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#81
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 6/16/2017 8:07 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
UnsteadyKen wrote: Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker? I've been interested in and following audio reproduction and equipment since the 60's. A lot of theatre speakers were designed for 16 ohms, in order to reduce the substantial cable losses between the booth and the speakers. You could order the Altec 288 horn driver, for instance, in anything from 8 to 24 ohms. Apart from oddities such as panels, ionophones and electrostatics, the only consumer loudspeakers I've been aware of with an impedance much above 8ohms were certain models of the LS3/5A which were available as 11 and 15 ohm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A It's not a win for consumer speakers since you're never going to see a very long cable run in that application, and making the higher impedance windings is more difficult. Consumer speakers are designed to be cheap. The LS3/5A was never designed as a consumer speaker, but in the end it sure wound up being successful in that market. --scott IIRC there were some JBL D130 speakers that were 16 ohm in the early years. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#82
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#84
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
John Williamson wrote:
#2. Define "something stupid". "Among other things, listening to dynamically compressed material at high volumes for a long continuous period. Up to a couple of minutes should be okay, an hour may count as being really stupid, leading to the magic smoke that all power amps contain escaping. -- Tciao for Now! John. " John W: SHHHHHH!! You're not supposed to use the term 'dyn_______y com_____ed'on here! You trigger the nun-bot! You mean: material with high average levels and low peak:avg ratio. |
#85
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
THECKKKKMAAAH! @ tardsRkozicki.net took a huge **** in his diaper
.... SHHHHHH!! You're not supposed to use the term 'dyn_______y com_____ed'on here! You trigger the nun-bot! As you know, the best way to get me to respond to you is to mention me in your post. Or maybe you don't know. I've explained it to you many times, in words even a retarded dumb**** can understand, but you're a very extra-specially retarded cretin, not any ordinary dumb****. I like how you keep calling me a "bot". I guess you just like to prove that you don't know what the word means. Another way of proudly waving your retard flag, maybe. Or maybe you've just got a pup-tent for me--what a revolting thought! But whatever blows your skirt up, li'l buddy. I like it how you're afraid to spell out my user name, as if changing the spelling somehow changes the magic words that you're so afraid of. Like when you drop F-bombs, but avoid the taboo by altering the spelling. It's retarded, but that's who you are! As for dynamic range compression (another phrase that seems to terrify your poor little imbecilic self), I have nothing against discussing it. But you can't discuss it, because you don't even underhand it. When you get in the saddle of that dead hobby horse, and start smearing your own **** all over your face, about something that you still don't (and never will) understand, you'll be called a retarded dumb****. You should know that by now, but nothing can get through that block of granite and into your little prune of a brain. It's also been entertaining watching you prove to anyone that cares that you're just too stupid to understand speaker impedance. That's another thing that's been explained to you over and over again, but you're just not equipped to understand it. you're just too stupid. Watching the village idiot can be entertaining, and you're the village idiot around here. HTH. DSKFHI. FCKWAFA! |
#86
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
stupid gibbered and drooled ...
