Hi,

I would love to get some input. I am on the way to build my Ultimate
Dream System for my 1997 Mitsubishi 3000GT. I would liek to replace
the stock 6-speaker system with "the works".

I'm going about it a step at a time, I wanna make sure I get it just
right! The first thing I decided and bought is the Alpine CDA-9815.
It's got everything I was looking for, and looks great! I especially
like the "MediaXpander" feature which "fills in" audio on MP3's whcih
I play tons of.

Ok, so now, I'm moving on to the speakers, and here's where I could
use some advice. I'm impressed with the Infinity Kappa series, i'd use
the Infinity Kappa 60.5cs 6-1/2" Components in the front, and get
another set to replace the stock 6 x 9's since I'm planning on a sub
anyway (so I'd get better sound out of the 6 instead of the 6 x 9).

But, I'm having trouble with trying to choose the speakers, there's
the Inifiny, Boston Acoustics, Eclipse, etc.., Anyone have any
opinions on this?

Anyone feel really strongly on any brands? and if so, why?? anyone do
any installations like this? and if so, any advice on how to make that
decision??
I really want to get the best...well...not the ridicolously
priced..but i figure speakers in the price range of $200 - $300 are
the way to go, anything above this is competition stuff.

I'd love to hear from ya'll!!

thanks,
Naeem in Dallas

"Dream System" is such a subjective term...I'd personally never use Inifinity
or Boston speakers in my car, I don't like either brand. So a setup with Boston
speakers wouldn't fall into the "dream system" categorey for me. In any case...

I'm impressed with the Infinity Kappa series, i'd use
the Infinity Kappa 60.5cs 6-1/2" Components in the front, and get
another set to replace the stock 6 x 9's

Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards, away from
the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go with a set of 2
or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will work). Ideally,
forget the back speakers exist, cut them out of the system all togethor and get
a 3-way system (as opposed to those 3-way speakers) for the front of the car.

But, I'm having trouble with trying to choose the speakers, there's
the Inifiny, Boston Acoustics, Eclipse, etc.., Anyone have any
opinions on this?

EVERYONE has an opinion on this, everyone has a preference, and everyone has a
favorite brand. I think OZ Audios 180 CS components are the best sound:dollar
ratio on the market in terms of sonic quality, but you may hate them,
regardless of their price. And there are plenty of more expensive speakers I
like better than the Oz stuff.

I really want to get the best...well...not the ridicolously
priced..but i figure speakers in the price range of $200 - $300 are
the way to go, anything above this is competition stuff.

Want strong mid-bass? Get Alpine type R components. Want more natural sound
with less coloration? Get the Oz set. Pioneer's REV components are damn good
for such a low price, and JL components aren't bad either. Eclipse makes a very
sharp speaker, but it's also a bright speaker. Pick a price, and get what
sounds best to YOU, you'll end up happier in the long run.

Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards, away
from
the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go with a set
of 2
or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will work).



Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem if
the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID Chameleons in
the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can turn
the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.



Ideally,
forget the back speakers exist, cut them out of the system all togethor
and get
a 3-way system (as opposed to those 3-way speakers) for the front of the
car.


Why? For most people the small difference in sound doesn't justify the
extra expense and installation labor. Not to mention a 3000GT is not a very
big car with lots of room for kick panels.

EVERYONE has an opinion on this, everyone has a preference, and everyone
has a
favorite brand. I think OZ Audios 180 CS components are the best
sound:dollar
ratio on the market in terms of sonic quality, but you may hate them,
regardless of their price. And there are plenty of more expensive speakers
I
like better than the Oz stuff.




I agree with this wholeheartedly. I really like th OZ180-CS's but I also
like the ID Chameleons, Boston Pros, Quart Premium and Q-Lines, Alpine
Type-X's, Focal PK's, CDT HD and Eurosports and so on. Listen to some and
decide for yourself. Just remember, if it's bright in the display board
it's going to be even brighter in the car.


Paul Vina

Paul Vina wrote:

Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards, away
from the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go with a set
of 2 or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will work).


Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem if
the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID Chameleons in
the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can turn
the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.

I agree that the rears are going to be more noticable than the fronts
but not for the reasons stated. I've done an install in a 3000GT before
and because there is almost literally no room for kickpanels, the doors
are the obvious install location for the front. However, because of how
the seats fit into the vehicle, the rears are practically right behind
the driver's and passenger's head. Extremely easy to get too much soudn
from back there. Gotta back it off a TON so that the fronts can even be
heard. Might even try nixing them altogether.

Brandonb

I agree. It's like working on a CRX or a newer VW with the tweeters right
next to your head. I would run the rears as a midbass or cap them off at
3000 or 4000Hz.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...


Paul Vina wrote:

Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards, away
from the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go
with a set
of 2 or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will work).


Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem
if
the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID
Chameleons in
the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can
turn
the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.

I agree that the rears are going to be more noticable than the fronts
but not for the reasons stated. I've done an install in a 3000GT before
and because there is almost literally no room for kickpanels, the doors
are the obvious install location for the front. However, because of how
the seats fit into the vehicle, the rears are practically right behind
the driver's and passenger's head. Extremely easy to get too much soudn
from back there. Gotta back it off a TON so that the fronts can even be
heard. Might even try nixing them altogether.

Brandonb

Hey Guys,

Thnx for the input, a couple of points;

Yes, no doubt about it, the 3000GT cabin space is "comfy", and the
rear speakers are placed pretty close to the ears, and this does raise
a concern I hadn't given too much thought to. However I am planning on
running everything through a 4 channel amp (and will run the sub off a
mono amp), so I will definetly have the flexibilty and control of the
sounstage. But now some of your points have me wondering wether I'm
spending money on nice speaker..that will be turned down so low - that
I'd be wasting my money on 'em!!

Steve, Brandon, you both mention cutting out the rear speakers all
together, hmmm..., so what alternative would you recommend? I wanna
make sure the sound stage stays in the front...but I do want to get a
good fill in the back..not just base! Mind you I've never done any of
this before...so all of your answers are definetly helping me learn
this stuff! - thanks!

Brandon, you mentioned that you've done an install in a 3000GT before.
Can I ask you what was the configuration you put in there? Did you not
put the front speakers in the kickpanel (where the stocks are)?
(That's another darn problem: nothing seems to fit in there, so I'm
gonna have to do a custom job on that!)

thanks,
Naeem


"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:Hhklb.607222$cF.273674@rwcrnsc53...
I agree. It's like working on a CRX or a newer VW with the tweeters right
next to your head. I would run the rears as a midbass or cap them off at
3000 or 4000Hz.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...


Paul Vina wrote:

Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards, away
from the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go
with a set
of 2 or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will work).


Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem
if
the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID
Chameleons in
the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can
turn
the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.

I agree that the rears are going to be more noticable than the fronts
but not for the reasons stated. I've done an install in a 3000GT before
and because there is almost literally no room for kickpanels, the doors
are the obvious install location for the front. However, because of how
the seats fit into the vehicle, the rears are practically right behind
the driver's and passenger's head. Extremely easy to get too much soudn
from back there. Gotta back it off a TON so that the fronts can even be
heard. Might even try nixing them altogether.

Brandonb

I think some 8" midbasses would be awesome in that location. Shouldn't
be too hard to fit either.

Brandonb


Paul Vina wrote:

I agree. It's like working on a CRX or a newer VW with the tweeters right
next to your head. I would run the rears as a midbass or cap them off at
3000 or 4000Hz.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...


Paul Vina wrote:


Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards, away

from the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go

with a set

of 2 or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will work).


Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem

if

the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID

Chameleons in

the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can

turn

the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.

I agree that the rears are going to be more noticable than the fronts
but not for the reasons stated. I've done an install in a 3000GT before
and because there is almost literally no room for kickpanels, the doors
are the obvious install location for the front. However, because of how
the seats fit into the vehicle, the rears are practically right behind
the driver's and passenger's head. Extremely easy to get too much soudn
from back there. Gotta back it off a TON so that the fronts can even be
heard. Might even try nixing them altogether.

