jetez vous une plus de Scientologiste dans le vat de l'acide. - from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled "France recommends dissolving Scientologists" |
#12
Posted to alt.gossip.celebrities,rec.audio.tech,rec.antiques.radio+phono
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
In David Nebenzahl writes:
[about the deadly hazards of wire recorders] Here's one: no offense, but all that "hazardous" stuff is BS. Here's my evidence: I once, as a kid, had a wire recorder in my room at home that I played around with. Never got it to work, but it did run: play, fast forward and rewind. I remember the "magic eye" volume indicator on it--remember those? I'd say there was, at best, modest tension on the wire. Think about it: this is fairly thin stuff, and high tension would have snapped it. It was *maybe* a little more than the tension on a tape recorder. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of the physics of a wire in tension. They seem to believe that once parted, the two ends will continue to whip about the room on their own. Doesn't happen unless there's still stored energy in the wire, such as with a phonograph spring. For an ordinary wire, once you cut it the tension is released and it'll just sit there. If the spools keep turning, well, yeah, the wire ends will flail about. But they're not gonna reach out and bite you. And I would assume recorder wire was very soft steel, with little or no spring constant. -- Tim Mullen ------------------------------------------------------------------ Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc. ------ finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552 ------- |
#13
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
"Don Pearce" wrote ...
Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Quite to the contrary. If you do a casual Google search you will discover that one of the problems frequently mentioned is spools of recording wire that are too loosely packed (because of inadequate tension). The stuff was way too fine to pull any kind of "dangerous" tension on. |
#14
Posted to alt.gossip.celebrities,rec.audio.tech
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
"Agent Smith" wrote ...
(Don Pearce) wrote ... Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Fascinating and scary. Was that the WW II technology? It was during WW2 that the Germans first used mag tape for delayed broadcasting, etc. Alexander M. Pontioff (The AMP of AMPex) brought one of the German machines home with him after the war and started producing equipment first used in the US broadcasting industry (Bing Crosby was one of the first customers). Nothing scary about wire recorders. The wire was much too fine to take much tension without breaking. Inadequate tension was much more a problem when the reels weren't solidly packed and produced uneven wire speed (because they were "rim-drive"). |
#15
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
I always thought Newton said an object in motion tends to continue in
that motion....unless influenced by another body. By that I mean a loose wire if not subject to great tension would continue to spin in that path on that plane, as I regularly observe with Mylar. I wasn't talking about construction workers mind you... |
#16
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
In . com "Steven_" writes:
I always thought Newton said an object in motion tends to continue in that motion....unless influenced by another body. s/body/force/, but yes, you have the general idea. By that I mean a loose wire if not subject to great tension would continue to spin in that path on that plane, as I regularly observe with Mylar. That's because it's still being propelled by the spinning reel motors. If the reels stop turning the wire or mylar won't keep unravelling on its own. And here's the relevant point: If the reels don't stop turning there won't be any extra kinetic energy due to the wire (or mylar) itself. You'll have the force imposed by the reel motor, but that's hardly sufficient to be any danger. -- Tim Mullen ------------------------------------------------------------------ Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc. ------ finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552 ------- |
#17
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:28:52 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote ... Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Quite to the contrary. If you do a casual Google search you will discover that one of the problems frequently mentioned is spools of recording wire that are too loosely packed (because of inadequate tension). The stuff was way too fine to pull any kind of "dangerous" tension on. Here is what I was thinking of - the Blattnerphone. It actually used a steel tape rather than wire, and the machines were huge industrial-sized things. The tape was of similar consistency to razor blades, and when it snapped the ends would fly around dangerously. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#18
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
Richard Crowley wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote ... Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Quite to the contrary. If you do a casual Google search you will discover that one of the problems frequently mentioned is spools of recording wire that are too loosely packed (because of inadequate tension). The stuff was way too fine to pull any kind of "dangerous" tension on. A guy in the UK recently restored his grandfather's c. 1949 *home made* wire recorder. He describes the fascinating process below and you can listen to some of the wire recordings (recorded both live and off - air), they are not too bad: http://www.gentweb.co.uk/wirerecorder.htm Here is the thread about it on rec.antiques.radio+phono: http://tinyurl.com/ku2pf Probably one of the more ubiquitous commercial brands of wire recorder was the Webster - Chicago (later Webcor); you can find them on eBay. C. 1940 or so you could buy wire recorders, for the home luxury market these were usually incorporated into a very expensive radio - phonograph console. Post - war the more "portable" Webster - Chicago and other units became available...IIRC even Sears offered a Silvertone model... [remember when Chicago was the headquarters of the US home electronics industry!?] As others have mentioned, Bing Crosby was a big force behind modern tape recording. He was basically pretty lazy and abhorred doing his shows "live" at broadcast time, he'd rather be out golfing; also the 16" shellac discs that were used for transcription recording could be of poor quality. In 1948 a tape recorder (IIRC it was one of the German magnetophons that was liberated from Radio Luxembourg) was brought in and demonstrated for him, he loved it and thus modern tape recording was born...Ampex was the first producer of recorders, many others followed. ----- There was also something called a "Blattnerphone" in the 30's, this was a recorder that used reels of steel tape for recording; a reel of tape weighed over 15 kilos and only 12 machines were ever made: http://www.acmi.net.au/AIC/BLATTNER_STILLE.html "Historical note on the Marconi-Stille steel tape recording machine. At