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#1
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
I RECENTLY BORROWED MY FRIEND'S 1987 CD RELEASE OF "THRILLER"(MICHAEL
JACKSON), RIPPED SOME TRACKS AND LOADED THEM INTO AUDACITY. I THEN RIPPED THE SAME TRACK #S FROM MY "25TH ANNIV" THRILLER AND LOADED THEM INTO AUDACITY. MY WORST FEARS WERE CONFIRMED - "BEAT IT"(2007) WAVEFORM APPEARED BLOATED AND CLIPPED COMPARED TO THE CD FROM THE '80S. MY ADVICE: PURCHASE THE 25TH ANNIV THRILLER ONLY FOR TRACKS NOT ON THE ORIGINAL THRILLER ALBUM! AND TO POST- ENGINEERS: turn it down, please? -chriscoaster... |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Jan 30, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
I RECENTLY BORROWED MY FRIEND'S 1987 CD RELEASE OF "THRILLER"(MICHAEL JACKSON), RIPPED SOME TRACKS AND LOADED THEM INTO AUDACITY. *I THEN RIPPED THE SAME TRACK #S FROM MY "25TH ANNIV" THRILLER AND LOADED THEM INTO AUDACITY. MY WORST FEARS WERE CONFIRMED - "BEAT IT"(2007) WAVEFORM APPEARED BLOATED AND CLIPPED COMPARED TO THE CD FROM THE '80S. MY ADVICE: PURCHASE THE 25TH ANNIV THRILLER ONLY FOR TRACKS NOT ON THE ORIGINAL THRILLER ALBUM! *AND TO POST- ENGINEERS: turn it down, please? -chriscoaster... _________ Guess this got ignored because 80% of it was typed in Caps? I wasn't actually yelling; the caps was a poke at the loudness war and badly remastered compilations. -CC |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
MY WORST FEARS WERE CONFIRMED - "BEAT IT"(2007) WAVEFORM APPEARED
BLOATED AND CLIPPED COMPARED TO THE CD FROM THE '80S. That makes me sad and angry. Do you think that MJ had to sign off on that, or did it just happen as a matter of course? |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 10, 2:02*pm, Tobiah wrote:
MY WORST FEARS WERE CONFIRMED - "BEAT IT"(2007) WAVEFORM APPEARED BLOATED AND CLIPPED COMPARED TO THE CD FROM THE '80S. That makes me sad and angry. *Do you think that MJ had to sign off on that, or did it just happen as a matter of course? you may be interested in this http://turnmeup.org/ Mark |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
Tobiah writes:
That makes me sad and angry. Do you think that MJ had to sign off on that, or did it just happen as a matter of course? He probably wasn't even asked about it, unless there was a specific contractual obligation on the part of the music label to get his approval. Indeed, the contract could have been written to explicitly deny him the right to sign off on such things, but that would probably be unusual for a major artist (he just wouldn't be told about it). |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 11, 10:12*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Tobiah writes: That makes me sad and angry. *Do you think that MJ had to sign off on that, or did it just happen as a matter of course? He probably wasn't even asked about it, unless there was a specific contractual obligation on the part of the music label to get his approval.. Indeed, the contract could have been written to explicitly deny him the right to sign off on such things, but that would probably be unusual for a major artist (he just wouldn't be told about it). ______________ I'm sure he would have been all for a 25th Anniv. Edition release Thriller - he was alive at that point. My issue is, would he have approved what they DID to the original tracks from the 1982 release? And this is not just limited to Michael Jackson. If you were to go into a store today and purchase, say "Shakedown Street"(1978) on CD by the Gratful Dead, EVEN IT BORE NO INDICATION OF BEING REMASTERED OR A "REISSUE", CHANCES ARE IT HAS BEEN ****ED WITH AND WILL NEVER SOUND LIKE THE LP MASTER AGAIN. This is a CRIME what is going on. Now even the albums on which some these great hits were first heard are being altered without any actual notification to such effect on the packaging! So look over carefully the outside of that "Van Halen II" CD you're holding in the aisle at FYE or WalMart. If you see multiple copyright dates INCLUDING post-2000, chances are it has been ****ED with(that's my term for 'Remastering' - take it or leave it). If the copyright dates are from the 1970s and one from the 1980s, that's just a copyright on the original CD release and the music is proabably intact. Buy it in that case. As for the rest of you: hold on to your original CD releases(early '80s to mid-1990s) for dear life. They are the only link to the original sound of these artists!!! caps in protest of the loudness war -CC |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 10, 9:32*pm, Mark wrote:
On Feb 10, 2:02*pm, Tobiah wrote: MY WORST FEARS WERE CONFIRMED - "BEAT IT"(2007) WAVEFORM APPEARED BLOATED AND CLIPPED COMPARED TO THE CD FROM THE '80S. That makes me sad and angry. *Do you think that MJ had to sign off on that, or did it just happen as a matter of course? you may be interested in this http://turnmeup.org/ Mark ________________ Thanks Mark: I'm quite familiar with their efforts. I need to contact them and see what they are doing regarding the preservation of existing/archival works, not just material as it is being released. See my previous post case in point. For those who appreciate music this is a national emergency! -CC |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
ChrisCoaster wrote:
