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#1
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears.
Are there any hifalutin' tricks to creating a more authentic stereo field from a mono source that's also mono compatible? Thanks for all input. |
#2
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
The principle of running the signal through a phase shifter, then adding and
subtracting the phase-shifted signal from the unmodified signal, was used for many years. Orban made a device that did this (I have one if you want to buy it), but you'd think it would be part of any modern signal-processing software. Because the phase-shifted component is out of phase on the faux-stereo channels, they are inherently mono-compatible. Adding synthetic ambience from a well-designed hall synthesizer (AHEM!) can give a very pleasant sense of space and spread. Though some of the added ambience will cancel when the channels are summed, the process is not truly mono-compatible. |
#4
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
...some of the added ambience will cancel when the channels are summed, the process is not truly mono-compatible. The loss of some of the extra ambience when the channels are summed to mono is usually a good thing. -in fact, compete removal of the added ambience may give the best mono results for some types of material. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
In article ,
wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Are there any hifalutin' tricks to creating a more authentic stereo field from a mono source that's also mono compatible? Try the Orban stereo synthesizers, which are comb filter devices. They provide a wide sense of space, which is not always a good thing, but can be useful when building up a mix from mono tracks, and they collapse down to mono nicely. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/30/2014 3:30 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 12/30/2014 7:16 PM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Sow's ear /= Silk purse The Orban stereo synthesizer did a pretty good job of fooling listeners in the early days of stereo broadcast. I wonder if there's an app for that. It works by dividing the source into frequency bands and throwing them left and right. It's more complex than bass on the left, treble on the right, and it's 100% mono compatible because it doesn't muck with the left/right phase. A bunch of years ago I experimented with impulse functions that would do just that. One can use Sound Forge's acoustic mirror to create all sorts of impulse functions. Anyway, as I recall, I made a long sweep and cut it up with the amplitude modulation function, then created left and right impulses from that. Twas totally mono compatible. Been a long time since I played with this stuff so the details of exactly what I did are a bit fuzzy. == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#7
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
Ron C wrote:
On 12/30/2014 3:30 PM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 12/30/2014 7:16 PM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Sow's ear /= Silk purse The Orban stereo synthesizer did a pretty good job of fooling listeners in the early days of stereo broadcast. I wonder if there's an app for that. It works by dividing the source into frequency bands and throwing them left and right. It's more complex than bass on the left, treble on the right, and it's 100% mono compatible because it doesn't muck with the left/right phase. A bunch of years ago I experimented with impulse functions that would do just that. One can use Sound Forge's acoustic mirror to create all sorts of impulse functions. Anyway, as I recall, I made a long sweep and cut it up with the amplitude modulation function, then created left and right impulses from that. Twas totally mono compatible. Been a long time since I played with this stuff so the details of exactly what I did are a bit fuzzy. == Later... Ron Capik I wrote a program to compute the Hilbert transform* of a mono signal. Add delay and you get... something. *a fixed, 90-degree phase shift. You would not confuse the result with ambiance. It would sum to the 45 degree shifted signal in mono. -- Les Cargill |
#8
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/30/2014 9:07 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
