I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just does
higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some digitial
artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

That is what nailed it on 31 band EQ I borrowed.

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not attenuate
those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the sizzle seems to
be happening.

What are my options, other than buying a 31 band EQ of which I will use 2
sliders?

"Bobby" wrote in news:ddhnc.64103$hR1.17445
@fe2.texas.rr.com:

I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just
does
higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some digitial
artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

That is what nailed it on 31 band EQ I borrowed.

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not attenuate
those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the sizzle seems
to
be happening.

What are my options, other than buying a 31 band EQ of which I will use
2
sliders?




A high quality D-A should clean things up nicely.

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

cool! And THANKS! I figured asking the experts here miught get me some
knowledge I do not have. A google search gave me an avalanche of things to
read, but mostly sales stuff ( I HATE google that way--they should have an "
omit sales and marketing web pages " option in the search ).

I am using a Vox Tonelab, and the artifacts are above the range of the
guitar. ( When I put it through an amp and a 4x12 those fizzies are not
reproduced., er, much

However... I am using the analog outs on the Tonelab, since the SPDIF out
into the Computer directly ALSO puts out that fizzie digital artifact. Hence
the EQ job (and that worked ). Unfortunately I have to give the EQ back

So the Fizzies are coming FROM the Tonelab itself. Not from overloading the
inputs or the sound card.

I think it sounds GREAT when I roll off the high frequencies, which to MY
ears sound like digital artifacts. The fact that they are there at all seems
odd since they go away through a cab--a Guitar speaker is NOT designed to
reproduce that high end above 5-6 k or so , And so why the Tonelab puts them
out seems a flaw. Pod's do too to my ears. A Celestion Vintage 30 has a
frequency response of 70hz to 5khz for instance.

This is really ONLY on the bright High Gain amps and patches.

Lower settings sound warm , clear and great and there is no difference when
EQ'ing THOSE at or above 7k since those artifacts or crackle or whatever we
want to call them are not present.

Now if I took this thing from SPDIF out, to a D/A then into the recorder
that would be good, since I could use the other outputs for other things....

Can you suggest a good D/A box for me to check out Rich? The Tonelab has an
optical out.

Just curious WHY the D/A would clean it up too, I'm new to this.

Gimme a miked 4x12 any day, but at 2 am the neighbors complain, even with
the little half watt Nano head

Thanks again!

Bob



"Rich.Andrews" wrote in message
. 1...
"Bobby" wrote in news:ddhnc.64103$hR1.17445
@fe2.texas.rr.com:

I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just
does
higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some digitial
artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

That is what nailed it on 31 band EQ I borrowed.

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not attenuate
those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the sizzle seems
to
be happening.

What are my options, other than buying a 31 band EQ of which I will use
2
sliders?




A high quality D-A should clean things up nicely.

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Bobby wrote:

I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just does
higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some digitial
artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

That is what nailed it on 31 band EQ I borrowed.

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not attenuate
those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the sizzle seems to
be happening.

What are my options, other than buying a 31 band EQ of which I will use 2
sliders?


What sample rate?

Bobby wrote:

I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just
does higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some
digital artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

Sounds like a mission for a parametric equalizer.

That is what nailed it on 31 band EQ I borrowed.

Which begs the question of where did the sizzle and digital artifacts come
from?

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not
attenuate those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the
sizzle seems to be happening.

You haven't described the whole system. The signal came from someplace,
maybe an existing recording, a broadcast or a microphone. Why not address
the problem closer to the source? If for example you have a mic that sounds
harsh, why not get a better mic?

What are my options, other than buying a 31 band EQ of which I will use
2 sliders?

Since you have a digital recording, why not use digital tools? There are any
number of audio editing programs and accessories for them that include
equalization facilities.

Bobby wrote:

I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just does
higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some digitial
artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

That is what nailed it on 31 band EQ I borrowed.

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not attenuate
those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the sizzle seems to
be happening.

If this is really happening as you describe, you'd probably be better off
spending the money upgrading whatever piece of equipment is really causing
the problem. It might be a bad microphone or a bad A/D converter. Either
way, for the price of a parametric equalizer or some other equalizer, you
could probably get a better mic or a better A/D converter.

What kind of A/D converter are you using right now? Are you using a
consumer-quality sound card that's really intended more for stuff like
playing games and online voice chat? For $400, you can get the M-Audio
Delta 66, which Arny Krueger rates as excellent. Or, for $200, you can
get the Audiophile 2496, also by M-Audio, which may be of comparable
quality (although I haven't used it personally).

If you replace the component that's causing the problem, you may be able
to eliminate the harshness entirely instead of just reducing it with an
EQ. And if you still need to EQ for other reasons, you can do that in
the digital domain...

- Logan

"Bobby" wrote in
:

cool! And THANKS! I figured asking the experts here miught get me some
knowledge I do not have. A google search gave me an avalanche of things
to read, but mostly sales stuff ( I HATE google that way--they should
have an " omit sales and marketing web pages " option in the search ).

