I have four broadcast carts (mono), from the late 60s when I was
working at a local station here in NYC. Two are 5 min, the others 1
min. I have no idea what's on them -- the labels having long since
vanished -- but I suspect the longer ones may contain some special
material I wrote and produced at the time.

I'm in the process of trying to digitally archive as much of my work
as possible. I have a plan to try and get the audio off these carts and
I'd like some comments and suggestions. First though, it's
impractical for me to even think of using a cart machine. I know these
old machines show up for sale or auction every so often, but even if I
could afford one (I'm semi-retired, on a budget), it wouldn't make
sense to get one just for four tapes that would never be played again.
Besides, the carts themselves may be damaged a bit.

I have a reel-to-reel deck that someone gave me (2 trk, stereo) that I
will be using to archive various reels I also have (all sizes,
including 10.5 which I would spool off onto smaller reels).

I'm thinking that if I can pull the cart tape out of the carts onto a
reel in the proper direction, there should be no reason why the reel
deck's heads should not pick up the signal (assuming there's enough
of it left on the tape). The tricky part is figuring out where to cut
the loop. My thought is to pull enough out and hand pull it past the
heads until I hear the cue tone -- I want to avoid cutting the loop in
the middle of content.

It might also be possible, if I pull out enough of the loop and rig up
some "posts" and thread it correctly, to simply let the deck's
capstan move the loop assuming it can maintain the 7.5 ips speed.

Has anyone done anything like this before? TIA for any ideas.

Marshall

mjeassoc wrote ...
I have four broadcast carts (mono), from the late 60s when I was
working at a local station here in NYC. Two are 5 min, the others 1
min. I have no idea what's on them -- the labels having long since
vanished -- but I suspect the longer ones may contain some special
material I wrote and produced at the time.

I'm in the process of trying to digitally archive as much of my work
as possible. I have a plan to try and get the audio off these carts
and
I'd like some comments and suggestions. First though, it's
impractical for me to even think of using a cart machine. I know these
old machines show up for sale or auction every so often, but even if I
could afford one (I'm semi-retired, on a budget), it wouldn't make
sense to get one just for four tapes that would never be played again.
Besides, the carts themselves may be damaged a bit.

I have a reel-to-reel deck that someone gave me (2 trk, stereo) that I
will be using to archive various reels I also have (all sizes,
including 10.5 which I would spool off onto smaller reels).

I'm thinking that if I can pull the cart tape out of the carts onto a
reel in the proper direction, there should be no reason why the reel
deck's heads should not pick up the signal (assuming there's enough
of it left on the tape). The tricky part is figuring out where to cut
the loop. My thought is to pull enough out and hand pull it past the
heads until I hear the cue tone -- I want to avoid cutting the loop in
the middle of content.

Back when you were using the carts, did you use
a splice-finder? The kind that would stop the tape
right at (or after) the splice so you didn't have to
record/play through the splice?

You didn't describe what you were going to archive
these tapes *TO*. If to a computer, you could just
cut the loop anywhere and splice leader onto each
end, then fix whatever discontinuity pretty easily on
the computer.

It might also be possible, if I pull out enough of the
loop and rig up some "posts" and thread it correctly,
to simply let the deck's capstan move the loop assuming
it can maintain the 7.5 ips speed.

The carts may not have enough slack to allow you to
do this without breaking or jamming the tape?

Also assuming that the heads of your reel-to-reel
machine have some sort of match with what the
cart was recorded with. Are the carts stereo or
mono?

Has anyone done anything like this before? TIA for
any ideas.

I've done the opposite, recorded a multi-channel sound
track on back-lubricated tape and then wound it into a
cart shell for a slide show that went on the road to several
continents.

Richard Crowley wrote:
Back when you were using the carts, did you use
a splice-finder? The kind that would stop the tape
right at (or after) the splice so you didn't have to
record/play through the splice?

Wouldn't know. I was not a tech (then). Unionized station. I was
strictly editorial. When I used to do shifts as a sound bite editor, I
used to wag my finger. Other fingers (IBEW member) used to wield the
razor blade.

You didn't describe what you were going to archive
these tapes *TO*. If to a computer, you could just
cut the loop anywhere and splice leader onto each
end, then fix whatever discontinuity pretty easily on
the computer.

I thought the target format was obvious from my post. And I could do
that, but might be risky. Even though I have a splicing block in fairly
good condition, tape might be brittle and if I loose even as little as
a half inch, the glitch might not be fixable in software.


Also assuming that the heads of your reel-to-reel
machine have some sort of match with what the
cart was recorded with. Are the carts stereo or
mono?

mono (said so in my first sentence) so the signal should cover all the
head area.


Thanks....

wrote:

I have a reel-to-reel deck that someone gave me (2 trk, stereo) that I
will be using to archive various reels I also have (all sizes,
including 10.5 which I would spool off onto smaller reels).

I'm thinking that if I can pull the cart tape out of the carts onto a
reel in the proper direction, there should be no reason why the reel
deck's heads should not pick up the signal (assuming there's enough
of it left on the tape). The tricky part is figuring out where to cut
the loop. My thought is to pull enough out and hand pull it past the
heads until I hear the cue tone -- I want to avoid cutting the loop in
the middle of content.

You might call around and see if a station in your area
still uses the cart format, and is willing to transfer them
for you, either to digital or a 1/4" format you can use.

Cut the loop at the original splice, and splice on a leader.
In the absence of a splice finder any half decent engineer
or spot producer would have cued them up just past the
splice after assembling or bulking them.

It might also be possible, if I pull out enough of the loop and rig up
some "posts" and thread it correctly, to simply let the deck's
capstan move the loop assuming it can maintain the 7.5 ips speed.

You won't have enough slack to let the cart play without
binding if you pull more than just a few inches out.

Has anyone done anything like this before? TIA for any ideas.

Sure, I've got a few 5" reels with liberated cart content.
The loop lubricant makes a mess so be prepared for that.

rd

In article .com,
says...


It might also be possible, if I pull out enough of the loop and rig up
some "posts" and thread it correctly, to simply let the deck's
capstan move the loop assuming it can maintain the 7.5 ips speed.

You won't have enough slack to let the cart play without
binding if you pull more than just a few inches out.


yeah it won't work. And unlike 8-track cartridges, the fidelipac broadcast
cart has the roller in the deck rather than the cartridge. The tape should
play fine on a reel once pulled out and rewound onto a reel, though. But the
cart head records a third track (or second, if it's a mono deck) of cueing
tones, so those will probably wind up mixed in with your music when you play it
back on a reel to reel. Also, the bias on a reel to reel deck will not be
optimum as it would be if played back on a cart deck. I happen to have an ITC
delta IV stereo cart playback deck with record head and recording unit, not to
mention a cart eraser. I was planning on ebaying them but they're so damn
heavy I haven't got around to it yet. I've never used them and therefore I've
never aligned them, but they were regularly serviced while they were being used
in a radio station. I also have no carts, but if you send me the carts I can
make a good 24bit 44.1khz transfer of them for you, in .wav file to DVD, for
free, if you let me keep the carts afterwards.

In article V94og.81803$I61.60867@clgrps13, says...

In article .com,
says...


It might also be possible, if I pull out enough of the loop and rig up
some "posts" and thread it correctly, to simply let the deck's
capstan move the loop assuming it can maintain the 7.5 ips speed.

You won't have enough slack to let the cart play without
binding if you pull more than just a few inches out.


yeah it won't work. And unlike 8-track cartridges, the fidelipac broadcast
cart has the roller in the deck rather than the cartridge. The tape should
play fine on a reel once pulled out and rewound onto a reel, though. But the
cart head records a third track (or second, if it's a mono deck) of cueing
tones, so those will probably wind up mixed in with your music when you play
it
back on a reel to reel. Also, the bias on a reel to reel deck will not be
optimum as it would be if played back on a cart deck. I happen to have an ITC
delta IV stereo cart playback deck with record head and recording unit, not to
mention a cart eraser. I was planning on ebaying them but they're so damn
heavy I haven't got around to it yet. I've never used them and therefore I've
never aligned them, but they were regularly serviced while they were being
used
in a radio station. I also have no carts, but if you send me the carts I can
make a good 24bit 44.1khz transfer of them for you, in .wav file to DVD, for
free, if you let me keep the carts afterwards.


actually you could even grab the results via ftp if you have broadband..

"Chevdo" wrote in message
news:V94og.81803$I61.60867@clgrps13

Also, the bias on a reel to reel deck
will not be optimum as it would be if played back on a
cart deck.

Playback deck bias affecting playback of a tape?

My nomination for the RAP "Amazing new science" post of the day. ;-)

wrote:

I'm in the process of trying to digitally archive as much of my work
as possible. I have a plan to try and get the audio off these carts and
I'd like some comments and suggestions. First though, it's
impractical for me to even think of using a cart machine. I know these
old machines show up for sale or auction every so often, but even if I
could afford one (I'm semi-retired, on a budget), it wouldn't make
sense to get one just for four tapes that would never be played again.
Besides, the carts themselves may be damaged a bit.

You want to use a cart machine. The tape runs at 7.5 ips, and there are
two formats. One format is two-track mono, but the stereo tapes use
three-track heads. Unless your deck has three-track heads, use the cart
machine.

The cue tone SHOULD be on the splice, if the guy recording them was
careful. Or at least near it.

I have a pair of cart machines rigged up with external azimuth control for
just this exact job.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

If all else fails, there's an outfit in the DC area called The Cutting
Corp. who can transfer anything, but they're pricey.

mjeassoc wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
Back when you were using the carts, did you use
a splice-finder? The kind that would stop the tape
right at (or after) the splice so you didn't have to
record/play through the splice?

Wouldn't know. I was not a tech (then). Unionized station. I was
strictly editorial. When I used to do shifts as a sound bite editor, I
used to wag my finger. Other fingers (IBEW member) used to wield the
razor blade.

You didn't describe what you were going to archive
these tapes *TO*. If to a computer, you could just
cut the loop anywhere and splice leader onto each
end, then fix whatever discontinuity pretty easily on
the computer.

I thought the target format was obvious from my post.

"digitally archive" has a much broader (and indistinct) definition
here than what you apparently have in your mind. It never hurts
to be explicit.

And I could do
that, but might be risky. Even though I have a splicing block in fairly
good condition, tape might be brittle and if I loose even as little as
a half inch, the glitch might not be fixable in software.

If the tape is now brittle, you shouldn't attempt it at all. Send it
to a professional or forget it.

Also assuming that the heads of your reel-to-reel
machine have some sort of match with what the
cart was recorded with. Are the carts stereo or
mono?

mono (said so in my first sentence) so the signal should cover all the
head area.

Not necessarily. Mono does not mean full-track, especially not
on carts.

On 27 Jun 2006 10:48:06 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I have a pair of cart machines rigged up with external azimuth control for
just this exact job.
--scott

Send them to Scott.

Julian wrote:

Send them to Scott.

or mr hess. he has specialized in tape and it's related issues. his
postings to the association of recorded sound collections has helped
many and he does tape forensics for law enforcement.

do not let an amatuer try this.

they may just **** the whole thing up by their ineptness.
a bad machine or operator error could eat and/or erase your material.

In article ,
says...

"Chevdo" wrote in message
news:V94og.81803$I61.60867@clgrps13

Also, the bias on a reel to reel deck
will not be optimum as it would be if played back on a
cart deck.

Playback deck bias affecting playback of a tape?

My nomination for the RAP "Amazing new science" post of the day. ;-)



Why don't you take that up with Dorsey, he's got " a pair of cart machines
rigged up with external azimuth control for just this exact job."

Twit.

On 27 Jun 2006 10:48:06 -0400, in rec.audio.pro
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

wrote:

I'm in the process of trying to digitally archive as much of my work
as possible. I have a plan to try and get the audio off these carts and
I'd like some comments and suggestions. First though, it's
impractical for me to even think of using a cart machine. I know these
old machines show up for sale or auction every so often, but even if I
could afford one (I'm semi-retired, on a budget), it wouldn't make
sense to get one just for four tapes that would never be played again.
Besides, the carts themselves may be damaged a bit.

You want to use a cart machine. The tape runs at 7.5 ips, and there are
two formats. One format is two-track mono, but the stereo tapes use
three-track heads. Unless your deck has three-track heads, use the cart
machine.

The cue tone SHOULD be on the splice, if the guy recording them was
careful. Or at least near it.

I have a pair of cart machines rigged up with external azimuth control for
just this exact job.
--scott

I always liked the ITC99, not exactlty a Studer, but a solid bit of
kit. Hated the 3D monsters

I wonder what ITC are doing now, (too lazy to groogle)


martin

In article ,
X says...


I wonder what ITC are doing now, (too lazy to groogle)


still making digital versions of cart decks, probably. I always hated them,
people at the radio station actually thought that carts were high 'broadcast'
quality, not realizing they were built to be workhorses, and fidelity was never
an issue. I'd work painstakingly to make my cassette tapes sound good and
then they'd just transfer it over to carts....

Chevdo wrote:

Why don't you take that up with Dorsey, he's got " a pair of cart
machines rigged up with external azimuth control for just this
exact job."


Yeah, that makes sense. Aligning the gap of the playback head to
whatever angle was used on the recorder is desirable. Making it
adjustable lets you get the most from even carts that were recorded on
misaligned machines.

Bias, on the other hand, is a signal applied during recording. It has
nothing to do with playback. Maybe you meant something else?

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
Chevdo wrote:

Why don't you take that up with Dorsey, he's got " a pair of cart
machines rigged up with external azimuth control for just this
exact job."

Yeah, that makes sense. Aligning the gap of the playback head to
whatever angle was used on the recorder is desirable. Making it
adjustable lets you get the most from even carts that were recorded on
misaligned machines.

And all cart machines are misaligned. With a standard cart machine, you
just wiggle the cartridge with your hand when the top end goes out...
the external azimuth control allows you to do that in a slightly more
controllable fashion. Carts make even cassettes seem accurate.

Bias, on the other hand, is a signal applied during recording. It has
nothing to do with playback. Maybe you meant something else?

Sheesh, and I thought it had something to do with tire plies.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."