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#1
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The Myth About 'Demo' Equipment
I'm always a little amused when someone selling a piece of high-end
equipment touts the fact that it's a 'Demo', suggesting somehow that it's just short of new. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Demo units are generally subject to much more abuse than home units. Think about it… No single individual has a vested interest in its welfare… Any number of different people have access to it, including a fair number of stringers, who have nothing to lose by 'experimenting' with it; "Dude, how loud are these babies?" - "Whats this button do? - Oops!", etc. I remember one afternoon many years ago at Sound by Swindler (Ooops, I meant Sound by 'Singer'), where the salesman left the room briefly and I took my hand at the patch bay. I was anxious to compare one Theta D/A converter with another. I didn't know what I was doing and blew fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. If you think Andy Singer ultimately disclosed that to the buyer of those 2 demos, we have a bridge here in New York that I'd be glad to sell you. For the record; the best experiences I've had buying used audio gear, were from trusted individuals, not merchants. A_C |
#2
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Agent_C wrote:
I'm always a little amused when someone selling a piece of high-end equipment touts the fact that it's a 'Demo', suggesting somehow that it's just short of new. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Demo units are generally subject to much more abuse than home units. Think about it… No single individual has a vested interest in its welfare… Any number of different people have access to it, including a fair number of stringers, who have nothing to lose by 'experimenting' with it; "Dude, how loud are these babies?" - "Whats this button do? - Oops!", etc. I remember one afternoon many years ago at Sound by Swindler (Ooops, I meant Sound by 'Singer'), where the salesman left the room briefly and I took my hand at the patch bay. I was anxious to compare one Theta D/A converter with another. I didn't know what I was doing and blew fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. If you think Andy Singer ultimately disclosed that to the buyer of those 2 demos, we have a bridge here in New York that I'd be glad to sell you. For the record; the best experiences I've had buying used audio gear, were from trusted individuals, not merchants. If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Is this a troll btw ? Graham |
#3
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Agent_C wrote: I'm always a little amused when someone selling a piece of high-end equipment touts the fact that it's a 'Demo', suggesting somehow that it's just short of new. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Demo units are generally subject to much more abuse than home units. Think about it… No single individual has a vested interest in its welfare… Any number of different people have access to it, including a fair number of stringers, who have nothing to lose by 'experimenting' with it; "Dude, how loud are these babies?" - "Whats this button do? - Oops!", etc. I remember one afternoon many years ago at Sound by Swindler (Ooops, I meant Sound by 'Singer'), where the salesman left the room briefly and I took my hand at the patch bay. I was anxious to compare one Theta D/A converter with another. I didn't know what I was doing and blew fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. If you think Andy Singer ultimately disclosed that to the buyer of those 2 demos, we have a bridge here in New York that I'd be glad to sell you. For the record; the best experiences I've had buying used audio gear, were from trusted individuals, not merchants. A_C Blan blah blah Troll troll troll |
#4
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Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. I was wondering about that, too. Maybe he plugged an amplifier output to a mic preamp input or something like that. People who aren't careful enough not to do that have no business fooling around with someone else's gear. I'll bet he never went back to that store (for more reasons than questioning the condition of their "demo" equipment). The clerk might have a good memory. |
#5
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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:20:54 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Is this a troll btw ? Are you stupid? - Over-driving the equipment, recklessly - Blowing internal components by interconnecting while still powered up. -Miss wiring The list is long… A_C |
#6
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On 27 Aug 2005 07:27:36 -0700, "Mike Rivers"
wrote: I was wondering about that, too. Maybe he plugged an amplifier output to a mic preamp input or something like that. People who aren't careful enough not to do that have no business fooling around with someone else's gear. That's precisely my point... Demo gear is subjected to things a thoughtful owner would never do. A_C |
#7
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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:30:24 -0400, Agent_C wrote:
I remember one afternoon many years ago at Sound by Swindler (Ooops, I meant Sound by 'Singer'), where the salesman left the room briefly and I took my hand at the patch bay. I was anxious to compare one Theta D/A converter with another. I didn't know what I was doing and blew fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. What kind of patchbay has opamps in it? |
#8
