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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp
Hi. I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades,
but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). This box was only $5 including tax, and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). It actually isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. It suits my needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time), without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my construction gear. Installing under the middle seat will also make it much easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer than installing all the way to the rear of the van. I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. I have an amplifier that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T, http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-5100T.Support , currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. 250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. The head unit is an Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching built-in. Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before purchase. However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something else I may look into down the road. Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or wake up the neighbours. I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music, which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some dance music. Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub cannot have a huge magnet. The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup. Thanks in advance, Sharky |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp
OK, let me tell you something first before we get into brand names and who
makes the best subwoofer. I have had, geez I have to think about this, 7 high quality systems in my car ever since 1991. And by high quality, I mean top-notch gear and proffesional installation (I used to have all my gear proffesionally installed until about 8 years ago when I felt like I had learned enough to do my own). Anyway, what I learned over the course of these seven vehicles (and of course, others) is that cabin size is EVERYTHING when you are talking about bass. Nothing more dramitically brought this point home to me when I transfered my entire system from a Nissan Stanza to a Subaru Forrester. Now I had a pair of 12" JL 12W3's in a sealed box in the trunk of my Stanza and a Soundstream Refference 700 (700 watts RMS) driving them. It was LOUD!!!!! When I transferred this to the Subaru I actually thought I would get MORE bass as the subs would no longer be isolated in a trunk but would be open to the main cabin, in the rear storage area. I couldn't have been more wrong. Despite extensive experimenting with placement, I got NO WHERE NEAR the quantity of bass in the larger Subaru cabin vs. the much smaller Stanza. The point I am making is that I have done many installations now for myself and friends. In a truck cabin (I've done two trucks for friends), a quality 8" subwoofer with enough power can, indeed, produce prodigous amounts of bass thanks to the transfer function that is VERY pronounced in the small cabin of a truck. HOWEVER, even a very good 8" sub with lots of power in a minivan may leave you disapointed. Again, I tell you this only because I have experienced it first-hand. I understand you are not looking for a ground-pounder so you can be heard coming three blocks away, BUT, my point is that if you are going to go through all the hassle of installing an amp and subwoofer, let me suggest you go with larger, or multiple subs. A pair of high quality 10's would probably do the job nicely or AT LEAST a single 12" sub (two would be even better). And again, I'm not thinking in terms of waking your neighbors up, but the fact that the transfer function in a minivan is NOT going to give your bass much of a boost. Anyway, that's my $.02 on that matter. AS far as quality subs, there are many quality sub makers out there these days. Subwoofers have improved dramatically over the years, and a single quality sub today can BLOW AWAY two subs of similar size made 10+ years ago. Motor structures have advanced dramtically in size and cooling methods have improved incredibly. Cone material is much more advanced (lighter and stronger) allowing for greater pistonic movement, or Xmax. Spider material today allows for a longer stroke, yet still keeps the cone and former in alignment. I could go on, but you get my drift. In fact, if I had to choose one component of a car audio system that has improved the most in the last 10 years, I would say subwoofers without a moment's hesitation (well, OK, the Class D amp certainly improved things for us all). MTX makes a really good subwoofer and I would strongly encourage you to check out and listen to their line. Alpine also makes some outstanding subwoofers, their Class R subs are truly amazing (and to think, 15 years ago I scoffed at Japaneese speakers). JL, of course, continues to improve and produce quality subwoofers as well. Though none of these subs are exactly cheap, they won't break the bank either. Like anything else, you get what you pay for but I would be confident that any one of these manufactureres would produce a quality product, no matter how much you choose to spend. In a nutshell, I guess these three would be on my shortlist. And keep in mind, I'm not saying this because I own them (you find in this group that when the topic of the "best subs" comes up, coincendentally it ALWAYS seems that whoever recommends a brand just happens to also use that brand). I don't use any of those three (though I did use MTX and JL for many years, as well as Rockford Fosgate, but lately I have not been all that impressed with their stuff) right now. I use a pair 15" subs in a sealed box driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt RMS amp that some would likely consider an "off-brand" subwoofer, but I love them to death so there! Anyway, that's what I have to say on this matter, JL, MTX or Alpine and you will most likely not be disapointed. AND, I would STRONGLY consider going bit further than a single 8" sub in a minivan. MOSFET "Sharky" wrote in message news:s7aDl.20825$Db2.9401@edtnps83... Hi. I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades, but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). This box was only $5 including tax, and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). It actually isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. It suits my needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time), without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my construction gear. Installing under the middle seat will also make it much easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer than installing all the way to the rear of the van. I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. I have an amplifier that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T, http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-5100T.Support , currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. 250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. The head unit is an Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching built-in. Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before purchase. However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something else I may look into down the road. Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or wake up the neighbours. I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music, which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some dance music. Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub cannot have a huge magnet. The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup. Thanks in advance, Sharky |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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One more thing.....
