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dave mad on sounds
 
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Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver

Having bought a pair of Rogers ls6a speakers last week I hooked them
up to my 80 watt Plinius pre power amp and spent a great night
listening to a variety of music reggae, rock , jazz. The next day I
had an opportunity to test the ls6as at higher volumes. The music was
loud with the amp between 70% and 80% load. I was listening to
Leftfield "Leftism" and ON-U sound system. This music is quite bassy
and electronic. I didn't hear any distortion but then at the same
volume there was a small amount. I turned down the speakers with evry
thing still seeming okay. When I returned to play music later there
was a problem with one speaker. Even at moderate
volume the bass is indistinct distorted and rattley. I transferred the
bass driver from one cabinet to other and have isolated this as the
problem. I have a couple of question as to how to proceed and also
avoid the problem in the future.
1 Do you think I should send just the bass driver and ask that it be
repaired by having the coil rewound (the likely problem) or the
complete speakers and have them fully tested graphed and serviced.
2 Should I be able to play this bassy electronic music at higher
volumes or should I adopt a more conservative approach? I would be
satisfied with using these speakers at moderate volumes but would like
to be able to have an occasional party with some dance music. Is this
unsuitable?
3 The speakers came with stands and were on these when the problem
occurred however these didn't have their spikes down as I hadn't set
them up yet and because the floor is wooden. Could this create the
issue the speaker stand where the damaged bass driver was did afford
some movement due to unevenness? A possible cause?

I dearly love these speakers and would like suggestions as to how to
maximize my listening pleasure.

Dave Winter
  #2   Report Post  
The Flash
 
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Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver


I dearly love these speakers and would like suggestions as to how to
maximize my listening pleasure.

Dave Winter


Try http://www.loudspeakersonline.com/re....new/index.htm



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Ross Matheson
 
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Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver

(dave mad on sounds) wrote:
in rec.audio.tech977193c4.0312020122.7654a52@posting .google.com,

: Having bought a pair of Rogers ls6a speakers last week I hooked them
: up to my 80 watt Plinius pre power amp and spent a great night
: listening to a variety of music reggae, rock , jazz. The next day I
: had an opportunity to test the ls6as at higher volumes. The music was
: loud with the amp between 70% and 80% load. I was listening to
: Leftfield "Leftism" and ON-U sound system. This music is quite bassy
: and electronic. I didn't hear any distortion but then at the same
: volume there was a small amount. I turned down the speakers with evry
: thing still seeming okay. When I returned to play music later there
: was a problem with one speaker. Even at moderate
: volume the bass is indistinct distorted and rattley. I transferred the
: bass driver from one cabinet to other and have isolated this as the
: problem. I have a couple of question as to how to proceed and also
: avoid the problem in the future.
: 1 Do you think I should send just the bass driver and ask that it be
: repaired by having the coil rewound (the likely problem) or the
: complete speakers and have them fully tested graphed and serviced.

Yes. Well, over to you after consultation but maybe just the faulty unit.
Best local contact (as a multiply pleased and happy customer) is
AXENT AUDIO PRODUCTS LTD: Loudspeaker & Audio Specialists
25 Portage Rd New Lynn Auck Ph (09)827-1220 Fax (09)826-0302
email: sales AT axent.co.nz (I've munged that!)

: 2 Should I be able to play this bassy electronic music at higher
: volumes or should I adopt a more conservative approach? I would be
: satisfied with using these speakers at moderate volumes but would like
: to be able to have an occasional party with some dance music. Is this
: unsuitable?

It's possible you drove them too hard, I suppose, but you should look into
everything ... perhaps it was already slightly compromised, maybe the
extended session has caused an overheated and swelling voicecoil ... does
the surround look intact? Cabinet sound and airtight (apart from port)?
Seems like just a single damaged bass driver from your description IMO.

I have an expat friend who has, I think, a kit version of these ... Axent
were able to help. [I wonder if the crossover is worth inspecting, too.]

: 3 The speakers came with stands and were on these when the problem
: occurred however these didn't have their spikes down as I hadn't set
: them up yet and because the floor is wooden. Could this create the
: issue the speaker stand where the damaged bass driver was did afford
: some movement due to unevenness? A possible cause?

I doubt it. Absolutely not. (Face, it, the driver is stuffed! ;=})

: I dearly love these speakers and would like suggestions as to how to
: maximize my listening pleasure.
:
: Dave Winter

Axent are THE specialists in NZ for speaker repair, test, development etc.
Just contact them and see what they say - I'm sure they handle Rogers.
Best of luck. I'm sure you'll be helped!

Ross Matheson
nz not zn

PS: They weren't these ones, were they? ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/xnsz
  #4   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver

Ross Matheson wrote:

: Having bought a pair of Rogers ls6a speakers last week I hooked them
: up to my 80 watt Plinius pre power amp and spent a great night
: listening to a variety of music reggae, rock , jazz. The next day I
: had an opportunity to test the ls6as at higher volumes. The music was
: loud with the amp between 70% and 80% load.


How was it determined that the amp was between 70 and 80 percent load?