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Agent_C wrote: I'm always a little amused when someone selling a piece of high-end equipment touts the fact that it's a 'Demo', suggesting somehow that it's just short of new. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Demo units are generally subject to much more abuse than home units. Think about it... No single individual has a vested interest in its welfare... Any number of different people have access to it, including a fair number of stringers, who have nothing to lose by 'experimenting' with it; "Dude, how loud are these babies?" - "Whats this button do? - Oops!", etc. It depends on who you get it from and what sort of warranty is offered. If you buy direct from a manufacturer offering gear at a discount that's been used for trade show demos, it usually comes with a good warranty and they check it out fully before packing it up for discounted sale. If you buy a demo piece off the shelf from a dealer, you might get get something that's been mishandled and generally the dealer doesn't know enough about it to check it out fully. The kind of warranty you get is usually the factory warranty (since it's never been sold, the factory will honor it) and the dealer will almost always give you a reasonable amount of time for you to check it out yourself and return it for a full refund if you're not satisfied. For the record; the best experiences I've had buying used audio gear, were from trusted individuals, not merchants. How do you know who to trust? I've bought very little gear from people I don't know, and I've never had a bad deal, but there's so much gear sold by people who know so little about it that the chances of getting less than you expected are not at all remote. |
#9
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Agent_C wrote: I'm always a little amused when someone selling a piece of high-end equipment touts the fact that it's a 'Demo', suggesting somehow that it's just short of new. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Demo units are generally subject to much more abuse than home units. Think about it. No single individual has a vested interest in its welfare. Any number of different people have access to it, including a fair number of stringers, who have nothing to lose by 'experimenting' with it; "Dude, how loud are these babies?" - "Whats this button do? - Oops!", etc. I remember one afternoon many years ago at Sound by Swindler (Ooops, I meant Sound by 'Singer'), where the salesman left the room briefly and I took my hand at the patch bay. I was anxious to compare one Theta D/A converter with another. I didn't know what I was doing and blew fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. If you think Andy Singer ultimately disclosed that to the buyer of those 2 demos, we have a bridge here in New York that I'd be glad to sell you. For the record; the best experiences I've had buying used audio gear, were from trusted individuals, not merchants. A_C Blan blah blah Troll troll troll Troll or not, hi-end shops allow people to take stuff home for audition at times over the weekend. I myself did that from two shops in the NYC suburbs. Only G-d knows what happens there. |
#10
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Agent_C wrote:
On 27 Aug 2005 07:27:36 -0700, "Mike Rivers" wrote: I was wondering about that, too. Maybe he plugged an amplifier output to a mic preamp input or something like that. People who aren't careful enough not to do that have no business fooling around with someone else's gear. That's precisely my point... Demo gear is subjected to things a thoughtful owner would never do. EVERYTHING in a commercial studio is subjected to things a thoughtful owner would never do. --scott What? You drove away the remote truck without noticing one of the multipins was still plugged in? No problem.... -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#11
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Mike Rivers wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. I was wondering about that, too. Maybe he plugged an amplifier output to a mic preamp input or something like that. In which case the amplifier output should never have been on the patch bay ! People who aren't careful enough not to do that have no business fooling around with someone else's gear. Yup. Graham |
#12
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There are good reasons for buying "demo" -- if it still has the full
warranty. One reason is that it's passed the point of "infant mortality". Another is that you might get a very attractive price. (Some dealers no doubt use "this is demo gear" to grant a discount when they're not "supposed" to.) I would not turn up my nose at demo gear. |
#13
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Agent_C wrote: On 27 Aug 2005 07:27:36 -0700, "Mike Rivers" wrote: I was wondering about that, too. Maybe he plugged an amplifier output to a mic preamp input or something like that. People who aren't careful enough not to do that have no business fooling around with someone else's gear. That's precisely my point... Demo gear is subjected to things a thoughtful owner would never do. Nothing that's on a patch bay should be 'damageable' by cross-patching. If it happened it was defective product design that was at fault.. Graham |
#14
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How about a Neve 8108/8128? It's loaded with crappy 4741 quad opamps as
is the rest of the console. What a disaster! Jim Williams Audio Upgrades |
#15
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Agent_C wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:20:54 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Is this a troll btw ? Are you stupid? I'm a very experienced pro-audio designer actually who smelt a rat. - Over-driving the equipment, recklessly You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. In fact almost no electronics can be 'overdriven' to destruction these days. OK - valve ( toob ) amps will go bang if the speaker gets disonnected while it's working but just about everything else is bulletproof. Btw - it's possible to make valve amps tolerant of even that condition actually. - Blowing internal components by interconnecting while still powered up. -Miss wiring The list is long… None of those things should damage *competently designed* equipment. Graham |
#16
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Scott Dorsey wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. I believe him, because I have been to Sound by Singer. But I agree completely that the vast majority of stuff they sell shouldn't be on sale. You mean they're selling trash ? Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Personally I don't care about a few dings and scratches here and there. After it's been on the road with me for a decade, it'll be a lot more beat up. If it's good equipment, it can take that. If it's bad equipment, I'd rather find out as soon as possible. Indeed. I'd rather get money off for a few scratches that'll soon be there anyway. I've actually purchased a fair bit of fully pre-owned gear over the years - not just demo stock - and never regretted it. Graham |
