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  #1   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.
  #2   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say

it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.



  #3   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near 2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.



  #4   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:

Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.







  #5   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers


(scratching my nutts as I look at the Directed website seeing the 2003 models
and thinking, What's JD trying to say?)


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near 2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.





  #6   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

I can see spending more time in the insides the outsides, fitting an Orion or
PPI mainboard into an Alpine case is not an easy task.

In article , John Durbin
wrote:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090001030608000608000608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:

  #7   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers


You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say

it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.



  #8   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro

look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such

as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to

say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.





  #9   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch about
it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina



"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

(scratching my nutts as I look at the Directed website seeing the 2003

models
and thinking, What's JD trying to say?)


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near

2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:

I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say

it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.





  #10   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

In article eZnzb.411468$Fm2.417582@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

I'm I on crack?, no. Very good and thank for the history lession. Take a good
look, and I mean I good look at the PPi-2150M and Orion GX line of
amplifiers. The heatsinks are the same, the end plates and even the screws are
the same, further more the The RCA connectors are the same. Hey is that a DIN
plug on the side of the PPi-2150M for a bridging module, you know like the one
on the Orion Gx line?



Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro

look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such

as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to

say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.






  #11   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

What are you smoking? If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL Until the 2004 line is available to the
public, the 2003 line is still current, so what is your point?


In article c_nzb.411477$Fm2.417805@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch about
it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina



  #12   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

ha ha ha
Like I have been telling you fools for years, they
are all made in the same garage in Tiawan!

ha ha ha

Captain Howdy wrote:

If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL


  #13   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

SO? Lots of companies get parts from the same vendors. And how do you know
it was PPI that stole anyone's design (assuming there was any copying in the
first place)?



Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
In article eZnzb.411468$Fm2.417582@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

I'm I on crack?, no. Very good and thank for the history lession. Take a

good
look, and I mean I good look at the PPi-2150M and Orion GX line of
amplifiers. The heatsinks are the same, the end plates and even the screws

are
the same, further more the The RCA connectors are the same. Hey is that a

DIN
plug on the side of the PPi-2150M for a bridging module, you know like the

one
on the Orion Gx line?



Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro

look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies,

such
as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines.

Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just

like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to

say
it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.






  #14   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

JD was saying that it took you almost a year to realize that they look like
an Alpine. He never debated them being current. Only that your powers of
observation ar a little.......lacking.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
What are you smoking? If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL Until the 2004 line is available to the
public, the 2003 line is still current, so what is your point?


In article c_nzb.411477$Fm2.417805@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch

about
it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina





  #15   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers


Paul, to tell you the truth. I didn't know that Directed even made car audio.
I only went to their website to checkout their alarm gear. I live by Toronto,
Ontario and no one sells their stuff around here, other then their alarms.

In article Ydyzb.409825$HS4.3314528@attbi_s01, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
JD was saying that it took you almost a year to realize that they look like
an Alpine. He never debated them being current. Only that your powers of
observation ar a little.......lacking.


Paul Vina





  #16   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Back in those days, Orion ampifier heatsinks were hand crafted, in their Tempe
AZ factory. The Orion GX line was out way before the PPI Art Series line. The
PPI Art Series line came out around the same time as the Orion SX line of
amplifiers. I'm not saying that PPI stole anything. What I am saying is that
they bough the GX line from Orion and repained them and sold them as their
early Art Series line. A short time after the Art Series came out PPI changed
the case to a finless rounded end heatsink like the one found on the A100 and
A200 amplifier. The next time that you come across a PPI 2075AM, 4200AM or
2150M, take a close look and you'll see what I mean.

Here is another inferesting fact that many people are unaware of, PPI used to
sell gear under the Phaze Audio name.






In article xcyzb.416545$Fm2.424716@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
SO? Lots of companies get parts from the same vendors. And how do you know
it was PPI that stole anyone's design (assuming there was any copying in the
first place)?



Paul Vina



  #17   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

And Linear Power had amps that looked like that too. Big deal. I also
doubt Orio was making their own heatsinks. Almost everyone, even today,
buys them from a 3rd party.



