Hello there,

I've read quite a bit about gain controls here and there and I'm trying to
work around my configuration... but I'm finding some trouble. Maybe you
can help me...

HU: OEM Subaru cd player - don't say anything, I know, I know... ;-)
Amp: Pioner 35x4
front: Kicker 40w component (80 max)
rear: Kicker 20w coaxial (40 max)

When I go up with the rear channel gain control it does not do "much"... I
mean, it sounds louder, but I don't get much distortion (not to say no
distortion at all).

However, when I tried to adjust the front gain control, I'm getting much
more distortion... it sounds great at lower volume, but it does get
distortion on the "right side". Trebbles are OK, Mids OK too, Basses are
the problem.

Is this normal? That the rear speakers are not getting distortion even
though they are of lower power?

Any specific suggestion on how to adjust my amp or this is just normal?

I'd appreciate your help. Tanks in advance.


Cheers,

MO

"Matias Orchard" wrote in message
...
Hello there,

I've read quite a bit about gain controls here and there and I'm trying to
work around my configuration... but I'm finding some trouble. Maybe you
can help me...

HU: OEM Subaru cd player - don't say anything, I know, I know... ;-)
Amp: Pioner 35x4
front: Kicker 40w component (80 max)
rear: Kicker 20w coaxial (40 max)

When I go up with the rear channel gain control it does not do "much"... I
mean, it sounds louder, but I don't get much distortion (not to say no
distortion at all).

However, when I tried to adjust the front gain control, I'm getting much
more distortion... it sounds great at lower volume, but it does get
distortion on the "right side". Trebbles are OK, Mids OK too, Basses are
the problem.

Is this normal? That the rear speakers are not getting distortion even
though they are of lower power?

Any specific suggestion on how to adjust my amp or this is just normal?

I'd appreciate your help. Tanks in advance.

Are you sure that the problem isn't with the right front speaker?

Mark Zarella wrote:

[...]

Are you sure that the problem isn't with the right front speaker?

............Sure?!?! No... I can check this afternoon though.

WHY!???


Thanks,

MO

Are you sure that the problem isn't with the right front speaker?

...........Sure?!?! No... I can check this afternoon though.

WHY!???

You said you were getting distortion out of the right side. You should
first try to determine if that distortion is the speaker (either through a
faulty speaker or an installation issue), the amplifier, or the source.
Check the speaker first. If accessible, try switching the right and left
speaker wires at the amp and see if the distortion remains on the right or
moves to the left.

Mark Zarella wrote:

[...]
You said you were getting distortion out of the right side. You should
first try to determine if that distortion is the speaker (either through a
faulty speaker or an installation issue), the amplifier, or the source.
Check the speaker first. If accessible, try switching the right and left
speaker wires at the amp and see if the distortion remains on the right or
moves to the left.

So sorry! I meant the "right side" of the volumen control; at a higher
volume.

Then....?


Thanks again,

MO

You said you were getting distortion out of the right side. You should
first try to determine if that distortion is the speaker (either through
a
faulty speaker or an installation issue), the amplifier, or the source.
Check the speaker first. If accessible, try switching the right and
left
speaker wires at the amp and see if the distortion remains on the right
or
moves to the left.

So sorry! I meant the "right side" of the volumen control; at a higher
volume.

Then....?

Ah, I see. The distortion is either coming from the amplifier (amplifier
clipping) or the source (ie. source is clipping - increase amp gains, lower
head unit volume). Do you have 2- or 4-channel input to the amp from the
head unit? In other words, does your fader work? If you're using only
2-channels, the disparity between the distortion in the rear and in the
front could be a result of the speakers and their installation themselves.
For instance, you can probably hear finer detail in the front than in the
rear. If you're using 4-channels, it could be something about the source
that's the problem.

It's hard to tell the source of the distortion without actually hearing
it...

Mark Zarella wrote:

[...]

Ah, I see. The distortion is either coming from the amplifier (amplifier
clipping) or the source (ie. source is clipping - increase amp gains, lower
head unit volume). Do you have 2- or 4-channel input to the amp from the
head unit? In other words, does your fader work? If you're using only
2-channels, the disparity between the distortion in the rear and in the
front could be a result of the speakers and their installation themselves.
For instance, you can probably hear finer detail in the front than in the
rear. If you're using 4-channels, it could be something about the source
that's the problem.

It's hard to tell the source of the distortion without actually hearing
it...

4-channel, fader does work. I might need to check the source I guess.....

One more question, would it be normal to have gain level for channel with
the lower power speakers at a higher level than the one for channel with
the higher power speakers??


Cheers,

MO

It's hard to tell the source of the distortion without actually hearing
it...

4-channel, fader does work. I might need to check the source I guess.....

The best test would be to just swap the front and rear RCAs into the amp.

One more question, would it be normal to have gain level for channel with
the lower power speakers at a higher level than the one for channel with
the higher power speakers??

It can be. But that also could have something to do with different signals
coming from the front and rear source, if that turns out to be the culprit
for whatever reason.

Mark Zarella wrote:

[...]

The best test would be to just swap the front and rear RCAs into the amp.

Thanks man! you've illuminated this sleepy brain ;-)


[...]

It can be. But that also could have something to do with different signals
coming from the front and rear source, if that turns out to be the culprit
for whatever reason.

I guess I'll be playing with the sound system over the weekend.