#2. Define "something stupid". It's that retard with the blank look on his face, the one you see in the mirror. That's the shiny thing on the bathroom wall, not the thing you **** in and drink from, where you also like to look. FSKH. ESAD. FCKWAFRDFA. |
#87
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 17/06/2017 12:20 AM, UnsteadyKen wrote:
In article , says... I'm an empiricist - I'm the one who suspects they will become scarce based on the amount of 6, 5, 4, and even 3ohm speakers I'm seeing in retailers. Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker? I've been interested in and following audio reproduction and equipment since the 60's. Apart from oddities such as panels, ionophones and electrostatics, the only consumer loudspeakers I've been aware of with an impedance much above 8ohms were certain models of the LS3/5A which were available as 11 and 15 ohm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A A Google search for any current product only turns up some specialist drivers. I have an old elliptical speaker out of a valve radio that is 16 Ohms. geoff |
#88
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#89
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 16/06/2017 10:14 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote: On 16/06/2017 11:46 AM, Geoff wrote: On 16/06/2017 1:36 PM, wrote: Geoff wrote: "If your amp says 8 ohms minimum, then that is the lowest Z you should " That's what I always thought, and was instructed to by dealers and other audio people. I guess if 8ohm speakers become almost impossible to find in say, 10-20 years, I can always connect resistors in-line to make up for the difference. IE: 4ohm speakrs, just add minimum 4ohm resistor to the plus side going to each speaker, to double load to 8ohm per channel. This is a terrible idea, Right, in more ways than one! because the impedance of the speaker varies a lot with frequency, and the impedance of that series resistor does not. So now you have a resistive divider whose ratio changes with frequency, and you will find that the frequencies where the speaker impedance is low are suddenly accentuated. Actually where the speaker impedance is low, the series resistor will attenuate more than when the speaker impedance is high. (more voltage dropped across the larger impedance in a series network) Therefore the frequencies where the speaker impedance is *high* are accentuated Vs where it is low since the resistor remains constant. FAR better to simply connect two 4ohm speakers in series on each channel if absolutely necessary. This is even worse, because now you have a weird impedance in series with your speaker. If the two speakers are identical and have identical impedance curves, then their peaks and dips match to exaggerate one another. Rubbish, as long as they are identical the response will be the same as for one, neglecting any *acoustic* comb filtering that may occur afterwards. All peaks and dips in the impedance curve should be close enough so the voltage will share equally. And obviously the current is identical. However you are right, I did forget to add *identical* speakers in series. Not some stupid mismatched combination. Since on the whole you'll tend to have level dips corresponding with impedance peaks (admittedly a generalization) this will tend to exaggerate any response aberrations in the speaker. A speaker may have a perfectly flat response despite a large variation in impedance when driven from a low impedance source, such as any modern amplifier. The Bose 901 is the finest example of how series drivers can go terribly wrong. Right, but not for the reason you suggest. Can't imagine why you wouldn't want (or need) to replace your (already old) amplifier in 10 or 20 years as well though. I'm still running the 1961 vintage Citation II as the studio monitor amp. It sounds good and it's paid for. Occasionally I'll swap it out for something more modern just to make sure I'm not missing something. I doubt any JVC amplifier is in the same league however. Trevor. |
#90
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 16/06/2017 10:20 PM, UnsteadyKen wrote:
Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker? I've been interested in and following audio reproduction and equipment since the 60's. Apart from oddities such as panels, ionophones and electrostatics, the only consumer loudspeakers I've been aware of with an impedance much above 8ohms were certain models of the LS3/5A which were available as 11 and 15 ohm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A A Google search for any current product only turns up some specialist drivers. JBL once made all their pro drivers available in 8 or 16 ohm versions, as did a few other companies. Trevor. |
#91
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Trevor wrote: "On 16/06/2017 10:20 PM, UnsteadyKen wrote:
Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker? I've been interested in and following audio reproduction and equipment since the 60's. Apart from oddities such as panels, ionophones and electrostatics, the only consumer loudspeakers I've been aware of with an impedance much above 8ohms were certain models of the LS3/5A which were available as 11 and 15 ohm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A A Google search for any current product only turns up some specialist drivers. JBL once made all their pro drivers available in 8 or 16 ohm versions, as did a few other companies. Trevor. " So the average speaker impedance IS dropping over time. (Memo to geoff!) It is conceivable, that if one would look beyond their own nose in terms of time, that in a decade or two most, if not all, consumer speakers will have impedances between 3-6ohms. And 8ohm speakers will be looked at in the same way 16ohms are, today. |
#92
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 17/06/2017 5:02 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
IIRC there were some JBL D130 speakers that were 16 ohm in the early years. Many JBL pro drivers up to the 70's/80's were available in both 8 and 16 ohms according to my many catalogues from the era. Trevor. |
#93
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#94
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Trevor wrote:
----------------- The Bose 901 is the finest example of how series drivers can go terribly wrong. Right, but not for the reason you suggest. ** Heads up required here. The 9 Bose 4 inch drivers are wired either in 3 groups of 3 OR all nine in series - depend on when manufactued. I have had some dealings with the contraptions and never ahd reson to think power sharing was an issue. |
#95
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Mike Rivers wrote: " Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker?
