Hi,

I have just sold a Linn Sondek LP12 and the buyer has emailed me saying
that he has connected it to his amp and is getting no line level, (and
presumably no sound).

It was working perfectly with my CyrusIII amp so, before responding, I
thought I would ask what the possible problems could be.

I am not a hifi buff, and usually find that things work when you plug
them into the right sockets.

Many Thanks

--
Richard Faulkner

"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have just sold a Linn Sondek LP12 and the buyer has emailed me saying
that he has connected it to his amp and is getting no line level, (and
presumably no sound).

It was working perfectly with my CyrusIII amp so, before responding, I
thought I would ask what the possible problems could be.

I am not a hifi buff, and usually find that things work when you plug
them into the right sockets.


The turntable needs to be plugged into a phono preamplifier in order to work
properly. Most older amplifiers, and a few current high-end preamps have
them built in, but if not and he plugs into a line level input he will hear
practically nothing, and what he does hear will sound awful since it lacks
proper RIAA equalization.

If his amp doesn't have a built in phono preamp, he will have to buy an
external used unit. They are available from many manufacturers and on the
used market.

Hope this helps.

In message , Harry Lavo
writes
"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have just sold a Linn Sondek LP12 and the buyer has emailed me saying
that he has connected it to his amp and is getting no line level, (and
presumably no sound).

It was working perfectly with my CyrusIII amp so, before responding, I
thought I would ask what the possible problems could be.

I am not a hifi buff, and usually find that things work when you plug
them into the right sockets.


The turntable needs to be plugged into a phono preamplifier in order to work
properly. Most older amplifiers, and a few current high-end preamps have
them built in, but if not and he plugs into a line level input he will hear
practically nothing, and what he does hear will sound awful since it lacks
proper RIAA equalization.

If his amp doesn't have a built in phono preamp, he will have to buy an
external used unit. They are available from many manufacturers and on the
used market.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the help.

Very much confirms the answer I got from uk.rec.audio.

Anyway.. I've given him his money back and will sell to someone who
knows what they are doing, (now that I know how it works g)

--
Richard Faulkner

Are we getting that far away from vinyl that younger people have no
conception of a phono preamp?
"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
In message , Harry Lavo
writes
"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have just sold a Linn Sondek LP12 and the buyer has emailed me saying
that he has connected it to his amp and is getting no line level, (and
presumably no sound).

It was working perfectly with my CyrusIII amp so, before responding, I
thought I would ask what the possible problems could be.

I am not a hifi buff, and usually find that things work when you plug
them into the right sockets.


The turntable needs to be plugged into a phono preamplifier in order to
work
properly. Most older amplifiers, and a few current high-end preamps have
them built in, but if not and he plugs into a line level input he will
hear
practically nothing, and what he does hear will sound awful since it
lacks
proper RIAA equalization.

If his amp doesn't have a built in phono preamp, he will have to buy an
external used unit. They are available from many manufacturers and on
the
used market.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the help.

Very much confirms the answer I got from uk.rec.audio.

Anyway.. I've given him his money back and will sell to someone who
knows what they are doing, (now that I know how it works g)

--
Richard Faulkner

"scott and barb" wrote in message
..

Seems to come up a lot these days. I've run into it when selling a Marcoff
PPA-2 headamp on Audiogon, and again in the Vinyl section of the Audio
Asylum. But when you think of it, it is logical. Many people are now in
their early forties who have never had a phonocentric stereo system. And we
are not born with innate knowledge of cartridge equalization, VTA's,
vinyl-damping, mc vs mm output and required gain, etc. So those of us who
do know vinyl try to help those just getting into it...they almost aways
become enthusiasts once the make the entry.
...
Are we getting that far away from vinyl that younger people have no
conception of a phono preamp?
"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
In message , Harry Lavo
writes
"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have just sold a Linn Sondek LP12 and the buyer has emailed me
saying
that he has connected it to his amp and is getting no line level,
(and
presumably no sound).

It was working perfectly with my CyrusIII amp so, before responding,
I
thought I would ask what the possible problems could be.

I am not a hifi buff, and usually find that things work when you plug
them into the right sockets.


The turntable needs to be plugged into a phono preamplifier in order to
work
properly. Most older amplifiers, and a few current high-end preamps
have
them built in, but if not and he plugs into a line level input he will
hear
practically nothing, and what he does hear will sound awful since it
lacks
proper RIAA equalization.

If his amp doesn't have a built in phono preamp, he will have to buy an
external used unit. They are available from many manufacturers and on
the
used market.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the help.

Very much confirms the answer I got from uk.rec.audio.

Anyway.. I've given him his money back and will sell to someone who
knows what they are doing, (now that I know how it works g)

--
Richard Faulkner

scott and barb wrote:
Are we getting that far away from vinyl that younger people have no
conception of a phono preamp?

It's worse than that. How many people in your town do you know
that still play vinyl at all, let alone people who are high-end
audiophiles?! And worse still, have you noticed that the audio
shops are primarily home theatre shops now?

I took my LP-12 into the Linn dealer shop, in San Rafael, CA,
a few months ago. It's in a very upscale area. A lot of people
with a lot of money. 95% of their business is home theatre.
They still have plenty of excellent high-end audio lines, but
the big deal is now home theatre.

This is not just a matter of interest in vinyl dying. It's interest
in 2 channel audio that's dying!

Young people listen to mp3 sources played back on their ipod players
or on their computer speakers. CDs are too much trouble now, let
alone the effort it takes to properly listen to vinyl, not to mention
the care one should be taking with vinyl.

Another problem that audio dealers have is that they compete with
all the good used gear that is out there. Let's face it. There
really haven't been significant advances in analog electronics for
some time now. Good tube amps still hold their value and are
typically less money on EBay than they are from a retailer.