And this is not just limited to Michael Jackson. If you were to go into a store today and purchase, say "Shakedown Street"(1978) on CD by the Gratful Dead, EVEN IT BORE NO INDICATION OF BEING REMASTERED OR A "REISSUE", CHANCES ARE IT HAS BEEN ****ED WITH AND WILL NEVER SOUND LIKE THE LP MASTER AGAIN. Actually, you picked one of the few exceptions. The Dead have been very, very careful about CD reissues and getting them right, probably more so than any other organization out there. What's really sad is to find old folk and jazz stuff that has been crushed... there's _no reason_ to do it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 11, 12:34*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
ChrisCoaster wrote: And this is not just limited to Michael Jackson. *If you were to go into a store today and purchase, say "Shakedown Street"(1978) on CD by the Gratful Dead, EVEN IT BORE NO INDICATION OF BEING REMASTERED OR A "REISSUE", CHANCES ARE IT HAS BEEN ****ED WITH AND WILL NEVER SOUND LIKE THE LP MASTER AGAIN. Actually, you picked one of the few exceptions. *The Dead have been very, very careful about CD reissues and getting them right, probably more so than any other organization out there. What's really sad is to find old folk and jazz stuff that has been crushed... there's _no reason_ to do it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." _______________ Well I've learned my lessons Scott: I'm buying no more 'reissues", "ReMasters", or "Greatest Hits" compilations! It's off to the "Friends of the Library" used music section and used record stores and tag sales for this old fogey! -ChrisCoaster |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Jan 30, 9:28*pm, ChrisCoaster wrote:
I RECENTLY BORROWED MY FRIEND'S 1987 CD RELEASE OF "THRILLER"(MICHAEL JACKSON), RIPPED SOME TRACKS AND LOADED THEM INTO AUDACITY. *I THEN RIPPED THE SAME TRACK #S FROM MY "25TH ANNIV" THRILLER AND LOADED THEM INTO AUDACITY. MY WORST FEARS WERE CONFIRMED - "BEAT IT"(2007) WAVEFORM APPEARED BLOATED AND CLIPPED COMPARED TO THE CD FROM THE '80S. MY ADVICE: PURCHASE THE 25TH ANNIV THRILLER ONLY FOR TRACKS NOT ON THE ORIGINAL THRILLER ALBUM! *AND TO POST- ENGINEERS: turn it down, please? -chriscoaster... ____________________ And by the way, mister big record label or big time act: You can't fool this old pro at spotting an altered track. I'll load it into Pro Tools or Audacity and know it's been meddled with just by the brickwalled sections of its wave form and how little the meters move up and down when I play it! Watch out! The reissue/remastering sheriff has entered the studio. -CC |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On 2/11/2012 12:34 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote: And this is not just limited to Michael Jackson. If you were to go into a store today and purchase, say "Shakedown Street"(1978) on CD by the Gratful Dead, EVEN IT BORE NO INDICATION OF BEING REMASTERED OR A "REISSUE", CHANCES ARE IT HAS BEEN ****ED WITH AND WILL NEVER SOUND LIKE THE LP MASTER AGAIN. Actually, you picked one of the few exceptions. The Dead have been very, very careful about CD reissues and getting them right, probably more so than any other organization out there. What's really sad is to find old folk and jazz stuff that has been crushed... there's _no reason_ to do it. --scott I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 11, 1:30*pm, Ron Capik wrote:
I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On 2/11/2012 5:21 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Feb 11, 1:30 pm, Ron wrote: I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC No, they screwed with the tempo. I never listened enough to hear what else they screwed with. Later... Ron Capik -- |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 11, 5:54*pm, Ron Capik wrote:
On 2/11/2012 5:21 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 1:30 pm, Ron *wrote: I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. *They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. *But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC No, they screwed with the tempo. I never listened enough to hear what else they screwed with. Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________________ Man! I'd love to get a RIP of that CD! I'd at least re-equalize the songs and slow them down. LOL! |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On 2/11/2012 6:09 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Feb 11, 5:54 pm, Ron wrote: On 2/11/2012 5:21 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 1:30 pm, Ron wrote: I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC No, they screwed with the tempo. I never listened enough to hear what else they screwed with. Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________________ Man! I'd love to get a RIP of that CD! I'd at least re-equalize the songs and slow them down. LOL! Seems I didn't quite make myself clear. So I sent Chris a clip. I'll leave it to him review it if he cares. Again, there's NOTHING anywhere in the packaging to suggest that this was anything but a transcription. I don't believe he still wants "a RIP of that CD." Later... Ron Capik -- |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 12, 10:10*am, Ron Capik wrote:
