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Sharky Sharky is offline
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Posts: 13
Default Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp

Hi. I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades,
but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest.
Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small
8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. It is very
small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the
idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's
a mini-van, LOL). This box was only $5 including tax, and is already
carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection,
if that were so desired (it's not). It actually isn't built all that bad,
not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take
a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. It suits my
needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row
seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the
van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time),
without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my
construction gear. Installing under the middle seat will also make it much
easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer
than installing all the way to the rear of the van.

I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will
suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. I have an amplifier that I
can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-5100T.Support ,
currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. 250-300
watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number
in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. The head unit is an Almani
DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching
built-in. Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before
purchase. However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW
and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something
else I may look into down the road.

Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be
greatly appreciated. BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or
wake up the neighbours. I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music,
which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some
dance music. Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub
cannot have a huge magnet. The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the
weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup.

Thanks in advance,
Sharky

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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp

OK, let me tell you something first before we get into brand names and who
makes the best subwoofer.

I have had, geez I have to think about this, 7 high quality systems in my
car ever since 1991. And by high quality, I mean top-notch gear and
proffesional installation (I used to have all my gear proffesionally
installed until about 8 years ago when I felt like I had learned enough to
do my own).

Anyway, what I learned over the course of these seven vehicles (and of
course, others) is that cabin size is EVERYTHING when you are talking about
bass. Nothing more dramitically brought this point home to me when I
transfered my entire system from a Nissan Stanza to a Subaru Forrester. Now
I had a pair of 12" JL 12W3's in a sealed box in the trunk of my Stanza and
a Soundstream Refference 700 (700 watts RMS) driving them. It was LOUD!!!!!

When I transferred this to the Subaru I actually thought I would get MORE
bass as the subs would no longer be isolated in a trunk but would be open to
the main cabin, in the rear storage area.

I couldn't have been more wrong. Despite extensive experimenting with
placement, I got NO WHERE NEAR the quantity of bass in the larger Subaru
cabin vs. the much smaller Stanza.

The point I am making is that I have done many installations now for myself
and friends. In a truck cabin (I've done two trucks for friends), a quality
8" subwoofer with enough power can, indeed, produce prodigous amounts of
bass thanks to the transfer function that is VERY pronounced in the small
cabin of a truck.

HOWEVER, even a very good 8" sub with lots of power in a minivan may leave
you disapointed. Again, I tell you this only because I have experienced it
first-hand. I understand you are not looking for a ground-pounder so you
can be heard coming three blocks away, BUT, my point is that if you are
going to go through all the hassle of installing an amp and subwoofer, let
me suggest you go with larger, or multiple subs. A pair of high quality
10's would probably do the job nicely or AT LEAST a single 12" sub (two
would be even better). And again, I'm not thinking in terms of waking your
neighbors up, but the fact that the transfer function in a minivan is NOT
going to give your bass much of a boost. Anyway, that's my $.02 on that
matter.

AS far as quality subs, there are many quality sub makers out there these
days. Subwoofers have improved dramatically over the years, and a single
quality sub today can BLOW AWAY two subs of similar size made 10+ years ago.
Motor structures have advanced dramtically in size and cooling methods have
improved incredibly. Cone material is much more advanced (lighter and
stronger) allowing for greater pistonic movement, or Xmax. Spider material
today allows for a longer stroke, yet still keeps the cone and former in
alignment. I could go on, but you get my drift. In fact, if I had to
choose one component of a car audio system that has improved the most in the
last 10 years, I would say subwoofers without a moment's hesitation (well,
OK, the Class D amp certainly improved things for us all).

MTX makes a really good subwoofer and I would strongly encourage you to
check out and listen to their line. Alpine also makes some outstanding
subwoofers, their Class R subs are truly amazing (and to think, 15 years
ago I scoffed at Japaneese speakers). JL, of course, continues to improve
and produce quality subwoofers as well. Though none of these subs are
exactly cheap, they won't break the bank either. Like anything else, you
get what you pay for but I would be confident that any one of these
manufactureres would produce a quality product, no matter how much you
choose to spend. In a nutshell, I guess these three would be on my
shortlist.

And keep in mind, I'm not saying this because I own them (you find in this
group that when the topic of the "best subs" comes up, coincendentally it
ALWAYS seems that whoever recommends a brand just happens to also use that
brand).

I don't use any of those three (though I did use MTX and JL for many years,
as well as Rockford Fosgate, but lately I have not been all that impressed
with their stuff) right now. I use a pair 15" subs in a sealed box driven
by an Alpine Class D 850 watt RMS amp that some would likely consider an
"off-brand" subwoofer, but I love them to death so there!

