[ST]

Hi,

My CD player offers filters which changes the playback sound
characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states that "...dampens
frequencies in the digital data stream from the Super Audio CD which
are over the 100kHz to lower the bandwidth.In addition, operations
within the D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution.". Using test tone at "normal listening" loudness I am deaf
above 14khz frequencies . So theoretically I am not suppose to hear
any difference but I do hear between filtered and unfiltered at
100khz. Why is that?

Regards.
ST

[Serge Auckland[_2_]]

"ST" wrote in message
...
Hi,

My CD player offers filters which changes the playback sound
characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states that "...dampens
frequencies in the digital data stream from the Super Audio CD which
are over the 100kHz to lower the bandwidth.In addition, operations
within the D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution.". Using test tone at "normal listening" loudness I am deaf
above 14khz frequencies . So theoretically I am not suppose to hear
any difference but I do hear between filtered and unfiltered at
100khz. Why is that?

Regards.
ST


A few possible reasons:-
1) Activating the filter changes the level by a small amount, enough to be
noticeable.
2) The filter introduces ripples further down the frequency band which
become audible.
3) The filtering introduces other circuitry which may not be wholly
transparent, although this last is less likely.
4) Unless you have done double-blind testing, it could be you.

I also wonder what does "priority given to resolution" mean. Sounds like
marketing to me.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Mar 21, 7:04*am, ST wrote:
Hi,

My CD player offers filters which changes the playback sound
characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states that "...dampens
frequencies in the digital data stream from the Super Audio CD which
are over the 100kHz to lower the bandwidth.In addition, operations
within the D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution.". Using test tone at "normal listening" loudness I am deaf
above 14khz frequencies . So theoretically I am not suppose to hear
any difference but I do hear between filtered *and unfiltered at
100khz. Why is that?


Insertion of the filter lessens the demands placed upon your
amplification system?

Regards.
ST

[[email protected]]

On Mar 21, 7:04*am, ST wrote:
Hi,

My CD player offers filters which changes the playback sound
characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states that "...dampens
frequencies in the digital data stream from the Super Audio CD which
are over the 100kHz to lower the bandwidth.In addition, operations
within the D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution.". Using test tone at "normal listening" loudness I am deaf
above 14khz frequencies . So theoretically I am not suppose to hear
any difference but I do hear between filtered *and unfiltered at
100khz. Why is that?

Regards.
ST

Perhaps your amplifier is not linear at ultrasonic frequencies and you
are hearing some intermodulation distortion.

[Arny Krueger]

"ST" wrote in message


My CD player

Please name it.

offers filters which changes the playback
sound characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states
that "...dampens frequencies in the digital data stream
from the Super Audio CD which are over the 100kHz to
lower the bandwidth.

This is strange since the defined bandwidth limit of DSD (The SACD digital
format) is 100 KHz. Most players are said to have high frequency extensions
that are only in the 80-90 KHz range.

There is a reasonable concern that some other system components used with a
SACD player (such as a SET amplifier) will have poor linearity above 20 KHz.
Complex signals above 20 Khz may intermodulate and produce audible noise and
distortion at frequencies in the normal 20-20 KHz audible range.


In addition, operations within the
D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution."

Hard to interpret without knowing the larger context.

. Using test tone at "normal listening"
loudness I am deaf above 14khz frequencies .

But nonlinear distortion in your power amplifier can cause complex signals
above 20 KHz to produce spurious responses in the normally audible frequency
range.

So theoretically I am not suppose to hear any difference but
I do hear between filtered and unfiltered at 100khz. Why
is that?

It is possible that the other components in your system have too much
intermodulation distortion. What are they?

[ST]

To all,

Equipments used to test are CD player - Marantz SA11-S2, Amplifier
either Classe or Yamaha, Speakers either Living Voice or NCA or a
custom made loudspeaker with electrostatic tweeter with frequencies
extended up to 50khz only which is basically a copycat of another well-
known brand with better parts and cabinet with some modifications. All
the combinations produce audible differences.

Regards,
ST

[Steven Sullivan]

ST wrote:
Hi,

My CD player offers filters which changes the playback sound
characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states that "...dampens
frequencies in the digital data stream from the Super Audio CD which
are over the 100kHz to lower the bandwidth.In addition, operations
within the D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution.".

All SACD players, AFAIK, have either a 50kHz or 100kHz lowpass filter
built in to them.

Using test tone at "normal listening" loudness I am deaf
above 14khz frequencies . So theoretically I am not suppose to hear
any difference but I do hear between filtered and unfiltered at
100khz. Why is that?

Imagination? Bad design? Loudspeakers/amps that distort when fed
ultrasonic content?



--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine

[[email protected]]

"Detection threshold for tones above 22 kHz"

To investigate audibility of ultrasounds contained in a complex tone,
psychoacoustic experiments were designed. Human subjects were required
to discriminate stimuli with and without components above 22 kHz. All
subjects distinguished between sounds with and without ultrasounds
only when the stimulus was presented through a single loudspeaker.
When the stimulus was divided into six bands of frequencies and
presented through 6 loudspeakers in order to reduce intermodulation
distortions, no subject could detect any ultrasounds. It was concluded
that addition of ultrasounds might affect sound impression by means of
some non-linear interaction that might occur in the loudspeakers.
Paper Number: 5401 AES Convention: 110 (May 2001)
Authors: Kiryu, Shogo; Ashihara, Kaoru

On 22 mrt, 18:53, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Imagination? Bad design? *Loudspeakers/amps that distort when fed
ultrasonic content?

[Santo_ad]

[quote=ST;862987]Hi,

My CD player offers filters which changes the playback sound
characteristic. One of the filter for SACD states that "...dampens
frequencies in the digital data stream from the Super Audio CD which
are over the 100kHz to lower the bandwidth.In addition, operations
within the D/A convertor are asymmetrical with priority given to
resolution.". Using test tone at "normal listening" loudness I am deaf
above 14khz frequencies . So theoretically I am not suppose to hear
any difference but I do hear between filtered and unfiltered at
100khz. Why is that?

Regards.
ST[/QUOTES



Theory say the frequency that we hear is 20hz to 20Khz.That is true, but remember they're no wall to block them. So the freq above and below that bandwidth still affect during the audio playback.Just remember too usually there are some filter which can caused many varian during noise shaping.And that is what we hear and can make our sound system diffrent than others