[cporro]

thought i'd review my mics and do a paring down and ad some more
useful ones. i'm most of the way through dave moultin's golden ears
and starting to hear things differently.

a few things. i'm in a so so room. too much 200hz i think. etf
confirmed some of this at my listening position. i try and mic close
if possible to avoid "the box". i'm on the way to ordering some
broadband bass absorbers from GIC acoustics. but i never expect the
room to sound great.

here is what i record: a drum kit, acoustic guitars, electric (strat
w/ fender twin reverb), vocals.

the mics i have:
4 sm57s, i like these
akg112d, seems to work fine for kick. wish i could add more 10k, but
not pressing.
rodes nt1a, sounds harsh to me
sm81 ditto for harsh
akgc2000b ditto harsh
sm7 not sure really, guess i need to use it more.

so i'm wondering if at this point it might make sense to get rid of
certain mics, fill areas where i'm deficient, and improve on some of
that harshness. i already want to try out another ev20. the first time
round i'm not sure my ears where there.

thanks for any ideas.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 20, 3:34 am, cporro wrote:

so i'm wondering if at this point it might make sense to get rid of
certain mics, fill areas where i'm deficient, and improve on some of
that harshness.

No, no, no!!!! Never get rid of a mic. The really fine ones (which you
don't have any of yet) will always cost more should you ever want one
again, and the really inexpensive ones, relatively speaking, (which
you have several of) aren't worth enough if you sell them. Some day
you'll WANT to put those four SM57s on a drum kit.

The AKG C2000 is the only real loser in the group (unless it's a
C2000B which is quite a different mic and not so horrible) but since
everybody knows that, selling it won't you get you anything
significantly better.

[Scott Dorsey]

cporro wrote:

here is what i record: a drum kit, acoustic guitars, electric (strat
w/ fender twin reverb), vocals.

the mics i have:
4 sm57s, i like these
akg112d, seems to work fine for kick. wish i could add more 10k, but
not pressing.
rodes nt1a, sounds harsh to me
sm81 ditto for harsh
akgc2000b ditto harsh
sm7 not sure really, guess i need to use it more.

so i'm wondering if at this point it might make sense to get rid of
certain mics, fill areas where i'm deficient, and improve on some of
that harshness. i already want to try out another ev20. the first time
round i'm not sure my ears where there.

The SM-81 can be modified to make it less harsh. I did an article in
the January 2007 issue of Recording on doing that. It doesn't cost
anything but your time and it smooths the top end.

I don't think the C2000 is really all that useful a mike.

The AKG D112 is a mike with a very dramatic coloration. It gives you
only one drum sound, and you can't EQ it much to get anything else. If
you like it, use it. Otherwise, use the SM7 instead and see if you like
that more.

The problem is that the mikes that you probably want to get rid of,
like the C2000 and maybe the NT1A, don't really have much resale value.
So you might as well keep them just in case.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[cporro]

ok so hold them.

any suggestions on what to add? besides the ev20.

i'll check out your article scott

thanks all.

[RD Jones]

On Mar 20, 3:34*am, cporro wrote:

the mics i have:
4 sm57s, i like these
akg112d, seems to work fine for kick. wish i could add more 10k, but
not pressing.
rodes nt1a, sounds harsh to me
sm81 ditto for harsh
akgc2000b ditto harsh
sm7 not sure really, guess i need to use it more.

Interesting that all your condensors are described as "harsh".
They may all in fact qualify for the harsh end of the spectrum,
but ...
Maybe something downline that has trouble with brighter mics ?

so i'm wondering if at this point it might make sense to get rid of
certain mics, fill areas where i'm deficient, and improve on some of
that harshness. i already want to try out another ev20. the first time
round i'm not sure my ears where there.

Unless you're getting out of the music/recording business I don't ever
recommend unloading mics unless there's some very pressing need.
Even the lowly C2000B can be put to use. It _IS_ a small diaphram
despite it's appearance.

If you mean RE20 or PL20, yes everybody needs at least one.

I don't anything but cardiod patterns so an omni, fig8, or hyper
makes sense.

Try a pair of NT5's, or C480s.


rd

[Fletch]

cporro wrote:
ok so hold them.

any suggestions on what to add? besides the ev20.

i'll check out your article scott

thanks all.

You could go with a pair of good Omnis, which I see you lack.

You could go with a good LDC multipattern, like the KM44 by Shure -- get
a pair, you never know when a stereo setup will be necessary.

You do need the Senn MD441, a pair of them for piano, guitar, voice, etc.

Something in a Neumann, like a TLM103 or a U87ai, perhaps a U89i.

Perhaps the Schoeps CMC641; the alternative: Josephson C42 Stereo pair
would be very nice.

You begin to get the idea.

Then a couple good preamps that will make all of these sound fabulous
wouldn't hurt either. Great River, Millennia, Daking and the like.