How long must this go on? STOP, ALREADY!!!!!!!! " Mike: I'm NOT the one who posed that question. Scroll back upward - I believe you'll find it was UnsteadyKen who asked it. And meanwhile, take a chill pill. |
#96
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#97
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
John Williamson wrote: "There have been different speaker impedances for different purposes for
a very long time". Anyone should know that. My concern specifically is with a trend I perceive, real or not, in impedances among CONSUMER speakers, not professional ones, PA, etc. I'd be willing to bet money that in 10-20 years the average CONSUMER speaker, for use in the HOME, will have a much lower impedance than they do presently. I already see it, in how many 6, 5, 4, 3, and even 2!-ohm speakers I see where I work. |
#98
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
thekma @ retards.com took his morning dump on usenet ...
John Williamson wrote: "There have been different speaker impedances for different purposes for a very long time". Anyone should know that. My concern specifically is Your "concern" is the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. Posters with some knowledge keep trying to school you, but you are impervious to schooling. You're just too ****ing stupid. You keep gibbering about your obsessions, and one of your obsessions is to put your learning disabilities on display, and to make them the main subject of discussion in a newsgroup originally intended for discussions of audio production. Yes, everyone knows that you have an IQ that you can count on your fingers and toes, and your personality is even more revolting than that. Everyone knows that you will never, ever, understand how speaker impedance works. You won't shut the **** up about it, because your head is jammed so tightly into your rectal sphincter. I already see it, in how many 6, 5, 4, 3, and even 2!-ohm speakers I see where I work. Yes, that confirms that you don't get it. It's as if you haven't read a single word from the poor deluded souls that think you can understand. Besides, cast-off **** speakers at the used junk store where they hire mental defectives like you to do busy-work are hardly representative of the real world. FCKWAFR. EDFYT! |
#99
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 6/17/2017 9:54 AM, wrote:
My concern specifically is with a trend I perceive, real or not It's not real. Your perception is just your imagination going wild. Have a cup of tea, or pet your dog. I'd be willing to bet money that in 10-20 years the average CONSUMER speaker, for use in the HOME, will have a much lower impedance than they do presently. I'll trade bets with you. In 10-20 years, nobody at the consumer level will care about impedance or even know what it means. Loudspeakers will have evolved so that all of them will have integrated power amplifiers. Furthermore, analog audio inputs will disappear like the headphone jack on an iPhone. If your JVC amplifier is still working then (and it probably will be, if you don't connect 3 ohm speakers and run it at house-filling volume) you will have difficulty finding a loudspeaker as we know it today. You may be able to find drivers and you can design and build your own enclosure, however. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#100
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news you can design and build your own enclosure, however. No, theckhhhmaaah cannot design and build his own enclosure. He's too stupid. |
#101
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Mike Rivers wrote: "On 6/17/2017 9:54 AM, wrote:
" My concern specifically is with a trend I perceive, real or not It's not real. Your perception is just your imagination going wild. Have a cup of tea, or pet your dog. " So I'm just imagining that all those bookshelf, and some floorstanding, speakers say '6ohm' or lower on the backs. Thank you for that therapy session, helped me a lot! "I'll trade bets with you. In 10-20 years, nobody at the consumer level will care about impedance or even know what it means. " They don't know or care now! Which is pretty sad, given that it's basic info, like knowing how many cylinders are under the hood of ones daily driver. "Loudspeakers will have evolved so that all of them will have integrated power amplifiers." Another trend I don't like. I'druther central amplification with passive speakers. "Furthermore, analog audio inputs will disappear like the headphone jack on an iPhone. " Reinventing the wheel. Dumb. "If your JVC amplifier is still working then (and it probably will be, if you don't connect 3 ohm speakers and run it at house-filling volume) you will have difficulty finding a loudspeaker as we know it today. You may be able to find drivers and you can design and build your own enclosure, however. " Or install replacement drivers into the existing cabinets. |
#102
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Thekma the Retard @ ****tard.com shat in message
