[ChrisCoaster]

Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they
pertain to CDs/music.

But this thought just hit me while I was vacuuming(!): Could the same
thing potentially happen to MOVIES?

And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out
to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of
that one, has this . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Loudness.png
.. . been done to the audio??

Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain
to Cinema/Home Video.

-ChrisCoaster

[Mxsmanic]

ChrisCoaster writes:

Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they
pertain to CDs/music.

I'm not sure what it is. Do you have a URL or something that points to a page
that explains it? I assume it has something to do with increasing loudness in
audio and video material? The image you linked implies that you're talking
about cranking everything to within 0.1 dB of peak (?).

[Frank Stearns]

ChrisCoaster writes:

Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they
pertain to CDs/music.

But this thought just hit me while I was vacuuming(!): Could the same
thing potentially happen to MOVIES?

And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out
to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of
that one, has this . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Jackson-Black_
or_White_Loudness.png/305px-Michael_Jackson-Black_or_White_Loudness.png
. . been done to the audio??

Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain
to Cinema/Home Video.

Yes, that does indeed look like cinderblock city...

But seems like sometimes it's the loudness wars inside out -- an extreme (and
unnatural) dynamic range... things like dialog at a normal 60-65 dB, followed by,
say, sound fx for fight scenes where skin-on-skin contact is mic'd in the foley
pit at one inch, then pumped up to 110 dB for the mix. If that were the real
level at 20 feet, a single punch would destroy the receipient (and probably the
puncher's hand).

Other exaggerations occur as well for all sorts of silly things, many of them
unexpected. (Who needs a 105 dB car door slam?)

Of course, one can do such things for dramatic effect, but when they get so over the
top that all aspects of the movie become a cartoon made by 14 year olds for 12 year
olds, well....

Of course if there's no story, poor acting, and mediocre directing, whatcha gonna do
but paint the cowpie with whatever mismatched colors you have on hand? w

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Phil W[_3_]]

Mxsmanic" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
ChrisCoaster writes:

Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they
pertain to CDs/music.

I'm not sure what it is. Do you have a URL or something that points to a
page
that explains it? I assume it has something to do with increasing loudness
in
audio and video material? The image you linked implies that you're talking
about cranking everything to within 0.1 dB of peak (?).

Try a search with Google or any other web search site. Another option would
be the "archive" of this group on Google groups.

For a start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
http://turnmeup.org
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com

[Marc Wielage[_2_]]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:38:52 -0800, wrote
(in article ):

Yes, the loudness wars are happening in the movies too. Particularly in
home video, such as on blu-ray. In some cases people seek out older DVDs
and even laserdisks where, for certain movies, the soundtrack actually has
more dynamic range.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

Actually, I think more dynamic range is a bad idea for home video mixes.
Because most average living rooms are much noisier (and smaller) than an
average commercial theater, it's a problem if there's 50 or 60dB dynamic
range from the softest dialog scene in the picture and the loudest peak. Too
often with home video releases, I crank up the levels to hear the quiet
passages, then get blown out of the room with a sudden explosion or musical
crescendo.

This is not a problem with 90% of the new TV network series I see on the air.
But a much bigger problem with Blu-rays. I'm not asking for massive
peak-limiting and brick-wall compression; just a little less dynamic range.

--MFW

[William Sommerwerck]

"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
.com...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:38:52 -0800,
wrote
(in article ):

Yes, the loudness wars are happening in the movies too. Particularly
in home video, such as on Blu-ray. In some cases people seek out
older DVDs and even Laserdisks where, for certain movies, the
soundtrack actually has more dynamic range.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

Actually, I think more dynamic range is a bad idea for home video mixes.
Because most average living rooms are much noisier (and smaller) than an
average commercial theater, it's a problem if there's 50 or 60dB dynamic
range from the softest dialog scene in the picture and the loudest peak.
Too often with home video releases, I crank up the levels to hear the
quiet
passages, then get blown out of the room with a sudden explosion or
musical crescendo.

This is not a problem with 90% of the new TV network series I see on the
air. But a much bigger problem with Blu-rays. I'm not asking for massive
peak-limiting and brick-wall compression; just a little less dynamic
range.

50dB is a huge dynamic range. Even 20dB seems fairly wide to most
listeners -- this one included. (If your controller has a level display, you
can get a good idea of just how wide 20dB is.)

I can't think of any film that "blows me out of the room". If I have any
trouble, it's with the LFE level, which in my system, was consistently about
12dB too high. I had to recalibrate the channel gains accordingly.

By the way, "crescendo" means "getting louder" -- not necessarily reaching a
peak.

[Carey Carlan]

ChrisCoaster wrote in
:

Most of us on here should know what the "loudness wars" are as they
pertain to CDs/music.

But this thought just hit me while I was vacuuming(!): Could the same
thing potentially happen to MOVIES?

And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out
to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of
that one, has this . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Michael_Jacks
o
n-Black_or_White_Loudness.png/305px-Michael_Jackson-
Black_or_White_Loud
ness.png . . been done to the audio??

Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain
to Cinema/Home Video.

-ChrisCoaster

The music loudness wars are caused by competition on radio. Each song
is trying to be louder than the next to be noticed by the listener.

There is no corollary in theatrical videos--unless you consider the
movie houses competing to see who can deafen their clientele first.

By the time it reaches your home cinema, you've already bought or rented
it. What advantage is there to the producer to squash sound there?

[[email protected]]

Carey Carlan wrote:
: By the time it reaches your home cinema, you've already bought or rented
: it. What advantage is there to the producer to squash sound there?

So that the video sounds best on the average system. There are far more
customers with average systems than there are customers with excellent
systems. So if you have an excellent system, it can be frustrating when
the audio has been squashed to sound optimal on earbuds.

[Scott Dorsey]

ChrisCoaster wrote:

And I'm not just talking about in theaters. I.E.: When one goes out
to buy the "Special Edition" of this film or the "Collectors Set" of
that one, has this . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Loudness.png
. . been done to the audio??

Let's talk about the loudness war and if its harmful effects partain
to Cinema/Home Video.

Actually, it's less of an issue because there are actual standards in place
for cinema production.

Now... not everybody follows them. But there are actual standards for
dialogue levels and everything else tracks along with the dialogue levels
for most films.

SMPTE actually promotes real standards and the use of them. Wish the RIAA
still did that....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[ChrisCoaster]

On Jan 15, 11:57*pm, wrote:
Carey Carlan wrote:

: By the time it reaches your home cinema, you've already bought or rented
: it. *What advantage is there to the producer to squash sound there?

So that the video sounds best on the average system. *There are far more
customers with average systems than there are customers with excellent
systems. *So if you have an excellent system, it can be frustrating when
the audio has been squashed to sound optimal on earbuds.
________________________
As far as I'm concerned they'd better NOT squash the audio side of my
DVDs. If I want to do that I can buy a DVD player or AVR with "Night
mode" on it! In fact my older JVC DVD/VHS combo has a range setting
on it - normal or narrow. Problem solved.

-CC