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#1
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided
between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! -- Jason |
#2
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Jason Wong said: I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! This audiophile says Denons have better base and Yamahas have better surround processors. But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few more cables, of course. |
#3
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Jason Wong said: I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! This audiophile says Denons have better bass and Yamahas have better surround processors. But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few more cables, of course. |
#4
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I'm not an audiophile, per se, but from what I've read, heard and
experienced, George is spot on about Denons producing a better bass sound and Yamaha being the better sound processor. At that price range, you should go for the Yamaha because it sounds like you'd probably have lower-end speakers that won't handle bass too well anyhow, so might as well go for the better overall sound. "George M. Middius" wrote in message ... Jason Wong said: I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! This audiophile says Denons have better base and Yamahas have better surround processors. But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few more cables, of course. |
#5
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing
through both operating manuals. 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output 3) Does the Denon remote not have TV Input button? No VCR record button? Do the number keys have no use in VCR mode (i.e. selecting channels). |
#6
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.
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#7
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
This audiophile says Denons have better base...
Better base? You mean the cabinet is sturdier? |
#8
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck said: Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. That's quite stupid. Buy the one you prefer. |
#9
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... "George M. Middius" wrote in message ... This audiophile says Denons have better base... Better base? You mean the cabinet is sturdier? Regrettably, that's the extent of Middius' understanding of audio. |
#10
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
But we're supposed to the tell the guy what his preference _should_ be.
George M. Middius wrote... William Sommerwerck said: Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. That's quite stupid. Buy the one you prefer. |
#11
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message ... Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing through both operating manuals. I have a Yamaha 5550, and love it to bits. It's my first system, and I was working to a budget (no sub) but it's great for the money. Having quickly looked at the Denon specs (and obviously exhibting bias here), if it bothers you, neither amp has true 6.1 outputs, but while the Denon doesn't appear to have any 6.1 capability, the 5550 can handle 6.1 inputs by converting them to 5.1 and using a 'virtual' 6th speaker (which basically means output from the two rear surrounds). It's not ideal, but it does work surprisingly well. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output My DVD player only had coaxial output, and after being initially concerned, I found this isn't something to worry about at all. Yes it has coaxial input, but not for the default DVD channel. I think the default coaxial input is CD. However, it's *very* easy to reconfigure the input labels in the menu system so that the DVD signal is read from the coaxial input. The manual tells you how to do it. The remote is good, though how compatible you can make it with your other equipment will depend upon the make of equipment. It works brilliantly with my Sony DVD, but not at all with my, ahem, Schneider TV. Matrix 6.1, changing inputs, and remote configuration are all in the manual. |
#12
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Why?
-- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. |
#13
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message ... Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing through both operating manuals. 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? It translates into no difference. Espen B |
#14
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message ... Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing through both operating manuals. 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? Not at all. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output. Why worry about having two optical players? |
#15
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.
Why? Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha. |
#16
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:28:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... "George M. Middius" wrote in message .. . This audiophile says Denons have better base... Better base? You mean the cabinet is sturdier? Regrettably, that's the extent of Middius' understanding of audio. Welcome back, Arnold. Just goes to show that the vacation didn't do anything for your outlook. |
#17
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
In alt.home-theater.misc William Sommerwerck wrote:
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. Why? Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, Wow, talk about praising with faint damns. Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one which has the most features he wants. Since he specifically mentioned that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. It's not price-correlated. I have a Yammy 5540 and a Harmon Kardon AVR520; the latter cost several hundred more than the former, and has more features and power, but happens to be *less* configurable in DPL II made than the Yammy. The Yammies allow you to adjust 'panorama' and a few other user-configurable features of DPL II , whereas the H-K has a 'fixed' DPL II config. Don't know about the Denon. -- -S. |
#18
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"crazysaybi" wrote in message
... I'm not an audiophile, per se, but from what I've read, heard and experienced, George is spot on about Denons producing a better bass sound and Yamaha being the better sound processor. At that price range, you should go for the Yamaha because it sounds like you'd probably have lower-end speakers that won't handle bass too well anyhow, so might as well go for the better overall sound. If Denons produce a better bass sound, and Yamaha have a better surround processor, are there any of the same comparisions that can be made with the low end Onkyo and Harmon Kardon receivers? Since the other 2 mentioned here have areas that they are better at, I was just wondering if these 2 brands have a "trademark" area. Thanks for your help, Matt |
#19
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
dave weil said: Welcome back, Arnold. Just goes to show that the vacation didn't do anything for your outlook. Ask Mr. **** if he's received the court papers yet. Of course, it's a well established pattern for him to be extra-nasty after a "vacation". |
