Hi all,

I have a system with a Pioneer VSX-3000 stereo receiver (a fairly
old receiver, 60Wpc) controlling decent SPL monitors in one room and
Cambridge soundwork speakers in a second room. I've
noticed that when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.

I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar problem, and
in particular whether the problem is the receiver itself, or
perhaps related to speaker wires. I'm pretty sure the
problem isn't the speakers, but I could be wrong. I've
been thinking of upgrading my receiver anyway, in which case
I would find out my answer through simple experimentation,
but I was curious if this was a common problem.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best,

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

On 22 Jan 2006 21:40:20 GMT, Mark Glickman wrote:

Hi all,

I have a system with a Pioneer VSX-3000 stereo receiver (a fairly
old receiver, 60Wpc) controlling decent SPL monitors in one room and
Cambridge soundwork speakers in a second room. I've
noticed that when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.

I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar problem, and
in particular whether the problem is the receiver itself, or
perhaps related to speaker wires. I'm pretty sure the
problem isn't the speakers, but I could be wrong. I've
been thinking of upgrading my receiver anyway, in which case
I would find out my answer through simple experimentation,
but I was curious if this was a common problem.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best,

- Mark

Almost certainly it is the volume control which is bad. Try and get
some electrical lubricant inside it, or at worst get it replaced.

Does it improve temporarily if you wind it quickly back and forth
several times?

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In rec.audio.tech Don Pearce wrote:
: Almost certainly it is the volume control which is bad. Try and get
: some electrical lubricant inside it, or at worst get it replaced.

: Does it improve temporarily if you wind it quickly back and forth
: several times?

Thanks for the suggestion, though the volume control consists
of two clickable buttons on the unit, one increasing volume and the
other decreasing the volume. Usually I control the volume
from a remote. In any case, the volume is not a dial/knob control.
Sorry this wasn't clearer in my first post...

Any other thoughts would be appreciated!

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

"Mark Glickman" wrote in message
...
In rec.audio.tech Don Pearce wrote:
: Almost certainly it is the volume control which is bad. Try and get
: some electrical lubricant inside it, or at worst get it replaced.

: Does it improve temporarily if you wind it quickly back and forth
: several times?

Thanks for the suggestion, though the volume control consists
of two clickable buttons on the unit, one increasing volume and the
other decreasing the volume. Usually I control the volume
from a remote. In any case, the volume is not a dial/knob control.
Sorry this wasn't clearer in my first post...

Any other thoughts would be appreciated!

Speaker voice-coils stuffed and rubbing on magnets. Needs a bit of ooomph
before they move at all. Do they sound crappy when they do work ?

geoff

In rec.audio.tech Geoff@home wrote:

: Speaker voice-coils stuffed and rubbing on magnets. Needs a bit of ooomph
: before they move at all. Do they sound crappy when they do work ?

When the speakers are working, they sound fine. Given that
I get the same behavior with two different sets of speakers,
my inference is that the speakers are probably not the
problem. I should point out that *sometimes* the speakers
work fine at low volumes, but it's hit or miss.

Thanks for the suggestion.

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

"Mark Glickman" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I have a system with a Pioneer VSX-3000 stereo receiver (a fairly
old receiver, 60Wpc) controlling decent SPL monitors in one room and
Cambridge soundwork speakers in a second room. I've
noticed that when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.

Sounds like a dodgy connection or almost-broken wire somewhere. I'd start at
the computer end, move the wires and connections around a bit until you find
something that affects the sound... you'll probably break whatever it is in
the process but at least you'll know what to replace!

Rich Wilson wrote:

"Mark Glickman" wrote in message

... when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.


Sounds like a dodgy connection or almost-broken wire somewhere. I'd start at
the computer end, move the wires and connections around a bit until you find
something that affects the sound... you'll probably break whatever it is in
the process but at least you'll know what to replace!

Agreed. Sounds like a bad connection somewhere in the path.


// Walt

"Mark Glickman" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I have a system with a Pioneer VSX-3000 stereo receiver (a fairly
old receiver, 60Wpc) controlling decent SPL monitors in one room and
Cambridge soundwork speakers in a second room. I've
noticed that when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.