Ron C wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:30 PM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 12/30/2014 7:16 PM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Sow's ear /= Silk purse The Orban stereo synthesizer did a pretty good job of fooling listeners in the early days of stereo broadcast. I wonder if there's an app for that. It works by dividing the source into frequency bands and throwing them left and right. It's more complex than bass on the left, treble on the right, and it's 100% mono compatible because it doesn't muck with the left/right phase. A bunch of years ago I experimented with impulse functions that would do just that. One can use Sound Forge's acoustic mirror to create all sorts of impulse functions. Anyway, as I recall, I made a long sweep and cut it up with the amplitude modulation function, then created left and right impulses from that. Twas totally mono compatible. Been a long time since I played with this stuff so the details of exactly what I did are a bit fuzzy. == Later... Ron Capik I wrote a program to compute the Hilbert transform* of a mono signal. Add delay and you get... something. *a fixed, 90-degree phase shift. You would not confuse the result with ambiance. It would sum to the 45 degree shifted signal in mono. OK, I wrote my own program, an extended version of acoustic mirror that allowed me a bit more source material flexibility. I also played with the Hilbert transform but didn't find it all that useful for audio (music) processing. [YMMV] Anyway, a convolution reverb plugin with the right impulse can produce useful mono to (pseudo) stereo conversions. [again ...YMMV] == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#9
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
Ron C wrote:
On 12/30/2014 9:07 PM, Les Cargill wrote: Ron C wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:30 PM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 12/30/2014 7:16 PM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Sow's ear /= Silk purse The Orban stereo synthesizer did a pretty good job of fooling listeners in the early days of stereo broadcast. I wonder if there's an app for that. It works by dividing the source into frequency bands and throwing them left and right. It's more complex than bass on the left, treble on the right, and it's 100% mono compatible because it doesn't muck with the left/right phase. A bunch of years ago I experimented with impulse functions that would do just that. One can use Sound Forge's acoustic mirror to create all sorts of impulse functions. Anyway, as I recall, I made a long sweep and cut it up with the amplitude modulation function, then created left and right impulses from that. Twas totally mono compatible. Been a long time since I played with this stuff so the details of exactly what I did are a bit fuzzy. == Later... Ron Capik I wrote a program to compute the Hilbert transform* of a mono signal. Add delay and you get... something. *a fixed, 90-degree phase shift. You would not confuse the result with ambiance. It would sum to the 45 degree shifted signal in mono. OK, I wrote my own program, an extended version of acoustic mirror I thought Acoustic Mirror was just a fancy suite of impulses? Also, Google turned up this: http://www.theromneymarsh.net/history/mirrors.htm Wow. that allowed me a bit more source material flexibility. I also played with the Hilbert transform but didn't find it all that useful for audio (music) processing. [YMMV] Precisely. Anyway, a convolution reverb plugin with the right impulse can produce useful mono to (pseudo) stereo conversions. [again ...YMMV] Yep. == Later... Ron Capik -- Les Cargill |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/30/2014 10:33 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
Ron C wrote: On 12/30/2014 9:07 PM, Les Cargill wrote: Ron C wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:30 PM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 12/30/2014 7:16 PM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Sow's ear /= Silk purse The Orban stereo synthesizer did a pretty good job of fooling listeners in the early days of stereo broadcast. I wonder if there's an app for that. It works by dividing the source into frequency bands and throwing them left and right. It's more complex than bass on the left, treble on the right, and it's 100% mono compatible because it doesn't muck with the left/right phase. A bunch of years ago I experimented with impulse functions that would do just that. One can use Sound Forge's acoustic mirror to create all sorts of impulse functions. Anyway, as I recall, I made a long sweep and cut it up with the amplitude modulation function, then created left and right impulses from that. Twas totally mono compatible. Been a long time since I played with this stuff so the details of exactly what I did are a bit fuzzy. == Later... Ron Capik I wrote a program to compute the Hilbert transform* of a mono signal. Add delay and you get... something. *a fixed, 90-degree phase shift. You would not confuse the result with ambiance. It would sum to the 45 degree shifted signal in mono. OK, I wrote my own program, an extended version of acoustic mirror I thought Acoustic Mirror was just a fancy suite of impulses? Dig a bit deeper and you'll find it also allows you to roll your own impulses. Also, Google turned up this: http://www.theromneymarsh.net/history/mirrors.htm Wow. Side note to that: The large microwave horn that Penzias and Wilson used to find the big bang was also one of those "acoustic mirrors" in that it could easily pick up the sounds of kids in a school playground ~15 miles away. .....snip..... == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
i think it depends what you want from the stereo.