#20
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Steven Sullivan said: Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one which has the most features he wants. Believe it or not, even $300 receivers can be distinguished sonically. Is sound quality a "feature"? Since he specifically mentioned that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. Cue Krooger to natter on snottily about digital media. |
#21
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Matt said: If Denons produce a better bass sound, and Yamaha have a better surround processor, are there any of the same comparisions that can be made with the low end Onkyo and Harmon Kardon receivers? Since the other 2 mentioned here have areas that they are better at, I was just wondering if these 2 brands have a "trademark" area. My comment about the bass response and surround processing was a subjective opinion, not a well-known fact. Same for the other guy who agreed with me. Personally, I'd favor the Denon on just those two characteristics, but there are probably other factors you value. That said, my experience with inexpensive HK receivers is they sound "soft", i.e. much less chance of a glassy or tinkly sound in high frequencies. Also, I've found that deep bass that sounds jarring on some systems is also a little softer with an HK. However..... it's been at least 2 years since I spent any time with one. No opinion about Onkyos. P.S. My strongest opinion is to ignore everything you hear from Sommerdork. He's a twerp, an ideologue, and a total git. His claim that Yamahas have a bad rep is a case in point. They don't have a bad rep; quite the reverse. |
#22
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"George M. Middius" wrote in message ... dave weil said: Welcome back, Arnold. Just goes to show that the vacation didn't do anything for your outlook. Ask Mr. **** if he's received the court papers yet. Ask sockpuppet Wheel if he's panhandled the filing fee yet. |
#23
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided
between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! An audiophile would spend the $400 on a better stereo amp and actually get decent tone. |
#24
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Sugarite said: An audiophile would spend the $400 on a better stereo amp and actually get decent tone. I think the guy wants a surround amp. But look, here's one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 973 and another: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 973 and some lower-priced options: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 973 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 973 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 973 There are also pre/pros available ebay, although not many with DPL2. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 974 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 974 |
#25
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
P.S. My strongest opinion is to ignore everything you hear from
Sommerdork. He's a twerp, an ideologue, and a total git. His claim that Yamahas have a bad rep is a case in point. They don't have a bad rep; quite the reverse. One of the nice things about having an odd name is that it reveals how profoundly un-clever people are in coming up with abusive variations. I hold a BS EE, was at one time a serious amateur recordist, and reviewed for over a decade at Stereophile. I won't offend you by naming the people in the hi-fi industry who respect my opinion, whether or not they agree with me. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. The fact is, Yamaha products rarely received favorable reviews in the audiophile press. If you don't like that, tough, but that's the way it is. Some years ago I reviewed the Yamaha DSP-1 (an ambience synthesizer) for Stereophile. I "assumed" no one would be foolish enough to run the front channels of their system through such a product, regardless of the manufacturer. Unfortunately, I neglected to drive this point home and received a number of brickbats from readers complaining about how the DSP-1 degraded the sound of their system. I remember a Yamaha surround processor whose rear channels sounded as if someone had thrown a blanket over the speakers. If I wanted a "modest" product from a Japanese manufacturer, I wouldn't waste my time listening to Yamaha when there's Denon and Onkyo, two companies that _do_ get consistently good reviews in the audiophile press. In fact, The Abso!ute Sound recently remarked that a fairly expensive ($4K) Denon processor was sonically superior to a number of more-expensive components from high-end audiophile companies. There is one other factor, of course... If this customer is so worried about the sound quality of a stinking receiver (I spent more than three times that for my phono pickup, and that was at accommodation price), why doesn't he borrow the units and listen to them, hmmm? That's how you learn. That's how you make the decisions that are right for _you_. |
#26
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
In alt.home-theater.misc George M. Middius wrote:
Steven Sullivan said: Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one which has the most features he wants. Believe it or not, even $300 receivers can be distinguished sonically. Is sound quality a "feature"? Middius, eh? I remember rec.audio.opinion from before you befouled it. *plonk* -- -S. |
#27
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck said: P.S. My strongest opinion is to ignore everything you hear from Sommerdork. He's a twerp, an ideologue, and a total git. His claim that Yamahas have a bad rep is a case in point. They don't have a bad rep; quite the reverse. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. Not in this case. The only rap I've ever heard about Yamaha is that bricks & mortar dealers don't give much discount off list. |
#28
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck said:
I hold a BS EE, was at one time a serious amateur recordist, and reviewed for over a decade at Stereophile. I won't offend you by naming the people in the hi-fi industry who respect my opinion, whether or not they agree with me. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. Please...we don't need another Ferstler. Boon |
#29
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually
know what I'm talking about. Not in this case. The only rap I've ever heard about Yamaha is that bricks & mortar dealers don't give much discount off list. I'm talking 25 years ago and more. There was a time when "a certain class" of hi-fi dealers sold Yamaha, B&O, and Macintosh. (You never saw just one or two of these brands in the stores -- always These Three. (That's a movie-title joke.) These were considered the top brands by "the great unwashed," so such dealers didn't get much respect from audiophiles. I do not, however, believe that this is the source of the disrespect for Yamaha. After all, the first Denon products in this country were mass-market garbage, which was _never_ the case with Yamaha. Yamaha simply didn't produce consistently good products. Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. |
#30
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Is someone who records live performances, but isn't paid for it.