Paul Vina



"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
Back in those days, Orion ampifier heatsinks were hand crafted, in their

Tempe
AZ factory. The Orion GX line was out way before the PPI Art Series line.

The
PPI Art Series line came out around the same time as the Orion SX line of
amplifiers. I'm not saying that PPI stole anything. What I am saying is

that
they bough the GX line from Orion and repained them and sold them as their
early Art Series line. A short time after the Art Series came out PPI

changed
the case to a finless rounded end heatsink like the one found on the A100

and
A200 amplifier. The next time that you come across a PPI 2075AM, 4200AM or
2150M, take a close look and you'll see what I mean.

Here is another inferesting fact that many people are unaware of, PPI used

to
sell gear under the Phaze Audio name.






In article xcyzb.416545$Fm2.424716@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
SO? Lots of companies get parts from the same vendors. And how do you

know
it was PPI that stole anyone's design (assuming there was any copying in

the
first place)?



Paul Vina





  #18   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Linar Power, (also known as Eye Candy amps) amps looked nothing like it Orion,
they had full rap around fins on their heats sinks with stainless steel end
plates. They also had/ have their heatsinks drilled out on the inside to fit
the metal bi-polor trasistors that they use.

Doubt it or not, The fact is that Orion had their own tool shop and their hand
crafted heatsinks made right in their Tempe AZ plant. Just in case you didn't
know the heatsinks came in four colors. Black, SX, Red HCCA and custom chrome
or gold plated with the option of having your name engraved.


n article EWGzb.424418$Fm2.427533@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
And Linear Power had amps that looked like that too. Big deal. I also
doubt Orio was making their own heatsinks. Almost everyone, even today,
buys them from a 3rd party.



Paul Vina



  #19   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Yes I know, I sold them for 4 years.



Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
Linar Power, (also known as Eye Candy amps) amps looked nothing like it

Orion,
they had full rap around fins on their heats sinks with stainless steel

end
plates. They also had/ have their heatsinks drilled out on the inside to

fit
the metal bi-polor trasistors that they use.

Doubt it or not, The fact is that Orion had their own tool shop and their

hand
crafted heatsinks made right in their Tempe AZ plant. Just in case you

didn't
know the heatsinks came in four colors. Black, SX, Red HCCA and custom

chrome
or gold plated with the option of having your name engraved.


n article EWGzb.424418$Fm2.427533@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:
And Linear Power had amps that looked like that too. Big deal. I also
doubt Orio was making their own heatsinks. Almost everyone, even today,
buys them from a 3rd party.



Paul Vina





  #20   Report Post  
sancho
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers


"Captain Howdy" wrote in message

I'm I on crack?, no.


HA... fuggin classic...




  #22   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

I'm in Hamilton and no one around here sell their amplifiers. There two
dealers that sell some of their lower end alarms. Their alarms aren't that
great of a value anyways. 5 years ago I bought their Viper 300+ alarm for
$345 with tax. A year before that, I bought an Audiovox alarm for the wife's
car for $115 with tax, with the same options all the way to the same sounding
horn. The remotes even have the same range. Both alarms are on their second
car now, both still work fine, other then the viper has started locking up for
some reason about 8 months ago, this only happened 3 times so far. When this
happens the parking lights will flash once or twice to show system arm or
disarm without a beep and when the alarm is triggered the horn does not work.
Unplugging the alarm fuse gets it working again. With this problem aside. The
only difference is that the Viper this far cost me $69 a year to own. The
Audiovox alarm being a year older cost me $19.16 to own this far. If I have
bought 3 Audiovox alarms the price of owning them would have been the same as
the viper, yet two of those alarms would still be unused. Most people don't
see this since the average person owns their car for 2-5 years and most often
sells their alarm with the car. Those that do remove their alarms or try to
have their alarms removed quickly learn the fact that most install shops will
not reinstall used alarms.


It truely is a shame that they are not that well represented....I've
seen them around here though (I'm in Toronto). Definitely don't get
everything available from them though. Too bad.....The distributor
Directed Canada and Automobility in Montreal haven't penetrated the
Toronto market......