Anyway, that's what I have to say on this matter, JL, MTX or Alpine and you
will most likely not be disapointed. AND, I would STRONGLY consider going
bit further than a single 8" sub in a minivan.

MOSFET


"Sharky" wrote in message
news:s7aDl.20825$Db2.9401@edtnps83...
Hi. I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few
decades, but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and
greatest. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a
very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in
size. It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have
been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota
Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). This box was only $5 including tax,
and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a
neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). It actually
isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes
from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and probably
add some filler. It suits my needs because of the fact that it will slide
directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms way, and means
I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear (I leave the two
rear seats out all the time), without worrying about losing storage space
or damaging the sub with my construction gear. Installing under the
middle seat will also make it much easier to route power and RCA leads to
the amplifier, because it is closer than installing all the way to the
rear of the van.

I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that
will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. I have an amplifier
that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-5100T.Support ,
currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used.
250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around
that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. The head unit is an
Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching
built-in. Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more
before purchase. However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable
DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is
something else I may look into down the road.

Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be
greatly appreciated. BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or
wake up the neighbours. I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music,
which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some
dance music. Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub
cannot have a huge magnet. The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the
weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup.

Thanks in advance,
Sharky



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MOSFET MOSFET is offline
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Posts: 810
Default One more thing.....

Lay people often wonder why folks put multiple large woofers in there cars.
They incorrectly assume that it has to do with the driver's desire to
announce one's pressence 6 blocks away and therefore demonstrates a childish
immaturity on the part of the car owner. I WILL concede that the transfer
function often gives you louder bass in a car than a comparable set of subs
and power in a home system.

HOWEVER, what many people DO NOT understand is that road noise and engine
noise, especially cruising down a freeway, has the unpleasant effect of
droaning out a great deal of bass. It's this drone of tires and engine that
often causes bass to attenuate to the point of complete cancelation!

Therefore, the remedy to this is either forgoing any bass when cruising down
a highway, OR creating a bass system with enough subwoofers and power so
that you can still hear low bass when cruising at these higher speeds.

THAT is why I have two 15" subs and about 1000 watts to drive them. Not to
antagonize my neighbors, but so I can enjoy the full spectrum of frequencies
in my music when driving on the freeway. True, there will always be those
self-centered individuals who will take advantage of their loud cars to try
and impose their music on the world.

But going back to my previous statements in this thread, large woofers and
lots of power to do NOT equall a juvinile mindset. For me, it's simply the
love of the music.

MOSFET




"MOSFET" wrote in message
m...
OK, let me tell you something first before we get into brand names and who
makes the best subwoofer.

I have had, geez I have to think about this, 7 high quality systems in my
car ever since 1991. And by high quality, I mean top-notch gear and
proffesional installation (I used to have all my gear proffesionally
installed until about 8 years ago when I felt like I had learned enough to
do my own).

Anyway, what I learned over the course of these seven vehicles (and of
course, others) is that cabin size is EVERYTHING when you are talking
about bass. Nothing more dramitically brought this point home to me when
I transfered my entire system from a Nissan Stanza to a Subaru Forrester.
Now I had a pair of 12" JL 12W3's in a sealed box in the trunk of my
Stanza and a Soundstream Refference 700 (700 watts RMS) driving them. It
was LOUD!!!!!

When I transferred this to the Subaru I actually thought I would get MORE
bass as the subs would no longer be isolated in a trunk but would be open
to the main cabin, in the rear storage area.

I couldn't have been more wrong. Despite extensive experimenting with
placement, I got NO WHERE NEAR the quantity of bass in the larger Subaru
cabin vs. the much smaller Stanza.

The point I am making is that I have done many installations now for
myself and friends. In a truck cabin (I've done two trucks for friends),
a quality 8" subwoofer with enough power can, indeed, produce prodigous
amounts of bass thanks to the transfer function that is VERY pronounced in
the small cabin of a truck.

HOWEVER, even a very good 8" sub with lots of power in a minivan may leave
you disapointed. Again, I tell you this only because I have experienced
it first-hand. I understand you are not looking for a ground-pounder so
you can be heard coming three blocks away, BUT, my point is that if you
are going to go through all the hassle of installing an amp and subwoofer,
let me suggest you go with larger, or multiple subs. A pair of high
quality 10's would probably do the job nicely or AT LEAST a single 12" sub
(two would be even better). And again, I'm not thinking in terms of
waking your neighbors up, but the fact that the transfer function in a
minivan is NOT going to give your bass much of a boost. Anyway, that's my
$.02 on that matter.

