[bob]

Tom Petty's old band has come up with a way to get around the loudness
wars: The vinyl album comes with a CD—mastered the same way the LP
was, with higher dynamic range. (Yes, it's pathetic that they won't
release a CD with even the dynamic range of an LP, but that seems to
be the way of the world these days.) More details he
http://snipurl.com/2ns83

bob

[Steven Sullivan]

bob wrote:
Tom Petty's old band has come up with a way to get around the loudness
wars: The vinyl album comes with a CD?mastered the same way the LP
was, with higher dynamic range. (Yes, it's pathetic that they won't
release a CD with even the dynamic range of an LP, but that seems to
be the way of the world these days.) More details he
http://snipurl.com/2ns83

To be clear, this means that in the name of better sound, they have gone
back to a practice discredited in the 80s -- sourcing CDs from
LP production masters. That practice was what led to 'remastering'
in the first place.

Just shows how bad things have gotten in the world of CD mastering.

They *could* have just made CD from the original full-range masters,
and not applied digital compression. But nooooooo..they had use the
'vinyl' gimmick.

--
-S
Poe's Law: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humorous
intent, it is impossible to create a parody of a religious Fundamentalist that
SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.

[bob]

On Jun 30, 8:30*pm, Steven Sullivan wrote:

They *could* have just made CD from the original full-range masters,
and not applied digital compression. But nooooooo..they had use the
'vinyl' gimmick.

That's because the high priests of the high end have insisted for a
couple of decades now that CD just wasn't sufficient. So there isn't
even much of a niche market for a well-mastered CD. Instead, we chase
after the next thing—hi-rez digital—or go on a nostalgia trip for the
last thing—vinyl. The recordings may be better, but it's because of
the mastering, not the medium. A more rational market would give us a
choice between low-dynamic range MP3s and high-dynamic range CDs or
lossless files.

bob

[C. Leeds]

nabob wrote:

That's because the high priests of the high end have insisted for a
couple of decades now that CD just wasn't sufficient. So there isn't
even much of a niche market for a well-mastered CD.

This is silly. There are no such "high priests of high end audio." And
even if such figures existed, the high end lacks the clout to influence
the entire CD market.

In fact, there is a healthy niche for well-recorded, well-mastered CDs.
It's the high end market that supports these products.

A more rational market would give us a
choice between low-dynamic range MP3s and high-dynamic range CDs or
lossless files.

You already have that choice.

[bob]

On Jul 2, 7:14*pm, "C. Leeds" wrote:
nabob wrote:
That's because the high priests of the high end have insisted for a
couple of decades now that CD just wasn't sufficient. So there isn't
even much of a niche market for a well-mastered CD.

This is silly. There are no such "high priests of high end audio."

Oh, come on. You've never heard it said that CD isn't sufficient? Who
was promoting SACD and DVD-A? Who's been promoting vinyl as superior
to CD?

CD, done right, is as good as it gets. But the high-enders won't
accept that, so instead of demanding "CD done right," they insist on
some other medium (which, it should be noted, costs more to produce
but isn't any better). So the companies that cater to these audiophile
oblige, by giving them SACD, or vinyl, instead of just making a CD
that sounds as good.

This Mudcrutch album is a perfect example. You cannot buy a decent CD
of it—unless you're willing to accept an oversized piece of black
plastic along with it. Why?

And
even if such figures existed, the high end lacks the clout to influence
the entire CD market.

Who's talking about the entire market? I'm talking about the niche
audiophile market. If audiophiles were decently informed about audio,
they would be quite capable of demanding—and getting—high-quality CDs.

In fact, there is a healthy niche for well-recorded, well-mastered CDs.
It's the high end market that supports these products.

* A more rational market would give us a

choice between low-dynamic range MP3s and high-dynamic range CDs or
lossless files.

You already have that choice.

On what planet? Pick up a catalog from Music Direct or Acoustic
Sounds. What percentage of their product line is CD? SACD? Vinyl? The
audiophile market is predominantly alternative media. The idea that in
order to get a recording with decent dynamic range I have to buy the
vinyl version is just nuts. But there aren't enough audiophiles
demanding CDs with decent dynamic range, so they don't get made.

bob

[Stephen McElroy]

In article , bob
wrote:

This Mudcrutch album is a perfect example. You cannot buy a decent CD
of it—unless you're willing to accept an oversized piece of black
plastic along with it. Why?