  #23   Report Post  
AZSPL
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

In late 1997 or early 1998 - Ted Guenther and his sister, who owned PPI sold
the company to Phase Audio. PPI came under the direction of Phase Audio and
was shortly broke. From there it was sold to Orion/Ads and then on to Directed
Electronics.

In its original state - PPI had good products and an excellent reputation.
Directed is huge and has the ability to revive PPI given time.

Alma Gates
www.teamgates.org


  #24   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
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Wow,
Alma I haven't seen you post in forever! How are you doing?


Paul Vina




"AZSPL" wrote in message
...
In late 1997 or early 1998 - Ted Guenther and his sister, who owned PPI

sold
the company to Phase Audio. PPI came under the direction of Phase Audio

and
was shortly broke. From there it was sold to Orion/Ads and then on to

Directed
Electronics.

In its original state - PPI had good products and an excellent reputation.
Directed is huge and has the ability to revive PPI given time.

Alma Gates
www.teamgates.org




  #25   Report Post  
sancho
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

iirc

'phaze' audio made and/or marketed tube amps (somehow affiliated with
butler) and metal coned speakers before and after the ppi acquisition...

i found a page to confirm while i was composing this:
http://www.butleraudio.com/bk.html

i believe they are what captain howdy referred to when he said, "Here is
another inferesting fact that many people are unaware of, PPI used to
sell gear under the Phaze Audio name."
--
sancho
inferesting indeed


"AZSPL" wrote in message
...
In late 1997 or early 1998 - Ted Guenther and his sister, who owned PPI

sold
the company to Phase Audio. PPI came under the direction of Phase Audio

and
was shortly broke. From there it was sold to Orion/Ads and then on to

Directed
Electronics.

In its original state - PPI had good products and an excellent reputation.
Directed is huge and has the ability to revive PPI given time.

Alma Gates
www.teamgates.org






  #26   Report Post  
AZSPL
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Hello Paul,
I read R.A.C.all the time - just seldom post unless something catches my eye as
in PPI. PPI will always have a very special place in my life and I just want
things straight..It was a great company that was destroyed by outsiders.
Things happen that you cannot control and this was one of them. I have been
with DEI (Python) for a few years now and was pleased that they were able to
purchase PPI.

Only time will tell what happens.


  #27   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
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I guess the point would be, thanks for stopping by finally, i.e. we put
that stuff up during CES in Jan 2003, and you just now got a look.

JD
making a mental note to shill more on RAC in the off-season

Captain Howdy wrote:

(scratching my nutts as I look at the Directed website seeing the 2003 models
and thinking, What's JD trying to say?)


In article , John Durbin
wrote:


(scratching my head as I look at the calendar showing it's damn near 2004)

thanks for stopping by...

JD
better late than never, I suppose

Captain Howdy wrote:



I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say it,
but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.





  #28   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

What the hell would we want to do that for? Product cloning is for
pussies, and we were shipping the Directed amps before we even bought
ADST. At least, the PCB designs - the mechanical design changed in 2002
at CES which was a month and half after the acquisition. But I'm not
offended, it's a very common misconception. I am however thinking you
haven't ever looked very close at any PCB's for the three brands in
question.

Actually, if you want to know the real story, we paid a top industrial
designer for both the Directed and the Viper amps mechanicals that
year... but Viper was having its big launch so we intentionally dialed
back the Directed to a more conservative look so Viper would be the
attention-getter.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

I can see spending more time in the insides the outsides, fitting an Orion or
PPI mainboard into an Alpine case is not an easy task.

In article , John Durbin
wrote:


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090001030608000608000608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:




  #29   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

Captain Howdy wrote:

You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro look.You
thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such as
the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.





  #30   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

When we came along, there were essentially three companies living
together under one roof. They did share a few things here and there,
like Orion speaker systems that used a/d/s/ driver parts, and once upon
a time an a/d/s/ powered sub that used an Orion woofer, but for the most
part the brands did not mix at all. Not a bad thing in many ways, but
far from efficient.

JD

Paul Vina wrote:

Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...


You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro


look.You


thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such


as


the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
. ..


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to


say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.