I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar problem, and
in particular whether the problem is the receiver itself, or
perhaps related to speaker wires. I'm pretty sure the
problem isn't the speakers, but I could be wrong. I've
been thinking of upgrading my receiver anyway, in which case
I would find out my answer through simple experimentation,
but I was curious if this was a common problem.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best,

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

Mark,
I had an old pioneer receiver, too good to toss, not for prime home
use, so off to work it went to supply music to several areas of my shop,
intermittent audio was the problem and it was usually the speaker selector
switch, mine would supply three groups of speakers and it was usually "B"
group that went first, high contact resistance was the cause, turn up the
volume and the contacts would fuse together and work. A good cleaning and
lube would solve the problem for several months. this amp was 20 years old,
I ended up bypassing the switch altogether, it's ugly but it still works too
well to toss.
The other thing to check, is the wire to the remote speaker one
continuous piece or are there any splices in the run? it doesn't take much
resistance to be intermittent.
Hope you find your open circuit,
Dave_________

Mark,

The speaker muting relay is usually the cause of this sort of problem.
You can prove this by thumping your relay with a wooden or plastic rod.
If the relay is healthy, you can thump it almost to the point of
breaking something without audible consequences.

Replacing is the best repair, cleaning is only temporary. Or, you can
also search for one of my previous replies for this problem. I give an
unconventional way of dealing with this problem (that does not involve
opening the unit or moving it from it's present location).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

Mark Glickman wrote:

In rec.audio.tech Don Pearce wrote:
: Almost certainly it is the volume control which is bad. Try and get
: some electrical lubricant inside it, or at worst get it replaced.

: Does it improve temporarily if you wind it quickly back and forth
: several times?

Thanks for the suggestion, though the volume control consists
of two clickable buttons on the unit, one increasing volume and the
other decreasing the volume. Usually I control the volume
from a remote. In any case, the volume is not a dial/knob control.
Sorry this wasn't clearer in my first post...

Service manual time, or time for a peek inside, a motor turning a volume
control pot is a sonically good solution, so it might still be a volume
control potentiometer issue.

- Mark


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Barry Mann wrote:

The speaker muting relay is usually the cause of this sort of problem.

Nah, I have a Technics power amp with a relay issue, once it is "on" it
stays on, it just has trouble waking up if it has been sleeping for too
long. The symptoms correlate very well with a volume potentiometer
issue.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


You can prove this by thumping your relay with a wooden or plastic rod.
If the relay is healthy, you can thump it almost to the point of
breaking something without audible consequences.

Replacing is the best repair, cleaning is only temporary. Or, you can
also search for one of my previous replies for this problem. I give an
unconventional way of dealing with this problem (that does not involve
opening the unit or moving it from it's present location).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

"David Ballinger" wrote in message
news:fkXAf.11559$Dh.1823@dukeread04...

"Mark Glickman" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I have a system with a Pioneer VSX-3000 stereo receiver (a fairly
old receiver, 60Wpc) controlling decent SPL monitors in one room and
Cambridge soundwork speakers in a second room. I've
noticed that when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.

I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar problem, and
in particular whether the problem is the receiver itself, or
perhaps related to speaker wires. I'm pretty sure the
problem isn't the speakers, but I could be wrong. I've
been thinking of upgrading my receiver anyway, in which case
I would find out my answer through simple experimentation,
but I was curious if this was a common problem.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best,

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

Mark,
I had an old pioneer receiver, too good to toss, not for prime home
use, so off to work it went to supply music to several areas of my shop,
intermittent audio was the problem and it was usually the speaker selector
switch, mine would supply three groups of speakers and it was usually "B"
group that went first, high contact resistance was the cause, turn up the
volume and the contacts would fuse together and work. A good cleaning and
lube would solve the problem for several months. this amp was 20 years
old, I ended up bypassing the switch altogether, it's ugly but it still
works too well to toss.
The other thing to check, is the wire to the remote speaker one
continuous piece or are there any splices in the run? it doesn't take much
resistance to be intermittent.
Hope you find your open circuit,
Dave_________



Speaker A / B switches dirty or speaker relay cutting out. Almost certainly
one or the other.

You can try pushing, wiggling, otherwise manipulating the speaker switch(es)
and see if that affects the problem. I seem to remember the B speaker switch
many be a problem on these - if the A/B switching is series, which it may
well be.

Mark Z.

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Barry Mann wrote:

The speaker muting relay is usually the cause of this sort of problem.