Brandonb

Inline...



Naeem wrote:

Yes, no doubt about it, the 3000GT cabin space is "comfy",

Thats a bit of an understatement.

But now some of your points have me wondering wether I'm
spending money on nice speaker..that will be turned down so low - that
I'd be wasting my money on 'em!!

I don't think so. The point I was making was that they be turned down so
as not to overpwoer the fronts. A decent aftermarket speaker still
sounds better then the stock ones IMO. At least in the 3000GT I
installed in.

Steve, Brandon, you both mention cutting out the rear speakers all
together, hmmm..., so what alternative would you recommend? I wanna
make sure the sound stage stays in the front...but I do want to get a
good fill in the back..not just base! Mind you I've never done any of
this before...so all of your answers are definetly helping me learn
this stuff! - thanks!

An alternative would be putting some 6 or 8" midbasses in there instead
of the 6x9s or the 6.5" components. The Kicker RS midbasses are awesome
in this regard. Give them a listen and you'll hear what I mean. If I
remember correctly there's actually quite a bit of room in there for the
speakers, so you should be able to do slight modification to fit the 8"
in there. Should round off the midbass area quite nicely since it'll be
difficult to get a good midbass response from the front.

Brandon, you mentioned that you've done an install in a 3000GT before.
Can I ask you what was the configuration you put in there? Did you not
put the front speakers in the kickpanel (where the stocks are)?
(That's another darn problem: nothing seems to fit in there, so I'm
gonna have to do a custom job on that!)

Sure. It was a set of Pioneer 6.5s up front in the lower front doors.
Stock location on the 94. I'm pretty sure your 97 is the same. Really
shallow speakers is the key. You might try some neodymium-magnet
speakers. The legwells were so narrow that even if you managed to fit
kickpanels down there, they would be horribly misdirected. That is, if
you're still planning on putting legs in there. A custom touch would be
building out the door a tad to aim them better. A Pioneer 8000? HU and a
9000? DEQ or something like that. Pretty much Pioneer's top of the line
stuff back then. Pioneer 4-way 6x9s in the rear. 3-5 12" Kicker
competition subs. Yes, 5 12s in the hatch can be done with unobstructed
visibility. The plastic panel on the underside of the hatch tends to
protest though with some plastic breaking do to the force if you're not
carefull. (Still have the box I believe since its not used anymore) The
subs were driven by a Kicker RS150? amp I think... not sure on model
number. It was one of the old powerhouses. Like 500+ watts class AB. It
was about 2.5 feet long or so. This was all about 4 to 5 years ago.

If I had to do it all over in this day and age, I'd go with some
components up front with the door built out a bit, possibly even move
the tweeters up near the base of the A-pillar. Some 8" midbasses in the
rear 6x9 spots... say maybe low-pass at 2000-4000 or so Hz. A good
4-channel amp with plenty of power per channel to drive them all. Or
maybe a 6-channel and bi-amp the fronts with an active 4- to 6-channel
crossover like the Directed 204. A mono-block class D amp to drive 2 or
3 10" (maybe 12") subs in the rear hatch against the very back kinda
steeply angled to face the front but still not facing up (this is all
hidden under the hatch btw for security purposes). A good HU probably
capable of MP3s, like the Alpine 9815, maybe go with an Eclipse or
Pioneer. That *should* do pretty nicely. I can try to see if any pics
still exist. I think some were taken at the time but not sure.


thanks,
Naeem

No prob,

Brandonb

"Naeem" wrote in message
om...
Hey Guys,

Thnx for the input, a couple of points;

Yes, no doubt about it, the 3000GT cabin space is "comfy", and the
rear speakers are placed pretty close to the ears, and this does raise
a concern I hadn't given too much thought to. However I am planning on
running everything through a 4 channel amp (and will run the sub off a
mono amp), so I will definetly have the flexibilty and control of the
sounstage. But now some of your points have me wondering wether I'm
spending money on nice speaker..that will be turned down so low - that
I'd be wasting my money on 'em!!