  #31   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

The GX heat sink was not the same as the PPI model you're talking about.
It was wider, and flatter. They did at some point make Orion amps that
were taller, not as wide, and longer - The Beast for example - but still
not the same metal. Again, at the time you're talking, these were two
separate companies. PPI did do some contract manufacturing for a couple
of companies - Crutchfield and Phillips USA as I recall - but they never
built for Orion. In fact, if you know any of the people from either
organization, I think they'd have died before they shared any designs or
parts.

As to the RCA's and the socket-head Allen bolts, give me a break
already... if the most you can say to prove your point is that they
bought from the same parts supplier. or picked the same connector out of
a catalog, you're grasping at straws. I can buy the same bolts today -
in fact, I have a few boxes sitting in my garage - from local bolt
suppliers like Ababa. They were used by virtually everybody that was
bolting products like this together in the US back then. My old Zapco's
use them and so did Audiomobile.

As to the DIN plug, the commonality is that both companies have a common
ancestry dating back to Jim Fosgate, and some people that learned a lot
about amps from him in the early days of the Phoenix car audio
explosion. He had phantom power DIN cable designs to drive outboard
processors as early as 1977 - I had two of them in my VW Rabbit at the
time. So yes, both companies used phantom power for their processors for
several years. Big whoop...

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

In article eZnzb.411468$Fm2.417582@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:

I'm I on crack?, no. Very good and thank for the history lession. Take a good
look, and I mean I good look at the PPi-2150M and Orion GX line of
amplifiers. The heatsinks are the same, the end plates and even the screws are
the same, further more the The RCA connectors are the same. Hey is that a DIN
plug on the side of the PPi-2150M for a bridging module, you know like the one
on the Orion Gx line?





Are you on crack? PPI and Orion were two separate companies until ADST
bought them both. Even then the designs were still separate.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


You're right. I dont see nothing wrong with a little bit of the retro


look.You


thought that I would point that out. Just like back in the day When PPI
repainted Orion GX amplifiers and sold them as the PPI art searies, such


as


the PPi-2150M

In article dcdzb.287021$ao4.1001827@attbi_s51, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


Maybe like old Alpines. They look nothing like the current Alpines. Not
that there's anything wrong with that. A bunch of amps looked just like
that in the early and mid 90's.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


I just seen the 2003 Directed amplifiers at their website. I hate to


say


it,


but they look like Alpine V12 knock-offs.







  #32   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

that was my first assessment ... based on the content of some other
posts, I'm thinking of shifting it lower :-)

JD

Paul Vina wrote:

JD was saying that it took you almost a year to realize that they look like
an Alpine. He never debated them being current. Only that your powers of
observation ar a little.......lacking.


Paul Vina




"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
.. .


What are you smoking? If I didn't notice that they looked like Alpines, I
wouldn't of posted the fact. LOL Until the 2004 line is available to the
public, the 2003 line is still current, so what is your point?


In article c_nzb.411477$Fm2.417805@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


That you didn't notice they looked like Alpines (or chose not to bitch


about


it, anyway) until 2 months before CES when they're likely to be replaced.




Paul Vina










  #33   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

No they weren't ... they have been buying heat sinks from outside
suppliers for many years. Many of them that would love to collect what
they were owed on the several occasions one company or the other in
Phoenix stiffed them.

Do you even remember wht Art series looked like? It has no fins, a
triangular shape at one edge and a circular roll at the opposite edge.
The top cover was white painted steel with pretty pictures painted on
it. I defy you to find me an Orion that has EVER looked like that.

The original GX amps had the same heat sink as the original HCCA,
predated them actually ... I know, I became an authorized dealer for the
brand in 1987. The GX were black with silver machined accent strips, and
the HCCA were a dark red with the same machined strips. They both used
phantom power DIN inputs, although RCA's were provided for use when you
weren't driving them with an Orion processor. There is a later GX
mechanical design, before it became the SX series and later Extreme stuff.

