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Jeff Henig Jeff Henig is offline
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William Sommerwerck wrote:
Multiple brain studies have shown how much of the brain "lights up"
when musically stimulated.


You can get the same effect by sticking miniature Christmas-tree lights up
your nose.


Why does this make me think of Steve Martin singing "It's Just
Impossible" and sticking a piano up his nose?

---Jeff
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William Sommerwerck wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:


Of course, recordings have an important place. I was listening to the
Mahler 3rd and the Kindertotenlieder this morning. Without recordings,
it's unlikely I would have ever this music.


Get ourself a piano, and turn off the stereo. g


If I can get my mortgage company to reduce the interest to 3% or lower, I'll
be able to retire without having to worry about paying my bills.
(Coincidentally, I'll be speaking to them today.) In such a case, I will
doubtless find time for music lessons.

When I was much younger, my mother wanted to get a piano (she could sort-of
play), but it was under the condition that I'd take lessons and stick with
them. As they'd never tried to encourage any interest in good music, I said
no. In retrospect, I wish I'd said yes, then abandoned the lessons, leaving
them stuck with the piano. I hurt my parents, but not anywhere nearly as
much as I could have or should have.


I sympathize with you, William.

Since I already brought up my background in an OT thread, I don't want
to threadjack this one. But suffice it to say, I feel your pain, my friend.

---Jeff
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ChrisCoaster writes:

On Feb 13, 8:11=A0am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
"ChrisCoaster" wrote in message

...
On Feb 13, 6:25 am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:



Have you seen photographs of Frank Sinatra's recording sessions? He
performed "live", in front of the orchestra, in what I assume was a

studio
designed specifically for pleasing-sounding recordings, and without

(IIRC)
a plethora of mics.
Your last paragraph reminds me of something I've been dying to do for
some years now: =A0Experiment with recording techniques that involve
only as many microphones as humans have ears. Seriously! Think
about how we hear andt it'll make sense.


You must be very new to recording. Simply-miked stereo recordings have be=

en
around for nearly 60 years.

When I made live recordings, I almost always used only two mics. I did,
however, make Ambisonic recordings using three mics, and quad recordings
using four.

The "correct" number of mics has no necessary relationship to the number =

of
ears we have. The issue is whether the recording contains the necessary
directional cues, and whether they can be correctly presented during
playback.

______


So then perhaps the industry should put more effort into those
techniques instead of quickly resorting to simple 'pan-pot' mono with
a dozen or more mics and racks of fx. As I recall music is supposed
to come from a stage - not a small box with blinking lights &
knobs.



If it could only be that simple. But often it's not. Much depends on the players,
the space, and the music.

In the case of, say, a large symphonic/choral ensemble, you're attempting to
translate all that plus the big recording space into a small playback space at home
-- and not lose something important in the process. (Also, you're trying to make up
for the lost visual element plus the "at the moment" excitement of seeing a large
ensemble live. And, underlying all of that are the substantial short-comings of even
the best microphones and speakers.)

Spots **are tools** that can help you do that translation, making up some
ground for the lost visuals and transducer failings.

But it is a matter of judgement -- you have to know what the music should sound
like and what feelings it should evoke (thus my frequent harping that engineers
need to go to unamplified live music events as often as they can).

Mis-use spots and it's awful; use them properly and no one will identify that you've
used spots. Rather, you've maintained a delightful illusion that a lone stereo pair
rarely can (not saying it can't; but it is rare).

YMMV

Frank
Mobile Audio
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ChrisCoaster wrote:

So then perhaps the industry should put more effort into those
techniques instead of quickly resorting to simple 'pan-pot' mono with
a dozen or more mics and racks of fx. As I recall music is supposed
to come from a stage - not a small box with blinking lights &
knobs.


On raw-tracks.com you will find some practice mixes I made with tracks I
purchased there. They are characterized by using real stereo engineering in
the mix process even though I do not state that in the on site notes.