Cheers,

MO

Just wanted to share my experience in case you find no solution with the
source. I had a set of Kicker components in the front of my old car and I
had the exact same problem you seem to be having with balancing the amp
output. In my case it was the fault of the Kicker components. Mine were
rated at 40 wrms also and I was using a 40w/4 amp. The components had a poor
sensitivity spec and I lost my front stage with only moderate power to the
rear. To solve my problem I installed a 150w/2 amp for the front and drove
it to full power. I was frustrated with the poor output of the Kickers and
didn't care if they blew. My problem was solved and the Kickers still work
(8 years later). Note though, I added a 150Hz HP active filter to keep them
within their excursion limits. Bass notes at this power level would have
caused mechanical damage no doubt.

Like me, your problem might be an unbalanced output between your front and
rear speakers. I needed more power up front to make me happy, but you may be
happy with simply lowering the power in the back and living with lower
output all around. Most music program material is such that an amplifier
driven to near-clipping will not have an average power output anywhere near
it's maximum capability. That is why my Kickers survived, the average power
dissipated was not higher than 40 watts.

Do you have a high-pass filter inline with your component set? It's also
possible you are reaching their excursion limit. You say bass is the problem
so you might do well to remove some from the front. Good luck with your
troubleshooting on the weekend :-)

Kevin Murray



"Matias Orchard" wrote in message
news
Mark Zarella wrote:

[...]

The best test would be to just swap the front and rear RCAs into the
amp.

Thanks man! you've illuminated this sleepy brain ;-)


[...]

It can be. But that also could have something to do with different
signals
coming from the front and rear source, if that turns out to be the
culprit
for whatever reason.

I guess I'll be playing with the sound system over the weekend.


Cheers,

MO

Hey Kevin,

Thanks much! It is good to hear that I'm not the only one ;-)

About your questions... I do have a High Pass Filter within the amp, and
I've tried removing some bass from the front, thing is I don't need to do
that with the lower power coaxials in the back..... that's most of the
"questioning"... any idea?

Well, we'll see!


Cheers,

MO

Kevin Murray wrote:

Just wanted to share my experience in case you find no solution with the
source. I had a set of Kicker components in the front of my old car and I
had the exact same problem you seem to be having with balancing the amp
output. In my case it was the fault of the Kicker components. Mine were
rated at 40 wrms also and I was using a 40w/4 amp. The components had a poor
sensitivity spec and I lost my front stage with only moderate power to the
rear. To solve my problem I installed a 150w/2 amp for the front and drove
it to full power. I was frustrated with the poor output of the Kickers and
didn't care if they blew. My problem was solved and the Kickers still work
(8 years later). Note though, I added a 150Hz HP active filter to keep them
within their excursion limits. Bass notes at this power level would have
caused mechanical damage no doubt.

Like me, your problem might be an unbalanced output between your front and
rear speakers. I needed more power up front to make me happy, but you may be
happy with simply lowering the power in the back and living with lower
output all around. Most music program material is such that an amplifier
driven to near-clipping will not have an average power output anywhere near
it's maximum capability. That is why my Kickers survived, the average power
dissipated was not higher than 40 watts.

Do you have a high-pass filter inline with your component set? It's also
possible you are reaching their excursion limit. You say bass is the problem
so you might do well to remove some from the front. Good luck with your
troubleshooting on the weekend :-)

Kevin Murray

[...]

Hi Guys,

I'm back. Didn't have much luck over the weekend unplugging and plugging
back RCAs cables... at least I've confirmed that is not the source (I
guess!). I swapped front and rear inputs to the amplifier and result was
_almost_ the same - you can't never say for sure ;-)

If you had to choose between these two, which one would you choose:

1) HPF set so less bass get to the speakers; consequently, gain control
can go upper.
2) HPF set to full range, and gain control set at lower level.

Or you think it is going to be just a matter of "sound taste"??

One more question, and I kind of believe it might be important!, is the
spacers (that I'm using withint the front doors of my Impreza)
construction going to influence sound quality in any way??? It _might_ be
that a little vibration could be causing the "bass trouble". Any ideas???

I'd appreciate you help once again.


Cheers,

MO


Matias Orchard wrote:

Hey Kevin,

Thanks much! It is good to hear that I'm not the only one ;-)

About your questions... I do have a High Pass Filter within the amp, and
I've tried removing some bass from the front, thing is I don't need to do
that with the lower power coaxials in the back..... that's most of the
"questioning"... any idea?

Well, we'll see!


Cheers,

MO

Kevin Murray wrote:

Just wanted to share my experience in case you find no solution with the
source. I had a set of Kicker components in the front of my old car and I
had the exact same problem you seem to be having with balancing the amp
output. In my case it was the fault of the Kicker components. Mine were
rated at 40 wrms also and I was using a 40w/4 amp. The components had a
poor
sensitivity spec and I lost my front stage with only moderate power to the
rear. To solve my problem I installed a 150w/2 amp for the front and drove
it to full power. I was frustrated with the poor output of the Kickers and
didn't care if they blew. My problem was solved and the Kickers still work
(8 years later). Note though, I added a 150Hz HP active filter to keep them
within their excursion limits. Bass notes at this power level would have
caused mechanical damage no doubt.

Like me, your problem might be an unbalanced output between your front and
rear speakers. I needed more power up front to make me happy, but you may
be
happy with simply lowering the power in the back and living with lower
output all around. Most music program material is such that an amplifier
driven to near-clipping will not have an average power output anywhere near
it's maximum capability. That is why my Kickers survived, the average power
dissipated was not higher than 40 watts.

Do you have a high-pass filter inline with your component set? It's also
possible you are reaching their excursion limit. You say bass is the
problem
so you might do well to remove some from the front. Good luck with your
troubleshooting on the weekend :-)

Kevin Murray

[...]