[Phil Allison]

"Arny Krueger"


Naahh, its not worth it to drop to Phildo's level. Phildo tried to force
me out of my volunteer's job at church by sending a poison pen email to
the pastor of my church. Trouble is, Phildo's over-the-top writing style
made it completely obvious that the guy who wrote it is completely
unhinged. We've had a few prayer meetings for Phildo, but it is unlikely
that we're going to help him much.


** No mere prayer meeting will get any result for Phildo's soul.

For that, you need a full séance with lotsa sulphur and incantations
directed to Satan himself.

Phildo may then appear, rising up through the floor boards, with the blood
of his child victim dripping off him.





........ Phil

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
It's already a clone of .... whoops I've forgotten. (I
even had the sales brochure at one time.)

Do try to remember. I'm curious.

Alesis comes to mind?


I can't see QSC wanting to copy it though, it's not
really all that good.

Why do you say that the A500 is not good?

Well it's OK I guess, but I prefer the EP1500 myself for not too much more.

MrT.

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Phildo" wrote
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message

Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet?

He claims to be a god in audio design yet cannot even fix
something as simple as that.

(1) Design work and repair work are distinct skills. They often come
together, but there's no rule saying they have to.

I have plenty of experience of repair work from the past. I learnt a fair bit of
useful practical stuff from that too which comes in useful when designing new
products. It's something I generally prefer to avoid now, at least the routine
hum-drum stuff but I continue to provide repair work as a service to the local
venue since they need someone reliable. I have however never made my living
explicitly as a repairman but rather as a technician for a couple of years early
in my career and as a designer and consultant thereafter.


(2) Graham hasn't tried and failed - he's just griping about the absence of
reasonable service tools.

Just service info really. A schematic isn't much to ask for. It's the standard
benchmark requirement for servicing work.


Do you honestly think the legendary studiomater designer
would lower himself to look at Behringer gear?

Seems to me that he already has.

Phildo is labouring under an illusion that I'm anti-Behringer. It's a fact that
I've recommended their products on a number of occasions despite my reservations
about the service issue.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message

SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.

I can't seem to spot it no matter how hard I look!

Don't you believe me ?

NO!!!!!!!!!


http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072C
P/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1106015

Where does it list the labor cost to replace SMT components?

**** OFF you pathetic troll

Graham

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.

I can't seem to spot it no matter how hard I look!

Don't you believe me ?

NO!!!!!!!!!



http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072C
P/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1106015

Where does it list the labor cost to replace SMT components?

**** OFF you pathetic troll


Now you don't even know what a troll is.
Hint, it's not someone who simply proves you are a lying dickhead.

MrT.

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

You tell me yours, I'll tell you my hourly rate.

My hourly rate (plus tax) makes the price you quoted fair and reasonable, as
I already stated.
YOUR hourly rate must be quite pathetic since *you* claim it was
unreasonable.

I claimed it was unreasonable to replace a single op-amp.

The problem with having to send it away to a COMPANY to repair it is that you
end up paying that company's overheads too (plus significant pointless P&P
charges). I've known companies whose overheads add 600% over the direct labour
cost. I doubt the repairer himself gets paid more than £10 an hour. I wouldn't
work for that.


Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger"


Naahh, its not worth it to drop to Phildo's level.
Phildo tried to force me out of my volunteer's job at
church by sending a poison pen email to the pastor of my
church. Trouble is, Phildo's over-the-top writing style
made it completely obvious that the guy who wrote it is
completely unhinged. We've had a few prayer meetings for
Phildo, but it is unlikely that we're going to help him
much.

** No mere prayer meeting will get any result for
Phildo's soul.

To date I know of far more prayer meetings than any discernable positive
change in Phildo.

For that, you need a full séance with lotsa sulphur and
incantations directed to Satan himself.

Not my style.

Phildo may then appear, rising up through the floor
boards, with the blood of his child victim dripping off
him.

