[Norman M. Schwartz]

A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with respect to
CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed light on what's going
in this Arcam player posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...013552dc1f70d2

[Peter Wieck]

On May 19, 5:48*pm, "Norman M. Schwartz" wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with respect to
CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed light on what's going
in this Arcam player posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...rdings/browse_...

If I had to venture a guess, the ARCAM has a hole in its software. And
I guess that at its typical selling prices, that is acceptable - and
makers of "lesser" units would never get away with that sort of thing.

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:44:50 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article ):

On May 19, 5:48*pm, "Norman M. Schwartz" wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with respect to
CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed light on what's going
in this Arcam player posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...rdings/browse_...

If I had to venture a guess, the ARCAM has a hole in its software. And
I guess that at its typical selling prices, that is acceptable - and
makers of "lesser" units would never get away with that sort of thing.

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Wow, that is amazing! I have the original Magnavox (still) * you know, the
pretty little top loader with the all brushed-aluminum case and built like a
tank? And I've found that it won't play anything but stamped Redbook disks.

[Arny Krueger]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

On May 19, 5:48 pm, "Norman M. Schwartz"
wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness
with respect to CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps
some can shed light on what's going in this Arcam player
posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...rdings/browse_...

If I had to venture a guess, the ARCAM has a hole in its
software. And I guess that at its typical selling prices,
that is acceptable - and makers of "lesser" units would
never get away with that sort of thing.

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player
(B225) has no trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM
stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R types. Stuff that was not
even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time it was made.

I have a CDP 101 that still works, and plays every CD-R I stick into it.

[Peter Wieck]

On May 19, 11:56*pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:44:50 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article ):





On May 19, 5:48*pm, "Norman M. Schwartz" wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with respect to
CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed light on what's going
in this Arcam player posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...rdings/browse_...

If I had to venture a guess, the ARCAM has a hole in its software. And
I guess that at its typical selling prices, that is acceptable - and
makers of "lesser" units would never get away with that sort of thing.

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Wow, that is amazing! I have the original Magnavox (still) * you know, the
pretty little top loader with the all brushed-aluminum case and built like a
tank? *And I've found that it won't play anything but stamped Redbook disks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This one?

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/650...tonopen1wm.jpg

I expect that Philips would use very nearly the same DAC chips as
Revox at the time - and both certainly used the Philips-pattern
transport - so it has to be something else. Speculating wildly, when I
purchased my Revox (used, $125) some 8 years ago, it seemed to be
barely used although it has gotten very heavy use since - maybe the
laser is stronger? Or the focus tighter? Or pure blind luck?

There are trimmer pots for the laser - yes, if it ain't broke and so
forth - but it may be a matter of focus and strength.

But, my point was that ARCAM has no excuse (today or over the last 2-3
years) making a CD player not fully media-agile if other makers were
doing it inadvertantly years ago.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Greg Grainger]

In article , Peter Wieck wrote:

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Hear, hear! My 225 (bought new back in the old days, and never seen inside
of a repair shop except for a couple of tweaks of the laser voltage) does
the same.

All this talk of CD players being the same - I noticed the difference
bewteen the Revox and the top-of-the-line Sony the day I bought the Revox.
I did the same comparison a few days ago between the Revox and my Sony
DVD-CD-DivX-Everything else player. BIG difference.

The Revox still sounds better to my ears.

Greg.

--
Greg Grainger grainger(at)vex.net

'What a world of gammon and spinach it is, though, ain't it?'
- Miss Mowcher

[Esa Harma]

Norman M. Schwartz wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with respect to
CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed light on what's going
in this Arcam player posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...013552dc1f70d2


And there was a time when no CD player made by Sony was able to play CDRs.

And I believe they did that on purpose to prevent people from using
copied CDs.

But they changed it after realizing that they don't control the world
any more ... if they ever did.

br,

5.1

[Sonnova]

On Tue, 20 May 2008 15:43:10 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article ):

On May 19, 11:56*pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:44:50 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article ):





On May 19, 5:48*pm, "Norman M. Schwartz" wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with respect to
CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed light on what's going
in this Arcam player posted on the ng, rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...rdings/browse_...

If I had to venture a guess, the ARCAM has a hole in its software. And
I guess that at its typical selling prices, that is acceptable - and
makers of "lesser" units would never get away with that sort of thing.

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Wow, that is amazing! I have the original Magnavox (still) * you know, the
pretty little top loader with the all brushed-aluminum case and built like a
tank? *And I've found that it won't play anything but stamped Redbook
disks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This one?

