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#1
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
"Wessel Dirksen" wrote ...
I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? Technical answer: no. Psychological answer: do YOU hear a difference? :-) |
#2
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? Wessel Alignment with the earth's magnetic field will have a greater effect. ;-) |
#3
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? Wessel Alignment with the earth's magnetic field will have a greater effect. ;-) |
#4
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? Wessel Alignment with the earth's magnetic field will have a greater effect. ;-) |
#5
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? Wessel Alignment with the earth's magnetic field will have a greater effect. ;-) |
#6
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:01:26 +0100, "Wessel Dirksen"
wrote: Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? --- If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. -- John Fields |
#7
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:01:26 +0100, "Wessel Dirksen"
wrote: Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? --- If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. -- John Fields |
#8
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:01:26 +0100, "Wessel Dirksen"
wrote: Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? --- If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. -- John Fields |
#9
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:01:26 +0100, "Wessel Dirksen"
wrote: Hello All, I've noticed that this forum has alot of speaker buffs so I figure I'll send this one out. I always tend to have the current flow from inside to outside but to be honest I could never hear the difference in how you orient the inductors. Any ideas or opinions? --- If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. -- John Fields |
#10
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
John Fields wrote:
If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. 87 degrees sounds much sweeter in the highs .... geoff |
#11
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
John Fields wrote:
If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. 87 degrees sounds much sweeter in the highs .... geoff |
#12
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
John Fields wrote:
If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. 87 degrees sounds much sweeter in the highs .... geoff |
#13
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
John Fields wrote:
If the inductors are non-toroidal or not wound in cup cores they will exhibit an external magnetic field which can couple into other nearby inductors if the magnetic fields are in alignment. In order to keep this from happening, it is best to separate the inductors physically as far as possible and to keep their magnetic fields at 90° to each other. 87 degrees sounds much sweeter in the highs .... geoff |
#14
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
"CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. snip |
#15
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
"CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. snip |
#16
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
"CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. snip |
#17
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Wessel Dirksen wrote:
"CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. snip |
#18
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
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#19
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
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#21
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
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#22
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
"citronzx" wrote ...
I like your posts on 'audiophile' hogwash, keep it up! I had roommates using a green marker on their cds and trying to hear a difference. I thought that they were nuts; I had never heard of this story. Long story shot, they believed that they could hear a difference and were not interested in learning about things like studies showing very poor hearing 'memory' in people. These were not audiophile types, just regular music listeners. If you have anymore stories like this that hasn't yet been turned into a product then let's get together and make ourselves a fortune. My buddies and I joked for years about selling a line of gold-plated fuses. But then someone actually came out with them and they are making MY fortune from gullible customers. |
#23
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
"citronzx" wrote ...
I like your posts on 'audiophile' hogwash, keep it up! I had roommates using a green marker on their cds and trying to hear a difference. I thought that they were nuts; I had never heard of this story. Long story shot, they believed that they could hear a difference and were not interested in learning about things like studies showing very poor hearing 'memory' in people. These were not audiophile types, just regular music listeners. If you have anymore stories like this that hasn't yet been turned into a product then let's get together and make ourselves a fortune. My buddies and I joked for years about selling a line of gold-plated fuses. But then someone actually came out with them and they are making MY fortune from gullible customers. |
#24
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
"citronzx" wrote ...
I like your posts on 'audiophile' hogwash, keep it up! I had roommates using a green marker on their cds and trying to hear a difference. I thought that they were nuts; I had never heard of this story. Long story shot, they believed that they could hear a difference and were not interested in learning about things like studies showing very poor hearing 'memory' in people. These were not audiophile types, just regular music listeners. If you have anymore stories like this that hasn't yet been turned into a product then let's get together and make ourselves a fortune. My buddies and I joked for years about selling a line of gold-plated fuses. But then someone actually came out with them and they are making MY fortune from gullible customers. |
#25
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
"citronzx" wrote ...