: I was listening to
: Leftfield "Leftism" and ON-U sound system. This music is quite bassy
: and electronic.


OK, something modern, overcompressed bass-junked crap. That genre of
music, and the music itself can indeed be excellent, tends to contain
large amounts of very deep bass, something like 10 dB more than a
probable powerhanding asumptions for your loudspeakers assumes.

: I didn't hear any distortion but then at the same
: volume there was a small amount.


It takes time to heat a voicecoil, once it is hot it expands, and in all
likelyhood a single turn got loose and scraped.

: I turned down the speakers with evry
: thing still seeming okay.


Yes, but voice coil heat expansion was not yet done.

: When I returned to play music later there
: was a problem with one speaker. Even at moderate
: volume the bass is indistinct distorted and rattley.


Probable problem: multiple windings has left the coil former and scrape
against the magnet.

: 1 Do you think I should send just the bass driver and ask that it be
: repaired by having the coil rewound (the likely problem) or the
: complete speakers and have them fully tested graphed and serviced.


Which is to say that you feel bad about it and worry whether you also
destroyed the other one. No - it still works or Yes - send them both.
You have received advice about a local service facility, you should ask
them. It is highly probable that the service recommendation in case it
is about a reconing is to recone both units in a stereo pair, but it may
matter more with some membranes than with others.

Yes. Well, over to you after consultation but maybe just the faulty unit.
Best local contact (as a multiply pleased and happy customer) is
AXENT AUDIO PRODUCTS LTD: Loudspeaker & Audio Specialists
25 Portage Rd New Lynn Auck Ph (09)827-1220 Fax (09)826-0302
email: sales AT axent.co.nz (I've munged that!)


: 2 Should I be able to play this bassy electronic music at higher
: volumes


Yes, with suitable loudspeakers and or with sane use of the volume
control. Generally that type of music requires and deserves a subwoofer.

: or should I adopt a more conservative approach?


Sir, you have purchased loudspeakers designed for on site monitoring of
location recordings of The Academy of Saint Martins in the Fields, the
Ridgeway Bach Choir and the like.

You are - politely said - utterly out of your mind if you think you can
use such loudspeakers for MumboJumbo of the JumbleJungleBazzRamTaTa if
played at party levels after consuming even modest amounts of alcohol.

Reason #1 is the very simple one that you loose 3 dB
sensitivity pr. bottle of beer or glass of fine wine.

Reason #2 is that the excellent loudspeakers you have
are quite unable to reproduce anything below some 45 Hz.

Reason #3 is that those very same excellent loudspeakers
have a RMS powerhandling of some 20 to 40 watts continuous
sinewave. (twice that for "integrated programme", twice
that for "music power", add VAT and you get a 200 watts spec
that I can not believe is the factory spec for RMS but it
may well be the recommended max amplifier size) (x)

(x) max amplifier size == kinda like the amp that will not have enough
power to push the bass unit voicecoil through the membrane on an
orchestral bass drum hit nor melt the treble unit with a single cymbal
hit, nothing like using it for max power in sinewaves or broadband
noise.

: I would be
: satisfied with using these speakers at moderate volumes but would like
: to be able to have an occasional party with some dance music. Is this
: unsuitable?


Most. You have to understand that powerhandling is about average power,
and the type of music that goes well with a party may have an average
power as high as -6 dB relative to max power (25 percent). That is the
asumption done when specifying powerhandling for rock loudspeakers,
consequently mostly also an asumption that includes the possiblity of
gravely (more than 10 dB) clipped poweramps. If ya wanna do that kind of
music under that kind of conditions then get that kinda loudspeakers and
do remember to read the warning label about damage to your hearing.

In contrast the music and sound production style the designer(s) of your
loudspeakers had in mind is likely to have an average power no higher
than -15 dB relative to max power and generally -20 dB, only if via
compressed FM broadcast - and not all broadcast of classical/acoustic
music is compressed, not even all webcast, say BBC - will it reach -10
dB. It is fairly easy to see that a recommended max amplifier size of
200 watts with at most 1 to 5, worst case 10 percent used when averaged
makes a lot more sense in the context of a loudspeaker with a probable
40 watts RMS powerhandling.

It's possible you drove them too hard, I suppose, but you should look into
everything ...


If he drove the amp to 80 percent based on the volume control being at
"8" on a scale to 10, the he clipped is amp gravely.

perhaps it was already slightly compromised,


As good an explanation as any other of why that one and not the other.
But is is kinda like having a slighly damaged piston in a car, you can
drive 100 miles with it with no problems or 100000 miles and not knowing
it, no extra oil used, and it will not matter. It will only matter the
next time the engine overheats in which case that will be the piston
that "has a problem".

Yes, it actually may even have died the first time and scraped loudly,
but it came back and lived on because the voice coil contracted
reasonably back in shape.

maybe the
extended session has caused an overheated and swelling voicecoil ... does
the surround look intact? Cabinet sound and airtight (apart from port)?
Seems like just a single damaged bass driver from your description IMO.


I have an expat friend who has, I think, a kit version of these ... Axent
were able to help. [I wonder if the crossover is worth inspecting, too.]


