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#41
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soldering tips
In article ,
Mike Rivers wrote: On 5/5/2014 7:08 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: The question was irrelevant to my original statement. It was in context for the thread. Which is about 'home' soldering - not manufacture. ;-) Many seem to think it's not possible to buy leaded solder. I'm sure there must be a country where leaded electronics-type solder isn't available but there's no problem ordering it from Digi-Key in the US Lots of choices he http://tinyurl.com/ljb38pb Yup - same in the UK. But not on the high street, probably. I guess plumbers don't use leaded solder any more, but that's so we don't drink the lead. It can still be bought and used on non potable water here. Like the heating system, etc. But do auto body shops still use solder? If so, is it lead-free? Probably not. That's still available too - despite being likely a real H&S risk since it can get sanded down. -- *A hangover is the wrath of grapes. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#42
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 5/6/2014 10:17 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
But do auto body shops still use solder? If so, is it lead-free? Probably not. That's still available too - despite being likely a real H&S risk since it can get sanded down. Not only that, but cars that have dents filled with lead solder ultimately find their way to a landfill. -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#43
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 5/6/2014 11:31 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/6/2014 10:17 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: But do auto body shops still use solder? If so, is it lead-free? Probably not. That's still available too - despite being likely a real H&S risk since it can get sanded down. Not only that, but cars that have dents filled with lead solder ultimately find their way to a landfill. I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#44
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
"Ron C" wrote in message
... I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. The claim (of which I remain suspicious) is that lead leaches into the water supply from discarded electronic equipment, and the amount is significant. I would like to see evidence one way or another. |
#45
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 06/05/2014 17:35, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Ron C" wrote in message ... I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. The claim (of which I remain suspicious) is that lead leaches into the water supply from discarded electronic equipment, and the amount is significant. I would like to see evidence one way or another. Compared with what leaks out when the electrolytics corrode, I'd not reckon it's even in the same league of harmfulness. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#46
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
"William Sommerwerck" writes:
"Ron C" wrote in message m... I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. The claim (of which I remain suspicious) is that lead leaches into the water supply from discarded electronic equipment, and the amount is significant. I would like to see evidence one way or another. A good suspicion to have. Most land fills these days are lined, so going to lead-free is rather moot on that point. What I find silly is that battery production accounts for the overwhelming use of lead (along with the equally-nasty-to-smelt nickel), while electronics is a small percentage. But electric cars are environmentally hip, so we ignore the dirty smelting in those cases. Appears to be another instance of uninformed emotion trumping rational thought, and in the process causing many unintended consequences, such a circuit-shorting tin whiskers or poorly seated parts. And from that, we waste more resources as we replace this crap wholesale with a greater frequency. (I'm just glad avionics and medical gear are exempt from these absurd rules.) Frank Mobile Audio -- |
#47
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 7/05/2014 3:31 a.m., Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/6/2014 10:17 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: But do auto body shops still use solder? If so, is it lead-free? Probably not. That's still available too - despite being likely a real H&S risk since it can get sanded down. Not only that, but cars that have dents filled with lead solder ultimately find their way to a landfill. Thought they'd exclusively use plastic expoxy filler for decades now ! geoff |
#48
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 7/05/2014 4:44 a.m., John Williamson wrote:
On 06/05/2014 17:35, William Sommerwerck wrote: "Ron C" wrote in message ... I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. The claim (of which I remain suspicious) is that lead leaches into the water supply from discarded electronic equipment, and the amount is significant. I would like to see evidence one way or another. Compared with what leaks out when the electrolytics corrode, I'd not reckon it's even in the same league of harmfulness. Oh it definitely is - look what happened to Rome. Mind you, I heard (maybe an urban legend) that many water mains in the USA still use lead piping. If true, that may explain a few things .... All that is need to cope with lead solder (from electronics !) is an enforced way to deal with discarded electronic waste. geoff |
#49
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 06/05/2014 22:07, geoff wrote:
On 7/05/2014 3:31 a.m., Mike Rivers wrote: On 5/6/2014 10:17 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: But do auto body shops still use solder? If so, is it lead-free? Probably not. That's still available too - despite being likely a real H&S risk since it can get sanded down. Not only that, but cars that have dents filled with lead solder ultimately find their way to a landfill. Thought they'd exclusively use plastic expoxy filler for decades now ! Some of the classic car people still use lead loading, and it *is* real lead. Keeps it authentic and gives a better, more reliable fill than the epoxy stuff if it's done right. We are, though, talking about a few dozen cars a year in the UK, using a only a few ounces of lead in most cases. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#50
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
"geoff" wrote in message