At the timethe GX came out, PPI was making such models as the 4030,
2075, that kind of stuff. They migrated to the longer, skinny models not
long afterwards - like the big surfboard stuff - 2200, 2350, those kind
of critters. When the Art series came out, it changed the mechanical
look 100% and was very different than anything anyone else in the US was
making or would make, before being replaced itself by the first-gen
PowerClass models in 1987. You are simly wrong in what you're saying -
and I will be glad to have one of the two surviving vice presidents of
Orion and Precision Power, or their amplifier parts procurement manager,
all of whom I work with daily, confirm that you're wrong. Or, you could
just let it go.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

Back in those days, Orion ampifier heatsinks were hand crafted, in their Tempe
AZ factory. The Orion GX line was out way before the PPI Art Series line. The
PPI Art Series line came out around the same time as the Orion SX line of
amplifiers. I'm not saying that PPI stole anything. What I am saying is that
they bough the GX line from Orion and repained them and sold them as their
early Art Series line. A short time after the Art Series came out PPI changed
the case to a finless rounded end heatsink like the one found on the A100 and
A200 amplifier. The next time that you come across a PPI 2075AM, 4200AM or
2150M, take a close look and you'll see what I mean.

Here is another inferesting fact that many people are unaware of, PPI used to
sell gear under the Phaze Audio name.






In article xcyzb.416545$Fm2.424716@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


SO? Lots of companies get parts from the same vendors. And how do you know
it was PPI that stole anyone's design (assuming there was any copying in the
first place)?



Paul Vina






  #34   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

You're talking about the secondary machining required for assembly...
the heat sinks were from an outside supplier, they brought them in bulk
and cut them there. many amp mfr's did this in house, some still do. I
remember touring the Zapco facility in Modesto back in the 80's after
they had just acquired a big machine for milling and tapping holes, etc.
- they had been doing it by hand with a drill press before that!

Still has nothing to do with PPI ... if it would help, I could call a
buddy that worked in the metal shop and drove a forklift around the
place before he moved into the front office, and ask him what flavor of
crack you might be on... or, maybe a couple of the speaker designers
that worked there as well.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

Linar Power, (also known as Eye Candy amps) amps looked nothing like it Orion,
they had full rap around fins on their heats sinks with stainless steel end
plates. They also had/ have their heatsinks drilled out on the inside to fit
the metal bi-polor trasistors that they use.

Doubt it or not, The fact is that Orion had their own tool shop and their hand
crafted heatsinks made right in their Tempe AZ plant. Just in case you didn't
know the heatsinks came in four colors. Black, SX, Red HCCA and custom chrome
or gold plated with the option of having your name engraved.


n article EWGzb.424418$Fm2.427533@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


And Linear Power had amps that looked like that too. Big deal. I also
doubt Orio was making their own heatsinks. Almost everyone, even today,
buys them from a 3rd party.



Paul Vina






  #35   Report Post  
John Durbin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Phaze bought PPI ... then, they damn near killed it by creating bogus
receivables so the bank would keep lending them money to buy more
product, which they then tried to sell off to pay the bank, but never
getting ahead in the process. Whole thing was the end result of a very
ambitious plan to grow the business aggressively which was why they also
brought in the off-shore PPI amp line, and the C1/C2 subs and matching
speaker lines. It all came crashing down around 1999? Something like
that... we looked at the time but didn't make an offer, and ADST ended
up absorbing them.

JD

sancho wrote:

iirc

'phaze' audio made and/or marketed tube amps (somehow affiliated with
butler) and metal coned speakers before and after the ppi acquisition...

i found a page to confirm while i was composing this:
http://www.butleraudio.com/bk.html

i believe they are what captain howdy referred to when he said, "Here is
another inferesting fact that many people are unaware of, PPI used to
sell gear under the Phaze Audio name."
--
sancho
inferesting indeed


"AZSPL" wrote in message
...


In late 1997 or early 1998 - Ted Guenther and his sister, who owned PPI


sold


the company to Phase Audio. PPI came under the direction of Phase Audio


and


was shortly broke. From there it was sold to Orion/Ads and then on to


Directed


Electronics.

In its original state - PPI had good products and an excellent reputation.
Directed is huge and has the ability to revive PPI given time.

Alma Gates
www.teamgates.org











  #36   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

John, I know their not a clone, I just wanted to hear your 2 cents. But they
do look like the older Apline V12's.