If you're going to do video I would keep some speakers in the rear. If not,
go ahead and get rid of them or run the stock speakers. Definitely don't
spend any money on them if it's only for music.


Steve, Brandon, you both mention cutting out the rear speakers all
together, hmmm..., so what alternative would you recommend? I wanna
make sure the sound stage stays in the front...but I do want to get a
good fill in the back..not just base! Mind you I've never done any of
this before...so all of your answers are definetly helping me learn
this stuff! - thanks!



You can still have a solid front stage with rear speakers, it's just a LOT
easier to do it with no speakers in the back.



Brandon, you mentioned that you've done an install in a 3000GT before.
Can I ask you what was the configuration you put in there? Did you not
put the front speakers in the kickpanel (where the stocks are)?
(That's another darn problem: nothing seems to fit in there, so I'm
gonna have to do a custom job on that!)


I can't speak for Brandon, but the last one I did used 5.25" Soundstream
components in the front and a pair or Soundstream SS8's in a VERY small
bandpass in the elevated area just behind the rear seats at the front of the
hatch. You can also do a 10 or 12 in the spare tire well. 6.5's will fit
easily in the front doors as well.


Paul Vina

They have a 6x9 back there if I'm not mistaken so an 8' should be an easy
fit.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...
I think some 8" midbasses would be awesome in that location. Shouldn't
be too hard to fit either.

Brandonb


Paul Vina wrote:

I agree. It's like working on a CRX or a newer VW with the tweeters
right
next to your head. I would run the rears as a midbass or cap them off
at
3000 or 4000Hz.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...


Paul Vina wrote:


Bad idea. Rear components tend to want to pull the sound backwards,
away

from the cabin where you want it. If you must have rear speakers, go

with a set

of 2 or 3-way speakers and wire them in for fill sound (6x9s will
work).


Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem

if

the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID

Chameleons in

the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can

turn

the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.

I agree that the rears are going to be more noticable than the fronts
but not for the reasons stated. I've done an install in a 3000GT before
and because there is almost literally no room for kickpanels, the doors
are the obvious install location for the front. However, because of how
the seats fit into the vehicle, the rears are practically right behind
the driver's and passenger's head. Extremely easy to get too much soudn
from back there. Gotta back it off a TON so that the fronts can even be
heard. Might even try nixing them altogether.

Brandonb

Not any more than a 2,3 or 4-way coax would. It will only be a problem if
the level is too high. I've done a number of systems using ID Chameleons in
the rear and none of them pulled to the rear. Just make sure you can turn
the rear speakers down with either the fader or amp gains.

I was always told that the "rear pull" problem is more exagerated with
components than it is with two or 3-way speakers. But as I've never personally
done an install, I'll have to take your word for it. In any case, it's a small
car, rear sound could be easily handled with high-quality 6x9 speakers. Or the
rear speakers could be cut out, leaveing more money in the owner's pocket for
better quality front components.

Why? For most people the small difference in sound doesn't justify the
extra expense and installation labor. Not to mention a 3000GT is not a very
big car with lots of room for kick panels.


This was my motivation. In a small car such as the 3000GT, a properly staged
3-way system could be awesome.

However I am planning on
running everything through a 4 channel amp (and will run the sub off a
mono amp)

If you cut out the rears, the fronts can be run on a 2 channel amp. This may
allow you to go for a more powerful unit, and give you more "headroom".

But now some of your points have me wondering wether I'm
spending money on nice speaker..that will be turned down so low - that
I'd be wasting my money on 'em!!

Tuning will be difficult with the rears so close to your ears. They'd have to
be turned way down, and it may negate having them there. In your price bracket,
you could go with Alpine's Type R components in the front. They have good
detail and great mid-bass. Those alone on a good amp making 60-70 watts per
channel may satisfy you.

Steve, Brandon, you both mention cutting out the rear speakers all
together, hmmm..., so what alternative would you recommend?

