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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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"hank alrich" skrev i en meddelelse
...

Not sure this helps but.


http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/no...nge-noise.html


Thank you Hank, he should be totally confused by now. They don't seem to
know how to google. Take white noise and roll it off with 6 dB pr. octave
above 320 Hz. Someone back then, I think it was Rodney in
alt.sci.physics.acoustics, told me that there is a standard noise with that
characteristic.

It is based on analyzing a lot of natural recordings with Cool Edit and a
Pentium 133 computer to see if a "natural sound characteristic" existed. The
idea was an expansion of something a dane at an AES meeting in Radiohuset
about restoration explained about comparing a new recording of a string
quartet with an old to get data that would be useful in recovering the
original frequency content, I'm very sorry that I can not remember his name.

There are then some modifying factors to be aware of, magnetic recordings
generally have less treble and for large rooms that also applies and there
will be extra bass in some musical genres.

The mechanism appears to me to be the sound radiation characteristics of
objects, with increased frequency you get increased directivity.

I also made a lot of crest factor analyses. Being an enthusiastic idiot I
tried to put too much stuff in one paper instead of in dividing it in three,
so it didn't pass the review process for the journal.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen




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[email protected] makolber@yahoo.com is offline
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It is based on analyzing a lot of natural recordings with Cool Edit and a
Pentium 133 computer to see if a "natural sound characteristic" existed. The
idea was an expansion of something a dane at an AES meeting in Radiohuset
about restoration explained about comparing a new recording of a string
quartet with an old to get data that would be useful in recovering the
original frequency content, I'm very sorry that I can not remember his name.


this is an interesting topic.

I was under the impression that the average spectral density of most music follows the 75us FM radio de-emphasis curve. It is flat from 20 Hz to about 2.2 kHz and rolls off at 6 dB per octave above 2.2 kHz. And I do find that recordings that violate this on the high side do seem to sound harsh.


Then another tib-bit.....

It all depends on the type of analyzer you use.
A so called real time octave based audio analyzer has "bins" that get wider as you go up in frequency.
A "normal" spectrum anlyzer has "bins" that are of a constant bandwidth.
This makes no difference when you are analyzing tones.
But when you are analyzing distributed wideband spectrums, it can make a difference.
For example, pink noise appears "flat" on an RTA and slopes down on an SA. White noise appears flat on an SA and slopes upwards on an RTA.

Having fun yet?

Mark

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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:16:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



It is based on analyzing a lot of natural recordings with Cool Edit and a
Pentium 133 computer to see if a "natural sound characteristic" existed. The
idea was an expansion of something a dane at an AES meeting in Radiohuset
about restoration explained about comparing a new recording of a string
quartet with an old to get data that would be useful in recovering the
original frequency content, I'm very sorry that I can not remember his name.


this is an interesting topic.

I was under the impression that the average spectral density of most music follows the 75us FM radio de-emphasis curve. It is flat from 20 Hz to about 2.2 kHz and rolls off at 6 dB per octave above 2.2 kHz. And I do find that recordings that violate this on the high side do seem to sound harsh.


Then another tib-bit.....

It all depends on the type of analyzer you use.
A so called real time octave based audio analyzer has "bins" that get wider as you go up in frequency.
A "normal" spectrum anlyzer has "bins" that are of a constant bandwidth.
This makes no difference when you are analyzing tones.
But when you are analyzing distributed wideband spectrums, it can make a difference.
For example, pink noise appears "flat" on an RTA and slopes down on an SA. White noise appears flat on an SA and slopes upwards on an RTA.

Having fun yet?

Mark


Provided you are comparing like for like, that doesn't matter. I shall
do some spectrograms of various music genres and se what we get. I
intend to use a normal FFT - white noise = flat.

d
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:59:06 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:13:21 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" skrev i en meddelelse
...

On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:33:32 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
wrote:


And with longer wordlength fft:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34064013/hires.png

What did you use to flatten it out, +3dB per octave FFT filter?