--Fletch

[cporro]

i don't know if it's down stream on the harsh highs. the only preamps
i use are the RNP and the ones in my fireface 800. they are both
decent preamps, right?

as far as the other patterns... at this point i am trying to avoid
including the room sound. but maybe you're saying omnis just have a
different sound.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 20, 7:44*pm, cporro wrote:
i don't know if it's down stream on the harsh highs. the only preamps
i use are the RNP and the ones in my fireface 800. they are both
decent preamps, right?

as far as the other patterns... at this point i am trying to avoid
including the room sound. but maybe you're saying omnis just have a
different sound.

You can also get real close with omnis without the resultant boom of
cardioids. The closer you get, the less room sound will be apparent.
Inverse square law can be your friend. Your preamps are fine. You may
be missing a little from the top echelon but you are in decent shape
as it is until you want to spend $$$$. Fletch listed a good collection
of mics from which to consider, though I would have suggested
Microtech Gefells instead of the Neumanns. Look at thr M930s. Everyone
should have at least one MD441 in their collection. Once you hear it
through your RNP you will understand why.

bobs

BS Studios / SoundSmith Labs
we organize chaos

[RD Jones]

On Mar 20, 10:44*pm, cporro wrote:
i don't know if it's down stream on the harsh highs. the only preamps
i use are the RNP and the ones in my fireface 800. they are both
decent preamps, right?

Yes.

as far as the other patterns... at this point i am trying to avoid
including the room sound. but maybe you're saying omnis just have a
different sound.

Fig 8 can minimize some room issues, and hypers will but to
a lesser degree.

rd

[RD Jones]

On Mar 20, 10:57 pm, wrote:
You can also get real close with omnis without the resultant boom of
cardioids. The closer you get, the less room sound will be apparent.
Inverse square law can be your friend. Your preamps are fine. You may
be missing a little from the top echelon but you are in decent shape
as it is until you want to spend $$$$. Fletch listed a good collection
of mics from which to consider, though I would have suggested
Microtech Gefells instead of the Neumanns. Look at thr M930s. Everyone
should have at least one MD441 in their collection. Once you hear it
through your RNP you will understand why.

Agreed. Most Sennheiser dynamics are good values.
MD431, MD421 (not the newest ones) and MD409 as well.
Maybe even the new version of the 409 which is the E906
with the tailoring switch. I'd avoid the E906 "Silver".

rd

[cedricl]

On Mar 20, 12:34*am, cporro wrote:
thought i'd review my mics and do a paring down and ad some more
useful ones. i'm most of the way through dave moultin's golden ears
and starting to hear things differently.

a few things. i'm in a so so room. too much 200hz i think. etf
confirmed some of this at my listening position. i try and mic close
if possible to avoid "the box". i'm on the way to ordering some
broadband bass absorbers from GIC acoustics. but i never expect the
room to sound great.

here is what i record: a drum kit, acoustic guitars, electric (strat
w/ fender twin reverb), vocals.

the mics i have:
4 sm57s, i like these
akg112d, seems to work fine for kick. wish i could add more 10k, but
not pressing.
rodes nt1a, sounds harsh to me
sm81 ditto for harsh
akgc2000b ditto harsh
sm7 not sure really, guess i need to use it more.

so i'm wondering if at this point it might make sense to get rid of
certain mics, fill areas where i'm deficient, and improve on some of
that harshness. i already want to try out another ev20. the first time
round i'm not sure my ears where there.

thanks for any ideas.

A box full of Studio Projects mics will get you some variety without
breaking the bank. A pair of C1s, a pair of C4s and TB3 will set you
back about $1000. They'll supplement what you have until you can try
out and buy some of the Neuman or Scheops mics. Some of the Audio
Technica mics (the 4041, now replaced by the 4051) are great
substitutions for the Neuman KM184. The AT4050 can sub for a AKG 414
in a pinch. The AKG 460 (now the 480) is a really versatile mic with
interchangeable heads, 10db pad and roll off switch.

[geezer[_2_]]

On Mar 20, 10:39*pm, RD Jones wrote:


Agreed. Most Sennheiser dynamics are good values.
MD431, MD421 (not the newest ones) and MD409 as well.
Maybe even the new version of the 409 which is the E906
with the tailoring switch. I'd avoid the E906 "Silver".

rd

Oooohhh, I really the old MD409, wish I had another one. The one to
avoid in the new series is the 609 silver, why they reversed the
number between the 2 iterations never made any sense to me.
Sennheiser had a lot of great dynamics, and they ruined 'em all by
"updating" them.

for dynamics, everyone should have at least one Beyer M88

For LD condensers, check out the Blue Dragonfly, and the AT 4050 from
audio-technica. OKtava sells a kit for their MK012 with 3 small dia
capsules plus the LOMO large diaphragm ead

-glenn

[thepaulthomas]

On Mar 20, 2:05 pm, cporro wrote:
ok so hold them.

any suggestions on what to add? besides the ev20.