... Mike Rivers wrote: "On 6/17/2017 9:54 AM, wrote: " My concern specifically is with a trend I perceive, real or not It's not real. Your perception is just your imagination going wild. Have a cup of tea, or pet your dog. " So I'm just imagining that all those bookshelf, and some floorstanding, speakers say '6ohm' or lower on the backs. Thank you for that therapy session, helped me a lot! No, it obviously went right over your basaltic head, and you didn't understand at all. Your abject stupidy did not succumb to any imagined "therapy". People that understand audio keep trying to explain to you, but you steadfastly maintain that you, the retarded village idiot, know better than people who actually know what they're talking about. You just have to wave your retard flag, which seems to consist of a wad of used bumf. |
#103
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
None wrote:
----------------- Your "concern" is the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. Posters with some knowledge keep trying to school you, but you are impervious to schooling. You're just too ****ing stupid. You keep gibbering about your obsessions, and one of your obsessions is to put your learning disabilities on display, and to make them the main subject of discussion in a newsgroup originally intended for discussions of audio production. Yes, everyone knows that you have an IQ that you can count on your fingers and toes, and your personality is even more revolting than that. Everyone knows that you will never, ever, understand how speaker impedance works. You won't shut the **** up about it, because your head is jammed so tightly into your rectal sphincter. ** Very eloquently put, even better than I usually manage myself. How sad such valid insights are doomed to be pearls wasted on swine. Now that usenet is nothing but a pig sty. ..... Phil |
#104
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#105
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
John Williamson wrote: "
You seem not to know the difference between professional and consumer audio, or you wouldn't be posting in a professinal group about home audio. " With all due respect, I'm not the one who started this thread about 'Hi-Fi speakers.' I'm just weighing in. So do not ASSume what I do or do not know the difference between. Thank you. |
#106
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
thekma @ dumb****.org spewed in message
... So do not ASSume what I do or do not know the difference between. Everyone knows that you're an ass, and you've proven that you don't know a damn thing. Thank you. **** you, retard. IFSKN. FCLWAD. FJKS. |
#107
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#108
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 6/17/2017 4:40 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 16/06/2017 10:20 PM, UnsteadyKen wrote: Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker? I've been interested in and following audio reproduction and equipment since the 60's. Apart from oddities such as panels, ionophones and electrostatics, the only consumer loudspeakers I've been aware of with an impedance much above 8ohms were certain models of the LS3/5A which were available as 11 and 15 ohm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A A Google search for any current product only turns up some specialist drivers. JBL once made all their pro drivers available in 8 or 16 ohm versions, as did a few other companies. Trevor. I was browsing some old JBL vintage sites and I noticed they had a number of 32 ohm speakers available way back when. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#109
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 18/06/2017 12:44 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/17/2017 9:54 AM, wrote: My concern specifically is with a trend I perceive, real or not It's not real. Your perception is just your imagination going wild. Have a cup of tea, or pet your dog. I'd be willing to bet money that in 10-20 years the average CONSUMER speaker, for use in the HOME, will have a much lower impedance than they do presently. I'll trade bets with you. In 10-20 years, nobody at the consumer level will care about impedance or even know what it means. Loudspeakers will have evolved so that all of them will have integrated power amplifiers. Furthermore, analog audio inputs will disappear like the headphone jack on an iPhone. If your JVC amplifier is still working then (and it probably will be, if you don't connect 3 ohm speakers and run it at house-filling volume) you will have difficulty finding a loudspeaker as we know it today. You may be able to find drivers and you can design and build your own enclosure, however. Thekma being able to "design and build" his own enclosure, now that's a laugh! :-) And I'm not so sure his JVC will last that long anyway. He wouldn't be able to fix it, and he'll find out it is not economic to get someone else to fix it for him when caps, pots etc finally need replacing, even if he doesn't blow it up first. Trevor. |
#110
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
