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#1
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Making STUDIO tracks sound like LIVE tracks...
Hello! A professor of mine suggested this group for asking a sound
mixing problem. Thanks in advance for any help or hints offered! I'm a student filmmaker and I'm editing (sound and picture) a student short film. The film at one point has a scene in which a rock band performs a song. We at first thought that we could use a song from the band's demo, add some reverb, add some audience noise and we'd achieve success. But no matter what effects I've tried, it always sounds like a studio mix. We can't reshoot or even record the band (they've all gone home for the holidays, how rock n' roll is that?), and we don't have access to the original pre-mixed tracks. All we have is this one studio song and I feel tons of pressure from everybody, even though everybody knows I signed on as "editor" and not "sound guru". Editors get blamed for everything in the end. That's just the way it is. The song, by the way, is pretty basic rock n' roll and the song sounds good production-wise (as in, you could imagine it being on the radio). The problem isn't fantastic studio wizardry that could never be replicated live. The problem is that the song doesn't have the air or life that one would expect from LIVE rock n' roll. The sync of the track and the band looks good, by the way, so if the track actually sounded live, the scene would totally work. A friend of mine had the (perhaps brilliant?) idea of blasting the song on a stereo and recording the song in an empty room. But before I start shooting in the dark, praying and hoping, I was hoping to get some input from you guys. If you read all of this, thanks. If you have a thought or two to help me, double thanks! |
#2
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Listen to Bennie & The Jets by Elton John.
Primitive and a bit campy but a cool "effect". searching for peace, love and quality footwear guido http://www.guidotoons.com http://www.theloniousmoog.com http://www.luckymanclark.com |
#3
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Your friend is right. Ideally, you should pipe the tune through an average PA
system in a room of hall comparable in size to the room you want to simulate, then put a couple of good mics back about 1/3 of the way. Just like the audience hears it. Mix it back with the original tracks if you can, with some crowd noise. Or make it a big deal. Rent a hall, do this setup, and invite a lot of friends to be the "crowd", mixing both the music ambience and the crowd noise at the same time. |
#4
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"Number Lime" wrote in message
ups.com A friend of mine had the (perhaps brilliant?) idea of blasting the song on a stereo and recording the song in an empty room. But before I start shooting in the dark, praying and hoping, I was hoping to get some input from you guys. He's not so much brilliant as perhaps knowledgeable in how people do things like this. Better than an empty room is a full room. Preferably a room with the desired acoustics. Achieving that is left to your creativity. I can only add that after you re-record your tracks, play with mixing a bit of the original and a bit of the re-recorded tracks to suit your taste. |
#5
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"Number Lime" wrote in news:1103554808.458971.38470
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: Hello! A professor of mine suggested this group for asking a sound mixing problem. Thanks in advance for any help or hints offered! I'm a student filmmaker and I'm editing (sound and picture) a student short film. The film at one point has a scene in which a rock band performs a song. We at first thought that we could use a song from the band's demo, add some reverb, add some audience noise and we'd achieve success. But no matter what effects I've tried, it always sounds like a studio mix. If most modern gigs are anything to go by, you won't have anywhere near enough Kick drum on the demo recording to make it sound authentic. Take a wet fish and slap it against a hard surface in time with the music, this should have the desired effect. |
#6
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He's not so much brilliant as perhaps knowledgeable in how people do things like this. Better than an empty room is a full room. Preferably a room with the desired acoustics. Achieving that is left to your creativity. I can only add that after you re-record your tracks, play with mixing a bit of the original and a bit of the re-recorded tracks to suit your taste. A local rock bar might allow running the track through the PA between acts, then you could get the room chatter too. Perhaps even direct the crowd to make noise. |
#7
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Number Lime" wrote in message ups.com A friend of mine had the (perhaps brilliant?) idea of blasting the song on a stereo and recording the song in an empty room. But before I start shooting in the dark, praying and hoping, I was hoping to get some input from you guys. He's not so much brilliant as perhaps knowledgeable in how people do things like this. Better than an empty room is a full room. Preferably a room with the desired acoustics. Achieving that is left to your creativity. Full of people talking, singing, farting, etc to get that real live ambience. You can also detune some notes to make them 'bum' and vary the timing of tracks to make it sound like a typically loose band performance ! geoff |