Make that two oversized pieces of black plastic: it's a double lp set.

Stephen

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:08:00 -0700, bob wrote
(in article ):

On Jul 2, 7:14*pm, "C. Leeds" wrote:
nabob wrote:
That's because the high priests of the high end have insisted for a
couple of decades now that CD just wasn't sufficient. So there isn't
even much of a niche market for a well-mastered CD.

This is silly. There are no such "high priests of high end audio."

Oh, come on. You've never heard it said that CD isn't sufficient? Who
was promoting SACD and DVD-A? Who's been promoting vinyl as superior
to CD?

CD, done right, is as good as it gets. But the high-enders won't
accept that, so instead of demanding "CD done right," they insist on
some other medium (which, it should be noted, costs more to produce
but isn't any better). So the companies that cater to these audiophile
oblige, by giving them SACD, or vinyl, instead of just making a CD
that sounds as good.

This Mudcrutch album is a perfect example. You cannot buy a decent CD
of it—unless you're willing to accept an oversized piece of black
plastic along with it. Why?

And
even if such figures existed, the high end lacks the clout to influence
the entire CD market.

Who's talking about the entire market? I'm talking about the niche
audiophile market. If audiophiles were decently informed about audio,
they would be quite capable of demanding—and getting—high-quality CDs.

Mythology and religion is hard to fight. In many audiophile's minds, the
equivalent of "cartoon physics" is practiced as if real. All amps sound
different (used to be somewhat true in the early transistor era, not so true
any more), Expensive, outboard D/A converters sound better than the ones in
the player, a $4000/meter pair of interconnects from Nordost sounds better
than a $2 pair of Radio Shack molded interconnects*, Mytlewood blocks placed
on top of components make them sound better, garden-hosed sized speaker
cables sound best if lifted off the carpet by ceramic cable "elevators" and
George Tice's "treated" clock makes the stereo system sound better. People
who believe this stuff merely assume that the more bits and the higher the
sample-rate the better. It makes sense on a " more-is-better" basis, It's
just that in digital quantization, more than sufficient doesn't seem to buy
one much.

*I worked, for my first three years out of engineering school, in the
Lockheed Cable Lab researching the properties of cable and insulation for
aerospace applications. I became quite expert at the electronic theory
associated with conductors of electricity at all frequencies - from DC up
into microwave wave-guide territory. assuming no radiated hum, there is
nothing that a pair of interconnects, regardless of their cost, can do with a
signal in the audio range that cannot be done equally well by a couple of
pieces of coat-hanger wire. Buy well made interconnects with tight-fitting
barrels which are wired quasi-balanced (for total signal shielding from
outside interference sources) and forget about cable "sound".

In fact, there is a healthy niche for well-recorded, well-mastered CDs.
It's the high end market that supports these products.

* A more rational market would give us a

choice between low-dynamic range MP3s and high-dynamic range CDs or
lossless files.

You already have that choice.

On what planet? Pick up a catalog from Music Direct or Acoustic
Sounds. What percentage of their product line is CD? SACD? Vinyl? The
audiophile market is predominantly alternative media. The idea that in
order to get a recording with decent dynamic range I have to buy the
vinyl version is just nuts. But there aren't enough audiophiles
demanding CDs with decent dynamic range, so they don't get made.

I think Mr. Leeds meant generally, not specifically. Most pop titles are
available as MP3s from Apple or other music services and the same
performances are available on CD and many are available as lossless and even
high-rez downloads from some sites.

bob

[---MIKE---]

I have some CDs and SACDs that have too much dynamic range. An example
is the BIS Beethoven symphony series with Vanska. The soft sections are
so soft that if the volume is raised to hear them, the loud sections are
overpowering. I live in the sticks where there is no ambient noise that
would "cover" the soft sections. These would be impossible to listen to
in a car.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

[Sonnova]

On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:03:10 -0700, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

I have some CDs and SACDs that have too much dynamic range. An example
is the BIS Beethoven symphony series with Vanska. The soft sections are
so soft that if the volume is raised to hear them, the loud sections are
overpowering. I live in the sticks where there is no ambient noise that
would "cover" the soft sections. These would be impossible to listen to
in a car.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


I've often thought that all car radios should incorporate a variable
compressor that could be invoked by the listener for any source with a knob
on it which would be able to increase the amount of compression from none to
full. While I wouldn't want this on my home stereo, in a car, it's
practically de riguer. OTOH, I've never heard of any car stereo makes ever
including one.