#17
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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:53:59 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? A_C |
#18
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Agent_C wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:53:59 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? I said *line level equipment*. I expected you to know what that means. Graham |
#19
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#20
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. I believe him, because I have been to Sound by Singer. But I agree completely that the vast majority of stuff they sell shouldn't be on sale. You mean they're selling trash ? They are high end dealers that have fallen into some of the worst pitfalls of the high end industry. They sell boutique gear, much of which sells very few units, and therefore which doesn't get the degree of testing and careful engineering that pro audio gear does. There is also a great obsession (and a warranted one in my opinion) in the high end industry about removing anything that could affect the sound adversely in any way, and simplifying circuits as much as possible. Sadly this means that things like clamp diodes are complete anathema to these folks. There is a huge amount of high end gear out there which is absolutely trash. On the other hand, there is also some gear out there which is very delicate but sounds good enough to warrant the delicacy. There is also some gear out there that is built by a few boutique vendors that is of very high quality and is both rugged and excellent sounding. Take the Krell power amps and the Ongaku power amps as examples of both extremes. Note also that there is a lot of patently fraudulent equipment sold in the high-end world. Then again, occasionally there is something which seems fraudulent but actually improves the sound. I've actually purchased a fair bit of fully pre-owned gear over the years - not just demo stock - and never regretted it. Almost everything I own was purchased used. Even the cat. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#21
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Agent_C wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:53:59 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? Depends on the application. One of the requirements for full-range studio monitors in many applications is that they _cannot_ be damaged even by idiots. The original poster, though, specified line level equipment specifically to eliminate speakers. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#22
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I agree. KISS and Murphy.
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#23
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Agent_C wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:20:54 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Is this a troll btw ? Are you stupid? I'm a very experienced pro-audio designer actually who smelt a rat. Would that be: "I'm a very experienced pro-audio designer actually,who smelt a rat." or: "I'm a very experienced pro-audio designer,actually who smelt a rat." Is there a difference? ..hmmm hehe :-) req |
#24
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"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message Agent_C wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:53:59 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? I said *line level equipment*. I expected you to know what that means. Playing the devil's advocate, self-powered speakers are line level equipment. However, I agree with you that it is reasonable to expect that self-powered speakers are also self-protecting. |
#25
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Agent_C wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:53:59 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? Depends on the application. One of the requirements for full-range studio monitors in many applications is that they _cannot_ be damaged even by idiots. Indeed, there are various methods available to the designer to make sure of this. If a speaker burns out when used in its intended application, it's likely to be simply 'bad design'. Graham |
#26
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Pooh Bear wrote: If you can *blow* gear by patching it - it shouldn't be on sale. I simply don't believe you. I believe him, because I have been to Sound by Singer. But I agree completely that the vast majority of stuff they sell shouldn't be on sale. You mean they're selling trash ? They are high end dealers that have fallen into some of the worst pitfalls of the high end industry. They sell boutique gear, much of which sells very few units, and therefore which doesn't get the degree of testing and careful engineering that pro audio gear does. You could also say simply that pro-audio designers know what tends to break stuff and take measures to avoid it. I honestly don't need to agonise over it. To me it's just plain 'good design'. There is also a great obsession (and a warranted one in my opinion) in the high end industry about removing anything that could affect the sound adversely in any way, and simplifying circuits as much as possible. Sadly this means that things like clamp diodes are complete anathema to these folks. Foolish. It's easy to demonstrate that such things are sonically transparent ( if you accept scientific principles rather than voodoo ) but when you're dealing with ppl who reckon the direction the cable is pointing affects the sound............ There is a huge amount of high end gear out there which is absolutely trash. On the other hand, there is also some gear out there which is very delicate but sounds good enough to warrant the delicacy. Let me at it ! I'll make it robust. I'm good at that ! :-) There is also some gear out there that is built by a few boutique vendors that is of very high quality and is both rugged and excellent sounding. Take the Krell power amps and the Ongaku power amps as examples of both extremes. I've met Krells. Almost 'over-enginered' but none the worse for it. Note also that there is a lot of patently fraudulent equipment sold in the high-end world. Then again, occasionally there is something which seems fraudulent but actually improves the sound. I've actually purchased a fair bit of fully pre-owned gear over the years - not just demo stock - and never regretted it. Almost everything I own was purchased used. Even the cat. I once knew a fantastic formerly feral cat. She 'moved in' with my g/f and family. What a character ! Graham |