EV RE-50

Beyerdynamic M-201

Sennheiser MD-421-U-5

Peavey PVM-521

[Fletch]

wrote:
On Mar 20, 7:44 pm, cporro wrote:
i don't know if it's down stream on the harsh highs. the only preamps
i use are the RNP and the ones in my fireface 800. they are both
decent preamps, right?

as far as the other patterns... at this point i am trying to avoid
including the room sound. but maybe you're saying omnis just have a
different sound.

You can also get real close with omnis without the resultant boom of
cardioids. The closer you get, the less room sound will be apparent.
Inverse square law can be your friend. Your preamps are fine. You may
be missing a little from the top echelon but you are in decent shape
as it is until you want to spend $$$$. Fletch listed a good collection
of mics from which to consider, though I would have suggested
Microtech Gefells instead of the Neumanns. Look at thr M930s. Everyone
should have at least one MD441 in their collection. Once you hear it
through your RNP you will understand why.

bobs

BS Studios / SoundSmith Labs
we organize chaos

Yeah, oops! Gefells are great. I have a couple and they are
scintillating to the senses. The 930 may be small, but it gives a BIG
sound when used correctly.

So to that end I would add the UM 70 or 71. Some say they're U87 killers
at half the price on the street; and the M300 (as well as the 930).

--Fletch

[[email protected]]

On Mar 21, 8:05*am, Fletch wrote:
wrote:
as it is until you want to spend $$$$. Fletch listed a good collection
of mics from which to consider, though I would have suggested
Microtech Gefells instead of the Neumanns.

Yeah, oops! Gefells are great. I have a couple and they are
scintillating to the senses. The 930 may be small, but it gives a BIG
sound when used correctly.

A reminder that Neumanns are better known and many a client has been
drawn by the Neumann badge often to have different (and better suited
for the given purpose) mics used in the end. So having one Neumann in
the collection may be useful. I have a couple, they don't get used
nearly as much many other mics. eg: Soundelux U195 or U95 much more
often than a TLM103. I do have an older KM54 that finds a use more
frequently than the TLM103 even though the KM54 is a lot noisier.

bobs

BS Studios / SoundSmith Labs
we organize chaos

[cporro]

thanks, one thing that i'm not afraid of doing is buying quality. it
just took me a while to start hearing what that was. i don't think a
few k is too much to spend on mics that will sound good for a long
time.

[cporro]

on the good pair of omnis idea anyone want to make some suggestions?
most of the above appear to be cardiod pairs: josephson c42mp, Gefell
m296 omni but at $1,600 i'll wait for my ears to get there...Audio-
Technica AT4051

here are some that i was going to look at...all under 1k for the pair.

audix scx1 these have a few capsule options which may be be nice for
me to try out.

there is also a DPA smk4061 kit. these are mini? micro? mics. i really
don't know what to make of them. they show them mounted on an acoustic
guitar. might be handy. and i guess there would be some type of
adapter so i could use my stands with them.

and a shure ksm141. also with diff capsules.

thoughts?

[RD Jones]

On Mar 25, 11:16*pm, cporro wrote:
on the good pair of omnis idea anyone want to make some suggestions?
most of the above appear to be cardiod pairs: josephson c42mp, Gefell
m296 omni but at $1,600 i'll wait for my ears to get there...Audio-
Technica AT4051

here are some that i was going to look at...all under 1k for the pair.

audix scx1 these have a few capsule options which may be be nice for
me to try out.

there is also a DPA smk4061 kit. these are mini? micro? mics. i really
don't know what to make of them. they show them mounted on an acoustic
guitar. might be handy. and i guess there would be some type of
adapter so i could use my stands with them.

and a shure ksm141. also with diff capsules.

thoughts?

AKG C480/CK62.
Yeah, I know it's expensive.
You could start with a used C460 (reasonable on eBay) and
get the omni CK62. Then later upgrade to the C480 body or
have JW mod it for C480 performance. (again, reasonable)

It makes a good "system". There's an adapter ring to enable
use of the earlier CK1 series of capsules and the Blue Lolypop.
I'm only recommending this setup because it's what I'm building
a system around.

You could also do OK with the Beyer M101 omni.

I have a pair of EV PL9 omni, nice.

rd

[Scott Dorsey]

cporro wrote:
on the good pair of omnis idea anyone want to make some suggestions?
most of the above appear to be cardiod pairs: josephson c42mp, Gefell
m296 omni but at $1,600 i'll wait for my ears to get there...Audio-
Technica AT4051

Problem is that there isn't a market for good omnis, until you get to a
very high price range.

The AT4051 USED to have an omni capsule available called the AT4049, and
it was pretty good. I think it is now discontinued.

there is also a DPA smk4061 kit. these are mini? micro? mics. i really
don't know what to make of them. they show them mounted on an acoustic
guitar. might be handy. and i guess there would be some type of
adapter so i could use my stands with them.

They are pretty good considering their size. They're actually usable as
ambient miking pairs.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."