[C. Leeds]

nabob wrote:

That's because the high priests of the high end have insisted for a
couple of decades now that CD just wasn't sufficient. So there isn't
even much of a niche market for a well-mastered CD.

I answered:

This is silly. There are no such "high priests of high end audio."

now nabob says:

CD, done right, is as good as it gets. But the high-enders won't
accept that, so instead of demanding "CD done right," they insist on
some other medium....

But it doesn't matter what high-enders demand. The CD market caters to
the mass market, not the high-end.

Who's talking about the entire market? I'm talking about the niche
audiophile market. If audiophiles were decently informed about audio,
they would be quite capable of demanding—and getting—high-quality CDs.

There are many high quality CDs on the market. There's lots of junk,
too. It's always been that way with recorded music.

[C. Leeds]

---MIKE--- wrote:
...I live in the sticks where there is no ambient noise that
would "cover" the soft sections.

There is ambient noise everywhere.

[bob]

On Jul 6, 10:25*am, Sonnova wrote:

I've often thought that all car radios should incorporate a variable
compressor that could be invoked by the listener for any source with a knob
on it which would be able to increase the amount of compression from none to
full. While I wouldn't want this on my home stereo, in a car, it's
practically de riguer. OTOH, I've never heard of any car stereo makes ever
including one.

The factory-installed unit on my 2007 Ford Fusion has this feature,
although I haven't tried it out yet.

bob

[John[_37_]]

In article ,
Sonnova wrote:

Expensive, outboard D/A converters sound better than the ones in
the player,

sorry, different a/d and d/a conveters do have differing performance and
some are significantly better than others. that's not to say that the
audiophools still don't get suckered by overpriced crap but in the
professional arena, there are significant differences between conversion
devices even within a given manufacturers product line.

at the same time i am fascinated and humored by the folks who buy the
esoteric power cable to go in their IEC connection on the device end and
the wall plug on the other. a well placed ferrite bead or two would do
better but they don't know that.

[bob]

On Jul 6, 10:30*am, "C. Leeds" wrote:
nabob wrote:

CD, done right, is as good as it gets. But the high-enders won't
accept that, so instead of demanding "CD done right," they insist on
some other medium....

But it doesn't matter what high-enders demand. The CD market caters to
the mass market, not the high-end.

I'm not talking about the mass market; I'm talking about the
audiophile recording market. See my reference to Acoustic Sounds and
Music Direct. Those catalogs are full of SACDs and 180g vinyl, because
audiophiles have been spoon-fed the idea that it's the medium that
makes a good recording, and those are the media that Stereophile and
The Absolute Sound tell them sound best.

Now imagine an alternate world where Sphile and TAS had decided to put
honesty above profit (yeah, I know), and told audiophiles that new
gear wasn't going to solve the problems of the conventional CD. That
instead of putting $3000 into a new disk player, they should put $3000
into the best-mastered CDs they could find, from labels dedicated to
quality recordings. What would the Music Direct catalog look like
today?

bob

[Sonnova]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 07:30:21 -0700, C. Leeds wrote
(in article ):

nabob wrote:

That's because the high priests of the high end have insisted for a
couple of decades now that CD just wasn't sufficient. So there isn't
even much of a niche market for a well-mastered CD.

I answered:

This is silly. There are no such "high priests of high end audio."

now nabob says:

CD, done right, is as good as it gets. But the high-enders won't
accept that, so instead of demanding "CD done right," they insist on
some other medium....

But it doesn't matter what high-enders demand. The CD market caters to
the mass market, not the high-end.

Who's talking about the entire market? I'm talking about the niche
audiophile market. If audiophiles were decently informed about audio,
they would be quite capable of demanding—and getting—high-quality CDs.

There are many high quality CDs on the market. There's lots of junk,
too. It's always been that way with recorded music.