#27
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Pooh Bear wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: There is also a great obsession (and a warranted one in my opinion) in the high end industry about removing anything that could affect the sound adversely in any way, and simplifying circuits as much as possible. Sadly this means that things like clamp diodes are complete anathema to these folks. Foolish. It's easy to demonstrate that such things are sonically transparent ( if you accept scientific principles rather than voodoo ) but when you're dealing with ppl who reckon the direction the cable is pointing affects the sound............ I don't know if I believe that all the time. You'd think that a clamp diode that is turned off wouldn't affect the sound at all since all it's adding is a little capacitance. But I've been fiddling around for six years on and off trying to get a preamp with a front end built from the THAT transistor arrays, and none of the protection methods I have tried have been totally inaudible and also effective. I have several times just considered throwing the front end away and using a transformer. I keep promising a DIY preamp article project for Recording magazine, and this is why it's not happening. That and the fact that I can't figure out any way to reduce power supply costs without also affecting the sound. There is a huge amount of high end gear out there which is absolutely trash. On the other hand, there is also some gear out there which is very delicate but sounds good enough to warrant the delicacy. Let me at it ! I'll make it robust. I'm good at that ! :-) You want a preamp design to poke at? It's nothing fancy... There is also some gear out there that is built by a few boutique vendors that is of very high quality and is both rugged and excellent sounding. Take the Krell power amps and the Ongaku power amps as examples of both extremes. I've met Krells. Almost 'over-enginered' but none the worse for it. I approve. They sound good, they work well, they don't break. The Ongaku costs substantially more but cannot say any of these things. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#28
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Scott Dorsey wrote: Depends on the application. One of the requirements for full-range studio monitors in many applications is that they _cannot_ be damaged even by idiots. The original poster, though, specified line level equipment specifically to eliminate speakers. He did not suggest anything that eliminated idiots, however. |
#29
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Scott Dorsey wrote: I believe him, because I have been to Sound by Singer. They are high end dealers that have fallen into some of the worst pitfalls of the high end industry. They sell boutique gear, much of which sells very few units, and therefore which doesn't get the degree of testing and careful engineering that pro audio gear does. There is also a great obsession (and a warranted one in my opinion) in the high end industry about removing anything that could affect the sound adversely in any way, and simplifying circuits as much as possible. Sadly this means that things like clamp diodes are complete anathema to these folks. Ah, so we're not talking about studio or road gear here, we're talking about audiophule stuff? Heck, they probably DID have power amplifier outputs on the demo room patchbay. |
#30
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: There is also a great obsession (and a warranted one in my opinion) in the high end industry about removing anything that could affect the sound adversely in any way, and simplifying circuits as much as possible. Sadly this means that things like clamp diodes are complete anathema to these folks. Foolish. It's easy to demonstrate that such things are sonically transparent ( if you accept scientific principles rather than voodoo ) but when you're dealing with ppl who reckon the direction the cable is pointing affects the sound............ I don't know if I believe that all the time. You'd think that a clamp diode that is turned off wouldn't affect the sound at all since all it's adding is a little capacitance. It does indeed add a *little* capacitance. Barely worth mentioning unless you reckon you need Megahertz bandwidth to recreate audio like the audiophools. But I've been fiddling around for six years on and off trying to get a preamp with a front end built from the THAT transistor arrays, and none of the protection methods I have tried have been totally inaudible and also effective. I'd be interested to hear more. I have several times just considered throwing the front end away and using a transformer. But then you're listening to the transformer instead of the pre-amp ! I keep promising a DIY preamp article project for Recording magazine, and this is why it's not happening. That and the fact that I can't figure out any way to reduce power supply costs without also affecting the sound. Look. I'll sort out your psu. My own designs for commercial use have typically 200-300uV of audio band noise on the rails. I can easily do better still. There is a huge amount of high end gear out there which is absolutely trash. On the other hand, there is also some gear out there which is very delicate but sounds good enough to warrant the delicacy. Let me at it ! I'll make it robust. I'm good at that ! :-) You want a preamp design to poke at? It's nothing fancy... Show me ! The hotmail addy works btw. There is also some gear out there that is built by a few boutique vendors that is of very high quality and is both rugged and excellent sounding. Take the Krell power amps and the Ongaku power amps as examples of both extremes. I've met Krells. Almost 'over-enginered' but none the worse for it. I approve. They sound good, they work well, they don't break. Very good principles. The Ongaku costs substantially more but cannot say any of these things. I'm not familiar with that design. Graham |