What an "amateur recordist", is? |
#31
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck wrote: Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Was that the natural sound series? I had a cassette deck and a tuner from this series. |
#32
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Reasonable. I just hate when people don't qualify there remarks.
Clay -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. Why? Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha. |
#33
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:07:54 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: After all, the first Denon products in this country were mass-market garbage Untrue. |
#34
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:29:52 -0500, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Untrue again. |
#35
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:29:52 -0500, Rob Adelman
wrote: William Sommerwerck wrote: Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Was that the natural sound series? I had a cassette deck and a tuner from this series. I still have a CDX-410U that I bought in 1987. It skips a bit and the door doesn't always open. I'm going to take it to the shop to get cleaned, etc. and use in my second system. I also have an AX-500 amp, TX-500 tuner, K-340B and KX-930 Cassette decks. Brad |
#36
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William has quite some credentials. I trust that he does indeed know his
stuff and I don't want to sound at all confrontational here... If you read auto magazines like "Car and Driver", for example, they tend to have a bias towards Hondas/Acuras and BMWs. Those "in the know", stereophiles in this case, seem to disregard other manufacturers because they have their own trusted favorites, which is not to discredit their opinions at all. With that said, from all the (extensive) research and auditioning that I've done, I'd have to agree that Denons are indeed the best overall for amps and receivers. Even the salespeople who listen to them all the time agree that Denons are the best overall (although it makes one wonder if they get higher commission for pitching them, but that's a matter for another thread). The salespeople did rate the Yamahas second best overall with Onkyos coming in a close third. However, dollar for dollar, I do believe that Yamahas are the best. I own a Yamaha integrated amp... no complaints here. But ultimately it's all in what YOU hear. Try to "audition" holding as many variables constant as possible. Yamaha Reviews: http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_130572_2718crx.aspx http://ic.dealtime.com/xPR-Yamaha_HT...RD-96984141444 Denon Reviews: http://www.audioreview.com/Receivers...x.aspx#reviews "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... P.S. My strongest opinion is to ignore everything you hear from Sommerdork. He's a twerp, an ideologue, and a total git. His claim that Yamahas have a bad rep is a case in point. They don't have a bad rep; quite the reverse. One of the nice things about having an odd name is that it reveals how profoundly un-clever people are in coming up with abusive variations. I hold a BS EE, was at one time a serious amateur recordist, and reviewed for over a decade at Stereophile. I won't offend you by naming the people in the hi-fi industry who respect my opinion, whether or not they agree with me. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. The fact is, Yamaha products rarely received favorable reviews in the audiophile press. If you don't like that, tough, but that's the way it is. Some years ago I reviewed the Yamaha DSP-1 (an ambience synthesizer) for Stereophile. I "assumed" no one would be foolish enough to run the front channels of their system through such a product, regardless of the manufacturer. Unfortunately, I neglected to drive this point home and received a number of brickbats from readers complaining about how the DSP-1 degraded the sound of their system. I remember a Yamaha surround processor whose rear channels sounded as if someone had thrown a blanket over the speakers. If I wanted a "modest" product from a Japanese manufacturer, I wouldn't waste my time listening to Yamaha when there's Denon and Onkyo, two companies that _do_ get consistently good reviews in the audiophile press. In fact, The Abso!ute Sound recently remarked that a fairly expensive ($4K) Denon processor was sonically superior to a number of more-expensive components from high-end audiophile companies. There is one other factor, of course... If this customer is so worried about the sound quality of a stinking receiver (I spent more than three times that for my phono pickup, and that was at accommodation price), why doesn't he borrow the units and listen to them, hmmm? That's how you learn. That's how you make the decisions that are right for _you_. |
#37
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck wrote:
George M. Middius wrote... William Sommerwerck said: Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. That's quite stupid. Buy the one you prefer. But we're supposed to the tell the guy what his preference _should_ be. That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. |
#38
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. Rubbish. If you want "opinion", listen to this poster. If you want helpful advice, listen to everyone else. |
#39
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Your DVD player can probably play CD's too so it's not a problem. I have
a Yamaha receiver with 3 optical and one coax input. Arny Krueger wrote: "Jason Wong" wrote in message ... Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing through both operating manuals. 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? Not at all. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output. Why worry about having two optical players? |
#40
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
It was the 303, I believe. Don't remember the alpha prefix.
I remember when it came out ca. 1986 (?). It was the first CD player that got grudgingly favorable reviews. Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Untrue again. |
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