You are quite correct, it's always been that way. I have about 2000 LPs -
mostly classical music. Out of those, perhaps 10% are well recorded, and only
2-3% are really superb. By superb, I mean close to as good as vinyl gets. One
place where the CD has it all over vinyl is in the area of manufacturing
defects. While one rarely encounters CDs that are defective "out-of-the-box",
in the vinyl era, defective discs were quite common and with a myriad of sins
as well. LPs suffered under-fill (where not enough raw vinyl went into the
press to fill all the grooves properly) to off-center holes, to records that
were packaged too quickly after pressing and so were permanently warped. Then
there were records where the something went wrong in the vinyl mix or they
used too much recycled vinyl in the mix and the records were noisy. Many
times the presses weren't at the correct temperature making the vinyl "mealy"
and giving the finished disc a gray appearance - these were always noisy. But
also, many records were simply cut indifferently or cut from poor masters. In
the 1960's and 1970's, EMI was mastering and pressing their classical titles
for the American market here in the States. SInce EMI had purchased Capitol
Records, they used that companies facilities to produce their impressive
classical library. EMI called their US classical label, "Angel" because
their domestic (British) trademark ("Little Nipper" looking into the
gramophone horn) belonged to and was being used by another company (RCA
Victor) in this country. I soon learned to eschew the Angel pressed versions
of EMI titles and go directly for the British pressings. Luckily, one could
buy the british pressing or most releases from an importer who placed a gold
sticker over the EMI dog-and-horn logo which read "Odeon". The difference
between the British product and the American product was almost unbelievable!
The US Angel pressing sounded terrible - almost always, while the British
pressings were damned nigh perfect. I never got a defective one nor did I
ever get one which sounded other than first-rate. I may not have agreed with
the microphone technique used (these were the days of extreme multi-miking,
after all) but I couldn't fault the mastering or pressing quality. When I
complained to Capitol, they insisted that the Angel releases should sound
identical to the British product, but a chance encounter with Doug Sax many
years later had him telling a different story. He said that EMI's cutting
masters sounded identical to the ones that EMI used, but that Capitol
management insisted that the tapes be re-eq'ed for "American tastes." Sax
also said that Capitol had extreme quality control issues with their pressing
plants that they were never able to solve. Anyway, as a result, my collection
is filled with British and European EMI pressings instead of the awful
Angels.

[Codifus]

Sonnova wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:03:10 -0700, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

I have some CDs and SACDs that have too much dynamic range. An example
is the BIS Beethoven symphony series with Vanska. The soft sections are
so soft that if the volume is raised to hear them, the loud sections are
overpowering. I live in the sticks where there is no ambient noise that
would "cover" the soft sections. These would be impossible to listen to
in a car.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


I've often thought that all car radios should incorporate a variable
compressor that could be invoked by the listener for any source with a knob
on it which would be able to increase the amount of compression from none to
full. While I wouldn't want this on my home stereo, in a car, it's
practically de riguer. OTOH, I've never heard of any car stereo makes ever
including one.

Today's cars have automatic volume controls which raise/reduce the
volume according how much road noise is present. It's a step in the
right direction. As electronic circuitry gets cheaper and cheaper, I'm
sure the car audio manufacturers will start to incorporate compression
schemes within their systems.

But then, how many people would even appreciate that feature? Just like
high end audio, it's a niche/small market that won't get much attention
from the marketers.

Bose car audio systems have sophisticated volume circuits since each
speaker of Bose car audio system has its own amplifier and EQ. They may
be the 1st to implement compression technology. They sure do know how to
market whatever they bring out

Though I am not much of a fan of Bose home audio, I can not sing the
praises enough for Bose car audio. Their compromise engineering and the
less than ideal car audio environment are a match made in heaven.

CD

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:46:22 -0700, Codifus wrote
(in article ):

Sonnova wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:03:10 -0700, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

I have some CDs and SACDs that have too much dynamic range. An example
is the BIS Beethoven symphony series with Vanska. The soft sections are
so soft that if the volume is raised to hear them, the loud sections are
overpowering. I live in the sticks where there is no ambient noise that
would "cover" the soft sections. These would be impossible to listen to
in a car.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


I've often thought that all car radios should incorporate a variable
compressor that could be invoked by the listener for any source with a knob
on it which would be able to increase the amount of compression from none
to
full. While I wouldn't want this on my home stereo, in a car, it's
practically de riguer. OTOH, I've never heard of any car stereo makes ever
including one.

Today's cars have automatic volume controls which raise/reduce the
volume according how much road noise is present. It's a step in the
right direction. As electronic circuitry gets cheaper and cheaper, I'm
sure the car audio manufacturers will start to incorporate compression
schemes within their systems.