I initially suggested a 3-way system. But Paul feels that a kickpanel
installation will be difficult and costly in your car. I can't refute this,
although it seems as if a competant installer could make it work. OTOH, if your
car is a stick shift, where room for the clutch pedal is an issue, than it
truly would be more trouble than it is worth, at least based on what we know
about your preferences. I'd suggest cutting out the rears, and using a set of
front components like Alpine's Type Rs. They have good high end detail and
great mid-bass. Alone on a competent amp, they'll probably produce exactly the
kind of sound you're looking for.

I wanna
make sure the sound stage stays in the front...but I do want to get a
good fill in the back

Why? Unless you constantly have people in the back who you are concerned about,
the rear fill is really useless, an unneccesary added expense.

This was my motivation. In a small car such as the 3000GT, a properly
staged
3-way system could be awesome.


It could be, but damn near impossible to implement since there isn't enough
room in the kick panels for a mid/tweet combo unless you don't want to put
your legs in there.


Paul Vina

Yes. Ironically a VERY un- user-friendly car despite how nice a car it is.

Brandonb


Paul Vina wrote:

This was my motivation. In a small car such as the 3000GT, a properly

staged

3-way system could be awesome.



It could be, but damn near impossible to implement since there isn't enough
room in the kick panels for a mid/tweet combo unless you don't want to put
your legs in there.


Paul Vina

I'm tellin' ya!. A freakin' MR2 is easier to work on.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...
Yes. Ironically a VERY un- user-friendly car despite how nice a car it is.

Brandonb


Paul Vina wrote:

This was my motivation. In a small car such as the 3000GT, a properly

staged

3-way system could be awesome.



It could be, but damn near impossible to implement since there isn't
enough
room in the kick panels for a mid/tweet combo unless you don't want to
put
your legs in there.


Paul Vina

The old style or the new? I've got some experience with the older
ones too Yes they are easier to work on. Fun little buggers too. Same
friend actually...obsessed with 80's and 90's sports cars. He's had 2
Porsche 944s, 2 Toyota MR2s, a 79 Corvette, a Mitsubishi 3000GT, and
still has a 94 Trans Am. Thats aside from the Bronco, Scottsdale Blazer
(both lifted for mudding), a 92 Chevy C1500 customized truck, a 94 Ford
Explorer, a 96 Blazer, and a 2002 Durango.

And thats just since I've known him for the past 5 years. He says he had
more before that. He's only 23 also. The boy's family goes through a LOT
of cars. The city actually threatened to make them get a dealer license
because they bought and sold so many cars. It got up to like 9 in one year.

Brandonb
-Who work(s)(ed) at the same companies doing pretty much the same thing
and getting paid the same and has only ever had 3 cars and still has 2
of them since he was 16.


Paul Vina wrote:

I'm tellin' ya!. A freakin' MR2 is easier to work on.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...

Yes. Ironically a VERY un- user-friendly car despite how nice a car it is.

Brandonb


Paul Vina wrote:


This was my motivation. In a small car such as the 3000GT, a properly

staged


3-way system could be awesome.



It could be, but damn near impossible to implement since there isn't

enough

room in the kick panels for a mid/tweet combo unless you don't want to

put

your legs in there.


Paul Vina

Both really, but you wouldn't catch me dead in a Mrs.2. The second gen MR2
turbos were the best.

I loved my old Merkur XR4Ti until my wife spun it into a ditch. That car
was the most fun of any car I've ever owned.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...
The old style or the new? I've got some experience with the older
ones too Yes they are easier to work on. Fun little buggers too. Same
friend actually...obsessed with 80's and 90's sports cars. He's had 2
Porsche 944s, 2 Toyota MR2s, a 79 Corvette, a Mitsubishi 3000GT, and
still has a 94 Trans Am. Thats aside from the Bronco, Scottsdale Blazer
(both lifted for mudding), a 92 Chevy C1500 customized truck, a 94 Ford
Explorer, a 96 Blazer, and a 2002 Durango.

And thats just since I've known him for the past 5 years. He says he had
more before that. He's only 23 also. The boy's family goes through a LOT
of cars. The city actually threatened to make them get a dealer license
because they bought and sold so many cars. It got up to like 9 in one
year.