I like your posts on 'audiophile' hogwash, keep it up! I had roommates using a green marker on their cds and trying to hear a difference. I thought that they were nuts; I had never heard of this story. Long story shot, they believed that they could hear a difference and were not interested in learning about things like studies showing very poor hearing 'memory' in people. These were not audiophile types, just regular music listeners. If you have anymore stories like this that hasn't yet been turned into a product then let's get together and make ourselves a fortune. My buddies and I joked for years about selling a line of gold-plated fuses. But then someone actually came out with them and they are making MY fortune from gullible customers. |
#26
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Svante wrote:
(Dick Pierce) wrote in message Someone hears someone who mentions something about a friend uncle Some dude thought up a way of extracting more dosh from vinyl fanatics. He told them their thorn styllii were useless, and sold them DIAMOND ones. ;-) geoff Diamond-lens lasers, anybody ? |
#27
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Svante wrote:
(Dick Pierce) wrote in message Someone hears someone who mentions something about a friend uncle Some dude thought up a way of extracting more dosh from vinyl fanatics. He told them their thorn styllii were useless, and sold them DIAMOND ones. ;-) geoff Diamond-lens lasers, anybody ? |
#28
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Svante wrote:
(Dick Pierce) wrote in message Someone hears someone who mentions something about a friend uncle Some dude thought up a way of extracting more dosh from vinyl fanatics. He told them their thorn styllii were useless, and sold them DIAMOND ones. ;-) geoff Diamond-lens lasers, anybody ? |
#29
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Svante wrote:
(Dick Pierce) wrote in message Someone hears someone who mentions something about a friend uncle Some dude thought up a way of extracting more dosh from vinyl fanatics. He told them their thorn styllii were useless, and sold them DIAMOND ones. ;-) geoff Diamond-lens lasers, anybody ? |
#30
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Or cable break in.
johnc, the ex-pat US Army, Ret. Saudi Arabia ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#31
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Or cable break in.
johnc, the ex-pat US Army, Ret. Saudi Arabia ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#32
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Or cable break in.
johnc, the ex-pat US Army, Ret. Saudi Arabia ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#33
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
Or cable break in.
johnc, the ex-pat US Army, Ret. Saudi Arabia ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#34
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
CJT wrote in message ...
Wessel Dirksen wrote: "CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. Hmm. Pardon me if I am drifting off topic here, but I and a collegue of mine recently noticed a quite noticeable deviance from the Z=wL in the impedance of inductors in the HF range. These inductors were made of standard ~0.3mm (I'll have to check this) wires and no iron core (for loudspeaker crossovers). Any explanation to this, apart from skin? http://www.tolvan.com/coil.gif Note that I don't claim big *audible* effects from this in most applications, though. |
#35
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
CJT wrote in message ...
Wessel Dirksen wrote: "CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. Hmm. Pardon me if I am drifting off topic here, but I and a collegue of mine recently noticed a quite noticeable deviance from the Z=wL in the impedance of inductors in the HF range. These inductors were made of standard ~0.3mm (I'll have to check this) wires and no iron core (for loudspeaker crossovers). Any explanation to this, apart from skin? http://www.tolvan.com/coil.gif Note that I don't claim big *audible* effects from this in most applications, though. |
#36
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
CJT wrote in message ...
Wessel Dirksen wrote: "CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. Hmm. Pardon me if I am drifting off topic here, but I and a collegue of mine recently noticed a quite noticeable deviance from the Z=wL in the impedance of inductors in the HF range. These inductors were made of standard ~0.3mm (I'll have to check this) wires and no iron core (for loudspeaker crossovers). Any explanation to this, apart from skin? http://www.tolvan.com/coil.gif Note that I don't claim big *audible* effects from this in most applications, though. |
#37
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
CJT wrote in message ...
