[alessandro sdt]

hi all,
i have just finished mi first 5.1 mix for a short film in my home studio.
I compiled a 2 min test DCP folder to be sure everything went good prior to work on the whole movie.
A friend of mine work as pojectionist and allowed me to check my DCP.
I asked him to set the cp65 level to 7, and he told me that usually they keep the level below 5.
Strange, but the projection started. I quickly noticed the center channel was way too loud compared to L and R and the surrounds speaker was barely audible only when walking very close.
He told me that usually dialogs are really low so is a common pratice to raise the center a "bit".
I came back the day after with a new DCP containing a series of pink noise tracks at -20dBFS in order to figure out the real magnitude of this "bit". With my soundmeter i measured these values from the centre of the theat

L 82dBC
R 77dBC
C 97dBC
SL 74dBC
SR 69dBC
LFE not measured

Scaring. Isn't?
Now the question.
In the making of a motion picture mix, which levels are considered STANDARD?

regards ale

[Scott Dorsey]

alessandro sdt wrote:
hi all,
i have just finished mi first 5.1 mix for a short film in my home studio.
I compiled a 2 min test DCP folder to be sure everything went good prior to work on the whole movie.
A friend of mine work as pojectionist and allowed me to check my DCP.
I asked him to set the cp65 level to 7, and he told me that usually they keep the level below 5.
Strange, but the projection started. I quickly noticed the center channel was way too loud compared to L and R and the surrounds speaker was barely audible only when walking very close.
He told me that usually dialogs are really low so is a common pratice to raise the center a "bit".

There is a Dolby standard.
Then there is what studios do (which is to bring the average levels up way
too high and bury the dialogue).
Then there is what theatres do (which is to run films in rooms that are too
live so the dialogue intelligibility is impaired, then crank up the center
channel level to compensate).

I came back the day after with a new DCP containing a series of pink noise tracks at -20dBFS in order to figure out the real magnitude of this "bit". With my soundmeter i measured these values from the centre of the theat

L 82dBC
R 77dBC
C 97dBC
SL 74dBC
SR 69dBC
LFE not measured

Scaring. Isn't?

I have seen worse. I have seen a _lot_ better, but I have also seen worse.
This would not pass THX certification, by the way.

Now the question.
In the making of a motion picture mix, which levels are considered STANDARD?

If you went to Skywalker Sound or Cinecitta you would find a big dubbing stage
with calibrated levels everywhere.

But then you would also find someone checking the mix with the surrounds muted
and then folded down to two channel stereo just to make sure they sound okay
that way. If it sounds okay folded down to stereo it will probably sound okay
with the center channel punched up way too high.

If you go to http://www.film-tech.com you can see some discussions with
projectionists complaining bitterly about these practices.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[alessandro sdt]

Thankyou, Scott, the point is how much i can trust in the dolby calibration standard and, at the same time, dealing with such facts.
In other words i can work on a "perfect" mix, in my carefully calibrated control room, that is going to be destroyed in the theatre or i'm goin to concentrate the 99% of the sound energy in the center channel (leading to an almost MONO mix) to avoid any potential unbalance due to the room miscalibration.

Probably the best way to work will lay in between and i want to figure out how.

regards Ale






Il giorno lunedì 5 maggio 2014 15:19:31 UTC+2, Scott Dorsey ha scritto:
alessandro sdt wrote:

hi all,

i have just finished mi first 5.1 mix for a short film in my home studio..

I compiled a 2 min test DCP folder to be sure everything went good prior to work on the whole movie.

A friend of mine work as pojectionist and allowed me to check my DCP.

I asked him to set the cp65 level to 7, and he told me that usually they keep the level below 5.

Strange, but the projection started. I quickly noticed the center channel was way too loud compared to L and R and the surrounds speaker was barely audible only when walking very close.

He told me that usually dialogs are really low so is a common pratice to raise the center a "bit".



There is a Dolby standard.

Then there is what studios do (which is to bring the average levels up way

too high and bury the dialogue).

Then there is what theatres do (which is to run films in rooms that are too

live so the dialogue intelligibility is impaired, then crank up the center

channel level to compensate).



I came back the day after with a new DCP containing a series of pink noise tracks at -20dBFS in order to figure out the real magnitude of this "bit". With my soundmeter i measured these values from the centre of the theat



L 82dBC

R 77dBC

C 97dBC

SL 74dBC

SR 69dBC

LFE not measured



Scaring. Isn't?



I have seen worse. I have seen a _lot_ better, but I have also seen worse.

This would not pass THX certification, by the way.



Now the question.

In the making of a motion picture mix, which levels are considered STANDARD?



If you went to Skywalker Sound or Cinecitta you would find a big dubbing stage

with calibrated levels everywhere.



But then you would also find someone checking the mix with the surrounds muted

and then folded down to two channel stereo just to make sure they sound okay

that way. If it sounds okay folded down to stereo it will probably sound okay

with the center channel punched up way too high.



If you go to http://www.film-tech.com you can see some discussions with

projectionists complaining bitterly about these practices.

--scott

--

"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

alessandro sdt wrote:
Thankyou, Scott, the point is how much i can trust in the dolby calibration=
standard and, at the same time, dealing with such facts.

The same theatres that show their movies out of focus and out of frame will
also show them with the calibration way off.

We have one multiplex theatre in my area that has had a blown diaphragm on
the right channel speaker in one auditorium, and has for several years now.
When I complain, they just say nobody else thinks it's a problem.

In other words i can work on a "perfect" mix, in my carefully calibrated co=
ntrol room, that is going to be destroyed in the theatre or i'm goin to con=
centrate the 99% of the sound energy in the center channel (leading to an a=
lmost MONO mix) to avoid any potential unbalance due to the room miscalibra=
tion.=20

Yes, but it's even worse because eventually your film will wind up on a DVD
that people will watch at home, and their home systems are far worse than
theatre systems in most cases.

I will say, though, that your carefully calibrated control room probably has
a much shorter reverb time than the theatre, and this is a big deal. It's
why films intended for theatrical presentation have usually been mixed in
big dubbing stages.

Probably the best way to work will lay in between and i want to figure out =
how.

Including a note to the projectionist in the can is never a bad idea.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
alessandro sdt wrote:
snip

Including a note to the projectionist in the can is never a bad idea.
--scott


Unless the projectionist is Prince Albert.

--
Les Cargill

[Dave Plowman (News)]

A recent BBC adaptation of Jamaica Inn has attracted lots of complaints
over inaudible dialogue. Mumbling actors being initially blamed - but the
usual radio mics buried beneath layers of clothing didn't help much either
as the dialogue quality was distinctly 'woolly'. Despite lots of out of
sync ADR. ;-)

But the latest excuse is a faulty mixdown from 5.1 to stereo. Seems
someone has their priorities wrong, given a tiny percentage of the viewers
will watch a made for TV drama in 5.1. Those that have it will be
disturbing the neighbours with some feature film. ;-)

--
*Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[[email protected]]

Scott Dorsey wrote: "There is a Dolby standard.
Then there is what studios do (which is to bring the average levels up way
too high and bury the dialogue).
Then there is what theatres do (which is to run films in rooms that are too
live so the dialogue intelligibility is impaired, then crank up the center
channel level to compensate). "

Regrettably the oft-mentioned loudness war has infested cinema, so sadly standards have taken a long holiday.

One U.S. state, in a misguided attempt to appease patrons, is proposing theater volume legislation. Like trying to put the bullet back in the chamber after it just knocked a hole in someone's skull. smh!

[None]

wrote in message
...
after it just knocked a hole in someone's skull. smh!

So that's what happened to your skull. It figures.