Wasn't more than one child involved in that wreck where Phildo was driving?

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.

I can't seem to spot it no matter how hard I look!

Don't you believe me ?

NO!!!!!!!!!



http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072C
P/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1106015

Where does it list the labor cost to replace SMT components?

**** OFF you pathetic troll

Now you don't even know what a troll is.
Hint, it's not someone who simply proves you are a lying dickhead.

Lying about WHAT ? you MORON ?

Jeez, you're an idiot and a half.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

You tell me yours, I'll tell you my hourly rate.

My hourly rate (plus tax) makes the price you quoted
fair and reasonable, as I already stated.
YOUR hourly rate must be quite pathetic since *you*
claim it was unreasonable.

I claimed it was unreasonable to replace a single op-amp.

The problem with having to send it away to a COMPANY to
repair it is that you end up paying that company's
overheads too (plus significant pointless P&P charges).

In the case of the CX3400, it probably costs about the same to round-trip it
any distance, than it would be worth as well-used equipment.

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
You tell me yours, I'll tell you my hourly rate.

My hourly rate (plus tax) makes the price you quoted fair and
reasonable, as
I already stated.
YOUR hourly rate must be quite pathetic since *you* claim it was
unreasonable.

I claimed it was unreasonable to replace a single op-amp.

You still have NO idea if it's a single op-amp, and IF it is, the cost is
still about right for a COMMERCIAL repair facility to actually find the
fault (rather than psychic guesses), replace an SMT IC, and provide a
warranty on the repairs.


The problem with having to send it away to a COMPANY to repair it is that
you
end up paying that company's overheads too (plus significant pointless P&P
charges).

And I agreed all along that service information *should* be available.


I've known companies whose overheads add 600% over the direct labour
cost. I doubt the repairer himself gets paid more than £10 an hour. I
wouldn't
work for that.

You will be if you fix it yourself :-)

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

It's already a clone of .... whoops I've forgotten. (I
even had the sales brochure at one time.)

Do try to remember. I'm curious.

Alesis comes to mind?

Agreed - sort of.

Alesis RA 500 looked similar, but was far more costly. Seems to have been
dropped.

Alesis RA 300 priced higher, looks similar, but lower powered and seems to
lack the extensive LED metering.

Alesis RA 150 priced the same, looks similar, but far lower powered and
seems to lack the extensive LED metering.

I can't see QSC wanting to copy it though, it's not
really all that good.

Why do you say that the A500 is not good?

Well it's OK I guess, but I prefer the EP1500 myself for
not too much more.

I like the A-500's

No fan

Multiple consumer and pro I/O connections

Power lever is just right for smaller rooms, but not enough to really hurt
people or break things.

Light and small.

But you're right - the appearance and general feel looks like someone was
targeting the Alesis second-gen RA series.

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
Lying about WHAT ? you MORON ?

That you included labor costs when you didn't!
Try Google if you've forgotten already!!!!!!!!!

Jeez, you're an idiot and a half.

Still looking in the mirror then.

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Alesis comes to mind?

Agreed - sort of.

Alesis RA 500 looked similar, but was far more costly. Seems to have been
dropped.

Ah that was it. Yes more expensive of course, but otherwise identical as I
recall.


Well it's OK I guess, but I prefer the EP1500 myself for
not too much more.

I like the A-500's

No fan

Run the EP1500 at the lower power level into 8 ohm loads and you can switch
the fan off or reduce it's speed.


Multiple consumer and pro I/O connections

Power lever is just right for smaller rooms, but not enough to really hurt
people or break things.

Light and small.

All fair enough resons if it suits your requirements.


But you're right - the appearance and general feel looks like someone was
targeting the Alesis second-gen RA series.

I'm pretty sure it's closer than you seem to think.
Maybe time to check with Alesis for a schematic? :-)

MrT.