Wessel Dirksen wrote: "CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. Hmm. Pardon me if I am drifting off topic here, but I and a collegue of mine recently noticed a quite noticeable deviance from the Z=wL in the impedance of inductors in the HF range. These inductors were made of standard ~0.3mm (I'll have to check this) wires and no iron core (for loudspeaker crossovers). Any explanation to this, apart from skin? http://www.tolvan.com/coil.gif Note that I don't claim big *audible* effects from this in most applications, though. |
#39
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
On 11 Feb 2004 08:11:15 -0800, (Svante)
wrote: CJT wrote in message ... Wessel Dirksen wrote: "CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. Hmm. Pardon me if I am drifting off topic here, but I and a collegue of mine recently noticed a quite noticeable deviance from the Z=wL in the impedance of inductors in the HF range. These inductors were made of standard ~0.3mm (I'll have to check this) wires and no iron core (for loudspeaker crossovers). Any explanation to this, apart from skin? http://www.tolvan.com/coil.gif Note that I don't claim big *audible* effects from this in most applications, though. --- Probably because Z does _not_ equal wL, inductive reactance (Xl) does. That is, Xl = wL = 2pi*f*L In a series circuit containing resistance, inductance, and capacitance, the impedance (Z) of the circuit will be equal to the square root of the sums of the squares of the resistance and the square of the difference between the inductive and capacitive reactance. That is, Z = sqrt (R² + (Xl - Xc)²) Of course, in a circuit containing only inductance, the inductive reactance and impedance will be equal. However, such a scenario is impossible and the effects of capacitance and resistance must always be considered if accuracy is important. Looking at just the inductor, since there is a voltage difference between turns and the turns are dielectrically isolated from each other, that gives rise to an inherent capacitance and since there is resistance in the wire used to wind the inductor, that's also part of the inductor and can't be separated from it. There are winding techniques used to minimize the capacitance (which appears to be in _parallel_ with the inductance) but in the case of coils wound for loudspeaker crossovers, I'd seriously doubt whether the slightest consideration was given to them. I suspect the resistance of the wire is what's causing the deviation from "ideal" inductance, and I also suspect that skin effect has _nothing_ to do with it since that's an effect which starts to become significant at radio frequencies. -- John Fields |
#40
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Do loudspeaker inductors have audible polarity?
On 11 Feb 2004 08:11:15 -0800, (Svante)
wrote: CJT wrote in message ... Wessel Dirksen wrote: "CJT" wrote in message ... snip Nobody commented on my observation earlier in the thread that the Earth's magnetic field could bias the hysteresis curve in certain orientations. g I personally thought you were making a joke. I was. But that sort of thing is similar to other audiophile legends. Skin effect comes to mind; nobody denies its existence, but to claim an audible effect exceeds credibility. Hmm. Pardon me if I am drifting off topic here, but I and a collegue of mine recently noticed a quite noticeable deviance from the Z=wL in the impedance of inductors in the HF range. These inductors were made of standard ~0.3mm (I'll have to check this) wires and no iron core (for loudspeaker crossovers). Any explanation to this, apart from skin? http://www.tolvan.com/coil.gif Note that I don't claim big *audible* effects from this in most applications, though. --- Probably because Z does _not_ equal wL, inductive reactance (Xl) does. That is, Xl = wL = 2pi*f*L In a series circuit containing resistance, inductance, and capacitance, the impedance (Z) of the circuit will be equal to the square root of the sums of the squares of the resistance and the square of the difference between the inductive and capacitive reactance. That is, Z = sqrt (R² + (Xl - Xc)²) Of course, in a circuit containing only inductance, the inductive reactance and impedance will be equal. However, such a scenario is impossible and the effects of capacitance and resistance must always be considered if accuracy is important. Looking at just the inductor, since there is a voltage difference between turns and the turns are dielectrically isolated from each other, that gives rise to an inherent capacitance and since there is resistance in the wire used to wind the inductor, that's also part of the inductor and can't be separated from it. There are winding techniques used to minimize the capacitance (which appears to be in _parallel_ with the inductance) but in the case of coils wound for loudspeaker crossovers, I'd seriously doubt whether the slightest consideration was given to them. I suspect the resistance of the wire is what's causing the deviation from "ideal" inductance, and I also suspect that skin effect has _nothing_ to do with it since that's an effect which starts to become significant at radio frequencies. -- John Fields |
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