i'm going to give you an easy answer and it may be the most unrealistic of the suggestions above. what it does do is create a wide image. it's just a free plugin with a few controls. there is a slider with haas on one end and comb on the other, a delay and a mix parameter. you can dial is subtle to extreme in about 2 seconds. i think it's made my jesus sonic but there are probably tons of them. i'm kinda over most of the high end a high priced plugins these days. chris |
#12
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
Ron C wrote:
On 12/30/2014 10:33 PM, Les Cargill wrote: Ron C wrote: On 12/30/2014 9:07 PM, Les Cargill wrote: Ron C wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:30 PM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 12/30/2014 7:16 PM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Sow's ear /= Silk purse The Orban stereo synthesizer did a pretty good job of fooling listeners in the early days of stereo broadcast. I wonder if there's an app for that. It works by dividing the source into frequency bands and throwing them left and right. It's more complex than bass on the left, treble on the right, and it's 100% mono compatible because it doesn't muck with the left/right phase. A bunch of years ago I experimented with impulse functions that would do just that. One can use Sound Forge's acoustic mirror to create all sorts of impulse functions. Anyway, as I recall, I made a long sweep and cut it up with the amplitude modulation function, then created left and right impulses from that. Twas totally mono compatible. Been a long time since I played with this stuff so the details of exactly what I did are a bit fuzzy. == Later... Ron Capik I wrote a program to compute the Hilbert transform* of a mono signal. Add delay and you get... something. *a fixed, 90-degree phase shift. You would not confuse the result with ambiance. It would sum to the 45 degree shifted signal in mono. OK, I wrote my own program, an extended version of acoustic mirror I thought Acoustic Mirror was just a fancy suite of impulses? Dig a bit deeper and you'll find it also allows you to roll your own impulses. That would make sense. It would also have been easier than the way I did it, but hey.... science! Also, Google turned up this: http://www.theromneymarsh.net/history/mirrors.htm Wow. Side note to that: The large microwave horn that Penzias and Wilson used to find the big bang was also one of those "acoustic mirrors" in that it could easily pick up the sounds of kids in a school playground ~15 miles away. Sweet. .....snip..... == Later... Ron Capik -- Les Cargill |
#13
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 31/12/2014 4:33 p.m., Les Cargill wrote:
I thought Acoustic Mirror was just a fancy suite of impulses? There is a convolution plug-in called Acoustic Mirror from Sony that comes with, and has available extra, sets of impulses. geoff |
#14
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
Ron C wrote:
[...] The large microwave horn that Penzias and Wilson used to find the big bang was also one of those "acoustic mirrors" in that it could easily pick up the sounds of kids in a school playground ~15 miles away. You don't need anything elaborate for that, have you ever heard the din that kids can make? -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk |
#15
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/30/2014 9:16 AM, wrote:
I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Are there any hifalutin' tricks to creating a more authentic stereo field from a mono source that's also mono compatible? Thanks for all input. Here's a link to a free VST plug-in to try. Transforms a mono track into a stereo track using mid/side coding technique. http://www.voxengo.com/product/stereotouch/ Tim Sprout |
#16
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
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#17
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
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#18
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/31/2014 3:22 PM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
In article , writes: There is a convolution plug-in called Acoustic Mirror from Sony that comes with, and has available extra, sets of impulses. I successfully downloaded all the available impulses, but don't see any instructions for storing them. Looking through various plugin directories, I don't see anything called Acoustic Mirror or Impulses. Where are they supposed to reside? You can put them any place you want. I have my impulses in E:\Audio Tool Box\_Impulse World\_Acoustic Mirror\ ... There's a pull down window labeled "Impulse: " and on the far right a "Browse" button. Browse to where ever you saved your impulse [ *.sfi ] files and pick one. Everything else should start falling into place from there. == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#19