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/650...tonopen1wm.jpg

Nope. That's not the original 14-bit magnavox player This is:

http://gon8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1210080247.jpg

In fact it's the first CD player on the market and it sounded better than any
of the first gen Japanese units, including the Kyocera. Philips showed it as
a prototype in their booth at the Las Vegas Winter CES in 1982. It was the
first CD player I ever saw. I kept it because its so nicely made (reminds me
more of a 1950's Germen camera than it does of a hi-fi component) and so
pretty. It still works.

[Steven Sullivan]

Greg Grainger wrote:
In article , Peter Wieck wrote:

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Hear, hear! My 225 (bought new back in the old days, and never seen inside
of a repair shop except for a couple of tweaks of the laser voltage) does
the same.

All this talk of CD players being the same - I noticed the difference
bewteen the Revox and the top-of-the-line Sony the day I bought the Revox.
I did the same comparison a few days ago between the Revox and my Sony
DVD-CD-DivX-Everything else player. BIG difference.

The Revox still sounds better to my ears.

I'd bet no one here is particualrly surprised when someone reports a
BIG difference between CDPs from a sighted comparison.

Far more notable would be if you documented tellomg them apart
in a blind, level-matched comparison.

--
-S
maybe they wanna rock.
maybe they need to rock.
Maybe it's for the money? But That's none of our business..our business as fans is to rock
with them.

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article ,
Sonnova wrote:

http://gon8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1210080247.jpg

In fact it's the first CD player on the market and it sounded better than any
of the first gen Japanese units, including the Kyocera. Philips showed it as
a prototype in their booth at the Las Vegas Winter CES in 1982. It was the
first CD player I ever saw. I kept it because its so nicely made (reminds me
more of a 1950's Germen camera than it does of a hi-fi component) and so
pretty. It still works.

Wow, thanks for that blast from the past! It was the first player that
I heard as well. My conducting mentor made the first U.S. made
symphonic digital recording, and when it came out on CD, I rushed down
to the audio store and listened to it on that player. I was mightily
impressed and bought one on the spot!

[Sonnova]

On Tue, 20 May 2008 19:04:17 -0700, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ):

Greg Grainger wrote:
In article , Peter Wieck
wrote:

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or CD-R
types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at the time
it was made.

Hear, hear! My 225 (bought new back in the old days, and never seen inside
of a repair shop except for a couple of tweaks of the laser voltage) does
the same.

All this talk of CD players being the same - I noticed the difference
bewteen the Revox and the top-of-the-line Sony the day I bought the Revox.
I did the same comparison a few days ago between the Revox and my Sony
DVD-CD-DivX-Everything else player. BIG difference.

The Revox still sounds better to my ears.

I'd bet no one here is particualrly surprised when someone reports a
BIG difference between CDPs from a sighted comparison.

Far more notable would be if you documented tellomg them apart
in a blind, level-matched comparison.



I don't doubt that the Revox sounds good. Most of the bad sounding CD players
from that era wasn't actually the players but rather the CDs. Have you ever
seen a Sony 1620 or 1630 CD mastering encoder that was used for virtually all
CD production in the early years of the format? It had more electrolytic
capacitors and 709/741 era op-amps in the signal path than you could shake a
stick at. No wonder early CDs sound so harsh.

[Norman M. Schwartz]

Sonnova wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 15:43:10 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article ):

On May 19, 11:56 pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:44:50 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article ):





On May 19, 5:48 pm, "Norman M. Schwartz"
wrote:
A short time ago we had a discussion involving fussiness with
respect to CD-Rs and high end CD players. Perhaps some can shed
light on what's going in this Arcam player posted on the ng,
rec.music.classical.recordings

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...rdings/browse_...

If I had to venture a guess, the ARCAM has a hole in its software.
And I guess that at its typical selling prices, that is acceptable
- and makers of "lesser" units would never get away with that sort
of thing.

I find it strange that my very early Revox CD player (B225) has no
trouble with any CD medium, whether OEM stamped or dye-type CD or
CD-R types. Stuff that was not even a gleam in a designer's eye at
the time it was made.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Wow, that is amazing! I have the original Magnavox (still) * you
know, the pretty little top loader with the all brushed-aluminum
case and built like a tank? And I've found that it won't play
anything but stamped Redbook disks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This one?

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/650...tonopen1wm.jpg

Nope. That's not the original 14-bit magnavox player This is:

http://gon8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1210080247.jpg

In fact it's the first CD player on the market and it sounded better
than any of the first gen Japanese units, including the Kyocera.
Philips showed it as a prototype in their booth at the Las Vegas
Winter CES in 1982. It was the first CD player I ever saw. I kept it
because its so nicely made (reminds me more of a 1950's Germen camera
than it does of a hi-fi component) and so pretty. It still works.

Look at (and listen?) to one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJmkMOW1Gfk