Why spend $5k on a new power amp when you can score a used
Rowland Research amp for half that money? Audiophiles typically
take very good care of their equipment. People who care a great
deal about sound quality are also meticulous in the way they
use their gear.

We 2 channel audiophiles are a dying breed. The vinyl guys
are even fewer in number.

Russ

scott and barb wrote:

Are we getting that far away from vinyl that younger people have no
conception of a phono preamp?
==============================================

Young wannabe technician said to me one day, as I fiddled with the
intricacies of a old and recalcitrant Dual 1229:

"How can that play music? All it really does is SPIN."

-GP

This is perhaps the main reason that Linn advises against their customers
setting up their own systems. While I personally don't agree, I can see their
reason just the same. If one is knowledgeable enough, then setting up a LP12
turntable isn't really too difficult (though it can take some time to get it
right). If someone doesn't know what a phono stage is, then it is advisable
to have someone knowledgeable set up the system. My thoughts.

Russ Button wrote:

scott and barb wrote:
Are we getting that far away from vinyl that younger people have no
conception of a phono preamp?

It's worse than that. How many people in your town do you know
that still play vinyl at all, let alone people who are high-end
audiophiles?! And worse still, have you noticed that the audio
shops are primarily home theatre shops now?

I took my LP-12 into the Linn dealer shop, in San Rafael, CA,
a few months ago. It's in a very upscale area. A lot of people
with a lot of money. 95% of their business is home theatre.
They still have plenty of excellent high-end audio lines, but
the big deal is now home theatre.

This is not just a matter of interest in vinyl dying. It's interest
in 2 channel audio that's dying!

Young people listen to mp3 sources played back on their ipod players
or on their computer speakers. CDs are too much trouble now, let
alone the effort it takes to properly listen to vinyl, not to mention
the care one should be taking with vinyl.

Another problem that audio dealers have is that they compete with
all the good used gear that is out there. Let's face it. There
really haven't been significant advances in analog electronics for
some time now. Good tube amps still hold their value and are
typically less money on EBay than they are from a retailer.

Why spend $5k on a new power amp when you can score a used
Rowland Research amp for half that money? Audiophiles typically
take very good care of their equipment. People who care a great
deal about sound quality are also meticulous in the way they
use their gear.

We 2 channel audiophiles are a dying breed. The vinyl guys
are even fewer in number.

Russ

Actually that is the typical cycle of technological substitution and
obsolescence. When a new replacement technolgy is introduced on the horizon the
existing technology nearly instantly gets improved and prices fall
dramatically. For example we knew in the early 70s that radial tracking
tonearms were superior to pivoted arms but while there were a few radial
trackers on the market they were extra-ordinarily expensive and often fussy to
use. But once CD hit the market you could buy an inexpensive close-n-play
record player with a radial tracking tonearm.

Then, as the replaced technology hits the residual-use phase prices again rise
as older customers demand equipment for archival and playback of existing
colections and sometimes new uses of the older technology get implemented
(think of turntablists.)

Supply is maintained as as manufacturing plants of the old technology are
fully-amortized and can be purchased for pennies on the dollar and because
rising prices are less resisted by residual use customers there are excellent
margins available for the supply of even small markets (nobody is building new
manufacturing facilities to supply tiny markets) because there are few
competing suppliers.

As for the passing of 2-channel customers many people forget that older basic
formats don't disappear with subsequent format introduction. For example mono
didn't disappear with the introduction of stereo, it just got better over the
years, and we now listen to more mono than we ever did with the expansion of
broadcast media .... news, weather, talk shows anyone.

Likewise 2-channel hasn't and will never disappear even with the advent of
Dolby Digital, DTS, SACDand DVD-A. It's just made better with Dolby Digital
Pro-Logic IIx and DTS Neo6 and Lexicon Logic 7. There's far too much legacy
media for 2-channel to ever disappear.

What has happened is that modern customers enjoy their 2-channel programming in
Stereo or an enhanced up-mix in their Home Theater systems.

It is true that the vinyl 2-channel only system fell into the residual-use
phase of the technology life cycle and the retailer channel reflect this.

But, personally I continue to enjoy my stereo material in Logic 7 on a daily
basis.

In article , Nousaine wrote:
Russ Button wrote:

dramatically. For example we knew in the early 70s that radial tracking
tonearms were superior to pivoted arms but while there were a few radial

In theory, yes; in actual practice, not necesarily. Servo controlled arms
were noisy, and even if the servo mechanism worked perfectly when new it
wasn't long before there was enough slop to cause more tracking error than
a properly set up pivoted arm.

One of the funniest test reports I saw was a Boston Audio Society test of
turntables in the 70's; there was a middlebrow Technics turnatable with
a middlebrow cartridge whose actual performance was way above a number of high
end tables of the time, particularly in frequency response (high end MC vs
middle brow MM cartridges).

Mike Squires
TD-125II/SME II/Grado
--

Mike Squires (mikes at cs.indiana.edu) 317 233 9456 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes at siralan.org 546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408

"Michael Squires" wrote in message
...
In article , Nousaine
wrote:
Russ Button wrote:

dramatically. For example we knew in the early 70s that radial tracking
tonearms were superior to pivoted arms but while there were a few radial

In theory, yes; in actual practice, not necesarily. Servo controlled arms
were noisy, and even if the servo mechanism worked perfectly when new it
wasn't long before there was enough slop to cause more tracking error than
a properly set up pivoted arm.

One of the funniest test reports I saw was a Boston Audio Society test of
turntables in the 70's; there was a middlebrow Technics turnatable with
a middlebrow cartridge whose actual performance was way above a number of
high
end tables of the time, particularly in frequency response (high end MC vs
middle brow MM cartridges).


Yeah, and which sounded better?