On 18/06/2017 7:40 PM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 6/17/2017 4:40 AM, Trevor wrote: On 16/06/2017 10:20 PM, UnsteadyKen wrote: Have you ever seen a 16 ohm loudspeaker? I've been interested in and following audio reproduction and equipment since the 60's. Apart from oddities such as panels, ionophones and electrostatics, the only consumer loudspeakers I've been aware of with an impedance much above 8ohms were certain models of the LS3/5A which were available as 11 and 15 ohm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS3/5A A Google search for any current product only turns up some specialist drivers. JBL once made all their pro drivers available in 8 or 16 ohm versions, as did a few other companies. I was browsing some old JBL vintage sites and I noticed they had a number of 32 ohm speakers available way back when. Yes, I think they were aimed specifically at the theatre sound market to reduce cable losses. JBL and Altec being major players in that market. Trevor. |
#111
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Trevor wrote: "On 18/06/2017 7:40 PM, gray_wolf wrote:
I was browsing some old JBL vintage sites and I noticed they had a number of 32 ohm speakers available way back when. Yes, I think they were aimed specifically at the theatre sound market to reduce cable losses. JBL and Altec being major players in that market. Trevor. " The That's another thing I don't get. HOW does a HIGH-impedance speaker "reduce cable losses" in long runs like in a movie theatre?? I'd think you'd want efficient, low impedance speakers in a huge space like that. |
#112
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#113
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#114
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
thekma @ ****ing-idiot.net wrote in message
... The That's another thing I don't get. The list of things you "don't get" is endless. As usual, as the village idiot, you want the topic of discussion to be your utter failure to understand. Your inability to learn, your brain damage, and the fact that you have your head deep in your rectum, are the only things you want to discuss. You're a retarded dumb****, and you are incapable of understanding how speaker impedance works. You're simply too stupid. JSFH. TFS FCKWAFA! |
#115
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
"John Williamson" wrote in message
... On 19/06/2017 11:25, wrote: The That's another thing I don't get. Again, you prove your almost complete lack of knowledge. Yes, Theckmaaah proves that he's a retarded dumb****, and a ****ing asshole, too. Nothing more than a skidmark. |
#116
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
John Williamson wrote: "Again, you prove your almost complete lack of knowledge. The lower the
speaker impedance, the higher the drive current for a given power, and the more power you lose in the speaker cables, which can be calculated by using Ohm's law. " So if I'm reading you right, the principle is that lower impedance speakers 'draw more current' from an amp, and potentially, more current than a given amp can provide? Would this be akin to a bicyclist pedaling a bicycle with the rear wheels jacked off the ground? "Also, speaker efficiency has very little connection to speaker impedance in any case, and in cinemas, the main control over efficiency is the way the drive unit is acoustically coupled and matched to the horn. " Ok, so "efficiency" was a bad choice of words on my part. My mind just logically assumed that lower impedance speakers were more efficient to drive. That's where I was going with that. "The alternative is to make the speaker cables *much* heavier, which costs a fortune on long runs. The technology at the time did not permit the amplifiers to be located behind the screen with the speakers, and the alternative of using 100 volt line amplifiers and transformers to match the speakers to the line is inefficient and is not good for audio quality. " |
#117
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
This is a terrible idea, because the impedance of the speaker varies a lot with frequency, and the impedance of that series resistor does not. So now you have a resistive divider whose ratio changes with frequency, and you will find that the frequencies where the speaker impedance is low are suddenly accentuated. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think that should be attenuated. m |
#118
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
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#119
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
John Williamson wrote: "I have explained things in terms I would have understood when I was eleven years old, and just starting to study physics. There is no
simpler way to explain the situation than the differing ways I have put it many times, trying to get through your stubbornly sticky ignorance. " I never had the capacity to understand speaker resistance, at eleven or now. "I'm almost tempted to believe you actually understand what I am talking abut and you are trolling for a reaction. " Not at all. With a straight face I'm telling you John: I DON'T get it. I have no gain nor the patience to "troll" you or anybody. So I will just continue to go by the impedance numbers listed on the backs of amps/receivers and speakers, read the manuals, and just follow the rules. Not do anything stupid, like hook up 4 ohm speakers to an amp that says "4-8ohms" on the back. |
#120
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How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?
Meant to say "8-16ohms" on the back.
F'king NUMBERS!!! |
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