#31
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Pooh Bear wrote:
But I've been fiddling around for six years on and off trying to get a preamp with a front end built from the THAT transistor arrays, and none of the protection methods I have tried have been totally inaudible and also effective. I'd be interested to hear more. Bug me and I'll fax you a schematic. It's really just a long-tailed pair driving a couple 2N5088s. Nothing even remotely innovative. I have several times just considered throwing the front end away and using a transformer. But then you're listening to the transformer instead of the pre-amp ! Right, which I was trying to avoid. On the other hand, it's free voltage gain! And then I could use an EF86 on the front and forget about protection. And spend ten times as much on a power supply. I keep promising a DIY preamp article project for Recording magazine, and this is why it's not happening. That and the fact that I can't figure out any way to reduce power supply costs without also affecting the sound. Look. I'll sort out your psu. My own designs for commercial use have typically 200-300uV of audio band noise on the rails. I can easily do better still. +/-36V regulated, plus a regulated +48V for phantom, using only parts in the Digi-Key catalogue, total parts cost under $25. (The good news is that Digi-Key stocks the Talema toroids, or whatever they are calling themselves now). If you can do it under $20, that would be even better. MOVs on the input are nice but the Talema things have such high noise rejection that no common-mode choke is required. The Ongaku costs substantially more but cannot say any of these things. I'm not familiar with that design. Do a web search. It was one of the amps that first started the whole SE triode explosion. The problem is that it doesn't sound good. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#32
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
The Ongaku costs substantially more but cannot say any of these things. I'm not familiar with that design. Do a web search. It was one of the amps that first started the whole SE triode explosion. The problem is that it doesn't sound good. Scott, you mean the Ongaku amp whose schematic can be found at: http://www.drtube.com/ ongaku.gif ? |
#33
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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:08:35 -0400, Agent_C
wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? Which part of "line level" don't you understand? |
#34
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"Laurence Payne"
wrote in message On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:08:35 -0400, Agent_C wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? Which part of "line level" don't you understand? The part where powered speakers have line level inputs? ;-) |
#36
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Pooh Bear" wrote in message
... Scott Dorsey wrote: Agent_C wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:53:59 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote: You simply can't 'overdrive' line level equpiment in a way that'll damage it unless it's very defectively designed. Speakers? Depends on the application. One of the requirements for full-range studio monitors in many applications is that they _cannot_ be damaged even by idiots. You mean like plugging them straight into the outputs of a Lynx card with no volume control other than the master outs of the software & having the program lock up when trying to open it because it had too many plugs? Yesteday ...did that ever suck! |
#37
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Only thing I can think of is plugging in the wrong wall-wart power supply. That can generate some smoke. Gareth. Graham |
#38
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Gareth Magennis wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message Now - realistically - what damage do you think can be *really* done by 'demoing' gear ? Only thing I can think of is plugging in the wrong wall-wart power supply. That can generate some smoke. I assure you that NOTHING at Sound By Singer would be seen sporting a wall-wart. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#39
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didn't know what I was doing and blew
fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. If you think Andy Singer ultimately disclosed that to the buyer of those 2 demos, we have a bridge here in New York that I'd be glad to sell you. Did you disclose what you had done to Andy Singer? "Agent_C" wrote in message ... I'm always a little amused when someone selling a piece of high-end equipment touts the fact that it's a 'Demo', suggesting somehow that it's just short of new. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Demo units are generally subject to much more abuse than home units. Think about it. No single individual has a vested interest in its welfare. Any number of different people have access to it, including a fair number of stringers, who have nothing to lose by 'experimenting' with it; "Dude, how loud are these babies?" - "Whats this button do? - Oops!", etc. I remember one afternoon many years ago at Sound by Swindler (Ooops, I meant Sound by 'Singer'), where the salesman left the room briefly and I took my hand at the patch bay. I was anxious to compare one Theta D/A converter with another. I didn't know what I was doing and blew fuses on 2 components, as well as an op-amp in the bay. If you think Andy Singer ultimately disclosed that to the buyer of those 2 demos, we have a bridge here in New York that I'd be glad to sell you. For the record; the best experiences I've had buying used audio gear, were from trusted individuals, not merchants. A_C |
#40
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On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:58:32 -0600, "Animix"
wrote: Did you disclose what you had done to Andy Singer? Yes, Miss Crabtree. A_C |
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