It usually takes a larger amp than 80 watts to really whack a cross-over
.... if the shop is nearly or freight is cheap, then by all means, if it
is far away or freight is costly then it does come to mind not to ship
the boxes along, but only the relevant unit(s).

: I dearly love these speakers and would like suggestions as to how to
: maximize my listening pleasure.


Respect them as classical performes, they are not the Johnny Winter's of
the speakerworld, rather the Menuhin's.

Oh, and get a sub if you wanna do bass, be it organs or synths.
Reasonable powered subs may start as low as some 150 of your local
dollars if they are only for party use. Subs actually able to do deep
bass may cost more .... O;-) ... and I will still suggest looking for
something far more sturdy, Cerwin Vega's or something like that, for
party noisemaking. I think Behringer has a not-too-costly &
I-wonder-how-good powered PA speaker that may make sense in case you
want to play Abba on the back porch ...

: Dave Winter


Axent are THE specialists in NZ for speaker repair, test, development etc.
Just contact them and see what they say - I'm sure they handle Rogers.
Best of luck. I'm sure you'll be helped!


Ross Matheson
nz not zn


PS: They weren't these ones, were they? ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/xnsz


Thanks for coming up with that link with a picture of the loudspeaker
model, it was most helpful for the guesstimates above, mind you folks:
guesstimates.


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #5   Report Post  
Michael McKelvy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver


"dave mad on sounds" wrote in message
m...
Having bought a pair of Rogers ls6a speakers last week I hooked them
up to my 80 watt Plinius pre power amp and spent a great night
listening to a variety of music reggae, rock , jazz. The next day I
had an opportunity to test the ls6as at higher volumes. The music was
loud with the amp between 70% and 80% load. I was listening to
Leftfield "Leftism" and ON-U sound system. This music is quite bassy
and electronic. I didn't hear any distortion but then at the same
volume there was a small amount. I turned down the speakers with evry
thing still seeming okay. When I returned to play music later there
was a problem with one speaker. Even at moderate
volume the bass is indistinct distorted and rattley. I transferred the
bass driver from one cabinet to other and have isolated this as the
problem. I have a couple of question as to how to proceed and also
avoid the problem in the future.
1 Do you think I should send just the bass driver and ask that it be
repaired by having the coil rewound (the likely problem) or the
complete speakers and have them fully tested graphed and serviced.
2 Should I be able to play this bassy electronic music at higher
volumes or should I adopt a more conservative approach? I would be
satisfied with using these speakers at moderate volumes but would like
to be able to have an occasional party with some dance music. Is this
unsuitable?
3 The speakers came with stands and were on these when the problem
occurred however these didn't have their spikes down as I hadn't set
them up yet and because the floor is wooden. Could this create the
issue the speaker stand where the damaged bass driver was did afford
some movement due to unevenness? A possible cause?

Stands aren't the problem. It could be they are just old, IIRC they don't
make these anymore, correct?

My recollection is that these were designed for the Beeb's guys to use in
the sound trucks and so forth for nearfield listening. They have an
exaggerated bass response bump to give a sense of bass bigger than they
should have for the size. Characteristic of a sealed box woofer in to small
a box. There were 2 or 3 woofers that could be used, but memory fails me at
this point as to what they are. I beleive tehy are mentioned in one of my
old Speaker Builder mags, so I'll check and see what I can find.

Probably, you could just to your search engine and type in Rogers LS6a and
get more info than you can use.



I dearly love these speakers and would like suggestions as to how to
maximize my listening pleasure.

Dave Winter





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Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver

Michael McKelvy wrote:

My recollection is that these were designed for the Beeb's guys to use in
the sound trucks and so forth for nearfield listening. They have an
exaggerated bass response bump to give a sense of bass bigger than they
should have for the size.


You are writing about the BBC version of the LS3/5A, a very different
loudspeaker, with a 5 inch bass unit and a 7 liter cabinet. I'm the
happy owner of a plainclothes version and re-arranging the damping
material and adding a front to back brace (actually mainly to keep the
re-arrranged damping material in place, but it also gave improved
rigidity) was very beneficial.

Probably, you could just to your search engine and type in Rogers LS6a and
get more info than you can use.


A link to a photograph of the actual speakers has been posted by someone
else along the thread.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #7   Report Post  
Michael McKelvy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Rogers LS6a suitability bass driver


"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

My recollection is that these were designed for the Beeb's guys to use

in
the sound trucks and so forth for nearfield listening. They have an
exaggerated bass response bump to give a sense of bass bigger than they
should have for the size.


You are writing about the BBC version of the LS3/5A, a very different
loudspeaker, with a 5 inch bass unit and a 7 liter cabinet. I'm the
happy owner of a plainclothes version and re-arranging the damping
material and adding a front to back brace (actually mainly to keep the
re-arrranged damping material in place, but it also gave improved
rigidity) was very beneficial.

Probably, you could just to your search engine and type in Rogers LS6a

and
get more info than you can use.


A link to a photograph of the actual speakers has been posted by someone
else along the thread.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

I stand corrected.
Thanks.
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********



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