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David Dalton David Dalton is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?

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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

On 2/24/2012 10:23 PM, David Dalton wrote:
What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


Turn off the engine and hoist the sail!


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David Dalton David Dalton is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

In article ,
David Dalton wrote:

What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


I also posted that to sci.engr and other groups and
there have been a couple of interesting replies
there already.

--
David Dalton http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
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Art Vanderlay Art Vanderlay is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

On 25/02/2012 3:43 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/24/2012 10:23 PM, David Dalton wrote:
What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


Turn off the engine and hoist the sail!


issue all fish with ear plugs
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David Dalton David Dalton is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

In article ,
David Dalton wrote:

In article ,
David Dalton wrote:

What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


I also posted that to sci.engr and other groups and
there have been a couple of interesting replies
there already.


I also just posted to sci.military.naval and other groups.

--
David Dalton http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

David Dalton wrote:
In article ,
David Dalton wrote:

What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


I also posted that to sci.engr and other groups and
there have been a couple of interesting replies
there already.


You know multiposting is kind of rude. It breaks a discussion up. It's
clear you have already crossposted, why not just crosspost to all relevant
groups and drop some of the irrelevant ones?

The thing is, while you can reduce the noise from ships by playing with
hull profiles to improve laminar flow and reduce turbulence, and playing
with prop designs to reduce turbulence and cavitation, there is nothing
you can do about sonar noise.

Because... the whole point of sonar is that it's a loud noise.

What you _can_ do is to move the operating frequency of the sonar to
notes that don't bother mammals, and to do that you need to first find
out what really does bother them. Which nobody really is completely
sure about, it seems.
--scott

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[email protected] 0junk4me@nomail.bellsloth.net is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans


On 2012-02-25 (ScottDorsey) said:
It's clear you have already crossposted, why not just crosspost to
all relevant groups and drop some of the irrelevant ones?

i would agree with that. These cross posted threads usually
turn into noise themselves though g.

I'm wondering what his interest is, whether he's just dabbling or he has an
academic interest of some sort. IF the later I'd think he'd
have already cracked a book or two on the subject.

The thing is, while you can reduce the noise from ships by playing
with hull profiles to improve laminar flow and reduce turbulence,
and playing with prop designs to reduce turbulence and cavitation,
there is nothing you can do about sonar noise.
Because... the whole point of sonar is that it's a loud noise.
What you _can_ do is to move the operating frequency of the sonar to
notes that don't bother mammals, and to do that you need to first
find out what really does bother them. Which nobody really is
completely sure about, it seems.


Would agree, and though we might have a bit of knowledge I"d
think that for the most part rec.audio.pro is not the
appropriate group to which to address such queries. But,
in addition to Scott's discussion of sonar and animals the
other question would be if sonar pings at the frequencies
that don't harm the animals are effective at doing the job
sonar is supposed to do. I'm no expert in underwater
acoustics though, and doubt there are few in this newsgroup
grin. Some of the film sound guys who do underwater
shoots might be able to address it a little more
intelligently than a bunch of live sound and studio rats,
but still, i'd say the oceanographers and others might know
a bit more on the subject. Here in this group most of us
have a better grasp of acoustic characteristics of air
grin






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Steve King Steve King is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 2/24/2012 10:23 PM, David Dalton wrote:
What are some strategies for reducing ship, sonar, and
seismic airgun array noise in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


Turn off the engine and hoist the sail!


+1 for that.

Steve King


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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

David Dalton wrote:

What are some strategies for reducing ship


That's probably a fuel efficiency issue.

sonar,


Inherently noisy, the problem with it is that there is no "safe" frequency
range to use considering the wide range of critter sizes.

and
seismic airgun array noise


Not using them comes to mind, but we don't seem to want to stop using
motorcars.

in the oceans in order to
reduce negative effects on marine mammals?


Be frank about your agenda instead, it is meaningful that we should be "good
neighbors" to the other species on the planet.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen






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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

Peter Larsen wrote:
snip

Be frank about your agenda instead, it is meaningful that we should be "good
neighbors" to the other species on the planet.


Did the other creatures tell you that? I'll take "anthropomorphism" for
$400, Alex...

Kind regards

Peter Larsen





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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

wrote:
I'm wondering what his interest is, whether he's just dabbling or he has an
academic interest of some sort. IF the later I'd think he'd
have already cracked a book or two on the subject.


There is an outrageous amount of information on the subject in open
publications from the US Navy. A lot of it has to do with very fancy
propeller designs. Expensive propeller designs, mind you, which is
why you don't see them on merchant marine vessels.

The Navy wants to build ships that aren't audible on passive sonar
receivers. Incidentally, some of the problem with building very quiet
ships is that animals run into them.

Some of the film sound guys who do underwater
shoots might be able to address it a little more
intelligently than a bunch of live sound and studio rats,
but still, i'd say the oceanographers and others might know
a bit more on the subject. Here in this group most of us
have a better grasp of acoustic characteristics of air


It's amazing how the physics are the same. The reason I got interested in
it is because almost all of the research on large phased array microphone
systems is Navy-financed stuff. Beamforming in air is really interesting and
a lot of the ocean work can be applied to it.
--scott

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Dick Pierce[_2_] Dick Pierce[_2_] is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Incidentally, some of the problem with building very quiet
ships is that animals run into them.


Another good reason to nuke the whales.

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

In article ,
Dick Pierce wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Incidentally, some of the problem with building very quiet
ships is that animals run into them.


Another good reason to nuke the whales.


No, no, that's "Wales" you are thinking of.
--scott

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Richard Webb[_3_] Richard Webb[_3_] is offline
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Default reducing ship noise in the oceans

On Mon 2012-Feb-27 11:04, Scott Dorsey writes:
I'm wondering what his interest is, whether he's just dabbling or he has an
academic interest of some sort. IF the later I'd think he'd
have already cracked a book or two on the subject.


There is an outrageous amount of information on the subject in open
publications from the US Navy. A lot of it has to do with very
fancy propeller designs. Expensive propeller designs, mind you,
which is why you don't see them on merchant marine vessels.


iNdeed, I've read some on it over the years.

The Navy wants to build ships that aren't audible on passive sonar
receivers. Incidentally, some of the problem with building very
quiet ships is that animals run into them.


Yep, and that was an assumption I made when i first read
about this way back, as animals that live in the sea would
have to use other senses than vision to move about reliably
and safely.

snip

Here in this group most of us
have a better grasp of acoustic characteristics of air


It's amazing how the physics are the same. The reason I got
interested in it is because almost all of the research on large
phased array microphone systems is Navy-financed stuff. Beamforming

in air is really interesting and a lot of the ocean work can be
applied to it.


INteresting. I knew the USN was financing a bunch of phased array mic research, but hadn't really thought about that
much. Quite interesting, thanks!

Regards,
Richard
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