To learn real stereo: get a pair of mics, an R44, a pair of mic cables and a
12 feet manfrotto stand and locate a chamber music society.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen






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On Feb 13, 7:29*am, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Feb 13, 8:11*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"ChrisCoaster" wrote in message


...
On Feb 13, 6:25 am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:


Have you seen photographs of Frank Sinatra's recording sessions? He
performed "live", in front of the orchestra, in what I assume was a

studio
designed specifically for pleasing-sounding recordings, and without

(IIRC)
a plethora of mics.
Your last paragraph reminds me of something I've been dying to do for
some years now: *Experiment with recording techniques that involve
only as many microphones as humans have ears. Seriously! Think
about how we hear andt it'll make sense.


You must be very new to recording. Simply-miked stereo recordings have been
around for nearly 60 years.


When I made live recordings, I almost always used only two mics. I did,
however, make Ambisonic recordings using three mics, and quad recordings
using four.


The "correct" number of mics has no necessary relationship to the number of
ears we have. The issue is whether the recording contains the necessary
directional cues, and whether they can be correctly presented during
playback.


______

So then perhaps the industry should put more effort into those
techniques instead of quickly resorting to simple 'pan-pot' mono with
a dozen or more mics and racks of fx. *As I recall music is supposed
to come from a stage - not a small box with blinking lights &
knobs.


Hee's the problem with doing that in classical music: you're paying
75-100 musicians scale for being there. Under those circumstances time
is money, lots of money, and you don't have the luxury of doing the
experimentation with mic positions that good simply-miked stereo
requires. You have to get something, nail it down, fast, and get those
musicians out of there while you still have some cash left. Multiple
spot mics are the quick'n'dirty way to get something usable fast.

In pop recording, current musical styles mostly demand multi-tracking,
overdubs, etc.. I teach a course which assigns a project using multi-
miking direct-to-two-track. I add, parenthetically, that if they want
to try a hip-hop recording using live musicians and do it direct-to-
two-track they will have my admiration, and a probable A. Only a few
have taken me up on it; hip-hop as a style is based on multi-track
recording.

Peace,
Paul


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"PStamler" wrote in message
...
On Feb 13, 7:29 am, ChrisCoaster wrote:

I teach a course which assigns a project using multi-
miking direct-to-two-track. I add, parenthetically, that if they want
to try a hip-hop recording using live musicians and do it direct-to-
two-track they will have my admiration, and a probable A. Only a few
have taken me up on it; hip-hop as a style is based on multi-track
recording.



Fascinating course to say the least.
I'd love to hear some of the finished products.

Poly


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On Feb 14, 10:27*am, "polymod" wrote:
"PStamler" wrote in message

...
On Feb 13, 7:29 am, ChrisCoaster wrote:

I teach a course which assigns a project using multi-
miking direct-to-two-track. I add, parenthetically, that if they want
to try a hip-hop recording using live musicians and do it direct-to-
two-track they will have my admiration, and a probable A. Only a few
have taken me up on it; hip-hop as a style is based on multi-track
recording.


Fascinating course to say the least.
I'd love to hear some of the finished products.


Not released, alas. There have been some really nice recordings in the
six years I've taught the class, including one dynamite rendition of
"Take the A Train" that matches any I've heard on record. That student
is Going Places.

Peace,
Paul
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Jeff Henig wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Multiple brain studies have shown how much of the brain "lights up"
when musically stimulated.
You can get the same effect by sticking miniature Christmas-tree lights up

your nose.

Why does this make me think of Steve Martin singing "It's Just
Impossible" and sticking a piano up his nose?

---Jeff


Martin Mull, perchance?
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ChrisCoaster wrote:

So then perhaps the industry should put more effort into those
techniques instead of quickly resorting to simple 'pan-pot' mono with
a dozen or more mics and racks of fx. As I recall music is supposed
to come from a stage - not a small box with blinking lights &
knobs.



Works fine for some forms of music, totally can't for others.


geoff


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Scott Dorsey wrote:
ChrisCoaster wrote:
The bean counters at the record cos don't care Max. So there's "5dB
dynamic range at best"? Squash it to 1dB and pin it to digital VU
-.5 dB and re-sell it to the suckers!!!


It's not the bean counters anymore. It is now pretty normal for
musicians to come into the mastering room and demand everything to be
louder.