Shame too, as I am a big Behringer supporter otherwise, however there is
NO
WAY I would condone such *pathetic* excuses for with-holding service
information.


behringer is very generous with the warrentte often repairing equipment well
beyond its"use by" date
along with a no questions asked exchange of warrentte fails
the efforts behringer is putting into being a world class customer service
company are paying off
you should not be so cynical
I am sorry for all the company you have had less than stellar experiances
with
if you need access to anyone at behringer , just ask

that said they make some great units and some real crap
the ddx3216 is a amazing mixer, the deq/dcx iis worth 10x what you pay for
them
the analouge eq's are about as bad a unit as the alesis are
I would need a hazmat team to deal with them if I was to discard them

as for holding thier diagrams and such close to home
if that is such a big deal in some one world, buy something else
every company has the right to decide thier own policies and proceedures

one can not rightfully find fault
simply take your business elsewhere
george

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
You tell me yours, I'll tell you my hourly rate.

My hourly rate (plus tax) makes the price you quoted fair and
reasonable, as
I already stated.
YOUR hourly rate must be quite pathetic since *you* claim it was
unreasonable.

I claimed it was unreasonable to replace a single op-amp.

You still have NO idea if it's a single op-amp, and IF it is, the cost is
still about right for a COMMERCIAL repair facility to actually find the
fault (rather than psychic guesses), replace an SMT IC, and provide a
warranty on the repairs.


The problem with having to send it away to a COMPANY to repair it is that
you
end up paying that company's overheads too (plus significant pointless
P&P
charges).


call behringer they will "most likely" send you a box and pay shipping both
ways. I know thios from experiance

they are a world class customer service organization
george

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the
price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact.

I can't seem to spot it no matter how hard I look!

Don't you believe me ?

NO!!!!!!!!!



http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072C
P/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1106015

Where does it list the labor cost to replace SMT components?

**** OFF you pathetic troll


Now you don't even know what a troll is.
Hint, it's not someone who simply proves you are a lying dickhead.

MrT.

actually Mr. T you have been pretty much balanced and polite in this thread
I have no idea who you are but you make your point without a'lot" of ego or
vendetta, unlike some posters here

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger wrote:

The point is that replacing SMT parts can be a very non-trivial task,
compared to replacing an ordinary leaded part.

Not really. Go to www.chipquik.com and get a sample. With a $100 temperature
controlled iron and a $20 solder sucker and a roll of chipquik you can even
do those hundred-pin SMT parts, in the field, with little more effort than
working on DIPs. A headworn magnifier is recommended, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:20:02 -0400, Phil Allison wrote
(in article ):

"Ty Ford"

Hey Phil,


** Never "hey" me - you pile of sub haman

ASD ****ed, top posting CRIMINAL DUNG !!!!!!!


Do the whole planet a favour, top yourself now.




....... Phil


Hey Phil,

I'm holding up a finger for you. Guess which one?

To the group: No Phil, you are not part of the group.

I think we need to ratchet Hey Phil down a bit.

While taking a crap this morning, I had this idea of converting his banal
retorts into number. For example ****wad parrot would simply be "1."
"Criminal Dung" would be "2", etc.

Since Hey Phil apparently has a quite limited vocabulary of insults, this
wouldn't take long and would make the group a much nicer place.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Scott Dorsey]

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Oh, and I had a couple of ECM 8000s loose so much sensitivity that
I scrapped them after about 2 years.

Don't tell me that, my ECM8000 is about 2 years old. Still working I hope!
:-)

Some of them fail due to cold solder joints. Some of them fail due to
the electret going bad.

The capsules in those microphones are Ningbo copies of the Panasonic
WM-60. The current Panasonic WM-061A should fit as a replacement and
they will also be a good bit quieter than the originals.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
Narhh, its not that simple. Graham has a well-known gripe that many people
share.

What, that they cannot make money out of doing substandard repairs on
Behringer gear? You know as well as I do that is not why Eyesore is ****ed
at them though.