Lay people often wonder why folks put multiple large woofers in there cars.
They incorrectly assume that it has to do with the driver's desire to announce one's pressence 6 blocks away and therefore demonstrates a childish immaturity on the part of the car owner. I WILL concede that the transfer function often gives you louder bass in a car than a comparable set of subs and power in a home system. HOWEVER, what many people DO NOT understand is that road noise and engine noise, especially cruising down a freeway, has the unpleasant effect of droaning out a great deal of bass. It's this drone of tires and engine that often causes bass to attenuate to the point of complete cancelation! Therefore, the remedy to this is either forgoing any bass when cruising down a highway, OR creating a bass system with enough subwoofers and power so that you can still hear low bass when cruising at these higher speeds. THAT is why I have two 15" subs and about 1000 watts to drive them. Not to antagonize my neighbors, but so I can enjoy the full spectrum of frequencies in my music when driving on the freeway. True, there will always be those self-centered individuals who will take advantage of their loud cars to try and impose their music on the world. But going back to my previous statements in this thread, large woofers and lots of power to do NOT equall a juvinile mindset. For me, it's simply the love of the music. MOSFET "MOSFET" wrote in message m... OK, let me tell you something first before we get into brand names and who makes the best subwoofer. I have had, geez I have to think about this, 7 high quality systems in my car ever since 1991. And by high quality, I mean top-notch gear and proffesional installation (I used to have all my gear proffesionally installed until about 8 years ago when I felt like I had learned enough to do my own). Anyway, what I learned over the course of these seven vehicles (and of course, others) is that cabin size is EVERYTHING when you are talking about bass. Nothing more dramitically brought this point home to me when I transfered my entire system from a Nissan Stanza to a Subaru Forrester. Now I had a pair of 12" JL 12W3's in a sealed box in the trunk of my Stanza and a Soundstream Refference 700 (700 watts RMS) driving them. It was LOUD!!!!! When I transferred this to the Subaru I actually thought I would get MORE bass as the subs would no longer be isolated in a trunk but would be open to the main cabin, in the rear storage area. I couldn't have been more wrong. Despite extensive experimenting with placement, I got NO WHERE NEAR the quantity of bass in the larger Subaru cabin vs. the much smaller Stanza. The point I am making is that I have done many installations now for myself and friends. In a truck cabin (I've done two trucks for friends), a quality 8" subwoofer with enough power can, indeed, produce prodigous amounts of bass thanks to the transfer function that is VERY pronounced in the small cabin of a truck. HOWEVER, even a very good 8" sub with lots of power in a minivan may leave you disapointed. Again, I tell you this only because I have experienced it first-hand. I understand you are not looking for a ground-pounder so you can be heard coming three blocks away, BUT, my point is that if you are going to go through all the hassle of installing an amp and subwoofer, let me suggest you go with larger, or multiple subs. A pair of high quality 10's would probably do the job nicely or AT LEAST a single 12" sub (two would be even better). And again, I'm not thinking in terms of waking your neighbors up, but the fact that the transfer function in a minivan is NOT going to give your bass much of a boost. Anyway, that's my $.02 on that matter. AS far as quality subs, there are many quality sub makers out there these days. Subwoofers have improved dramatically over the years, and a single quality sub today can BLOW AWAY two subs of similar size made 10+ years ago. Motor structures have advanced dramtically in size and cooling methods have improved incredibly. Cone material is much more advanced (lighter and stronger) allowing for greater pistonic movement, or Xmax. Spider material today allows for a longer stroke, yet still keeps the cone and former in alignment. I could go on, but you get my drift. In fact, if I had to choose one component of a car audio system that has improved the most in the last 10 years, I would say subwoofers without a moment's hesitation (well, OK, the Class D amp certainly improved things for us all). MTX makes a really good subwoofer and I would strongly encourage you to check out and listen to their line. Alpine also makes some outstanding subwoofers, their Class R subs are truly amazing (and to think, 15 years ago I scoffed at Japaneese speakers). JL, of course, continues to improve and produce quality subwoofers as well. Though none of these subs are exactly cheap, they won't break the bank either. Like anything else, you get what you pay for but I would be confident that any one of these manufactureres would produce a quality product, no matter how much you choose to spend. In a nutshell, I guess these three would be on my shortlist. And keep in mind, I'm not saying this because I own them (you find in this group that when the topic of the "best subs" comes up, coincendentally it ALWAYS seems that whoever recommends a brand just happens to also use that brand). I don't use any of those three (though I did use MTX and JL for many years, as well as Rockford Fosgate, but lately