Brandonb
-Who work(s)(ed) at the same companies doing pretty much the same thing
and getting paid the same and has only ever had 3 cars and still has 2
of them since he was 16.


Paul Vina wrote:

I'm tellin' ya!. A freakin' MR2 is easier to work on.


Paul Vina



"Brandon Buckner" wrote in message
...

Yes. Ironically a VERY un- user-friendly car despite how nice a car it
is.

Brandonb


Paul Vina wrote:


This was my motivation. In a small car such as the 3000GT, a properly

staged


3-way system could be awesome.



It could be, but damn near impossible to implement since there isn't

enough

room in the kick panels for a mid/tweet combo unless you don't want to

put

your legs in there.


Paul Vina

Both really, but you wouldn't catch me dead in a Mrs.2. The second gen MR2
turbos were the best.

Third Gen. is a fun car to drive. But it lacks any real power, the same problem
the last generation Celica faced. The MKII was an awesome car, but it kind of
dumb footedly walked the line between being underpowered (N/A) and overpowered
(Turbo). The new Celica GT-S is the most balanced car Toyota has produced for
the North American market in quite some time. Although test driving it aganist
my car (2002 VW GTi 1.8T) and the Acura RSX Type S, and even it feels a little
limp wristed.

I loved my old Merkur XR4Ti until my wife spun it into a ditch. That car
was the most fun of any car I've ever owned.

If you're the type to do it, you can find one cheap on the used market and do a
full rebuild on the engine and transmission. A friend's dad owned one and did
just that, tuning it up as he went. Fun car. Ford sold it in Europe as the
Sierra, it came with either an engine less powerful than what our version had,
the same engine our version had, or in Sierra Cosworth trim with a Cosworth
tuned engine and tweaked suspension. I hear it's a riot.

If you're the type to do it, you can find one cheap on the used market and
do a
full rebuild on the engine and transmission. A friend's dad owned one and
did
just that, tuning it up as he went. Fun car. Ford sold it in Europe as the
Sierra, it came with either an engine less powerful than what our version
had,
the same engine our version had, or in Sierra Cosworth trim with a
Cosworth
tuned engine and tweaked suspension. I hear it's a riot.



That's what turned me onto them. My mom is English and my grandparents had
a couple of Sierras. I still have an old Turbo magazine with an XR with a
300ZX twin turbo motor. NAHSE!! A new one will probably be my next project.


Paul Vina

I still have an old Turbo magazine with an XR with a
300ZX twin turbo motor.

That's overkill, and crude IMHO. Building up the stock engine, or buying an
English-spec Sierra Cosworth motor and starting there is where it's at. The
same guy who built up that Merkur is a collector of what he calls "oddball
American cars". He's also had an SVO Mustang with the Turbocharged 4 cylinder,
a Thunderbird Supercoupe with the Supercharged 3.8 V6, a Buick Grand National,
and an early 80's Chevrolet Monte Carlo powered by the same Turbo V6 that's in
the GN. He wants to add a Typhoon and a couple of other cars to the list, but
his wife is getting a bit sick of the old buy, build, drive, and re-sell bit.

The Mustang SVO and T-Bird SC of the same years were the exact same car as
the XR4Ti with a different body an the Fords (US) had stronger transmissions
but they were the same cars.
My wife is like that about my changing audio gear all the time. Funny that
the stuff I'm selling now is because *she* doesn't like it.


Paul Vina


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I still have an old Turbo magazine with an XR with a
300ZX twin turbo motor.

That's overkill, and crude IMHO. Building up the stock engine, or buying
an
English-spec Sierra Cosworth motor and starting there is where it's at.
The
same guy who built up that Merkur is a collector of what he calls "oddball
American cars". He's also had an SVO Mustang with the Turbocharged 4
cylinder,
a Thunderbird Supercoupe with the Supercharged 3.8 V6, a Buick Grand
National,
and an early 80's Chevrolet Monte Carlo powered by the same Turbo V6
that's in
the GN. He wants to add a Typhoon and a couple of other cars to the list,
but
his wife is getting a bit sick of the old buy, build, drive, and re-sell
bit.