Exactly. If they are 'restrained', they want it to be as loud as X. If
pushy, they want it louder than X.


geoff




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PStamler wrote:

Hee's the problem with doing that in classical music: you're paying
75-100 musicians scale for being there. Under those circumstances time
is money, lots of money, and you don't have the luxury of doing the
experimentation with mic positions that good simply-miked stereo
requires.


I do not understand the point made here, the mic adjustment time for a main
pair is between 0 and 10 minutes, only rarely more. You'll get tired and
confused if you don't get it done in that time.

You have to get something, nail it down, fast, and get those
musicians out of there while you still have some cash left. Multiple
spot mics are the quick'n'dirty way to get something usable fast.


Strictly no, spot mics are generally about being able to change ones mind,
but some of the time necessitated by other setup logistics such as
impractical physical placement of soloists. A simple example: they are
usually needed for an oratorio type reoording with soloists near the
conductor, but you can forego them if you instead place the vox soloists
centered in front of the choir. If the event is a ooncert then you can
expect little or no say in where to put them, you _should_ have some in case
of a recording. Some of the time the soloist wants to be next to the
conductor, and then the spot mic gets essential.

Choir pair or not is also a geographic issue, including whether there is
real estate to put it on.

In pop recording, current musical styles mostly demand multi-tracking,
overdubs, etc.. I teach a course which assigns a project using multi-
miking direct-to-two-track. I add, parenthetically, that if they want
to try a hip-hop recording using live musicians and do it direct-to-
two-track they will have my admiration, and a probable A. Only a few
have taken me up on it; hip-hop as a style is based on multi-track
recording.


A very different ball game.

Peace,
Paul



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"Peter Larsen" writes:

PStamler wrote:


Hee's the problem with doing that in classical music: you're paying
75-100 musicians scale for being there. Under those circumstances time
is money, lots of money, and you don't have the luxury of doing the
experimentation with mic positions that good simply-miked stereo
requires.


I do not understand the point made here, the mic adjustment time for a main
pair is between 0 and 10 minutes, only rarely more. You'll get tired and
confused if you don't get it done in that time.


Typically closer to 0 minutes. (Plus, I really don't want very much fussing around
from my end to distract the group. Do too much of that and they wonder if you know
what the hell you're doing. This might make them "hold back," second guess what
they're doing, et al. I NEVER EVER want to distract their flow. They are the stars,
not me.)

If you do have 10 minutes, often it's the warm-up, and it's likely you're not
getting a "real" performance from them anyway. This can throw off what you think
you're hearing. And, in the field, you'll likely not have optimal monitoring.

More than that, though, in the "herding cats" mind-set that can be taking place
*you* will not be in the correct head-space to make optimal decisions
on-the-spot (no pun).

I like to be at least 2-3 weeks past the tracking session before making any
dialed-in decisions. The many different worries that go through one's mind the day
of tracking are no longer distracting you/fooling you; you can come at it with a
clean sonic palette.

That said, experience will be on your side (both in general and specifically with
the group and room). Many hours of pre-production work is on your side as well,
including getting to at least one rehearsal, perhaps two. Rehearsals for session
work can be slightly less helpful than those for live performances, but they're
still well worth your time.

To this day, with all the gigs I've done (many with the same personnel or the same
group after many similar sessions/events), there hasn't been one time when a
rehearsal has failed to alert me to something that the conductor/players forgot to
tell me, or didn't think was worth mentioning.

On session day I'll be on site several hours early to get EVERYTHING set and tested
based on a plan I drew up, thought about, and ran by the conductor many days
earlier.

Then, even before the group arrives, I'll have preliminary levels set based on
my knowledge of my kit, the room, and what I heard them do dynamically in one of
those rehearsals.

You have to get something, nail it down, fast, and get those
musicians out of there while you still have some cash left. Multiple
spot mics are the quick'n'dirty way to get something usable fast.


Strictly no, spot mics are generally about being able to change ones mind,
but some of the time necessitated by other setup logistics such as
impractical physical placement of soloists. A simple example: they are
usually needed for an oratorio type reoording with soloists near the
conductor, but you can forego them if you instead place the vox soloists
centered in front of the choir. If the event is a ooncert then you can
expect little or no say in where to put them, you _should_ have some in case
of a recording. Some of the time the soloist wants to be next to the
conductor, and then the spot mic gets essential.