Yes, above 320 Hz, see also:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...nge%20rock.png

Note: just applying the correction curve is not likely to work well because
not all sound sources in the mix need eq and because it is an average of all
songs en suite, using a multiband compressor carefully might be to the
point.

d

Here's the problem. The bass lift is down to the eq on the voice -
nothing else. So you can't fix this post-mix. It has to be done on the
individual channel. So if you are going to use a curve-matching system
to do what? - meet an ideal, or maybe make it look like something
similar - then it has to be done at the level of the individual
tracks, not the final output.

d


I've taken the spectra for a bunch of pieces, and they all follow a
trend - about 30dB down at 10kHz compared to 100Hz.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/spectro.htm

I need to think about what this means. I suspect the devil is in the
detail - local deviations from the straight line.

d
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Luxey Luxey is offline
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среда, 29. април 2015. 18..20.10 UTC+2, Peter Larsen је написао/ла:
"hank alrich" skrev i en meddelelse
...

Not sure this helps but.


http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/no...nge-noise.html


Thank you Hank, he should be totally confused by now. They don't seem to
know how to google.


Where can I google for the meaning of above statement?!

To avoid any confusion:
Provided you were talking about me, I mean, obviously, you continued on Hank's
response to my post ...
Why would you want me confused and/or why do you think I am?
Why do you think Hank would want to cunfuse me?
Why do you think I do not know how to Google?



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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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"Luxey" skrev i en meddelelse
...
?????, 29. ????? 2015. 18.20.10 UTC+2, Peter Larsen ?? ???????/??:

"hank alrich" skrev i en meddelelse
...


Not sure this helps but.


http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/no...nge-noise.html


Thank you Hank, he should be totally confused by now. They don't seem to
know how to google.


Where can I google for the meaning of above statement?!


"They" point to mediacollege.com and their webpage with nonsense.

To avoid any confusion:
Provided you were talking about me, I mean, obviously, you continued on
Hank's
response to my post ...


Yes, and I was perhaps just a wee bit sarcastic but skipped the smiley.

Why would you want me confused and/or why do you think I am?


No, I would not want you confused, but if you followed Hanks link you would
be.

Why do you think Hank would want to cunfuse me?


Nothing points in that direction nor was any such meaning intended.

Why do you think I do not know how to Google?


I don't. Again, "they" did NOT point at you, it points at mediacollege.com.
Mediacollege.com does not know how to google, otherwise they would not have
posted such nonsense. Also Hank would have been better off if remembering to
google groups.google.com as he was looking for stuff that first appeared on
usenet.

Is all resolved?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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"Don Pearce" skrev i en meddelelse
...

I've taken the spectra for a bunch of pieces, and they all follow a
trend - about 30dB down at 10kHz compared to 100Hz.


http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/spectro.htm


I need to think about what this means. I suspect the devil is in the
detail - local deviations from the straight line.


You need to look at natural sound sources, one such I included was a couple
of sound effects sampler cd's from trade shows. Factors that are kinda
obvious are dispersion of sound from large objects and mass damping, both
should cause hf radiated energy to drop off in my view of the world. You're
probably the one that knows the math ...

What Aranjuez is is, it is obviously peculiar, fascinating!

d


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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Luxey Luxey is offline
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четвртак, 30. април 2015. 01.33.52 UTC+2, Peter Larsen је написао/ла:


Is all resolved?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Sure, no problem.

I'm sorry for asking and hope to not have offended you too much. I'd never
thought you would say something the way I interpreted it, but once it was in my
mind I thought better to have it all straight.
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Gray_Wolf[_2_] Gray_Wolf[_2_] is offline
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 21:34:09 -0500, Frank Stearns
wrote:

[snip]


Would-be jazz players ought to at least study the jazz written by Leonard Bernstein
or Dave Brubeck (among others, or even go back and understand some of the early
rules of jazz), and even study a few classical composers -- and then develop the
chops to play it all well.

At that point, after they've understood the fundamentals and have the foundation,
future musical noodling might actually have some value, rather than just an excuse
to hide a lack of depth, or prop up what is too often just musical slouching or
musical bad posture.

Sorry to offend any jazz devotees; again, just an opinion.

Frank
Mobile Audio


Frank, I totally agree. After 60 years I've determined that few
players really speak to me. I have no idea where some of these
abstract jazz players are coming from and don't really care.


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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Luxey wrote:

?????, 29. ????? 2015. 18.20.10 UTC+2, Peter Larsen ?? ???????/??:
"hank alrich" skrev i en meddelelse
...

Not sure this helps but.


http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/no...nge-noise.html


Thank you Hank, he should be totally confused by now. They don't seem to
know how to google.


Where can I google for the meaning of above statement?!

To avoid any confusion:
Provided you were talking about me, I mean, obviously, you continued on Hank's
response to my post ...
Why would you want me confused and/or why do you think I am?


I think the confusion lies not with you at all, but with the information
that is presented in the Wiki article. Therefrom I could not come to any
conclusion about the makeup of "orange noise", nor see that it was a
term agreed upon in the industry.

I came away not knowing WTF it is, or what it is supposed to be.

Why do you think Hank would want to cunfuse me?


I would only do that in humor, and if I succeeded would not let you
linger there long! ;-)

Why do you think I do not know how to Google?


I will take a longshot, and suggest Peter might have carried over a
reaction from Facebook participation, where we repeatedly run into
situations where partial information is presented, with plenty of clues
to get the rest of the story via a search, and someone will ask "Where
can I find xxyyzz?" When that happens and I care enough, I'll run a
quick search and spoonfeed the thread.

Another angle might be that given my kindergarten search term Google was
not able to offer much info that I found useful. That's why I prefaced
the link with the remark, "Not sure this helps but". I couldn't find
anything that made any more sense than that article, from which I left
feeling senseless.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic


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Luxey wrote:

????????, 30. ????? 2015. 01.33.52 UTC+2, Peter Larsen ?? ???????/??:


Is all resolved?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Sure, no problem.

I'm sorry for asking and hope to not have offended you too much. I'd never
thought you would say something the way I interpreted it, but once it was
in my mind I thought better to have it all straight.


You are both admirable humans. I thank both of you for that.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Peter Larsen wrote:

Also Hank would have been better off if remembering to
google groups.google.com as he was looking for stuff that first appeared on
usenet.


Yes, I didn't know enough about what I was looking for to find useful
info. Hell, even Wikipedia's entry on "Colors of Noise" is useless in
this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_of_noise

I have yet to do anything with Google groups. I just don't think of it.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
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"Luxey" skrev i en meddelelse
...
????????, 30. ????? 2015. 01.33.52 UTC+2, Peter Larsen ?? ???????/??:


Is all resolved?


Kind regards


Peter Larsen


Sure, no problem.


I'm sorry for asking and hope to not have offended you too much. I'd never
thought you would say something the way I interpreted it, but once it was
in my
mind I thought better to have it all straight.


Luxey, I very glad you asked, thank you.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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Yes, I didn't know enough about what I was looking for to find useful
info. Hell, even Wikipedia's entry on "Colors of Noise" is useless in
this case.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_of_noise


Perhaps I should edit it ...

I have yet to do anything with Google groups. I just don't think of it.


You don't have to except for searching. Some of the time just adding
newsgroups name to an ordinary google search does it, for instance a search
for:

Peter Larsen rec.audio.pro

works surprisingly well.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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wrote:

I was under the impression that the average spectral density of most music =
follows the 75us FM radio de-emphasis curve. It is flat from 20 Hz to abou=
t 2.2 kHz and rolls off at 6 dB per octave above 2.2 kHz. And I do find t=
hat recordings that violate this on the high side do seem to sound harsh. =


This may have been the case at one time, and it may be true of classical
music today, but these days a lot of genres have far more top end than
this. (Which is why things like NAB equalization, which were selected with
the assumption of a similar spectral density, may not be optimal today.)
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Peter Larsen wrote:

Yes, I didn't know enough about what I was looking for to find useful
info. Hell, even Wikipedia's entry on "Colors of Noise" is useless in
this case.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colors_of_noise


Perhaps I should edit it ...

I have yet to do anything with Google groups. I just don't think of it.


You don't have to except for searching. Some of the time just adding
newsgroups name to an ordinary google search does it, for instance a search
for:

Peter Larsen rec.audio.pro

works surprisingly well.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Thank you, Peter.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
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