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 09:38:32 -0900, Tim Sprout
wrote: On 12/30/2014 9:16 AM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Are there any hifalutin' tricks to creating a more authentic stereo field from a mono source that's also mono compatible? Thanks for all input. Here's a link to a free VST plug-in to try. Transforms a mono track into a stereo track using mid/side coding technique. http://www.voxengo.com/product/stereotouch/ Tim Sprout I couldn't get Audition 3 & 6 to recognize it. Also Wavelab 6 or Audacity. md5: 43535aae0300405b044575b7fdf69b1e |
#21
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/31/2014 3:16 PM, Gray_Wolf wrote:
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 09:38:32 -0900, Tim Sprout wrote: On 12/30/2014 9:16 AM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Are there any hifalutin' tricks to creating a more authentic stereo field from a mono source that's also mono compatible? Thanks for all input. Here's a link to a free VST plug-in to try. Transforms a mono track into a stereo track using mid/side coding technique. http://www.voxengo.com/product/stereotouch/ Tim Sprout I couldn't get Audition 3 & 6 to recognize it. Also Wavelab 6 or Audacity. md5: 43535aae0300405b044575b7fdf69b1e Works for me in Audition CS6 by copying the Stereo Touch.dll file into C:\Program Files (x86)\VSTPlugins, then scanning for it in Audition under: Effects-Audio Plug-ins Manager. Is a VST plug-in (not VSTi or VST3). Tim Sprout |
#22
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 12/31/2014 7:58 PM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
In article , writes: You can put them any place you want. I have my impulses in E:\Audio Tool Box\_Impulse World\_Acoustic Mirror\ ... There's a pull down window labeled "Impulse: " and on the far right a "Browse" button. Browse to where ever you saved your impulse [ *.sfi ] files and pick one. Everything else should start falling into place from there. I'm not finding the pulldown or browse button when in the Acoustic Mirror dialogue. Orlando I dropped a picture in my photobucket http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/Ed...1cc2d.jpg.html or, tiny_url http://tinyurl.com/l2kbmyp == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#23
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 15:59:11 -0900, Tim Sprout
wrote: On 12/31/2014 3:16 PM, Gray_Wolf wrote: On Wed, 31 Dec 2014 09:38:32 -0900, Tim Sprout wrote: On 12/30/2014 9:16 AM, wrote: I've tried phase inversion, adding mild reverb and then using a stereo expansion tool. Both provide some degree of a stereo effect, though with phase inversion if you listen in mono - such as on a mobile phone, the audio disappears. Are there any hifalutin' tricks to creating a more authentic stereo field from a mono source that's also mono compatible? Thanks for all input. Here's a link to a free VST plug-in to try. Transforms a mono track into a stereo track using mid/side coding technique. http://www.voxengo.com/product/stereotouch/ Tim Sprout I couldn't get Audition 3 & 6 to recognize it. Also Wavelab 6 or Audacity. md5: 43535aae0300405b044575b7fdf69b1e Works for me in Audition CS6 by copying the Stereo Touch.dll file into C:\Program Files (x86)\VSTPlugins, then scanning for it in Audition under: Effects-Audio Plug-ins Manager. Is a VST plug-in (not VSTi or VST3). Tim Sprout Thanks. It shows up in the drop-down menu under VST RoomFx Voxengo Stereo Touch. |
#24
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
"Ron C" skrev i en meddelelse
... I dropped a picture in my photobucket That may not be helpful, Orlando is blind as I recall the world. Ron Capik Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#25
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Tricks for creating stereo from mono?
On 1/1/2015 9:44 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
"Ron C" skrev i en meddelelse ... I dropped a picture in my photobucket That may not be helpful, Orlando is blind as I recall the world. Ron Capik Kind regards Peter Larsen Big oops! I'd totally forgotten. Thanks for the reminder Peter. Now I'm not sure how to help beyond this point. Sorry for the miscommunication Orlando. It seems like your user interface is letting you down on this one. == Later... Ron Capik -- |
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