Agreed.

Think of it like this. You're directing an epic movie with the climatic scene that
needs to be shot -- the stars will all on set, huge numbers of extras, one-time live
effects, animals etc.

One take is all you get. You're sure as hell not going to plunk down just one
camera. Capture it from many angles, then use good judgement in post as to how to
cut it all together (an homage to the scene, rather than some editor's ability to
make several annoyingly dizzy cuts per second -- but I digress).


Choir pair or not is also a geographic issue, including whether there is
real estate to put it on.


And a pair might not be practical if space is tight (you can't get an appropriate
acoustic mix if you're right on top of them). Times like this I'll use 3-4 choir
microphones or, as is the case with some of my groups, two pairs on the main poll: a
50 cm A/B pair somewhat low for the orchestra, with an ORTF using hypercardioides
set up higher to "reach across" the orchestra and give me a fuller choir sound.

Frank
Mobile Audio
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Frank Stearns wrote:

[...]
To this day, with all the gigs I've done (...), there hasn't been one time
when a rehearsal has failed to alert me to something that the
conductor/players forgot to tell me, or didn't think was worth
mentioning.


Have you got some stories you can tell us?


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(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
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lid (Adrian Tuddenham) writes:

Frank Stearns wrote:


[...]
To this day, with all the gigs I've done (...), there hasn't been one time
when a rehearsal has failed to alert me to something that the
conductor/players forgot to tell me, or didn't think was worth
mentioning.


Have you got some stories you can tell us?


A few... w

1. Prelim: we have "some brass" for this concert...

Rehearsal reality: For the Schutz we move out the wind section and put trombones
(pretending to be sackbuts) in the middle. For the Gabrieli we'll have two brass
chiors way out in the far left and right wings. Then for the Bach, 3 trumpets over
by the tymps.

(The twin pairs saved the day, and gave the mix flexibility to cover it. Close
spotting really wasn't needed and that's good, because physically it would have
been close to impossible.)


2. Prelim: It's the usual chorus plus small orchestra, and in one piece we have a
few soloists...

Rehearsal reality: The first number was a singing processional into the hall, then
turned into a ring around the house as they finished the piece. At the applause they
moved up to the choral risers. In another number, four soloists moved off stage to
four points center, house rear, mid-house left and mid-house right. Four spots
required. The "ring of spots" also helped with just a bit of presence on the
"surround singers."

A single stereo pair (even omnis) would have been a disaster in that room on those
tunes. Having not gone to the rehearsal would have been an even bigger disaster.


3. Prelim: it's really a rather simple organ recital

Rehearsal reality: it's a tracker in a loft at the back of the church, and they
didn't allow cables across any place where people could walk, not even with covers
or tape. So the A/B pair went to the prayer rail at the front of the church with
cabling run on the outside wall; about 1/3 of the way back from the organ Gefell
M940s got strapped 12 feet up on opposing pillars left and right, angled in toward
the organ, and the cables flew like telephone wire pillar to pillar back to the
organ loft, then dropped down to my location under the spiral stairs that led to the
loft. Whole thing worked better than it should have.


4. Prelim/rehearsal: it's just four clarinets in the wind section (36 piece wind and
brass ensemble)

Session reality: hope you don't mind; we added a fifth clarinet.

Grr. For the music and the sound needed, it was not optimal to spot that section
with just one mic. Four was a stretch as it was. But, it worked well enough. I did
re-arrange the clarinet section to form a very sharp arc (nearly a semi-circle)
around the spot (Gefell M300).



5. Prelim/rehearsal: it's mostly tablas and flute, but we *might* have a tambura.

Peformance Reality: the tambura player showed up 10 minutes before the concert and
they squeezed him onto the rear of a small stage. While the tonality could be fixed
with EQ and delay (and sounded great), the tambura bleed into the flute was epic,
enough to disallow the producer the editing abilities he wanted.

Flute and tabla isolation was excellent, though (this guy keeps hiring me because
normally I can get darn near studio isolation on stage -- if I know what the hell is
going on and work with the players for best positioning). But not only was the
tambura loud, it was forced into the worst possible location on stage. Sigh.