I don't know anybody that is being helped by Behringer's secrecy about
their schematics, not even them!

I do. Every user of Behringer gear that needs service or repair. By keeping
it to authorised Behringer service agents they can weed out the backroom
repair brigade like Mr Assillon and keep standards high.

Sorry you are so slow that most simple concept flew waaaaaay over your head
Arnold.

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
I don't like their gear.

So what? How many years did you badmouth it on AAPLS and viciouisly
attack just about every poor stiff who made the mistake of admitting

You have a very selective memory Arnold. I didn't badmouth anything, I
pointed it out for what it was. I still do.

Eyesore DID lose his job because of Behringer though.

Prove it.

Studiomaster went bust because they couldn't compete with companies like
behringer any more. Graham lost his job as a result. Is that simple enough
for you or do you need it dumbed down further to be able to comprehend it?

So do you still claim that 95% of professional mixing desks do not have PFL
metering? A yes or no will do fine Arnold.

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Phildo wrote:

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote
"Eeyore" wrote

So YOU work for nothing then?

He has to. He lost his job because of Behringer

Untrue.

hence his constant bitching about them.

You'll be losing YOUR job if you maintain your crackhead
libellous posts.

Your lawyers not come through for you then? Such a shame and after you
promised so faithfully that I would be hearing from them.

I've been tempted before to complain to your employer and
maybe now it's the time.

Go for it ****wit. Do you enjoy being laughed at?

Naahh, its not worth it to drop to Phildo's level. Phildo tried to force
me out of my volunteer's job at church by sending a poison pen email to
the pastor of my church. Trouble is, Phildo's over-the-top writing style
made it completely obvious that the guy who wrote it is completely
unhinged. We've had a few prayer meetings for Phildo, but it is unlikely
that we're going to help him much.

While you would like everyone to believe that Arnold, I was not the only one
who had to resort to writing to your pastor about your lunatic behaviour and
disruption of this newsgroup. How do you explain that away?

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
** No mere prayer meeting will get any result for
Phildo's soul.

To date I know of far more prayer meetings than any discernable positive
change in Phildo.

That is because the god you are praying to doesn't exist and my sould
doesn't need help.

Phildo may then appear, rising up through the floor
boards, with the blood of his child victim dripping off
him.

Wasn't more than one child involved in that wreck where Phildo was
driving?

No Arnold, just the one. The same amount of children you've had kill
themselves because of the shame of having you as a father (or maybe the
abuse you put him through). Still, several more still to go or maybe your
grandkids will follow in his footsteps if you abuse them as well.

Phildo

[hank alrich]

Eeyore wrote:

Thread title is self-explanatory.

The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
obtaining a schematic is a problem.

I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if they
have one. Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the packaging long
ago thrown away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the
country.

Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.

That runs directly counter to my own experience with Behringer support.

Have you contacted Jim Savery's office?

Jim Savery
Global Customer Support Manager
BEHRINGER The Americas
BEHRINGER USA, Inc
Tel: +01-425-672-0816 x 111
Direct Dial: +01-425-939-3216
Fax: +01-425-673-7647
IP Phone Ext: 5024

http://www.behringer.com

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
BTW Phildo, aren't you about ready to fall off your
meds, and write another poison pen letter about me to
the pastor of the church where I serve?

No need Arny. There are people in your church who are
watching you very closely and taking careful notes.

Oh yes Phildo, and they are flying around in black helicopters! ;-)

Sorry Arny, they never mentioned what vehicles they drive.

Let's just say moves are afoot to show you up for what you
really are.

Maybe the'll string me up this Saturday when I video the youth pastor's
ordination ceremony?

I think I can speak for everyone here (except maybe Assillon and Eyesore who
share your lack of sanity) when I say we can only live in hope.

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Eeyore" wrote in
message
and those shpould point out the diffrences in the
powersuppy, protection,output circut designs and layouts
unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent
power section, layout,protection,and output section not
to mention diffrent physical chasssis
is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp

They're NOT different you blind lying idiot.

Graham, I don't think George is lying because you have to correctly
perceive the truth to lie about it. :-(. The whole issue would probably be
over George's head were he sober, and he compounds the problem by posting
drunk.

Nice to see the two village idiots getting on so well.

Phildo

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

Lying about WHAT ? you MORON ?

That you included labor costs when you didn't!

I never said anything about including labour costs.

Graham

[Eeyore]

hank alrich wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Thread title is self-explanatory.

The local venue's crossover has developed a fault where the LF outs are quite
distorted. I dare say it would likely be an easy fix but the difficulty of
obtaining a schematic is a problem.

I'd also phone Behringer's UK service agent for a quote if I knew if they
have one. Does anyone know who does it ? Mind you, with the packaging long
ago thrown away, it's not very practical to send it the length of the
country.

Poor service support is definitely Behringer's achilles heel.

That runs directly counter to my own experience with Behringer support.

But you're in the USA. It's different there. There is quite simply no Behringer UK
to contact for example.


Have you contacted Jim Savery's office?

Jim Savery
Global Customer Support Manager
BEHRINGER The Americas
BEHRINGER USA, Inc
Tel: +01-425-672-0816 x 111
Direct Dial: +01-425-939-3216
Fax: +01-425-673-7647
IP Phone Ext: 5024

http://www.behringer.com

He's *GLOBAL* support ?

OK, I may just do that.

Thanks, Graham

[Phildo]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how
Behringer
assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits
of
their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to
work on
without a schematic.

You *know* no such thing.

Yes I do.

Now you claim to be a Psychic as well,

He's psychotic not psychic.

Phildo

[Arny Krueger]

"Phildo" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Eeyore" wrote
in message
Phildo wrote:

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote
"Eeyore"
wrote So YOU work for nothing then?

He has to. He lost his job because of Behringer

Untrue.

hence his constant bitching about them.

You'll be losing YOUR job if you maintain your crackhead
libellous posts.

Your lawyers not come through for you then? Such a shame
and after you promised so faithfully that I would be
hearing from them.
I've been tempted before to complain to your employer
and maybe now it's the time.

Go for it ****wit. Do you enjoy being laughed at?

Naahh, its not worth it to drop to Phildo's level.
Phildo tried to force me out of my volunteer's job at
church by sending a poison pen email to the pastor of my
church. Trouble is, Phildo's over-the-top writing style
made it completely obvious that the guy who wrote it is
completely unhinged. We've had a few prayer meetings for
Phildo, but it is unlikely that we're going to help him
much.

While you would like everyone to believe that Arnold, I
was not the only one who had to resort to writing to your
pastor about your lunatic behaviour and disruption of
this newsgroup. How do you explain that away?

Real simple Phildo - there's a lot of weirdos posting on Usenet. I guess you
haven't noticed since you are one of them!

[Eeyore]

Phildo wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote

Narhh, its not that simple. Graham has a well-known gripe that many people
share.

What, that they cannot make money out of doing substandard repairs on
Behringer gear?

So you don't think anyone other than Behringer can perform a competent repair do
you ?

Your detachment from reality is truly remarkable.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Phildo wrote:

By keeping it to authorised Behringer service agents they can weed out the
backroom
repair brigade like Mr Assillon and keep standards high.

You mean they keep prices high and encourage ppl to junk stuff and buy again
new.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Phildo wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote

I don't like their gear.

So what? How many years did you badmouth it on AAPLS and viciouisly
attack just about every poor stiff who made the mistake of admitting

You have a very selective memory Arnold. I didn't badmouth anything, I
pointed it out for what it was. I still do.

Eyesore DID lose his job because of Behringer though.

Prove it.

Studiomaster went bust because they couldn't compete with companies like
behringer any more.

Not true. They had a dispute with their primary Asian subcontractor which meant
they were starved of product and had to shut down shop. Shutting down was a
voluntary action. It wasn't forced on them.

At the time sales were plentiful. There was something like £1 million of product
in outstanding sales. And we were both competitive on price and profitable.

Futhermore I even explained this in detail here ages back.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Phildo wrote:

Graham lost his job as a result.

Only briefly as it happens.

Graham

made it completely obvious that the guy who wrote it is completely
unhinged. We've had a few prayer meetings for Phildo, but it is unlikely
that we're going to help him much.

While you would like everyone to believe that Arnold, I was not the only
one who had to resort to writing to your pastor about your lunatic
behaviour and disruption of this newsgroup. How do you explain that away?

or the fact that within 3 days, at pro sound web, your fellow church sound
people had enough of you to banish you from thier forum , for life
your a real piece of work arnii k.
too bad we can't do the same here.
George

[Mr.T]

wrote in message
...

you should not be so cynical

Not being cynical, just stating facts. Being cynical would imply there is a
VALID reason for them with-holding service information. Despite your
excuses, there is only their own self interest at heart, certainly not that
of the customers.

as for holding thier diagrams and such close to home
if that is such a big deal in some one world, buy something else
every company has the right to decide thier own policies and proceedures
one can not rightfully find fault
simply take your business elsewhere

Contradiction alert! IF you could not find fault, you wouldn't need to take
your business elsewhere.
As I already stated, I find the cheap Behringer equipment good value, simply
because it is disposable, NOT because of their crappy customer (non) support
policies.

Maybe instead of making excuses, Behringer should listen to what their
customers are saying?

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Phildo" wrote in message
...
I don't know anybody that is being helped by Behringer's secrecy about
their schematics, not even them!

I do. Every user of Behringer gear that needs service or repair. By
keeping
it to authorised Behringer service agents they can weed out the backroom
repair brigade like Mr Assillon and keep standards high.

The simple fact is that Behringer are happy that most equipment is thrown
away rather than repaired, even if the repair is within the capabilities of
the owner to fix.

As I said before, it's amazing that the cheapest stuff on the market thinks
they need to "weed out the backroom repair brigade", when the players at
quality end feel no such need. :-)

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Phildo" wrote in message
...
So do you still claim that 95% of professional mixing desks do not have
PFL
metering? A yes or no will do fine Arnold.

Many Yamaha desks do not unfortunately!
I guess it depends on who is defining "professional mixing desks" :-)

MrT.

[Mr.T]

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
I never said anything about including labour costs.

Nor about not being able to read, remember what you wrote, or use Google
when you can't.

MrT.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

you should not be so cynical

Not being cynical, just stating facts. Being cynical would imply there is
a
VALID reason for them with-holding service information. Despite your
excuses, there is only their own self interest at heart, certainly not
that
of the customers.

as for holding thier diagrams and such close to home
if that is such a big deal in some one world, buy something else
every company has the right to decide thier own policies and proceedures
one can not rightfully find fault
simply take your business elsewhere

Contradiction alert! IF you could not find fault, you wouldn't need to
take
your business elsewhere.
As I already stated, I find the cheap Behringer equipment good value,
simply
because it is disposable, NOT because of their crappy customer (non)
support
policies.

Maybe instead of making excuses, Behringer should listen to what their
customers are saying?

MrT.


sorry Mr. t
thier customers are saying give us really low cost kit
one of the ways is to limit distribution on technical materials
it keeps te price down
FAR more pf thier customers are happy with te way things are
it would be foolish to go against the millions of satisifed users to cater
to a few wildcat techs who want to play inside gear that is designed for
mass production, not small back room solder jockey benches

if the eyesores of tis world are so interested in fixing 100 dollar
processors
let them become authorized

thier warrentee is excellent
thier customer service is worldclass
they and I see no need for every kid with a soldering pencil and more free
time than brains to have access to tis information
there is a excellent service network in place
simply use it.
george