Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of
this unit? Richard |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
(Rhgoo7) wrote:
Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Stewart Pinkerton wrote: Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. How did the MF *sound*, Stewart? Give us a description. Regards, Mike |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. Alan |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
On 29 Jan 2004 16:11:27 GMT, "Alan Murphy"
wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. But it's *not* reclocked, which is why it's of necessity inferior. Check jitter results for even a cheap Sony player against these so-called 'high end' DACs. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 29 Jan 2004 16:11:27 GMT, "Alan Murphy" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. But it's *not* reclocked, which is why it's of necessity inferior. Check jitter results for even a cheap Sony player against these so-called 'high end' DACs. Stewart, what do you make of the technical results of comparing one-box vs separates in this paper, where Dunn et al conclude that disc- or player-related sampling jitter is NOT the cause of the distortion observed in their measurements of one-box players? http://www.prismsound.com/downloads/cdinvest.pdf -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
On 29 Jan 2004 20:29:55 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 29 Jan 2004 16:11:27 GMT, "Alan Murphy" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. But it's *not* reclocked, which is why it's of necessity inferior. Check jitter results for even a cheap Sony player against these so-called 'high end' DACs. Stewart, what do you make of the technical results of comparing one-box vs separates in this paper, where Dunn et al conclude that disc- or player-related sampling jitter is NOT the cause of the distortion observed in their measurements of one-box players? http://www.prismsound.com/downloads/cdinvest.pdf I don't see anything relevant there, and as it happens, I was one of the 'postal votes'. Note that there is well-documented evidence of significantly lower jitter in one-box players from many years of Paul Miller's technical tests in HFN. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 29 Jan 2004 20:29:55 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 29 Jan 2004 16:11:27 GMT, "Alan Murphy" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. But it's *not* reclocked, which is why it's of necessity inferior. Check jitter results for even a cheap Sony player against these so-called 'high end' DACs. Stewart, what do you make of the technical results of comparing one-box vs separates in this paper, where Dunn et al conclude that disc- or player-related sampling jitter is NOT the cause of the distortion observed in their measurements of one-box players? http://www.prismsound.com/downloads/cdinvest.pdf I don't see anything relevant there, and as it happens, I was one of the 'postal votes'. Note that there is well-documented evidence of significantly lower jitter in one-box players from many years of Paul Miller's technical tests in HFN. But Dennis et al. seem to find that jitter isn't the culprit of the spuriae they measured specifically in one-box players; they attribute that to 'amplitude modulation of the analog outputs by motor- and servo-related interference'. See the section 'Measurement of Spuriae' and the first few paragraphs of the Conclusion. It appears, unless I've misunderstodd the paper, that one-box systems measured consistently worse than two-box systems in their tests. The distortion is posited to be audible (see paragaph 1 of the Conclusion) though the audibility of the distortion was not directly tested. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
The only practical advantage would be if it had multiple inputs. The
reason that I offer my customers to avoid outboard DACs in favor of one box players is that even if all other things are equal you get a free transport, which is the most likely part of the system to fail. What's not to like? A DAC upgrade and a free transport. It seems pretty obvious where the advantages lie without even looking into how the sections were purpose designed to operate together. That said, I bought an on-board upgrade to my Bryston BP25 preamp (BP25DA), which is a DAC installed where the phono board might go. I have their excellent external phono stage (BP1.5) and had the space. What I gained by doing that was the ability to plug-in whatever DVD player I liked and also have a second digital input available for Satellite TV or Digital Cable Radio or whatever digital medium that I fancy next. It also takes-up no space being on-board. (ok I can't wait to hear the physics gurus tell me how it does take-up space...). The reason that I bought the upgrade was to take advantage of the additional input and the fact that I already had a nice DVD player with low hours. - Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 "Alan Murphy" wrote in message ... "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. Alan |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