If the tambura player had shown up for the sound check, we could have restaged and
gotten much better isolation.

As it was, that recording was not usable for what the producer wanted but he
recognized the problem and didn't blame me. We're doing the show again in a few
weeks, but with a chance to check everything!


And so it goes, there's always something.

Frank
Mobile Audio
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"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
acquisition...
lid (Adrian Tuddenham) writes:

Frank Stearns wrote:


[...]
To this day, with all the gigs I've done (...), there hasn't been one
time
when a rehearsal has failed to alert me to something that the
conductor/players forgot to tell me, or didn't think was worth
mentioning.


Have you got some stories you can tell us?


A few... w

1. Prelim: we have "some brass" for this concert...

Rehearsal reality: For the Schutz we move out the wind section and put
trombones
(pretending to be sackbuts) in the middle. For the Gabrieli we'll have two
brass
chiors way out in the far left and right wings. Then for the Bach, 3
trumpets over
by the tymps.

(The twin pairs saved the day, and gave the mix flexibility to cover it.
Close
spotting really wasn't needed and that's good, because physically it would
have
been close to impossible.)


2. Prelim: It's the usual chorus plus small orchestra, and in one piece we
have a
few soloists...

Rehearsal reality: The first number was a singing processional into the
hall, then
turned into a ring around the house as they finished the piece. At the
applause they
moved up to the choral risers. In another number, four soloists moved off
stage to
four points center, house rear, mid-house left and mid-house right. Four
spots
required. The "ring of spots" also helped with just a bit of presence on
the
"surround singers."

A single stereo pair (even omnis) would have been a disaster in that room
on those
tunes. Having not gone to the rehearsal would have been an even bigger
disaster.


3. Prelim: it's really a rather simple organ recital

Rehearsal reality: it's a tracker in a loft at the back of the church, and
they
didn't allow cables across any place where people could walk, not even
with covers
or tape. So the A/B pair went to the prayer rail at the front of the
church with
cabling run on the outside wall; about 1/3 of the way back from the organ
Gefell
M940s got strapped 12 feet up on opposing pillars left and right, angled
in toward
the organ, and the cables flew like telephone wire pillar to pillar back
to the
organ loft, then dropped down to my location under the spiral stairs that
led to the
loft. Whole thing worked better than it should have.


4. Prelim/rehearsal: it's just four clarinets in the wind section (36
piece wind and
brass ensemble)

Session reality: hope you don't mind; we added a fifth clarinet.

Grr. For the music and the sound needed, it was not optimal to spot that
section
with just one mic. Four was a stretch as it was. But, it worked well
enough. I did
re-arrange the clarinet section to form a very sharp arc (nearly a
semi-circle)
around the spot (Gefell M300).



5. Prelim/rehearsal: it's mostly tablas and flute, but we *might* have a
tambura.

Peformance Reality: the tambura player showed up 10 minutes before the
concert and
they squeezed him onto the rear of a small stage. While the tonality could
be fixed
with EQ and delay (and sounded great), the tambura bleed into the flute
was epic,
enough to disallow the producer the editing abilities he wanted.

Flute and tabla isolation was excellent, though (this guy keeps hiring me
because
normally I can get darn near studio isolation on stage -- if I know what
the hell is
going on and work with the players for best positioning). But not only was
the
tambura loud, it was forced into the worst possible location on stage.
Sigh.

If the tambura player had shown up for the sound check, we could have
restaged and
gotten much better isolation.

As it was, that recording was not usable for what the producer wanted but
he
recognized the problem and didn't blame me. We're doing the show again in
a few
weeks, but with a chance to check everything!


And so it goes, there's always something.


You should publish this stuff.....Priceless!

Poly




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On Sat 2012-Feb-18 17:29, hank alrich
big snip
You should publish this stuff.....Priceless!

Guffaw. Thanks! Maybe I'll do that one day.