Nah, I have a Technics power amp with a relay issue, once it is "on" it
stays on, it just has trouble waking up if it has been sleeping for too
long. The symptoms correlate very well with a volume potentiometer
issue.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


You can prove this by thumping your relay with a wooden or plastic rod.
If the relay is healthy, you can thump it almost to the point of
breaking something without audible consequences.

Replacing is the best repair, cleaning is only temporary. Or, you can
also search for one of my previous replies for this problem. I give an
unconventional way of dealing with this problem (that does not involve
opening the unit or moving it from it's present location).

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

You've never seen a speaker relay drop one channel or the other? May you
continue to lead a charmed existence! This is a _really_ common problem with
any type of amp / receiver using speaker output relays.

Mark Z.

Thanks to everyone for their helpful (and varied) responses.

Rich Wilson and Walt, I'll check the speaker wire. My gut
tells me, however, that it's a bit too coincidental to have
the same problems with four different wires (leading to two
pairs of speakers).

Peter Larsen - not sure what to do if the problem is related
to the volume control pontentiometer. I may need to open up
the receiver to take a look...

David Ballinger and Mark Zacharias, my bet is that you
identified the problem. I do notice that the B speakers cut
out more drastically than the A speakers. When I open up
the receiver, I'll take a look at the A/B switches and the
speaker relay. As an aside, the speaker wires are single
continuous wires - not several pieces spliced together.

Thanks again, everyone.

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

"Mark Glickman" wrote in message
...
Thanks to everyone for their helpful (and varied) responses.

Rich Wilson and Walt, I'll check the speaker wire. My gut
tells me, however, that it's a bit too coincidental to have
the same problems with four different wires (leading to two
pairs of speakers).

Yes... if the cables are completely separate it's unlikely to be that. I
think I may have got the wrong impression about exactly how your system's
set up!

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote:

You've never seen a speaker relay drop one channel or the other?

Read my post again, I mention a specific, known relay issue with the
Technics amp I use for my L100's. The inital description of his problem
differed in a way that correlates better with probable volume pot
issues, the later description - that it affects one set of loudspeaker
outputs only - DO suggeset a relay issue.

May you continue to lead a charmed existence! This is a _really_
common problem with any type of amp / receiver using speaker output
relays.

Oh yes, espeically if left unused. Preamps too. It is probably better to
select unused outputs as "on" so as to keep the relays alive than select
them as "off".

Mark Z.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote:

You've never seen a speaker relay drop one channel or the other?

Read my post again, I mention a specific, known relay issue with the
Technics amp I use for my L100's. The inital description of his problem
differed in a way that correlates better with probable volume pot
issues, the later description - that it affects one set of loudspeaker
outputs only - DO suggeset a relay issue.



The sound dropping out at low volume _really_ suggests a relay or speaker
switch problem. This was referred to in the OP's first post. Later he said
that it was more pronounced on the B speaker set, which of course seems to
lead back to the speaker switches themselves.


Mark Z.

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote:

The sound dropping out at low volume _really_ suggests
a relay or speaker switch problem.

Why only that? - I have an old mixer where it happens if the some of the
gain pots are in the lowermost quarter of their movement because all it
has ever done is rock and roll on the road. Not a relay issue in that
context because there aren't any.

Mark, it is OK with me that you say there are alternatative
possibilities, but i have read you to say that my observed equipment
malfunctions do not apply. On the initally reported symptoms it can be
either in which case more information is required.

This was referred to in the OP's first post. Later he said
that it was more pronounced on the B speaker set, which of
course seems to lead back to the speaker switches themselves.

Yes.

Mark Z.


Kind regatds

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote:

The sound dropping out at low volume _really_ suggests
a relay or speaker switch problem.

Why only that? - I have an old mixer where it happens if the some of the
gain pots are in the lowermost quarter of their movement because all it
has ever done is rock and roll on the road. Not a relay issue in that
context because there aren't any.

Mark, it is OK with me that you say there are alternatative
possibilities, but i have read you to say that my observed equipment
malfunctions do not apply. On the initally reported symptoms it can be
either in which case more information is required.

That was certainly not my intention. I was just thinking of the classic
case - and I'm pretty sure you've seen it too - of a relay, switch or other
connection being "goosed" into working at least temporarily, when the volume
is increased.

snip


Mark Z.

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote:

That was certainly not my intention.

Thank you.