the beginning of the century Professor Poulsen, one of radio's earliest pioneers, discovered that a magnetic impression could be made on a moving length of wire which remained on the wire even after it had been rolled up. He used his machine to record the Morse code only, that is magnetism `on' and 'off'. In 1924 Dr.Stille in Germany made a machine which could record sounds. The B.B.C. sent two engineers to Berlin, and after a demonstration they offered to buy the machine, but in the end they returned to England empty-handed. In 1931 Mr Louis Blattner managed to buy a machine and bring it to England. He called it the Blattnerphone. By this time Dr. Stille had replaced Poulsen's wire with a flat steel tape 6 mm wide. Each reel of tape could only accommodate 20 minutes of recording. There was a constant and heavy background hiss, due to the inherent quality of the steel tape itself. Stille Inventions Ltd. joined forces with Marconi's Wireless Telegraph Co. Ltd. to produce, with the close co-operation of the B.B.C. Research Department, the Marconi-Stille machine which was put into use in 1934. The tape width was reduced to 3 mm and the thickness to only 0.08 of a millimetre. In order to secure the reproduction of the higher audio frequencies, it was found necessary to run the tape at a rate of 90 metres per minute past the recording and reproducing heads. This meant that the length of tape required for a half-hour's programme was nearly 3 kilometres!" / |
#19
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
"Tim Mullen" wrote in message
In David Nebenzahl writes: [about the deadly hazards of wire recorders] Here's one: no offense, but all that "hazardous" stuff is BS. Here's my evidence: I once, as a kid, had a wire recorder in my room at home that I played around with. Never got it to work, but it did run: play, fast forward and rewind. I remember the "magic eye" volume indicator on it--remember those? I'd say there was, at best, modest tension on the wire. Think about it: this is fairly thin stuff, and high tension would have snapped it. It was *maybe* a little more than the tension on a tape recorder. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of the physics of a wire in tension. They seem to believe that once parted, the two ends will continue to whip about the room on their own. Doesn't happen unless there's still stored energy in the wire, such as with a phonograph spring. For an ordinary wire, once you cut it the tension is released and it'll just sit there. If the spools keep turning, well, yeah, the wire ends will flail about. But they're not gonna reach out and bite you. And I would assume recorder wire was very soft steel, with little or no spring constant. I've had reels of recording in my hands from time to time. Recording wire is often more like stainless steel. It has to be magnetically "hard". Thing is, if the wire breaks the part that whips around has a length that is limted by the distance between the two reels, which is a few inches. It could hurt you and you might even bleed to death if you put your wrists in the right place when the take-up reel was whipping around. In practice the danger to a high school band that was being recorded is so slim as to be totally rediculous. |
#20
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
Don Pearce spake thus:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:28:52 -0700, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote ... Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Quite to the contrary. If you do a casual Google search you will discover that one of the problems frequently mentioned is spools of recording wire that are too loosely packed (because of inadequate tension). The stuff was way too fine to pull any kind of "dangerous" tension on. Here is what I was thinking of - the Blattnerphone. It actually used a steel tape rather than wire, and the machines were huge industrial-sized things. The tape was of similar consistency to razor blades, and when it snapped the ends would fly around dangerously. Yikes--now that thing *is* pretty frightening (for example, see http://www.tfpro.com/lectures/cow_jan_2005.php). Interestingly, the BBC recently had some Blattnerphone reels transcribed using some restored equipment. From that page: The main problems with fine steel tape were the danger aspects ... One was constantly in danger of being cut to ribbons by fast moving razor-blade-thick steel, and the constant problems of tape breakage ... The only way to repair the tape was to weld it together, and all the machines had elaborate electro-welding splicing blocks! -- Pierre, mon ami. Jetez vous une plus de Scientologiste dans le vat de l'acide. - from a posting in alt.religion.scientology titled "France recommends dissolving Scientologists" |
#21
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
Don Pearce wrote:
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:28:52 -0700, "Richard Crowley" wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote ... Before tape there was the wire recorder. It used fine steel wire as the magnetic medium. The big problem was that the stuff was unbelievably dangerous - it ran under high tension - and the recording machine was usually left in a room by itself while it was running. Quite to the contrary. If you do a casual Google search you will discover that one of the problems frequently mentioned is spools of recording wire that are too loosely packed (because of inadequate tension). The stuff was way too fine to pull any kind of "dangerous" tension on. Here is what I was thinking of - the Blattnerphone. It actually used a steel tape rather than wire, and the machines were huge industrial-sized things. The tape was of similar consistency to razor blades, and when it snapped the ends would fly around dangerously. Yeah, it did occur to me that you might have been speaking of some kind of prototype or early version of the technology...before commercial introduction. jak d |
#22
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
In rec.audio.tech jakdedert wrote:
: No offense, but...second opinion(s), anyone? About 15 years ago, I had two working wire recordings. They both worked great, made surprisingly good recordings, and as near as I could tell totally safe to use. Scott |
#23
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Library of Congress adds 50 more famed recordings
wrote in message ... In rec.audio.tech jakdedert wrote: : No offense, but...second opinion(s), anyone? About 15 years ago, I had two working wire recordings. They both worked great, made surprisingly good recordings, and as near as I could tell totally safe to use. Scott I think the confusion about the danger stems from the early German steel tape machines of the mid thirties. They ran at 60 ips and used a very thin steel tape that would cut the crap out of anyone who was near when a tape break occurred. It was probably like band saw blade steel, but much thinner. Stuff can be nasty. This was well before wire, and all recording wire I have ever seen was mild steel, very, very thin, ran at 7 ips or less and probably couldn't hurt you if you tried. Clearly not the same stuff as steel tape. Tom |
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