Frank, what he said! People from the trenches don't put out enough
info about the mud down in the ditch, and your experience is well
worth sharing widely.


iNdeed, would agree with Hank. I also find that, if i"m
going to be doing the producer's gig, or recording the folks live, attending rehearsals, even with the surprises helps me have an idea what to expect, and adapt to those last minute
gotchas. Even when I was doing the studio I'd attend a
rehearsal if i had the chance. When you mentioend that
earlier in this thread Frank I was ready to chime in then
and state how important it is to me and the way I work.



Regards,
Richard
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Frank Stearns wrote:

Have you got some stories you can tell us?


A few... w


Same concert at two locations on consecutive days. Went to the first
concert. Made plan. Arrived at the next days concert, in another church.
Ensemble decided to experiment with a new positioning scheme.

Frank
Mobile Audio


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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"Richard Webb" wrote in
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On Sat 2012-Feb-18 17:29, hank alrich
big snip
You should publish this stuff.....Priceless!
Guffaw. Thanks! Maybe I'll do that one day.


Frank, what he said! People from the trenches don't put out enough
info about the mud down in the ditch, and your experience is well
worth sharing widely.


iNdeed, would agree with Hank. I also find that, if i"m
going to be doing the producer's gig, or recording the folks live,
attending rehearsals, even with the surprises helps me have an idea what
to expect, and adapt to those last minute
gotchas. Even when I was doing the studio I'd attend a
rehearsal if i had the chance. When you mentioend that
earlier in this thread Frank I was ready to chime in then
and state how important it is to me and the way I work.



Regards,
Richard


When I was a studio engineer, I tried to go see every band I was about to
record live; I'm talking R&R, Blues, Jazz here. If you haven't seen a
performer or group when they are really connected to their audience, then
you can't know if what your getting in the studio is the best they can do.
I know that's normally a producer's job, but with groups new to recording
the engineer usually had to also play the producer's role.

Steve King


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Steve King wrote:

What they said. "What You Really Need to Know about Location Recording"


65VAC between the grounds of two different outlets at the 9:30 Club.
--scott

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Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
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"Steve King" writes:

"Richard Webb" wrote in
message ...
On Sat 2012-Feb-18 17:29, hank alrich
big snip
You should publish this stuff.....Priceless!
Guffaw. Thanks! Maybe I'll do that one day.


Frank, what he said! People from the trenches don't put out enough
info about the mud down in the ditch, and your experience is well
worth sharing widely.


iNdeed, would agree with Hank. I also find that, if i"m
going to be doing the producer's gig, or recording the folks live,
attending rehearsals, even with the surprises helps me have an idea what
to expect, and adapt to those last minute
gotchas. Even when I was doing the studio I'd attend a
rehearsal if i had the chance. When you mentioend that
earlier in this thread Frank I was ready to chime in then
and state how important it is to me and the way I work.

Regards,
Richard


When I was a studio engineer, I tried to go see every band I was about to
record live; I'm talking R&R, Blues, Jazz here. If you haven't seen a
performer or group when they are really connected to their audience, then
you can't know if what your getting in the studio is the best they can do.
I know that's normally a producer's job, but with groups new to recording
the engineer usually had to also play the producer's role.



Steve is absolutely right.

But even if there is a producer, by catching the "live vibe" at a show you, as
engineer, can get a sense of a "musical arc" about the group -- how they perform,
how they relate, what they communicate -- even their "out of frame" personal and
group histories that influences who they are and what they do. (It's always good to
chat up the band a bit too, hopefully inspiring confidence and not unease! -- but
also quietly getting more background on their music and playing, perhaps even
getting some initial clues about their instruments/voices.)

It's conceivable the producer might miss some of that during the session; you can
gently back-stop that "loss" and try to make sure it's all being captured.

While I'm busy with my stuff, when needed I'll try to toss out a single word or
phrase that will remind or help the producer with something. (I know we all often
must produce and engineer at the same time; and that can be fun. But these days,
looking back, for anything but the simplest sessions I'm not so sure that's the best
way to go, even when it seems to have worked... YMMV)

Ya gotta be careful, though. Some producers start deferring to you, and that defeats
their purpose and distracts you. Or, they can start to wobble a bit if there's a
stronger personality out on the floor.

At this moment, in fact, I'm taking a break from editing an orchestral project where
the conductor got out in front -- he started producing from the podium. It sort of
works, though because at times there was not optimal production guidance from a
single authority -- the actual producer -- some of these edits are going to be
crazy, and it'll be interesting to get a final mix. (So far, the music is holding
up.)