On 2/11/2012 6:09 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 5:54 pm, Ron *wrote: On 2/11/2012 5:21 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 1:30 pm, Ron * *wrote: I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. *They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. *But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC No, they screwed with the tempo. I never listened enough to hear what else they screwed with. Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________________ Man! I'd love to get a RIP of that CD! I'd at least re-equalize the songs and slow them down. LOL! Seems I didn't quite make myself clear. So I sent Chris a clip. I'll leave it to him review it if he cares. Again, there's NOTHING anywhere in the packaging to suggest that this was anything but a transcription. I don't believe he still wants "a RIP of that CD." Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________ I hope you read my e-mail. I stand corrected in it not being a remaster, but I hope my feedback also makes sense to you. -CC |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On 2/12/2012 10:48 AM, ChrisCoaster wrote:
On Feb 12, 10:10 am, Ron wrote: On 2/11/2012 6:09 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 5:54 pm, Ron wrote: On 2/11/2012 5:21 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 1:30 pm, Ron wrote: I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC No, they screwed with the tempo. I never listened enough to hear what else they screwed with. Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________________ Man! I'd love to get a RIP of that CD! I'd at least re-equalize the songs and slow them down. LOL! Seems I didn't quite make myself clear. So I sent Chris a clip. I'll leave it to him review it if he cares. Again, there's NOTHING anywhere in the packaging to suggest that this was anything but a transcription. I don't believe he still wants "a RIP of that CD." Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________ I hope you read my e-mail. I stand corrected in it not being a remaster, but I hope my feedback also makes sense to you. -CC Read your feedback. I don't think compilation and reissue warnings really applied to CDs from ~1991. I don't believe truth in packaging issues were (quite as) rampant back then. Later.... Ron Capik -- |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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THE LOUDNESS WAR IS REAL!
On Feb 12, 10:56*pm, Ron Capik wrote:
On 2/12/2012 10:48 AM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 12, 10:10 am, Ron *wrote: On 2/11/2012 6:09 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 5:54 pm, Ron * *wrote: On 2/11/2012 5:21 PM, ChrisCoaster wrote: On Feb 11, 1:30 pm, Ron * * *wrote: I bought a Ventures CD several years back. The cover art was identical to the old LP. Nothing to indicate that it was any different from the LP. It wasn't compresses to hell, it was disco-ized. The thing was un-listen-able. Later... Ron Capik -- _________________________ Well, sounds like SOMETHING was done to it. *They probably stuck a Swiss Alp's worth of bottom at either 100Hz or below. LMAO! BTW I've done the same thing in Audacity to older tracks that were from LP master tapes that contained nothing below 60-70Hz. *But I did it conservatively and by constantly analyzing and listening to what I was doing. The Ventures post-producers probably just applied a boiler plate EQ to the low end and ****ED it all up! -CC No, they screwed with the tempo. I never listened enough to hear what else they screwed with. Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________________ Man! I'd love to get a RIP of that CD! I'd at least re-equalize the songs and slow them down. LOL! Seems I didn't quite make myself clear. So I sent Chris a clip. I'll leave it to him review it if he cares. Again, there's NOTHING anywhere in the packaging to suggest that this was anything but a transcription. I don't believe he still wants "a RIP of that CD." Later... Ron Capik --- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - ______________ I hope you read my e-mail. I stand corrected in it not being a remaster, but I hope my feedback also makes sense to you. -CC Read your feedback. I don't think compilation and reissue warnings really applied to CDs from ~1991. I don't believe truth in packaging issues were (quite as) rampant back then. Later.... Ron Capik _____ Well it's a trend that gained momentum very slowly. As for the loudness aspect eaklings of that began to appear as early as the mid '90s according to a good website which I cannot recall on that subject. Louder CDs and compressed remastering really picked up momentum at the turn of the last decade. Has it come to a front? I hope so. Technically there is only so far you can go with compressing so much audio information into a 1 to 2 dB range of amplitude. Clipping can and will start to occur as low as -5dB digital VU! Talk about diminishing returns. I experimented with this in Audacity and the effects of layered/hyper compression are downright DANGEROUS for both playback equipment and for our EARS. Now as for what are clearly reMAKES as in the case of your Ventures, this has been going on for a long time! I'm going through some of my parents' compilation vinyl from 20-30 years ago containing such acts as the Penguins and the Marcels. And in fact, some of the versions of the songs on there were rerecorded by THOSE GROUPS at least a decade after their heyday - when those songs first shot up the charts. So again for those buying 'Greatest Hits' compilations - either of one group or of an entire era(Fab 50s or Sensational 70s or whenever) - READ THE PACKAGING and BE CAREFUL! regards, -CC |
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