AS far as quality subs, there are many quality sub makers out there these
days. Subwoofers have improved dramatically over the years, and a single
quality sub today can BLOW AWAY two subs of similar size made 10+ years
ago. Motor structures have advanced dramtically in size and cooling
methods have improved incredibly. Cone material is much more advanced
(lighter and stronger) allowing for greater pistonic movement, or Xmax.
Spider material today allows for a longer stroke, yet still keeps the cone
and former in alignment. I could go on, but you get my drift. In fact,
if I had to choose one component of a car audio system that has improved
the most in the last 10 years, I would say subwoofers without a moment's
hesitation (well, OK, the Class D amp certainly improved things for us
all).

MTX makes a really good subwoofer and I would strongly encourage you to
check out and listen to their line. Alpine also makes some outstanding
subwoofers, their Class R subs are truly amazing (and to think, 15 years
ago I scoffed at Japaneese speakers). JL, of course, continues to improve
and produce quality subwoofers as well. Though none of these subs are
exactly cheap, they won't break the bank either. Like anything else, you
get what you pay for but I would be confident that any one of these
manufactureres would produce a quality product, no matter how much you
choose to spend. In a nutshell, I guess these three would be on my
shortlist.

And keep in mind, I'm not saying this because I own them (you find in this
group that when the topic of the "best subs" comes up, coincendentally it
ALWAYS seems that whoever recommends a brand just happens to also use that
brand).

I don't use any of those three (though I did use MTX and JL for many
years, as well as Rockford Fosgate, but lately I have not been all that
impressed with their stuff) right now. I use a pair 15" subs in a sealed
box driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt RMS amp that some would likely
consider an "off-brand" subwoofer, but I love them to death so there!

Anyway, that's what I have to say on this matter, JL, MTX or Alpine and
you will most likely not be disapointed. AND, I would STRONGLY consider
going bit further than a single 8" sub in a minivan.

MOSFET


"Sharky" wrote in message
news:s7aDl.20825$Db2.9401@edtnps83...
Hi. I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few
decades, but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and
greatest. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up
a very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in
size. It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I
have been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my
Toyota Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). This box was only $5
including tax, and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as
well as a neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). It
actually isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself
boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and
probably add some filler. It suits my needs because of the fact that it
will slide directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms
way, and means I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear
(I leave the two rear seats out all the time), without worrying about
losing storage space or damaging the sub with my construction gear.
Installing under the middle seat will also make it much easier to route
power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer than
installing all the way to the rear of the van.

I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that
will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. I have an amplifier
that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-5100T.Support ,
currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used.
250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around
that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. The head unit is
an Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover
switching built-in. Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit
more before purchase. However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and
recordable DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest
monitors, which is something else I may look into down the road.

Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be
greatly appreciated. BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or
wake up the neighbours. I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music,
which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some
dance music. Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub
cannot have a huge magnet. The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the
weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup.

Thanks in advance,
Sharky





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Mister.Lull Mister.Lull is offline
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Posts: 143
Default Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp

Hi Sharky,

I would recommend JBL or some of the higher-end Rockford Fosgate lines
for what you're talking about.

I run a JBL GTO1004D 10" Sub in a ported (self-built) box, and I
couldn't be happier about it.
Here's a link to a JBL 8-inch that you may want to check out (and it's
only $80):http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...Grand-Touring-
Series-GTO804.html?tp=111.

I was checking out the amp you're planning on using and it doesn't
look like it's really meant to run anything at 2-ohms, so I'd stay
away from that - you may have already known, but I like to err on the
side of caution when it comes to dispensing advice...

Hope That Helps,
~Mister.Lull


On Apr 8, 4:08*pm, "Sharky" wrote:
Hi. *I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades,
but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest.
Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small
8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. *It is very
small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the
idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's
a mini-van, LOL). *This box was only $5 including tax, and is already
carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection,
if that were so desired (it's not). *It actually isn't built all that bad,
not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take
a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. *It suits my
needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row
seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the
van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time),
without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my
construction gear. *Installing under the middle seat will also make it much
easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer
than installing all the way to the rear of the van.

I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will
suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. *I have an amplifier that I
can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...Video/Amplifie...,
currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. *250-300
watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number
in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. *The head unit is an Almani
DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching
built-in. *Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before
purchase. *However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW
and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something
else I may look into down the road.

Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be
greatly appreciated. *BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or
wake up the neighbours. *I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music,
which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some
dance music. *Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub
cannot have a huge magnet. *The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the
weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup.

Thanks in advance,
Sharky


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Posted to rec.audio.car
Mister.Lull Mister.Lull is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp

Oh Jeez,

For some reason it cut off the hyperlink I pasted... Let's try that
again:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...04.html?tp=111

~Mister.Lull

On Apr 10, 2:31*pm, "Mister.Lull" wrote:
Hi Sharky,

I would recommend JBL or some of the higher-end Rockford Fosgate lines
for what you're talking about.

I run a JBL GTO1004D 10" Sub in a ported (self-built) box, and I
couldn't be happier about it.
Here's a link to a JBL 8-inch that you may want to check out (and it's
only $80):http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...Grand-Touring-
Series-GTO804.html?tp=111.

I was checking out the amp you're planning on using and it doesn't
look like it's really meant to run anything at 2-ohms, so I'd stay
away from that - you may have already known, but I like to err on the
side of caution when it comes to dispensing advice...

Hope That Helps,
~Mister.Lull

On Apr 8, 4:08*pm, "Sharky" wrote:



Hi. *I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades,
but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest..
Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small
8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. *It is very
small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the
idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's
a mini-van, LOL). *This box was only $5 including tax, and is already
carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection,
if that were so desired (it's not). *It actually isn't built all that bad,
not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take
a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. *It suits my
needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row
seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the
van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time),
without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my
construction gear. *Installing under the middle seat will also make it much
easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer
than installing all the way to the rear of the van.


I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will
suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. *I have an amplifier that I
can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...Video/Amplifie...,
currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. *250-300
watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number
in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. *The head unit is an Almani
DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching
built-in. *Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before
purchase. *However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW
and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something
else I may look into down the road.


Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be
greatly appreciated. *BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or
wake up the neighbours. *I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music,
which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some
dance music. *Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub
cannot have a huge magnet. *The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the
weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup.


Thanks in advance,
Sharky- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -




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Sharky Sharky is offline
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Posts: 13
Default Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp

Well, I had a look around a few shops for an 8" subwoofer this past Saturday
and found absolutely nothing! Mind you, I only looked in three shops and
two big box stores in the Valley. Of the three audio shops, two of the
salesmen told me they don't even stock 8" subwoofers anymore. One guy told
me he could order me in a Pyramid or a Pyle sub and I just about laughed in
his face. I think if I'm going to use an 8" sub, I may have to order it
online. Having said that, with a 12" Memphis Audio already installed in a
box and wired to that Pioneer amplifier, I may just have to give in and try
it in the van. I don't like the idea of losing space, but I do agree that
with such a large cabin volume to fill, it will act as a larger sub box and
probably demand that larger subwoofer. Now, it's just a matter of finding
time to actually pull the van into the garage and start tearing into it.
Biggest job will be running heavy gauge power wire through the firewall and
through to the mid-panel of the interior.

I may still have a look online for a subwoofer, but if I find one, it will
have to be located in Canada, and somewhere relatively close to me.
Otherwise, the shipping will be more cost than it is worth, on top of the
price of the sub.

Thanks for all of the suggestions.
Sharky

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GregS[_3_] GregS[_3_] is offline
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Posts: 664
Default Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp

In article LO7Fl.22036$Db2.19771@edtnps83, "Sharky" wrote:
Well, I had a look around a few shops for an 8" subwoofer this past Saturday
and found absolutely nothing! Mind you, I only looked in three shops and
two big box stores in the Valley. Of the three audio shops, two of the
salesmen told me they don't even stock 8" subwoofers anymore. One guy told
me he could order me in a Pyramid or a Pyle sub and I just about laughed in
his face. I think if I'm going to use an 8" sub, I may have to order it
online. Having said that, with a 12" Memphis Audio already installed in a
box and wired to that Pioneer amplifier, I may just have to give in and try
it in the van. I don't like the idea of losing space, but I do agree that
with such a large cabin volume to fill, it will act as a larger sub box and
probably demand that larger subwoofer. Now, it's just a matter of finding
time to actually pull the van into the garage and start tearing into it.
Biggest job will be running heavy gauge power wire through the firewall and
through to the mid-panel of the interior.

I may still have a look online for a subwoofer, but if I find one, it will
have to be located in Canada, and somewhere relatively close to me.
Otherwise, the shipping will be more cost than it is worth, on top of the
price of the sub.

Thanks for all of the suggestions.
Sharky


Crutchfield Canada ??

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