But it's not ideal because while producing from the podium it felt as if conducting
duties might have been short-changed; and while the producer deferred to me or the
conductor, HIS job was perhaps short-changed -- things like watching tempos,
intonation, togetherness, etc.

This was a complex series of sessions with new clients; I wanted to make sure the
tech end was squeaky clean. Also, I did not want to overly and suddenly change the
session flow that had been established, quirky as it was good work was getting done.

But there will be some moments pulling digital rabbits out of hats (already had to
do this with some tempo mis-matches -- too many artifacts with PT's time stretcher
for this type of music, so tempos of some inserts were corrected manually: break
just in front of a beat transient, slip 10 or 20 ms, back-expand pre-transient of
the slid chunk and cross fade. Lather, repeat. Tedious, but at least it sounds
natural, believe it or not. (That's the solution if the insert was too fast; if too
slow you tighten chunks in a similar fashion.)

But I digress.

Thanks to Hank and Richard and others for their suggestions to recount more.

Actually, there are a few things along these lines in the works. I've been turning
down a fair amount of work lately in favor of doing some more teaching and writing.
It's a ways out, but coming. Thanks for the comments.


Frank
Mobile Audio
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Richard Webb[_3_] Richard Webb[_3_] is offline
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On Sun 2012-Feb-19 11:52, Steve King writes:
Indeed, would agree with Hank. I also find that, if i"m
going to be doing the producer's gig, or recording the folks live,
attending rehearsals, even with the surprises helps me have an idea what
to expect, and adapt to those last minute
gotchas. Even when I was doing the studio I'd attend a
rehearsal if i had the chance. When you mentioend that
earlier in this thread Frank I was ready to chime in then
and state how important it is to me and the way I work.


When I was a studio engineer, I tried to go see every band I was
about to record live; I'm talking R&R, Blues, Jazz here. If you
haven't seen a performer or group when they are really connected to
their audience, then you can't know if what your getting in the
studio is the best they can do. I know that's normally a producer's
job, but with groups new to recording the engineer usually had to
also play the producer's role.


Would agree with that as well. I used to try to attend a
gig even if I didn't do a rehearsal, especially with folks I knew weren't old hands at the studio, with no producer,
which is often the case with these folks. It's given me
some very useful info over the years that helps me plan
things to flow a bit smoother, even if doing the studio and
not live on location.

I remember one group, I've told some stories on these guys
in this ng before, we did their foundation tracks at a
warehouse downtown Burlington, Iowa. First time I heard
them was at one of these outdoor party/festival things, and
it was fairly drunk out for those guys that night. When I
was approached to record them I was dreading it, but wanting a chance to get a bit more familiar with my new digital
recording gear. So, I went to a gig they played at a local
club. They were actually sober and lucid that evening, so I got a much better idea what they were about.

I also had a chance that evening to sit down and talk with
them, to find out if they'd ever done the studio anywhere
before and waht they were happy with, and more important,
what they weren't. I was able to tell them to give me
examples of sounds they liked and wanted to reflect in their recording, especially drum sounds.

IT seemed one of the things they were most unhappy with, as
I expected when I found out they'd recorded before was drum
sounds. Everybody else that had recorded them either used
triggered electronic drums or close mic techniques, whereas
their drummer was more into the JOhn Bonham thing.

I'm setting up for the session at the warehouse, and teh
drummer's almost incredulous when he sees that I've got a
stereo pair of sd condensers, sm-81 iirc overhead, and a mic on the snare and one on the kick. HE's wondering where the
close mics are. We also had him in a big room and created a microclimate around him with large rolls of canvas.


A fun sesion, wish I'd done the final mixes for 'em, I'd be
more than happy to show them off to people, but I didn't,
and whoever did them screwed the pooch.


Regards,
Richard
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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default "Are Modern Recording Practices Damaging Music?"[OT]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Steve King wrote:

What they said. "What You Really Need to Know about Location Recording"


65VAC between the grounds of two different outlets at the 9:30 Club.
--scott


Why, that's just shocking!

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