news:3edSb.180973$xy6.868660@attbi_s02... On 29 Jan 2004 16:11:27 GMT, "Alan Murphy" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. But it's *not* reclocked, which is why it's of necessity inferior. Check jitter results for even a cheap Sony player against these so-called 'high end' DACs. Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering I understood that Meridian dacs buffer the incoming digital data stream and reclock the anologue output using an internal clock. This is possible because the timing is implicit in the digital data. Provided it buffers the incoming data a dac has all the information necessary to output a jitterless anologue output stream. Alan |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
On 30 Jan 2004 01:46:58 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 29 Jan 2004 20:29:55 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: Stewart, what do you make of the technical results of comparing one-box vs separates in this paper, where Dunn et al conclude that disc- or player-related sampling jitter is NOT the cause of the distortion observed in their measurements of one-box players? http://www.prismsound.com/downloads/cdinvest.pdf I don't see anything relevant there, and as it happens, I was one of the 'postal votes'. Note that there is well-documented evidence of significantly lower jitter in one-box players from many years of Paul Miller's technical tests in HFN. But Dennis et al. seem to find that jitter isn't the culprit of the spuriae they measured specifically in one-box players; they attribute that to 'amplitude modulation of the analog outputs by motor- and servo-related interference'. See the section 'Measurement of Spuriae' and the first few paragraphs of the Conclusion. It appears, unless I've misunderstodd the paper, that one-box systems measured consistently worse than two-box systems in their tests. The distortion is posited to be audible (see paragaph 1 of the Conclusion) though the audibility of the distortion was not directly tested. OK, I see what you're getting at. Please note that this is certainly a matter of implementation, and the authors do note that it's not too difficult to address. The one-box player they used was a Marantz CD-63, and I doubt that even its most ardent fan would claim that this represents the state of the art! Compare and contrast with say the Arcam CD-23 or especially any of the Meridian players, and you'll see that this effect is essentially absent. If you recall, there was considerable discussion about the sound quality of CD-R when it came out, and it was noted that on some players, the copy sounded *better* than the original! This was traced to the 'wobble track' on the CD-R being easier for the servo circuits to track, and Martin Colloms noted that the sound degradation was exactly due to amplitude modulation from the servo circuits finding its way into the analogue output. He also discovered that better players did not demonstrate this effect. Note that Prism Sound don't make a one-box player, do make excellent jitter-reducing DACs, and seem to have extrapolated their findings on one cheap one-box player to *all* one-box players. A step too far, methinks. Anyway, I have to go now, as I'm off to India for a couple of weeks. Well timed, as it's snowing here! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
(Mkuller) wrote:
How did the MF *sound*, Stewart? Give us a description. Stewart Pinkerton wrote: Like any other reasonably competent outboard DAC. Hence, overpriced and overhyped - and using irreplaceable components. You mean you couldn't hear any difference between the NuVista tubes and other solid state DACs? That seems pretty remarkable... Regards, Mike |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
Better designed players have multiple power supplies and shielding to
prevent this. Cheaper ones do not, so it is all over the place as to how a "one box player" might be constructed or measure or sound. In a pinch, I bet even the cheapest sound better than your old tape player (pun unavoidable!). - Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 "Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ... Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 29 Jan 2004 20:29:55 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 29 Jan 2004 16:11:27 GMT, "Alan Murphy" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message news:EMURb.175034$xy6.818966@attbi_s02... On 28 Jan 2004 16:01:32 GMT, (Rhgoo7) wrote: Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC and formrd an opinion of this unit? Overpriced and overhyped - typical MF. Buy a good one-box player, ideally a 'universal' like the top Denon or Pioneer models. Why one box. Provided the output is reclocked from the dac the two box solution seems to offer a number of practical advantages. But it's *not* reclocked, which is why it's of necessity inferior. Check jitter results for even a cheap Sony player against these so-called 'high end' DACs. Stewart, what do you make of the technical results of comparing one-box vs separates in this paper, where Dunn et al conclude that disc- or player-related sampling jitter is NOT the cause of the distortion observed in their measurements of one-box players? http://www.prismsound.com/downloads/cdinvest.pdf I don't see anything relevant there, and as it happens, I was one of the 'postal votes'. Note that there is well-documented evidence of significantly lower jitter in one-box players from many years of Paul Miller's technical tests in HFN. But Dennis et al. seem to find that jitter isn't the culprit of the spuriae they measured specifically in one-box players; they attribute that to 'amplitude modulation of the analog outputs by motor- and servo-related interference'. See the section 'Measurement of Spuriae' and the first few paragraphs of the Conclusion. It appears, unless I've misunderstodd the paper, that one-box systems measured consistently worse than two-box systems in their tests. The distortion is posited to be audible (see paragaph 1 of the Conclusion) though the audibility of the distortion was not directly tested. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
"Mkuller" wrote in message
news:bhzSb.143371$Rc4.1147042@attbi_s54... (Mkuller) wrote: How did the MF *sound*, Stewart? Give us a description. Stewart Pinkerton wrote: Like any other reasonably competent outboard DAC. Hence, overpriced and overhyped - and using irreplaceable components. You mean you couldn't hear any difference between the NuVista tubes and other solid state DACs? That seems pretty remarkable... Regards, Mike Actually, mike, he never said he *listened* to it. He just disavowed it. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 30 Jan 2004 01:46:58 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: Stewart Pinkerton wrote: On 29 Jan 2004 20:29:55 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: Stewart, what do you make of the technical results of comparing one-box vs separates in this paper, where Dunn et al conclude that disc- or player-related sampling jitter is NOT the cause of the distortion observed in their measurements of one-box players? http://www.prismsound.com/downloads/cdinvest.pdf I don't see anything relevant there, and as it happens, I was one of the 'postal votes'. Note that there is well-documented evidence of significantly lower jitter in one-box players from many years of Paul Miller's technical tests in HFN. But Dennis et al. seem to find that jitter isn't the culprit of the spuriae they measured specifically in one-box players; they attribute that to 'amplitude modulation of the analog outputs by motor- and servo-related interference'. See the section 'Measurement of Spuriae' and the first few paragraphs of the Conclusion. It appears, unless I've misunderstodd the paper, that one-box systems measured consistently worse than two-box systems in their tests. The distortion is posited to be audible (see paragaph 1 of the Conclusion) though the audibility of the distortion was not directly tested. OK, I see what you're getting at. Please note that this is certainly a matter of implementation, and the authors do note that it's not too difficult to address. The one-box player they used was a Marantz CD-63, and I doubt that even its most ardent fan would claim that this represents the state of the art! Compare and contrast with say the Arcam CD-23 or especially any of the Meridian players, and you'll see that this effect is essentially absent. They measured a 'variety' of one-box players, according to the paper, and the Marantz results were considered 'typical'. It appears they tested players by Philips, Technics and Sony, though I am not clear on which were one-box. If you recall, there was considerable discussion about the sound quality of CD-R when it came out, and it was noted that on some players, the copy sounded *better* than the original! This was traced to the 'wobble track' on the CD-R being easier for the servo circuits to track, and Martin Colloms noted that the sound degradation was exactly due to amplitude modulation from the servo circuits finding its way into the analogue output. He also discovered that better players did not demonstrate this effect. Note that Prism Sound don't make a one-box player, do make excellent jitter-reducing DACs, and seem to have extrapolated their findings on one cheap one-box player to *all* one-box players. A step too far, methinks. Again, they claim to have measured several one-box players. Anyway, I have to go now, as I'm off to India for a couple of weeks. Well timed, as it's snowing here! Lucky dog! -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Musical & Political Facts | Audio Opinions | |||
Objective Testing for Audio Fidelity | High End Audio | |||
Users guide for Musical Fidelity X-A2 amplifier | High End Audio | |||
science vs vs pseudo science | High End Audio | |||
Musical Fidelity & Monitor Audio Events in Chicago, IL 7-29 & 7-30 | High End Audio |