But then, how many people would even appreciate that feature? Just like
high end audio, it's a niche/small market that won't get much attention
from the marketers.

Well, yes, that's of course, true. Most people listen to "pop" music (rock,
rap, hip-hop, etc.) most of which, has no dynamic range and is loud all the
time. Those who get their fix of pop via radio, don't need compressors as the
radio stations provide more than enough in their bids to be the loudest
stations on the dial to capture the "dial spinner" audience. The only people
who have a use for compressors are those who listen to classical and jazz and
perhaps acoustic vocal music such as blues and folk and who listen via their
own sources, CD MP3, etc.

Bose car audio systems have sophisticated volume circuits since each
speaker of Bose car audio system has its own amplifier and EQ. They may
be the 1st to implement compression technology. They sure do know how to
market whatever they bring out

Bose is definitely a textbook case of marketing over substance coupled with
the cahones to charge outrageous prices for their goods and get away with it.


Though I am not much of a fan of Bose home audio, I can not sing the
praises enough for Bose car audio. Their compromise engineering and the
less than ideal car audio environment are a match made in heaven.

I can only comment on the Bose car systems that come in the Italian Maserati
or Alfa Romeos that I get to borrow from the factories when I'm in Italy.
I've listened to them, of course, and find that they work fine, but I've
never heard anything from them to write home about. Nor have I been any more
impressed with the Bose stereos that come standard in Ferraris. One would
think that cars this pricy would would come with stereos from the likes of at
least McIntosh, if not Mark Levinson. BTW, Ferrari want's over US$3,000 for
their Bose audio system when its no better (or different) than the Bose
system that comes standard in a Fiat Punto AFAICS. But I guess if you can
afford a Ferrari, who cares about a piddling three-grand for a mediocre car
stereo.

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:40:46 -0700, bob wrote
(in article ):

On Jul 6, 10:30*am, "C. Leeds" wrote:
nabob wrote:

CD, done right, is as good as it gets. But the high-enders won't
accept that, so instead of demanding "CD done right," they insist on
some other medium....

But it doesn't matter what high-enders demand. The CD market caters to
the mass market, not the high-end.

I'm not talking about the mass market; I'm talking about the
audiophile recording market. See my reference to Acoustic Sounds and
Music Direct. Those catalogs are full of SACDs and 180g vinyl, because
audiophiles have been spoon-fed the idea that it's the medium that
makes a good recording, and those are the media that Stereophile and
The Absolute Sound tell them sound best.

Now imagine an alternate world where Sphile and TAS had decided to put
honesty above profit (yeah, I know), and told audiophiles that new
gear wasn't going to solve the problems of the conventional CD. That
instead of putting $3000 into a new disk player, they should put $3000
into the best-mastered CDs they could find, from labels dedicated to
quality recordings. What would the Music Direct catalog look like
today?

bob

I dunno, but I'll tell you that the best deal in music today is to go to the
Music Direct catalogue and purchase the ENTIRE RCA Red Seal collection found
there. It will cost you about $600 or a bit more, and the discs are hybrid -
SACD/Red Book CD, but BMG/Sony have done a magnificent job re-mastering these
60 or so discs and whether you prefer to listen via the SACD layer or the CD
layer (they're compatible with any CD player), every one's a winner and among
the best recordings ever made during the "Golden Age" of stereo recording.

[Sonnova]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:37:47 -0700, bob wrote
(in article ):

On Jul 6, 10:25*am, Sonnova wrote:

I've often thought that all car radios should incorporate a variable
compressor that could be invoked by the listener for any source with a knob
on it which would be able to increase the amount of compression from none to
full. While I wouldn't want this on my home stereo, in a car, it's
practically de riguer. OTOH, I've never heard of any car stereo makes ever
including one.

The factory-installed unit on my 2007 Ford Fusion has this feature,
although I haven't tried it out yet.

bob

Interesting. It's about time. OTOH, most consumer compressors offered over
the years have the release time-constants wrong causing the compressor to
"pump" audibly - very annoying. This can be fixed by using a larger
capacitor, (or a higher value resistor) in the release circuit (of an analog
compressor), but I'm reasonably sure that today's compressors (like the one
in your Ford radio) are digital and DSP based, so I don't know what you could
do there. I'd be interested to hear how well it works. Let us know, will you?