#8
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Making STUDIO tracks sound like LIVE tracks... Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Tue, Dec 21, 2004, 9:42am (EST+18) From: (Geoff=A0Wood) Better than an empty room is a full room. Preferably a room with the desired acoustics. Achieving that is left to your creativity. Full of people talking, singing, farting, etc to get that real live ambience. You can also detune some notes to make them 'bum' and vary the timing of tracks to make it sound like a typically loose band performance ! geoff the appropriate term for that is called "worldizing" Eric |
#9
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#10
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In article . com,
"Number Lime" wrote: A friend of mine had the (perhaps brilliant?) idea of blasting the song on a stereo and recording the song in an empty room. But before I start shooting in the dark, praying and hoping, I was hoping to get some input from you guys. that's actually a pretty good idea, in fact that was a trick that Mutt Lange used when he recorded AC/DC's _Highway To Hell_ - took the basic tracks and blasted them through a PA in a fairly live room and miked it, then mixed that back onto the basic tracks for ambience. I liked that other guy's idea better though - doing it in a club with bodies inside making noise would give you a more realistic-sounding recording. Worth a shot.... -- Dan Dreibelbis, Guitar Nerd - Better Living Through Home Recording Now On Soundclick for your listening pleasure! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/da...elbismusic.htm new song "Bongo Congo" |
#11
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Take a wet fish and slap it against a hard surface in time with the music,
this should have the desired effect. Shoot it for the video, too. BRBR Around here I think the Fish & Wildlife Dept will slap a fine on you for shooting at fish. You're supposed to do it the old fashioned way with a rod & reel. Scott Fraser |
#13
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"Number Lime" wrote in message ups.com... A friend of mine had the (perhaps brilliant?) idea of blasting the song on a stereo and recording the song in an empty room. Could work... what type of "live" do you want it to be? Concert hall? Smoky bar? Arena? You should be able to do this with a good convolution reverb & a bit of dynamics processing for better or worse, I would think. Neil Henderson |
#14
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#15
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Neil Henderson wrote: "Number Lime" wrote in message ups.com... A friend of mine had the (perhaps brilliant?) idea of blasting the song on a stereo and recording the song in an empty room. Could work... what type of "live" do you want it to be? Concert hall? Smoky bar? Arena? You should be able to do this with a good convolution reverb & a bit of dynamics processing for better or worse, I would think. Neil Henderson Small concert hall/large bar, more than half-filled with attentive, enthusiastic people. Any starting "recipes" for processing would be much appreciated--just as a starting point to get going. A question about re-recording the studio tracks over a PA in a large room: Should I mix down the stereo studio recording to mono and then record the room via a stereo mic set up? It seems like PA's in bars are mono. Am I wrong? Or am I over-thinking this process? Thanks to the responses so far. Especially the inspired slapping fish idea. Brilliant! |
#16
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Here's my setup, if you can do it.
I presume you have a multitrack of the music. Play the music with a rough narrow stereo mix through a PA to a room full of enthusiastic folks, not too loud in volume. If you have available tracks, place mics in various positions. (I'd be inclined to use a coinicident pair, matched, back about 1/3 to 1/2 of the distance to the back wall, aimed in the traditional X pattern. Record these mics onto open tracks. At mixdown, mix the music in stereo in a medium narrow soundfield (not full to the sides, but not mono either.) Pan you coincident or ambient mics hard left and right, and mix them in. Be careful pf phase cancellation or comb filtering. The primary sound of the music should be the mults, but you should hear ambience and crowd noise "around it". You could even try judicious "ducking". Put each ambient mic track through a compressor. Use a stereo mix of the music to trigger the compressor. Set the attack and release very fast. Then you can get louder ambient noise without overpowering the music. |
#17
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I think the suggestion to re-record in a similar room is the best.
Alternatively, if you want to simulate a club more than a stadium, try to use a slap delay instead of reverb. Start with about 60 mS. -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72 Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
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