... Look what happened to Rome. Romans supposedly liked to sweeten their wine with sugar of lead -- lead(ii) acetate. This contributed to lead poisoning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate By the way, lead acetate is the stuff in Grecian Formula and other "comb-in" hair colorants. Mind you, I heard (maybe an urban legend) that many water mains in the USA still use lead piping. If true, that may explain a few things... I don't know if they still are, but as late as the 1920s, lead manufacturers touted how lead pipes kept the water supply pure. (I'm seen the ads.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2509614/ All that is need to cope with lead solder (from electronics!) is an enforced way to deal with discarded electronic waste. It's not likely to happen -- considering the amount of electronic waste generated, and the way much is sent to third-world countries for cheap extraction of gold and (I assume) copper. |
#51
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
acquisition... What I find silly is that battery production accounts for the overwhelming use of lead (along with the equally-nasty-to- smelt nickel), while electronics is a small percentage. But lead batteries are heavily recycled -- not dumped into landfills. |
#52
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 5/6/2014 12:26 PM, Ron C wrote:
I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. This is the argument that the small electronic manufacturers are giving, but consider how much solder is in a phone compared to a solder-filled dent in a fender. The solder they use for auto body repair comes in bars about 1/4" x 1/2" and is 70% lead (30 % tin). There indeed is lead free body solder now. Why am I not surprised? -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#53
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
geoff wrote:
On 7/05/2014 4:44 a.m., John Williamson wrote: On 06/05/2014 17:35, William Sommerwerck wrote: "Ron C" wrote in message ... I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. The claim (of which I remain suspicious) is that lead leaches into the water supply from discarded electronic equipment, and the amount is significant. I would like to see evidence one way or another. Compared with what leaks out when the electrolytics corrode, I'd not reckon it's even in the same league of harmfulness. Oh it definitely is - look what happened to Rome. Mind you, I heard (maybe an urban legend) that many water mains in the USA still use lead piping. If true, that may explain a few things .... That was not the lead piping. It was lead salts used as a sweetener. All that is need to cope with lead solder (from electronics !) is an enforced way to deal with discarded electronic waste. Nobody wants to pay for that. geoff -- Les Cargill |
#54
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
In article ,
Mike Rivers wrote: This is the argument that the small electronic manufacturers are giving, but consider how much solder is in a phone compared to a solder-filled dent in a fender. The solder they use for auto body repair comes in bars about 1/4" x 1/2" and is 70% lead (30 % tin). I'd be most surprised if any body shop used lead these days to fill a dent - except where it was used on a classic, etc. Far too expensive. -- *I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#55
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 7/05/2014 10:53 a.m., Mike Rivers wrote:
On 5/6/2014 12:26 PM, Ron C wrote: I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. This is the argument that the small electronic manufacturers are giving, but consider how much solder is in a phone compared to a solder-filled dent in a fender. The solder they use for auto body repair comes in bars about 1/4" x 1/2" and is 70% lead (30 % tin). There indeed is lead free body solder now. Why am I not surprised? I'm sure the amount of (potential) lead in solder would be a zillion times the amount of lead used in rare automotive repairs. geoff |
#56
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
William Sommerwerck wrote:
m... I'm not sure how much of an environmental problem that would pose. A recent episode of "Cosmos" spent a lot of time on lead pollution and it seems tetraethyl lead in fuel was the primary offender and next down the line was lead in paint. Both of those sources present very large surface areas to the environment. I suspect (though I've never seen any supportive data) that lead solder in all it's uses has a tiny impact on the environment. I'd be interested in seeing environmental impact data, pro or con. The claim (of which I remain suspicious) is that lead leaches into the water supply from discarded electronic equipment, and the amount is significant. I would like to see evidence one way or another. I have no doubt that this does happen, and it's probably an issue with discarded electronic equipment in landfills. But if anything, the RoHS rules have increased the amount of electronic equipment being discarded, which does not seem like an improvement from an ecological perspective to me, even if lead itself might be reduced. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#57
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Frank Stearns" wrote in message nacquisition... What I find silly is that battery production accounts for the overwhelming use of lead (along with the equally-nasty-to- smelt nickel), while electronics is a small percentage. But lead batteries are heavily recycled -- not dumped into landfills. They're recycled in REALLY SCARY facilities in Tijuana.... the landfill might even be an improvement... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#58
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
"Les Cargill" wrote in message ... All that is need to cope with lead solder (from electronics !) is an enforced way to deal with discarded electronic waste. Nobody wants to pay for that. And yet a huge proportion of e-waste here is recycled, the money made in precious elements recovered paying for it. In fact it costs a not so small *fortune* to dump non e-waste at our local tip, and *nothing* to recycle e-waste! Trevor. |
#59
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... Some of the classic car people still use lead loading, and it *is* real lead. Keeps it authentic and gives a better, more reliable fill than the epoxy stuff if it's done right. We are, though, talking about a few dozen cars a year in the UK, using a only a few ounces of lead in most cases. Right, anyone that fussy wants the *absolute minimum* of ANY filler to be used in the repairs! Trevor |
#60
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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soldering tips
On 08/05/2014 08:32, Trevor wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... Some of the classic car people still use lead loading, and it *is* real lead. Keeps it authentic and gives a better, more reliable fill than the epoxy stuff if it's done right. We are, though, talking about a few dozen cars a year in the UK, using a only a few ounces of lead in most cases. Right, anyone that fussy wants the *absolute minimum* of ANY filler to be used in the repairs! Yup, it's mainly used to fill the seams between panels, which are normally hand beaten from flat steel sheet. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
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