[bob]

On Jul 7, 11:46*am, Codifus wrote:

Today's cars have automatic volume controls which raise/reduce the
volume according how much road noise is present.

Ah, yes, this sounds like what my car actually has--it gets louder
with increased speed (not road noise itself). As I said, I've never
tried it, and I can't imagine it making much difference. I don't want
the fffs louder, just the ppps.

bob

[C. Leeds]

bob wrote:
...Acoustic Sounds and
Music Direct. Those catalogs are full of SACDs and 180g vinyl, because
audiophiles have been spoon-fed the idea that it's the medium that
makes a good recording, and those are the media that Stereophile and
The Absolute Sound tell them sound best.

Music Direct presumably sells what its customers want. It makes sense
that they sell SACD and LP, because those formats are difficult to find
at many mass merchants. Its customers aren't "spoon-fed" - they simply
buy what they prefer. If you don't care for Music Direct's selection,
why not shop somewhere else? Or, do you expect the entire world to
conform to your sensibilities?

Now imagine an alternate world where Sphile and TAS had decided to put
honesty above profit (yeah, I know),

If you don't care for these magazines, don't read them. Or, do you
expect the entire world to conform to your sensibilities?

....What would the Music Direct catalog look like
today?

Who cares? There are many places to buy recordings.

[bob]

On Jul 7, 10:22*pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:37:47 -0700, bob wrote

The factory-installed unit on my 2007 Ford Fusion has this feature,
although I haven't tried it out yet.

bob

Interesting. It's about time. OTOH, most consumer compressors offered over
the years have the release time-constants wrong causing the compressor to
"pump" audibly - very annoying. This can be fixed by using a larger
capacitor, (or a higher value resistor) in the release circuit (of an analog
compressor), but I'm reasonably sure that today's compressors (like the one
in your Ford radio) are digital and DSP based, so I don't know what you could
do there. I'd be interested to hear how well it works. Let us know, will you?

Well, I finally decided to actually try out my car's CD player (I
mostly do radio in the car), and it has two interesting features:

1) A control that increases the volume as car speed increases, to
compensate for road noise and wind. This is adjustable on a 0-7 scale,
with 0 being "off." The manual recommends not going above 3, however.
I haven't experimented with this yet.

2) A "compression" feature that reduces the dynamic range, to allow
soft passages to be heard above the background noise. This is a simple
on-off toggle. I tried it out with a symphonic CD that was
unlistenable in my old car. (Did you know there's actually a second
movement to Beethoven's Fifth? You wouldn't have heard it in my
Civic!) And, indeed, it works pretty much as claimed--almost all of
the soft passages are audible, without blasting the fff passages
unreasonably. The crescendoes lose a fair bit of their punch, alas,
but you still get the general shape of the piece. A reasonable
compromise, if you're willing to accept compromise. (In a car, I am.)

bob

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:51:52 -0700, bob wrote
(in article ):

On Jul 7, 10:22*pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:37:47 -0700, bob wrote

The factory-installed unit on my 2007 Ford Fusion has this feature,
although I haven't tried it out yet.

bob

Interesting. It's about time. OTOH, most consumer compressors offered over
the years have the release time-constants wrong causing the compressor to
"pump" audibly - very annoying. This can be fixed by using a larger
capacitor, (or a higher value resistor) in the release circuit (of an analog
compressor), but I'm reasonably sure that today's compressors (like the one
in your Ford radio) are digital and DSP based, so I don't know what you
could
do there. I'd be interested to hear how well it works. Let us know, will
you?

Well, I finally decided to actually try out my car's CD player (I
mostly do radio in the car), and it has two interesting features:

1) A control that increases the volume as car speed increases, to
compensate for road noise and wind. This is adjustable on a 0-7 scale,
with 0 being "off." The manual recommends not going above 3, however.
I haven't experimented with this yet.