In article , John Durbin
wrote:
What the hell would we want to do that for? Product cloning is for
pussies, and we were shipping the Directed amps before we even bought
ADST. At least, the PCB designs - the mechanical design changed in 2002
at CES which was a month and half after the acquisition. But I'm not
offended, it's a very common misconception. I am however thinking you
haven't ever looked very close at any PCB's for the three brands in
question.

Actually, if you want to know the real story, we paid a top industrial
designer for both the Directed and the Viper amps mechanicals that
year... but Viper was having its big launch so we intentionally dialed
back the Directed to a more conservative look so Viper would be the
attention-getter.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

I can see spending more time in the insides the outsides, fitting an Orion or
PPI mainboard into an Alpine case is not an easy task.

In article , John Durbin
wrote:


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090001030608000608000608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

could have something to do with us having spent more on the insides than
the outsides, too...

JD
or not

Paul Vina wrote:




  #37   Report Post  
Captain Howdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

John here's a pic of the 2150M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 797

Here's a pic of the Art Series
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

Are you sure the 2150M isn't an Art model?

Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796





In article , John Durbin
wrote:
dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo

  #38   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

Maybe he's had a little too much "Ear Candy"!



Paul Vina




"John Durbin" wrote in message
...
You're talking about the secondary machining required for assembly...
the heat sinks were from an outside supplier, they brought them in bulk
and cut them there. many amp mfr's did this in house, some still do. I
remember touring the Zapco facility in Modesto back in the 80's after
they had just acquired a big machine for milling and tapping holes, etc.
- they had been doing it by hand with a drill press before that!

Still has nothing to do with PPI ... if it would help, I could call a
buddy that worked in the metal shop and drove a forklift around the
place before he moved into the front office, and ask him what flavor of
crack you might be on... or, maybe a couple of the speaker designers
that worked there as well.

JD

Captain Howdy wrote:

Linar Power, (also known as Eye Candy amps) amps looked nothing like it

Orion,
they had full rap around fins on their heats sinks with stainless steel

end
plates. They also had/ have their heatsinks drilled out on the inside to

fit
the metal bi-polor trasistors that they use.

Doubt it or not, The fact is that Orion had their own tool shop and their

hand
crafted heatsinks made right in their Tempe AZ plant. Just in case you

didn't
know the heatsinks came in four colors. Black, SX, Red HCCA and custom

chrome
or gold plated with the option of having your name engraved.


n article EWGzb.424418$Fm2.427533@attbi_s04, "Paul Vina"
wrote:


And Linear Power had amps that looked like that too. Big deal. I also
doubt Orio was making their own heatsinks. Almost everyone, even today,
buys them from a 3rd party.



Paul Vina








  #39   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

I know what you mean. When Phaze bought PPI I wan't a real happy camper
personally but it did make my job easier since I wasn't selling PPI so it
was easier to get people to look at my product.
I was really happy when DEI bought ADST and decided to give the line some
attention.


Paul Vina



"AZSPL" wrote in message
...
Hello Paul,
I read R.A.C.all the time - just seldom post unless something catches my

eye as
in PPI. PPI will always have a very special place in my life and I just

want
things straight..It was a great company that was destroyed by outsiders.
Things happen that you cannot control and this was one of them. I have

been
with DEI (Python) for a few years now and was pleased that they were able

to
purchase PPI.

Only time will tell what happens.




  #40   Report Post  
Paul Vina
 
Posts: n/a
Default Directed Amplifiers

They're similar, but not the same. The fins on the Orion are laid down more
where the PPIs are more vertical. Profile used to have amos that looked
like these too. Maybe PI and Orion stole the designs from them! Ass.




Paul Vina



"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
John here's a pic of the 2150M

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 797

Here's a pic of the Art Series

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796

Are you sure the 2150M isn't an Art model?

Here's a pic of a Orion GX amplifier, what does that remind you of?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=18 796





In article , John Durbin
wrote:
dude, where do you get this stuff?!! Anyone who has ever had their hands
on them knows that Art Series had absolutely nothing in common with
Orion. The two were different companies up until the very late 90's.
Also, the 2150M isn't an Art model. Orion never made an amp with no
fins, ever.

JD
I'm not the 100% expert on that period of the two company's histories
mind you but everything you've written so far that has "Orion" or "PPI"
in it has been totally boofoo



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