[BarNash]

Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:11:49 +0200, "BarNash"
wrote:

Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC


I think you need to work out what your question really means, because
there is no such thing as "tube sound". There is the sound of the
gentle bend of a triode, there is the sound of a beam tetrode in push
pull, or a tetrode in ultralinear push-pull. And all of these "sounds"
have variations dependent on actual circuit conditions and
configurations (not the least variation being the transformer itself).

So if what you are saying is that you want something a bit distorted,
decide what distortion curve (transfer function) you like, and select
a topology that will deliver that. Neither of the options you present
above comes with any kind of guarantee that you will end up with what
you are after.

d

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:11:49 +0200, "BarNash"
wrote:

Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC


I think you need to work out what your question really means, because
there is no such thing as "tube sound". There is the sound of the
gentle bend of a triode, there is the sound of a beam tetrode in push
pull, or a tetrode in ultralinear push-pull. And all of these "sounds"
have variations dependent on actual circuit conditions and
configurations (not the least variation being the transformer itself).

So if what you are saying is that you want something a bit distorted,
decide what distortion curve (transfer function) you like, and select
a topology that will deliver that. Neither of the options you present
above comes with any kind of guarantee that you will end up with what
you are after.

d


However, since distortion in tubes is level dependent, it does suggest
you will get more 'tube sound' with a tube power amp rather than an SS one.

Cheers

Ian

[BarNash]

Thanks
EC


"Don Pearce" ??? ??????:4a52c295.2005041859@localhost...
On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:11:49 +0200, "BarNash"
wrote:

Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC


I think you need to work out what your question really means, because
there is no such thing as "tube sound". There is the sound of the
gentle bend of a triode, there is the sound of a beam tetrode in push
pull, or a tetrode in ultralinear push-pull. And all of these "sounds"
have variations dependent on actual circuit conditions and
configurations (not the least variation being the transformer itself).

So if what you are saying is that you want something a bit distorted,
decide what distortion curve (transfer function) you like, and select
a topology that will deliver that. Neither of the options you present
above comes with any kind of guarantee that you will end up with what
you are after.

d

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:51:48 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:11:49 +0200, "BarNash"
wrote:

Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC


I think you need to work out what your question really means, because
there is no such thing as "tube sound". There is the sound of the
gentle bend of a triode, there is the sound of a beam tetrode in push
pull, or a tetrode in ultralinear push-pull. And all of these "sounds"
have variations dependent on actual circuit conditions and
configurations (not the least variation being the transformer itself).

So if what you are saying is that you want something a bit distorted,
decide what distortion curve (transfer function) you like, and select
a topology that will deliver that. Neither of the options you present
above comes with any kind of guarantee that you will end up with what
you are after.

d


However, since distortion in tubes is level dependent, it does suggest
you will get more 'tube sound' with a tube power amp rather than an SS one.


You can choose any level you like within any technology or topology
you like, so that has nothing to say about SS and tube. In other
words, it is just as easy to overdrive a preamp as it is a power amp
(rather easier, in fact).

d

[Alex]

"BarNash" wrote in message
...
Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC

I think the best is a tube low power amp followed by a quality SS power
amplifier.
The tube section of the amplifier shall be relatively low power, say
comprising a 12AX7 and EL84. This amp shall not work into a loudspeaker, but
rather into a dummy load. Then an attenuator shall be connected between this
tube amp and the solid state one, so that the SS amp never overloads even if
the tube section is driven to compression. Thus the SS part only scales up
the tube part to the required output power, depending on the size of your
room and efficiency of the speakers. The SS part thus never contributes into
distorting the sound, only the tube part does it adding:
-distortion;
- hum;
- flicker noise,
- transformer saturation;
- limited bandwidth;
- and other atrefacts so desired by the tube lovers, up to individual
tastes.

Beauty of this design is that you can experiment with the tube section,
trying various topologies, pentode, triode connection, NFB, no NFB,
different mu-followers, etc. -- and only within of 1...2W of tube output and
inexpensively. Once you obtained lovely soulnd, scale up output power by a
SS output lineal amp which never overdrives. You will be able to get on only
a sweet, but strong impressive sound at the same time. and without
super-expensive full-tube boatanchor equipment.

Regards,
Alex

[Atsunori Tamagawa]

BarNash wrote:
Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

Do you care about general outlook of tube amps?
I ask this because I do care that a lot. I think visual impression
that I get from tubes has been affecting how I enjoy the sound.
So somehow most amps that built in the past were power amplifiers
with big tubes. It shouldn't matter, and doesn't matter to how they
sound, but somehow it does to me.

Atsunori

[Bret L]

Build whatever turns your turbines.

[Engineer[_2_]]

On Jul 6, 7:19*am, "Alex" wrote:
"BarNash" wrote in message

...

Hi all
From long time I wonder which optuion is better , meaning denotes a more
"TUBE SOUND"

1 Preamp based on tubes and power SS

2 Preamp based on SS and power based on tubes

I prefer the 1st option because SS power is easire to build and no need to
PP transformer .

What do you think ?

Thanks
EC

I think the best is a tube low power amp followed by a quality SS power
amplifier.
The tube section of the amplifier shall be relatively low power, say
comprising a 12AX7 and EL84. This amp shall not work into a loudspeaker, but
rather into a dummy load. Then an attenuator shall be connected between this
tube amp and the solid state one, so that the SS amp never overloads even if
the tube section is driven to compression. Thus the SS part only scales up
the tube part to the required output power, depending on the size of your
room and efficiency of the speakers. The SS part thus never contributes into
distorting the sound, only the tube part does it adding:
-distortion;
- hum;
- flicker noise,
- transformer saturation;
- limited bandwidth;
- and other atrefacts so desired by the tube lovers, up to individual
tastes.

Beauty of this design is that you can experiment with the tube section,
trying various topologies, pentode, triode connection, NFB, no NFB,
different mu-followers, etc. -- and only within of 1...2W of tube output and
inexpensively. Once you obtained lovely soulnd, scale up output power by a
SS output lineal amp which never overdrives. You will be able to get on only
a sweet, but strong impressive sound at the same time. and without
super-expensive full-tube boatanchor equipment.

Regards,
Alex

Alex, a very interesting notion... in summary, set up a distorting
tube amp within a solid state system (a "thick, straight wire with
gain"), then play with the tube amp distortion until it sounds bad
enough... er, has that tube sound!
I build tube amps for fun and history (admire the iron, see the tubes
glow!), and to see how close I can get to that "straight wire..." For
actual listening I use a powerful, high-end solid state amp that adds
and subtracts nothing ("zero" THD, flat to 100 KHz, -95 dB SNR, etc),
so that only the source and the speakers matter.
Cheers,
Roger