2) A "compression" feature that reduces the dynamic range, to allow
soft passages to be heard above the background noise. This is a simple
on-off toggle. I tried it out with a symphonic CD that was
unlistenable in my old car. (Did you know there's actually a second
movement to Beethoven's Fifth? You wouldn't have heard it in my
Civic!) And, indeed, it works pretty much as claimed--almost all of
the soft passages are audible, without blasting the fff passages
unreasonably. The crescendoes lose a fair bit of their punch, alas,
but you still get the general shape of the piece. A reasonable
compromise, if you're willing to accept compromise. (In a car, I am.)

bob


Me too. I do not expect a car stereo to be a home stereo, and indeed, even
the "best" of them (even the Mark Levinson system in a friend's Lexus is far
from home stereo country, and in fact, really seems no better than the
stereos in most of the better cars these days). However I will not stand for
compressors that audibly pump. I'd rather not hear the passage than listen to
the pumping.

[Steven Sullivan]

bob wrote:
On Jul 7, 10:22?pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:37:47 -0700, bob wrote

The factory-installed unit on my 2007 Ford Fusion has this feature,
although I haven't tried it out yet.

bob

Interesting. It's about time. OTOH, most consumer compressors offered over
the years have the release time-constants wrong causing the compressor to
"pump" audibly - very annoying. This can be fixed by using a larger
capacitor, (or a higher value resistor) in the release circuit (of an analog
compressor), but I'm reasonably sure that today's compressors (like the one
in your Ford radio) are digital and DSP based, so I don't know what you could
do there. I'd be interested to hear how well it works. Let us know, will you?

Well, I finally decided to actually try out my car's CD player (I
mostly do radio in the car), and it has two interesting features:

1) A control that increases the volume as car speed increases, to
compensate for road noise and wind. This is adjustable on a 0-7 scale,
with 0 being "off." The manual recommends not going above 3, however.
I haven't experimented with this yet.

2) A "compression" feature that reduces the dynamic range, to allow
soft passages to be heard above the background noise. This is a simple
on-off toggle. I tried it out with a symphonic CD that was
unlistenable in my old car. (Did you know there's actually a second
movement to Beethoven's Fifth? You wouldn't have heard it in my
Civic!) And, indeed, it works pretty much as claimed--almost all of
the soft passages are audible, without blasting the fff passages
unreasonably. The crescendoes lose a fair bit of their punch, alas,
but you still get the general shape of the piece. A reasonable
compromise, if you're willing to accept compromise. (In a car, I am.)

I've tried both of these, and the on/off compressor won...I found the
variable gadget too distracting.

--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)

[Codifus]

On Jul 17, 6:46*pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:51:52 -0700, bob wrote
(in article ):



On Jul 7, 10:22*pm, Sonnova wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:37:47 -0700, bob wrote

The factory-installed unit on my 2007 Ford Fusion has this feature,
although I haven't tried it out yet.

bob

Interesting. It's about time. OTOH, most consumer compressors offered over
the years have the release time-constants wrong causing the compressor to
"pump" audibly - very annoying. This can be fixed by using a larger
capacitor, (or a higher value resistor) in the release circuit (of an analog
compressor), but I'm reasonably sure that today's compressors (like the one
in your Ford radio) are digital and DSP based, so I don't know what you
could
do there. I'd be interested to hear how well it works. Let us know, will
you?

Well, I finally decided to actually try out my car's CD player (I
mostly do radio in the car), and it has two interesting features:

1) A control that increases the volume as car speed increases, to
compensate for road noise and wind. This is adjustable on a 0-7 scale,
with 0 being "off." The manual recommends not going above 3, however.
I haven't experimented with this yet.

2) A "compression" feature that reduces the dynamic range, to allow
soft passages to be heard above the background noise. This is a simple
on-off toggle. I tried it out with a symphonic CD that was
unlistenable in my old car. (Did you know there's actually a second
movement to Beethoven's Fifth? You wouldn't have heard it in my
Civic!) And, indeed, it works pretty much as claimed--almost all of
the soft passages are audible, without blasting the fff passages
unreasonably. The crescendoes lose a fair bit of their punch, alas,
but you still get the general shape of the piece. A reasonable
compromise, if you're willing to accept compromise. (In a car, I am.)

bob

Me too. I do not expect a car stereo to be a home stereo, and indeed, even
the "best" of them (even the Mark Levinson system in a friend's Lexus is far
from home stereo country, and in fact, really seems no better than the
stereos in most of the better cars these days). However I will not stand for
compressors that audibly pump. I'd rather not hear the passage than listen to
the pumping.

Sounds like the old DBX compression in cassette tapes. Massive dynamic
range with the annoying audio pumping.

CD