I was just thinking of the classic case - and I'm pretty sure
you've seen it too - of a relay, switch or other connection
being "goosed" into working at least temporarily, when the volume
is increased.

It is the same issue, the classic oxidized or gooed contact syndrome,
shock it and it works, sometimes a mechanical shock, sometimes multiple
actuations, and sometimes just let it remained powered up for an
extended period of time once it works. Mostly the B loudspeaker set will
have been less used, and thus the relay in question hardly ever
actuated, that certainly fits the symptoms the questionee described.

I have a similar issue on my desk right now, an IBM 330 taken out of
retirement to do the job of intranet server. I thought the only way to
prevent them from working was to physically shred them, but it had major
problems recognizing any harddisk, except the one it came with ex works,
and even that one only occasionally, but once up, it would run, but log
a large number of controller errors in the first couple of days.

Now that it has been running for a week it is getting possible to power
it down and get it up on first attempt. It should have had a faster
disk, but I had to abandon that idea, at least initially. It great good
merits for the purpose are that it uses only about 30 watts and is
fairly silent.

Mark Z.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...

I have a similar issue on my desk right now, an IBM 330 taken out of
retirement to do the job of intranet server. I thought the only way to
prevent them from working was to physically shred them, but it had major
problems recognizing any harddisk, except the one it came with ex works,
and even that one only occasionally, but once up, it would run, but log
a large number of controller errors in the first couple of days.

Now that it has been running for a week it is getting possible to power
it down and get it up on first attempt. It should have had a faster
disk, but I had to abandon that idea, at least initially. It great good
merits for the purpose are that it uses only about 30 watts and is
fairly silent.

In a case like this, I'd try pulling all the cards, and other connectors,
and reseating them. Sometimes that's all it takes in an older system. A
little De-ox-it on the same connections may also help, but takes a bit
longer to do than just reseating everything.

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

In article , Mark Glickman
wrote:

Hi all,

I have a system with a Pioneer VSX-3000 stereo receiver (a fairly
old receiver, 60Wpc) controlling decent SPL monitors in one room and
Cambridge soundwork speakers in a second room. I've
noticed that when I have the volume low, the sound in one of
the speakers in a pair often drops out completely, and
sporadically comes back in. This happens in both sets of
speakers in each room. When the volume setting is moderate
or high, the sound does not cut out.

I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar problem, and
in particular whether the problem is the receiver itself, or
perhaps related to speaker wires. I'm pretty sure the
problem isn't the speakers, but I could be wrong. I've
been thinking of upgrading my receiver anyway, in which case
I would find out my answer through simple experimentation,
but I was curious if this was a common problem.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best,

- Mark

[snip]
I've had a similar problem with an SX-850 now and then, and find that a
periodic vigorous flipping of all the switches and rotation of all the
knobs while operating at an elevated sound level seems to restore
operation to normal, which leads me to conclude (as some others have)
that the problem is the result of contact oxidation that is being burnt
off during the process.

--
skin that tater before replying

In rec.audio.misc Ray Tate wrote:
: [snip]
: I've had a similar problem with an SX-850 now and then, and find that a
: periodic vigorous flipping of all the switches and rotation of all the
: knobs while operating at an elevated sound level seems to restore
: operation to normal, which leads me to conclude (as some others have)
: that the problem is the result of contact oxidation that is being burnt
: off during the process.

Thanks for the response - that's an interesting suggestion.
I just bought a new receiver (JVC RX-8040B) and the problems
I was experiencing have disappeared, thus ruling out the speakers
or speaker wire as the problem.

I'm planning to open up the old pioneer receiver and check
the contacts on the speaker switches. Hoping the restore
the receiver to a useable condition!

- Mark

--
Prof. Mark E. Glickman
Center for Health Quality, Outcomes & Economics Research
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Hospital (152), Bldg 70
200 Springs Road
Bedford, MA 01730

tel: (781) 687-2875
fax: (781) 687-3106
http://math.bu.edu/people/mg

Mark Glickman said:

I'm planning to open up the old pioneer receiver and check
the contacts on the speaker switches. Hoping the restore
the receiver to a useable condition!


Check the speaker relay(s).....9 out of 10 times this is where your
problem lies.

Either replace them, or clean the contacts (which isn't always
possible, and even when you succeed, sometimes the problem comes back
after a while).

--

- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -