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  #1   Report Post  
Dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magnepan MG-20s for sale

I am sadly putting my Maggie MG-20 speakers up for sale. Their place
in our house is overcome by advances in living space (according to
some) and my lack of time to really enjoy them. These are truly
amazing speakers that can do some things like no others anywhere.
They are in excellent condition, lightly used, currenly beige cloth
with natural oak panels. When I got them they black on black. I have
the original black wood and cloth packed in the boxes and stored at
work. I haven't looked at this stuff in years so while I expect it's
in good condition I have not checked up on it recently. On one of the
speakers the funky connections that need an allen wrench broke so I
replaced it with a heavy duty five way binding post. On the other,
the connection plate is slightly dented, presumably from shipping. I
believe I am the second owner and they were that way when I got them.
I'm sure Magnepan can take care of replacing anything you'd like at a
reasonable price.

You should know, these need to be biamped. Ideally with big
amplifiers. They do not come with the speaker level crossover. They
DO come with a custom make line level Linkwitz-Reily crossover that is
adjustable in either 8 Hz or 17 Hz steps. I need to pop the cover to
see what the resistor values are to be sure. I built it in 1998 if
I'm not mistaken and have just enjoyed it since. The crossover has
adjustable gain to allow setting the level to suit the output of your
preamp or CD player. All adjustments in the crossover are through DIP
switches. 'm using a player with adjustable volume out so it's CD,
crossover, amps, speakers. There are two inputs on the crossover so
you can also use a preamp for records or whatever.

I'm in Northern Virginia and would really prefer a local buyer. I do
have the original boxes so they can be shipped if required.

What is included:
- two speakers
- black wood trim and cloth, condition not guaranteed until I get out
the boxes
- original boxes
- custom made, active crossover

I may be convinced to let go of my amplification.

Shipping if required is at actual cost.

Sell for $5500.
Reply via email to xsdaver at cox dot net. Thanks.
  #2   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 5/10/03 3:18, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

records or whatever.

I'm in Northern Virginia and would



BLUEBOOK value, $1400


  #3   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 5/10/03 3:18, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

records or whatever.

I'm in Northern Virginia and would



BLUEBOOK value, $1400


  #8   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 26/10/03 6:38, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple.


Bluebook says:
-------------

http://www.orionbluebook.com/orion/company/faq.htm


"The used prices are derived from dealer surveys gathered nationwide.*
Dealers are asked to provide the "selling price" and "days to sell".* The
used price is then calculated based on what an average store could sell the
product for in 30 days or less.
*
The price has proven to be an accurate reflection of the
actual marketplace"

Therefore the bluebook price documents ACTUAL SALES and your complaint is
rejected.


  #9   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 26/10/03 6:38, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple.


Bluebook says:
-------------

http://www.orionbluebook.com/orion/company/faq.htm


"The used prices are derived from dealer surveys gathered nationwide.*
Dealers are asked to provide the "selling price" and "days to sell".* The
used price is then calculated based on what an average store could sell the
product for in 30 days or less.
*
The price has proven to be an accurate reflection of the
actual marketplace"

Therefore the bluebook price documents ACTUAL SALES and your complaint is
rejected.


  #10   Report Post  
Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I haven't posted here in a long while, but I lets get this straight. There
are SEVERAL prices listed in the bluebook (from mint floor to trade in dirt)
.. Mr. Sleazebag McCarty ONLY reports the lowest price for everything. He
is a mentally incompetent troll with a serious delusion.

The only reason I read his stuff and not KILLFILE him is that for the most
part it is a chuckle. He ain't going away, so at least he serves a purpose,
making me laugh! So just sit back watch the one legged man in an ass
kicking contest and laugh till your blue in the face.





  #11   Report Post  
Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I haven't posted here in a long while, but I lets get this straight. There
are SEVERAL prices listed in the bluebook (from mint floor to trade in dirt)
.. Mr. Sleazebag McCarty ONLY reports the lowest price for everything. He
is a mentally incompetent troll with a serious delusion.

The only reason I read his stuff and not KILLFILE him is that for the most
part it is a chuckle. He ain't going away, so at least he serves a purpose,
making me laugh! So just sit back watch the one legged man in an ass
kicking contest and laugh till your blue in the face.



  #12   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dave wrote in
:

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 19:44:34 GMT, OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
wrote:

On 5/10/03 3:18, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

records or whatever.

I'm in Northern Virginia and would



BLUEBOOK value, $1400

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple. You may find a pair
at triple that, but I haven't seen one yet. At least not in good
condition.

The Blue Book is published to provide dealers with what appears to be
factual data so they can show customers what they have is worth less
than it is. The dealer gets the trade in at a bargain basement price,
the consumer gets ripped off because they've seen in print what their
equipment is worth.


Dave,

Don't worry, Brian lies or lies by omission every single time he posts.

Here is what Orion *really* says about the speakers.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"

That $1400.00 figure is trade-in value and NOT what anyone would sell them
for dealer or not. In addition the prices are simple guidelines, and are
subject to market variations, etc. A quick check on Ebay will generally
be a good indicator of what the market value is for a given item. Given
that the target audience for the data is a dealer here is what Orion says
about the prices published.

"Definition of price catagories

Used Retail value of used equipment representing the current open market
price for a specific product or fair market value. The used price reflects
what a product can be resold for within 30 days. This information has been
determined by national dealer surveys.

Mint (wholesale) Value paid to the customer if the unit is in
excellent working order and appearance.

Average (wholesale) Average value paid to the customer for a product

MSRP Manufacturer's Suggested Selling Price. This value represents the
most recent manufacturer's suggested selling price. It does not represent
any discounts applied."

So you see, Brian is just a lying troll.

r

PS. Thanks to Orion Bluebook for providing these prices.

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


  #13   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dave wrote in
:

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 19:44:34 GMT, OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
wrote:

On 5/10/03 3:18, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

records or whatever.

I'm in Northern Virginia and would



BLUEBOOK value, $1400

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple. You may find a pair
at triple that, but I haven't seen one yet. At least not in good
condition.

The Blue Book is published to provide dealers with what appears to be
factual data so they can show customers what they have is worth less
than it is. The dealer gets the trade in at a bargain basement price,
the consumer gets ripped off because they've seen in print what their
equipment is worth.


Dave,

Don't worry, Brian lies or lies by omission every single time he posts.

Here is what Orion *really* says about the speakers.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"

That $1400.00 figure is trade-in value and NOT what anyone would sell them
for dealer or not. In addition the prices are simple guidelines, and are
subject to market variations, etc. A quick check on Ebay will generally
be a good indicator of what the market value is for a given item. Given
that the target audience for the data is a dealer here is what Orion says
about the prices published.

"Definition of price catagories

Used Retail value of used equipment representing the current open market
price for a specific product or fair market value. The used price reflects
what a product can be resold for within 30 days. This information has been
determined by national dealer surveys.

Mint (wholesale) Value paid to the customer if the unit is in
excellent working order and appearance.

Average (wholesale) Average value paid to the customer for a product

MSRP Manufacturer's Suggested Selling Price. This value represents the
most recent manufacturer's suggested selling price. It does not represent
any discounts applied."

So you see, Brian is just a lying troll.

r

PS. Thanks to Orion Bluebook for providing these prices.

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


  #14   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION wrote in
ws.com:

On 26/10/03 6:38, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple.


Bluebook says:
-------------

http://www.orionbluebook.com/orion/company/faq.htm


"The used prices are derived from dealer surveys gathered nationwide.*
Dealers are asked to provide the "selling price" and "days to sell".*

The
used price is then calculated based on what an average store could sell

the
product for in 30 days or less.
*
The price has proven to be an accurate reflection of the
actual marketplace"

Therefore the bluebook price documents ACTUAL SALES and your complaint

is
rejected.



Brian,

You can reject all you want, but the fact of the matter is you are lying
as the price you quoted was NOT the used price. It was the trade-in value
or what a dealer would purchase the item for outright.


r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


  #15   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION wrote in
ws.com:

On 26/10/03 6:38, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple.


Bluebook says:
-------------

http://www.orionbluebook.com/orion/company/faq.htm


"The used prices are derived from dealer surveys gathered nationwide.*
Dealers are asked to provide the "selling price" and "days to sell".*

The
used price is then calculated based on what an average store could sell

the
product for in 30 days or less.
*
The price has proven to be an accurate reflection of the
actual marketplace"

Therefore the bluebook price documents ACTUAL SALES and your complaint

is
rejected.



Brian,

You can reject all you want, but the fact of the matter is you are lying
as the price you quoted was NOT the used price. It was the trade-in value
or what a dealer would purchase the item for outright.


r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.




  #16   Report Post  
jav
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the person
buying them).

Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"




  #17   Report Post  
jav
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the person
buying them).

Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"




  #18   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"jav" wrote in news:T1Rmb.35735$HS4.126374
@attbi_s01:

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used

equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't

recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were

advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the

person
buying them).


I quite agree and the whole point is that is what one company reports and
is subject to a variey of conditions including errors. I find it odd that
a 3 YO speaker would be listed at 1/3 of its MSRP. 1/2 is closer to a
realistic price. I have emailed Orion and told them about errors before
and they checked and indeed it was an error and they fixed it. You might
consider doing that.

Bottom line is that while the Orion is better than nothing, it is still
just a recommended guideline.

One also has to be careful about how the original manufacturer sold their
speakers. If the coompany sold them singly and not in pairs, the Orion
prices will be off by at least 50%.

Here is a listing that I am familiar with.

"MCINTOSH
SPK, XRT- 22 OAK/WALNUT

Description: 3-WAY, (2)12" WOOFERS, 8" MIDRANGE, (23)1" TWEETERS

Manufacture Years: 1986 - 1993

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $4,600.00
USED: $1,700.00
Wholesale
Mint: $1,100.00
Average: $750.00"

$1700 is an insanely cheap price if one thinks that is a price per pair.
It is not even close to real world prices.

Even at $3400 per pair, the valuation is off by $800 to $1000. I can cite
other examples but why bother.

I look at it this way, even the most casual reader knows the BMC is a
troll and lies with nearly every posting. He even makes up prices for
equipment that isn't listed in the BB. On the plus side he/she/it creates
a lot of attention for the item and helps sell it. On the minus side, he
intimidates the hell out of people who might list something here. I think
a BMC FAQ should be posted every few weeks that factually addresses BMC
anti-social behavior.


r




Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"








--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


  #19   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"jav" wrote in news:T1Rmb.35735$HS4.126374
@attbi_s01:

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used

equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't

recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were

advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the

person
buying them).


I quite agree and the whole point is that is what one company reports and
is subject to a variey of conditions including errors. I find it odd that
a 3 YO speaker would be listed at 1/3 of its MSRP. 1/2 is closer to a
realistic price. I have emailed Orion and told them about errors before
and they checked and indeed it was an error and they fixed it. You might
consider doing that.

Bottom line is that while the Orion is better than nothing, it is still
just a recommended guideline.

One also has to be careful about how the original manufacturer sold their
speakers. If the coompany sold them singly and not in pairs, the Orion
prices will be off by at least 50%.

Here is a listing that I am familiar with.

"MCINTOSH
SPK, XRT- 22 OAK/WALNUT

Description: 3-WAY, (2)12" WOOFERS, 8" MIDRANGE, (23)1" TWEETERS

Manufacture Years: 1986 - 1993

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $4,600.00
USED: $1,700.00
Wholesale
Mint: $1,100.00
Average: $750.00"

$1700 is an insanely cheap price if one thinks that is a price per pair.
It is not even close to real world prices.

Even at $3400 per pair, the valuation is off by $800 to $1000. I can cite
other examples but why bother.

I look at it this way, even the most casual reader knows the BMC is a
troll and lies with nearly every posting. He even makes up prices for
equipment that isn't listed in the BB. On the plus side he/she/it creates
a lot of attention for the item and helps sell it. On the minus side, he
intimidates the hell out of people who might list something here. I think
a BMC FAQ should be posted every few weeks that factually addresses BMC
anti-social behavior.


r




Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"








--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


  #20   Report Post  
Ken Drescher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey guys,

Keep in mind the only reason McCarty incorrectly quotes from the Bluebook is to
start anger and arguments or basically harassment to honest users of RAM. It
has nothing to do with the evaluation of audio pricing.

I think we have a very sad and lonely obese man sitting at a computer searching
for attention. He also just happens to have a tie in with audio. His initials
BM are very important, they stand for his purpose in life. He sh-ts all over
people.


"jav" wrote in news:T1Rmb.35735$HS4.126374
@attbi_s01:

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used

equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't

recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were

advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the

person
buying them).


I quite agree and the whole point is that is what one company reports and
is subject to a variey of conditions including errors. I find it odd that
a 3 YO speaker would be listed at 1/3 of its MSRP. 1/2 is closer to a
realistic price. I have emailed Orion and told them about errors before
and they checked and indeed it was an error and they fixed it. You might
consider doing that.

Bottom line is that while the Orion is better than nothing, it is still
just a recommended guideline.

One also has to be careful about how the original manufacturer sold their
speakers. If the coompany sold them singly and not in pairs, the Orion
prices will be off by at least 50%.

Here is a listing that I am familiar with.

"MCINTOSH
SPK, XRT- 22 OAK/WALNUT

Description: 3-WAY, (2)12" WOOFERS, 8" MIDRANGE, (23)1" TWEETERS

Manufacture Years: 1986 - 1993

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $4,600.00
USED: $1,700.00
Wholesale
Mint: $1,100.00
Average: $750.00"

$1700 is an insanely cheap price if one thinks that is a price per pair.
It is not even close to real world prices.

Even at $3400 per pair, the valuation is off by $800 to $1000. I can cite
other examples but why bother.

I look at it this way, even the most casual reader knows the BMC is a
troll and lies with nearly every posting. He even makes up prices for
equipment that isn't listed in the BB. On the plus side he/she/it creates
a lot of attention for the item and helps sell it. On the minus side, he
intimidates the hell out of people who might list something here. I think
a BMC FAQ should be posted every few weeks that factually addresses BMC
anti-social behavior.


r




Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"








--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.










Pa href=http://members.aol.com/KDresch/audio.net.htmlaudio.net/a, Used
Audio ShopPBrands: Marantz, Pioneer, Kenwood, Advent, Apt, JBL, Technics,
Magnepan, Harman Kardon, AR and many others.P100% Customer Satisfaction
Guaranteed since 1995.



  #21   Report Post  
Ken Drescher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey guys,

Keep in mind the only reason McCarty incorrectly quotes from the Bluebook is to
start anger and arguments or basically harassment to honest users of RAM. It
has nothing to do with the evaluation of audio pricing.

I think we have a very sad and lonely obese man sitting at a computer searching
for attention. He also just happens to have a tie in with audio. His initials
BM are very important, they stand for his purpose in life. He sh-ts all over
people.


"jav" wrote in news:T1Rmb.35735$HS4.126374
@attbi_s01:

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used

equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't

recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were

advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the

person
buying them).


I quite agree and the whole point is that is what one company reports and
is subject to a variey of conditions including errors. I find it odd that
a 3 YO speaker would be listed at 1/3 of its MSRP. 1/2 is closer to a
realistic price. I have emailed Orion and told them about errors before
and they checked and indeed it was an error and they fixed it. You might
consider doing that.

Bottom line is that while the Orion is better than nothing, it is still
just a recommended guideline.

One also has to be careful about how the original manufacturer sold their
speakers. If the coompany sold them singly and not in pairs, the Orion
prices will be off by at least 50%.

Here is a listing that I am familiar with.

"MCINTOSH
SPK, XRT- 22 OAK/WALNUT

Description: 3-WAY, (2)12" WOOFERS, 8" MIDRANGE, (23)1" TWEETERS

Manufacture Years: 1986 - 1993

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $4,600.00
USED: $1,700.00
Wholesale
Mint: $1,100.00
Average: $750.00"

$1700 is an insanely cheap price if one thinks that is a price per pair.
It is not even close to real world prices.

Even at $3400 per pair, the valuation is off by $800 to $1000. I can cite
other examples but why bother.

I look at it this way, even the most casual reader knows the BMC is a
troll and lies with nearly every posting. He even makes up prices for
equipment that isn't listed in the BB. On the plus side he/she/it creates
a lot of attention for the item and helps sell it. On the minus side, he
intimidates the hell out of people who might list something here. I think
a BMC FAQ should be posted every few weeks that factually addresses BMC
anti-social behavior.


r




Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"








--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.










Pa href=http://members.aol.com/KDresch/audio.net.htmlaudio.net/a, Used
Audio ShopPBrands: Marantz, Pioneer, Kenwood, Advent, Apt, JBL, Technics,
Magnepan, Harman Kardon, AR and many others.P100% Customer Satisfaction
Guaranteed since 1995.

  #22   Report Post  
Dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:46:34 -0000, Rich Andrews
wrote:

OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION wrote in
ews.com:

On 26/10/03 6:38, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple.


Bluebook says:
-------------

http://www.orionbluebook.com/orion/company/faq.htm


"The used prices are derived from dealer surveys gathered nationwide.*
Dealers are asked to provide the "selling price" and "days to sell".*

The
used price is then calculated based on what an average store could sell

the
product for in 30 days or less.
*
The price has proven to be an accurate reflection of the
actual marketplace"

Therefore the bluebook price documents ACTUAL SALES and your complaint

is
rejected.



Brian,

You can reject all you want, but the fact of the matter is you are lying
as the price you quoted was NOT the used price. It was the trade-in value
or what a dealer would purchase the item for outright.


Brian,
I know that this is not always the case. I used to own a small
company and one year we listed an amp in the Audio Equipment
Directory. Never made one, even a prototype. Somehow, the blue book
had prices for these published shortly thereafter. So no matter what
they say, I believe a lot of it is BS.

Dave

  #23   Report Post  
Dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:46:34 -0000, Rich Andrews
wrote:

OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION wrote in
ews.com:

On 26/10/03 6:38, in article ,
"Dave" wrote:

Please provide documentation where there was even one sale at that
price. Or even double that. Or show where there is a pair for sale
now at that price. Or double. Or even triple.


Bluebook says:
-------------

http://www.orionbluebook.com/orion/company/faq.htm


"The used prices are derived from dealer surveys gathered nationwide.*
Dealers are asked to provide the "selling price" and "days to sell".*

The
used price is then calculated based on what an average store could sell

the
product for in 30 days or less.
*
The price has proven to be an accurate reflection of the
actual marketplace"

Therefore the bluebook price documents ACTUAL SALES and your complaint

is
rejected.



Brian,

You can reject all you want, but the fact of the matter is you are lying
as the price you quoted was NOT the used price. It was the trade-in value
or what a dealer would purchase the item for outright.


Brian,
I know that this is not always the case. I used to own a small
company and one year we listed an amp in the Audio Equipment
Directory. Never made one, even a prototype. Somehow, the blue book
had prices for these published shortly thereafter. So no matter what
they say, I believe a lot of it is BS.

Dave

  #26   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 28/10/03 4:38, in article , "Alex
Rodriguez" wrote:

Actually, he lists the price that a dealer will typically offer you if
you try to trade in your equipment. For a private sale, you should not
expect to get retail prices for your used equipment.


Of course not. The retail prices are for dealers who have performed
professional services prior to sale; inspection and testing, and are
required by law to provide a warranty.

The lowest bluebook sales price is most appropriately used between private
sellers, where "caveat emptor" is the order of the day.

Scammers like drescher and Ted Rearend audio offer no services and yet
expect top dollar for their used crapola. Fat chance!


  #27   Report Post  
OFFICIAL RAM BLUEBOOK VALUATION
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 28/10/03 4:38, in article , "Alex
Rodriguez" wrote:

Actually, he lists the price that a dealer will typically offer you if
you try to trade in your equipment. For a private sale, you should not
expect to get retail prices for your used equipment.


Of course not. The retail prices are for dealers who have performed
professional services prior to sale; inspection and testing, and are
required by law to provide a warranty.

The lowest bluebook sales price is most appropriately used between private
sellers, where "caveat emptor" is the order of the day.

Scammers like drescher and Ted Rearend audio offer no services and yet
expect top dollar for their used crapola. Fat chance!


  #28   Report Post  
Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

McFarty is blowing smoke again. I can tell he's never worked retail new or
used hifi. He's lying or misinformed like always. The Orion is a scam by
and for dealers. You want to know what a piece is worth? Go to eBay,
search for the exact piece you are looking for (or the closest model with
the same features). Then go to the left menu bar and click on completed
items. That's the true test of what people in the real world are willing to
pay. The only exception being a high demand piece that are in short supply.
Ken's Mac pieces come to mind (mmmm, Mac goodness, tasty.....)

Remember too, dealers are not required by law to do squat, test, repair or
bring something to spec (at least in most of the US, I believe in parts of
Europe and Asia that isn't the case). It's just sound business sense. If
you **** a few people off, it doesn't take long for people to realize you
run a shoddy business. Remember also that stores are not required to accept
returned stuff either.

Used gear is like a used car (look on the window of a used a car at a lot,
you'll notice a warranty sticker that is required by law, and 99% of the
time it says AS IS! No warranty), you pay more from a dealer, but you can
and often do get a better deal from a private party. There are exceptions
to this rule, but not many.

Oh well, at least he's funny!


  #29   Report Post  
Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
 
Posts: n/a
Default

McFarty is blowing smoke again. I can tell he's never worked retail new or
used hifi. He's lying or misinformed like always. The Orion is a scam by
and for dealers. You want to know what a piece is worth? Go to eBay,
search for the exact piece you are looking for (or the closest model with
the same features). Then go to the left menu bar and click on completed
items. That's the true test of what people in the real world are willing to
pay. The only exception being a high demand piece that are in short supply.
Ken's Mac pieces come to mind (mmmm, Mac goodness, tasty.....)

Remember too, dealers are not required by law to do squat, test, repair or
bring something to spec (at least in most of the US, I believe in parts of
Europe and Asia that isn't the case). It's just sound business sense. If
you **** a few people off, it doesn't take long for people to realize you
run a shoddy business. Remember also that stores are not required to accept
returned stuff either.

Used gear is like a used car (look on the window of a used a car at a lot,
you'll notice a warranty sticker that is required by law, and 99% of the
time it says AS IS! No warranty), you pay more from a dealer, but you can
and often do get a better deal from a private party. There are exceptions
to this rule, but not many.

Oh well, at least he's funny!


  #34   Report Post  
HighEndAudio.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No more true words have been spoken. Brian is a sick fool and the karmic
cycle will bite him in the ass badly when it's his turn in life to try and
do something of benefit to himself. Meanwhile, he simply is to be ignored
or ridiculed as to your preference.

Ted

"Ken Drescher" wrote in message
...
Hey guys,

Keep in mind the only reason McCarty incorrectly quotes from the Bluebook

is to
start anger and arguments or basically harassment to honest users of RAM.

It
has nothing to do with the evaluation of audio pricing.

I think we have a very sad and lonely obese man sitting at a computer

searching
for attention. He also just happens to have a tie in with audio. His

initials
BM are very important, they stand for his purpose in life. He sh-ts all

over
people.


"jav" wrote in news:T1Rmb.35735$HS4.126374
@attbi_s01:

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used

equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't

recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were

advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the

person
buying them).


I quite agree and the whole point is that is what one company reports and
is subject to a variey of conditions including errors. I find it odd

that
a 3 YO speaker would be listed at 1/3 of its MSRP. 1/2 is closer to a
realistic price. I have emailed Orion and told them about errors before
and they checked and indeed it was an error and they fixed it. You might
consider doing that.

Bottom line is that while the Orion is better than nothing, it is still
just a recommended guideline.

One also has to be careful about how the original manufacturer sold their
speakers. If the coompany sold them singly and not in pairs, the Orion
prices will be off by at least 50%.

Here is a listing that I am familiar with.

"MCINTOSH
SPK, XRT- 22 OAK/WALNUT

Description: 3-WAY, (2)12" WOOFERS, 8" MIDRANGE, (23)1" TWEETERS

Manufacture Years: 1986 - 1993

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $4,600.00
USED: $1,700.00
Wholesale
Mint: $1,100.00
Average: $750.00"

$1700 is an insanely cheap price if one thinks that is a price per pair.
It is not even close to real world prices.

Even at $3400 per pair, the valuation is off by $800 to $1000. I can

cite
other examples but why bother.

I look at it this way, even the most casual reader knows the BMC is a
troll and lies with nearly every posting. He even makes up prices for
equipment that isn't listed in the BB. On the plus side he/she/it

creates
a lot of attention for the item and helps sell it. On the minus side, he
intimidates the hell out of people who might list something here. I

think
a BMC FAQ should be posted every few weeks that factually addresses BMC
anti-social behavior.


r




Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for

sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"







--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.










Pa href=http://members.aol.com/KDresch/audio.net.htmlaudio.net/a,

Used
Audio ShopPBrands: Marantz, Pioneer, Kenwood, Advent, Apt, JBL,

Technics,
Magnepan, Harman Kardon, AR and many others.P100% Customer Satisfaction
Guaranteed since 1995.



  #35   Report Post  
HighEndAudio.com
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No more true words have been spoken. Brian is a sick fool and the karmic
cycle will bite him in the ass badly when it's his turn in life to try and
do something of benefit to himself. Meanwhile, he simply is to be ignored
or ridiculed as to your preference.

Ted

"Ken Drescher" wrote in message
...
Hey guys,

Keep in mind the only reason McCarty incorrectly quotes from the Bluebook

is to
start anger and arguments or basically harassment to honest users of RAM.

It
has nothing to do with the evaluation of audio pricing.

I think we have a very sad and lonely obese man sitting at a computer

searching
for attention. He also just happens to have a tie in with audio. His

initials
BM are very important, they stand for his purpose in life. He sh-ts all

over
people.


"jav" wrote in news:T1Rmb.35735$HS4.126374
@attbi_s01:

I happen to own Magnepan speakers (1.6QR's) and I follow the used

equipment
newsgroups fairly closely.

I would point out that the "USED: $3100" price is ludicrous. I can't

recall
ever
seeing a pair of MG-20's under $4500. If an excellent pair were

advertised
on Audiogon for $3100 it would be sold in hours (and I might be the

person
buying them).


I quite agree and the whole point is that is what one company reports and
is subject to a variey of conditions including errors. I find it odd

that
a 3 YO speaker would be listed at 1/3 of its MSRP. 1/2 is closer to a
realistic price. I have emailed Orion and told them about errors before
and they checked and indeed it was an error and they fixed it. You might
consider doing that.

Bottom line is that while the Orion is better than nothing, it is still
just a recommended guideline.

One also has to be careful about how the original manufacturer sold their
speakers. If the coompany sold them singly and not in pairs, the Orion
prices will be off by at least 50%.

Here is a listing that I am familiar with.

"MCINTOSH
SPK, XRT- 22 OAK/WALNUT

Description: 3-WAY, (2)12" WOOFERS, 8" MIDRANGE, (23)1" TWEETERS

Manufacture Years: 1986 - 1993

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $4,600.00
USED: $1,700.00
Wholesale
Mint: $1,100.00
Average: $750.00"

$1700 is an insanely cheap price if one thinks that is a price per pair.
It is not even close to real world prices.

Even at $3400 per pair, the valuation is off by $800 to $1000. I can

cite
other examples but why bother.

I look at it this way, even the most casual reader knows the BMC is a
troll and lies with nearly every posting. He even makes up prices for
equipment that isn't listed in the BB. On the plus side he/she/it

creates
a lot of attention for the item and helps sell it. On the minus side, he
intimidates the hell out of people who might list something here. I

think
a BMC FAQ should be posted every few weeks that factually addresses BMC
anti-social behavior.


r




Regarding this thread, too bad there isn't a spam filter for

sociopaths.

"MAGNEPAN
SPK, MG-20/R 3-WAY

Description: 880 SQ" PLANAR-MAGNETIC, 48x3" MID, 60x1/8" RIB TWEETER

Manufacture Years: 1992 - 2000
Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $9,200.00
USED: $3,100.00
Wholesale
Mint: $2,100.00
Average: $1,400.00"







--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.










Pa href=http://members.aol.com/KDresch/audio.net.htmlaudio.net/a,

Used
Audio ShopPBrands: Marantz, Pioneer, Kenwood, Advent, Apt, JBL,

Technics,
Magnepan, Harman Kardon, AR and many others.P100% Customer Satisfaction
Guaranteed since 1995.





  #38   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex Rodriguez wrote in news:bnk54h$oo1$1
@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu:

In article om,
says...


On 28/10/03 4:38, in article ,

"Alex
Rodriguez" wrote:

Actually, he lists the price that a dealer will typically offer you if
you try to trade in your equipment. For a private sale, you should

not
expect to get retail prices for your used equipment.


Of course not. The retail prices are for dealers who have performed
professional services prior to sale; inspection and testing, and are
required by law to provide a warranty.

The lowest bluebook sales price is most appropriately used between

private
sellers, where "caveat emptor" is the order of the day.


I don't think the lowest is always appropriate, but somewhere between

the
lowest and the highest would be fair. It is up to the seller and buyer
to come to an agreement. That is also why it would be fair to list all
of the blue book prices, not just the lowest, when quoting the book.
--------------
Alex




Alex,

Let say you have a McIntosh C11 preamp.

Here is what orion says.

"MCINTOSH
PRE, C- 11 VACUUM TUBE STEREO

Description:

Manufacture Years: 1961 - 1963

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $210.00
USED: $800.00
Wholesale
Mint: $500.00
Average: $300.00"

If you owned the preamp and wanted to sell it, how much money would you
like to receive from the sale of that preamp?

210?
300?
500?
800?
900?

Keep in mind that a C11's have been known to sell routinely for $900.00 on
ebay. What price would you ask for it? You bought the item used in 1972
for $55.00.



r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


  #39   Report Post  
Rich Andrews
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex Rodriguez wrote in news:bnk54h$oo1$1
@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu:

In article om,
says...


On 28/10/03 4:38, in article ,

"Alex
Rodriguez" wrote:

Actually, he lists the price that a dealer will typically offer you if
you try to trade in your equipment. For a private sale, you should

not
expect to get retail prices for your used equipment.


Of course not. The retail prices are for dealers who have performed
professional services prior to sale; inspection and testing, and are
required by law to provide a warranty.

The lowest bluebook sales price is most appropriately used between

private
sellers, where "caveat emptor" is the order of the day.


I don't think the lowest is always appropriate, but somewhere between

the
lowest and the highest would be fair. It is up to the seller and buyer
to come to an agreement. That is also why it would be fair to list all
of the blue book prices, not just the lowest, when quoting the book.
--------------
Alex




Alex,

Let say you have a McIntosh C11 preamp.

Here is what orion says.

"MCINTOSH
PRE, C- 11 VACUUM TUBE STEREO

Description:

Manufacture Years: 1961 - 1963

Additional Information:

Click here for a definition of Bluebook prices.
Retail
MSRP: $210.00
USED: $800.00
Wholesale
Mint: $500.00
Average: $300.00"

If you owned the preamp and wanted to sell it, how much money would you
like to receive from the sale of that preamp?

210?
300?
500?
800?
900?

Keep in mind that a C11's have been known to sell routinely for $900.00 on
ebay. What price would you ask for it? You bought the item used in 1972
for $55.00.



r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.


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