I have not been all that impressed with their stuff) right now. I use a pair 15" subs in a sealed box driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt RMS amp that some would likely consider an "off-brand" subwoofer, but I love them to death so there! Anyway, that's what I have to say on this matter, JL, MTX or Alpine and you will most likely not be disapointed. AND, I would STRONGLY consider going bit further than a single 8" sub in a minivan. MOSFET "Sharky" wrote in message news:s7aDl.20825$Db2.9401@edtnps83... Hi. I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades, but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). This box was only $5 including tax, and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). It actually isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. It suits my needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time), without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my construction gear. Installing under the middle seat will also make it much easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer than installing all the way to the rear of the van. I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. I have an amplifier that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T, http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-5100T.Support , currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. 250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. The head unit is an Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching built-in. Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before purchase. However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something else I may look into down the road. Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or wake up the neighbours. I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music, which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some dance music. Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub cannot have a huge magnet. The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup. Thanks in advance, Sharky |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp
Hi Sharky,
I would recommend JBL or some of the higher-end Rockford Fosgate lines for what you're talking about. I run a JBL GTO1004D 10" Sub in a ported (self-built) box, and I couldn't be happier about it. Here's a link to a JBL 8-inch that you may want to check out (and it's only $80):http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...Grand-Touring- Series-GTO804.html?tp=111. I was checking out the amp you're planning on using and it doesn't look like it's really meant to run anything at 2-ohms, so I'd stay away from that - you may have already known, but I like to err on the side of caution when it comes to dispensing advice... Hope That Helps, ~Mister.Lull On Apr 8, 4:08*pm, "Sharky" wrote: Hi. *I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades, but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. *It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). *This box was only $5 including tax, and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). *It actually isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. *It suits my needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time), without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my construction gear. *Installing under the middle seat will also make it much easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer than installing all the way to the rear of the van. I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. *I have an amplifier that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...Video/Amplifie..., currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. *250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. *The head unit is an Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching built-in. *Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before purchase. *However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something else I may look into down the road. Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be greatly appreciated. *BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or wake up the neighbours. *I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music, which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some dance music. *Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub cannot have a huge magnet. *The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup. Thanks in advance, Sharky |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp
Oh Jeez,
For some reason it cut off the hyperlink I pasted... Let's try that again: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...04.html?tp=111 ~Mister.Lull On Apr 10, 2:31*pm, "Mister.Lull" wrote: Hi Sharky, I would recommend JBL or some of the higher-end Rockford Fosgate lines for what you're talking about. I run a JBL GTO1004D 10" Sub in a ported (self-built) box, and I couldn't be happier about it. Here's a link to a JBL 8-inch that you may want to check out (and it's only $80):http://www.crutchfield.com/p_109GTO8...Grand-Touring- Series-GTO804.html?tp=111. I was checking out the amp you're planning on using and it doesn't look like it's really meant to run anything at 2-ohms, so I'd stay away from that - you may have already known, but I like to err on the side of caution when it comes to dispensing advice... Hope That Helps, ~Mister.Lull On Apr 8, 4:08*pm, "Sharky" wrote: Hi. *I've been in and out of the car audio scene over the last few decades, but lately, have not been keeping up on what is the newest and greatest.. Recently, I was shopping around at Princess Auto and picked up a very small 8" subwoofer enclosure, probably around 0.35-0.4 cu.ft. in size. *It is very small, but the reason it caught my eye is because I have been pondering the idea of installing a smaller sub enclosure in my Toyota Sienna (yes, that's a mini-van, LOL). *This box was only $5 including tax, and is already carpeted and pre-wired for one speaker, as well as a neon-ring connection, if that were so desired (it's not). *It actually isn't built all that bad, not like the foldout build it-yourself boxes from Wal-mart, but I will take a caulking gun to the joints and probably add some filler. *It suits my needs because of the fact that it will slide directly under the middle row seat where it is out of harms way, and means I can still use the rear of the van for my tools and gear (I leave the two rear seats out all the time), without worrying about losing storage space or damaging the sub with my construction gear. *Installing under the middle seat will also make it much easier to route power and RCA leads to the amplifier, because it is closer than installing all the way to the rear of the van. I'm looking for some recommendations on a mid to good quality sub that will suit this box, and still sound somewhat decent. *I have an amplifier that I can use, which is a Pioneer GM 5100T,http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...Video/Amplifie..., currently it is mated to a MA Audio 12" sub that is not being used. *250-300 watts RMS would be more than plenty, but I'd like to stay around that number in case I do use the Pioneer to power it. *The head unit is an Almani DVT-909, which has subwoofer volume control and crossover switching built-in. *Not a bad unit, but I wish I had researched it a bit more before purchase. *However, it is capable of playing DVDs, and recordable DVD-/+RW and has two sets of A/V outputs for headrest monitors, which is something else I may look into down the road. Any recommendations on a 8" subwoofer that would suit my needs would be greatly appreciated. *BTW, I am not looking to rattle the windows out or wake up the neighbours. *I'd just like to add a bit of punch to my music, which can vary anywhere from heavy metal, to rock, to rap, and even some dance music. *Also, the install clearance for the box is 4.5", so the sub cannot have a huge magnet. *The van is a family vehicle, mostly on the weekends, so I can't go too outrageous with my setup. Thanks in advance, Sharky- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp
Well, I had a look around a few shops for an 8" subwoofer this past Saturday
and found absolutely nothing! Mind you, I only looked in three shops and two big box stores in the Valley. Of the three audio shops, two of the salesmen told me they don't even stock 8" subwoofers anymore. One guy told me he could order me in a Pyramid or a Pyle sub and I just about laughed in his face. I think if I'm going to use an 8" sub, I may have to order it online. Having said that, with a 12" Memphis Audio already installed in a box and wired to that Pioneer amplifier, I may just have to give in and try it in the van. I don't like the idea of losing space, but I do agree that with such a large cabin volume to fill, it will act as a larger sub box and probably demand that larger subwoofer. Now, it's just a matter of finding time to actually pull the van into the garage and start tearing into it. Biggest job will be running heavy gauge power wire through the firewall and through to the mid-panel of the interior. I may still have a look online for a subwoofer, but if I find one, it will have to be located in Canada, and somewhere relatively close to me. Otherwise, the shipping will be more cost than it is worth, on top of the price of the sub. Thanks for all of the suggestions. Sharky |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Recommendations, 8" subwoofer and possibly amp
In article LO7Fl.22036$Db2.19771@edtnps83, "Sharky" wrote:
Well, I had a look around a few shops for an 8" subwoofer this past Saturday and found absolutely nothing! Mind you, I only looked in three shops and two big box stores in the Valley. Of the three audio shops, two of the salesmen told me they don't even stock 8" subwoofers anymore. One guy told me he could order me in a Pyramid or a Pyle sub and I just about laughed in his face. I think if I'm going to use an 8" sub, I may have to order it online. Having said that, with a 12" Memphis Audio already installed in a box and wired to that Pioneer amplifier, I may just have to give in and try it in the van. I don't like the idea of losing space, but I do agree that with such a large cabin volume to fill, it will act as a larger sub box and probably demand that larger subwoofer. Now, it's just a matter of finding time to actually pull the van into the garage and start tearing into it. Biggest job will be running heavy gauge power wire through the firewall and through to the mid-panel of the interior. I may still have a look online for a subwoofer, but if I find one, it will have to be located in Canada, and somewhere relatively close to me. Otherwise, the shipping will be more cost than it is worth, on top of the price of the sub. Thanks for all of the suggestions. Sharky Crutchfield Canada ?? |
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