I am using a Vox Tonelab, and the artifacts are above the range of the
guitar. ( When I put it through an amp and a 4x12 those fizzies are not
reproduced., er, much

However... I am using the analog outs on the Tonelab, since the SPDIF
out into the Computer directly ALSO puts out that fizzie digital
artifact. Hence the EQ job (and that worked ). Unfortunately I have to
give the EQ back

So the Fizzies are coming FROM the Tonelab itself. Not from overloading
the inputs or the sound card.

I think it sounds GREAT when I roll off the high frequencies, which to
MY ears sound like digital artifacts. The fact that they are there at
all seems odd since they go away through a cab--a Guitar speaker is NOT
designed to reproduce that high end above 5-6 k or so , And so why the
Tonelab puts them out seems a flaw. Pod's do too to my ears. A Celestion
Vintage 30 has a frequency response of 70hz to 5khz for instance.

This is really ONLY on the bright High Gain amps and patches.

Lower settings sound warm , clear and great and there is no difference
when EQ'ing THOSE at or above 7k since those artifacts or crackle or
whatever we want to call them are not present.

Now if I took this thing from SPDIF out, to a D/A then into the recorder
that would be good, since I could use the other outputs for other
things....

Can you suggest a good D/A box for me to check out Rich? The Tonelab has
an optical out.

Just curious WHY the D/A would clean it up too, I'm new to this.

Gimme a miked 4x12 any day, but at 2 am the neighbors complain, even
with the little half watt Nano head

Thanks again!

Bob



The reason why a good DA convertor would clean things up is because as
time goes by things get better. D-A convertors get better, filtering gets
better, and as a result the digital grunge and other anomolies get
lessened. A friend of mine heard the difference in DAs and it ended up
costing him about $3k so that he could get the best he could find. I am
reluctant to make a recommendation. Shop around and see what sounds good.

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

On Sun, 09 May 2004 04:24:05 +0000, Bobby wrote:

cool! And THANKS! I figured asking the experts here miught get me some
knowledge I do not have. A google search gave me an avalanche of things to
read, but mostly sales stuff ( I HATE google that way--they should have an "
omit sales and marketing web pages " option in the search ).

I am using a Vox Tonelab, and the artifacts are above the range of the
guitar. ( When I put it through an amp and a 4x12 those fizzies are not
reproduced., er, much

However... I am using the analog outs on the Tonelab, since the SPDIF out
into the Computer directly ALSO puts out that fizzie digital artifact. Hence
the EQ job (and that worked ). Unfortunately I have to give the EQ back

Are you sure you are clocking the recorder from the Tonelabs SPDIF out?
If the recorder is free running and not locked to the SPDIF in,
it will sound weird and 'fizzy'.

I can easy agree that putting it out through 4x12 improves it. I do the
same rather than use the speaker simulators on most digital fuzz boxes.
Real speakers just seem to do a much better job at filtering out the crap.

If you are having neighbor problems, getting the cab off the
floor, building a little speaker box or chucking a duvet over the cab may
be your best options. I bet that little Zvex amp puts out more than 1/2
watt when it's used in anger though.

Bobby wrote:
I want to know if it is possible to get an EQ that is small and just does
higher frequencies. What I need is an EQ that will cut some digitial
artifacts and sizzle around the 7k through 10k range.

Sure, but it will cost more than a general purpose equalizer.

This is for simple direct recording into a PC, and if I do not attenuate
those frequencies the sound is HARSH, the that is where the sizzle seems to
be happening.

How did it get there in the first place? Wouldn't it be better just to
replace whatever is making the signal harsh, rather than fudge around
trying to hide it?

What are my options, other than buying a 31 band EQ of which I will use 2
sliders?

You can get a filter box that will cost ten times what that cheesy 31 band
EQ is. Note that your cheap 31 band EQ will probably be making things sound
worse in other ways.

Where is this signal coming from and how did it get nasty in the first
place?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bobby wrote:
cool! And THANKS! I figured asking the experts here miught get me some
knowledge I do not have. A google search gave me an avalanche of things to
read, but mostly sales stuff ( I HATE google that way--they should have an "
omit sales and marketing web pages " option in the search ).

I am using a Vox Tonelab, and the artifacts are above the range of the
guitar. ( When I put it through an amp and a 4x12 those fizzies are not
reproduced., er, much

However... I am using the analog outs on the Tonelab, since the SPDIF out
into the Computer directly ALSO puts out that fizzie digital artifact. Hence
the EQ job (and that worked ). Unfortunately I have to give the EQ back

So the Fizzies are coming FROM the Tonelab itself. Not from overloading the
inputs or the sound card.

No, they're coming from the guitar. If you absolutely HAVE to take a
DI from the guitar, you can try a box like the POD which attempts to
model the sound of a cabinet digitally. But half of the sound of an
electric guitar comes from the amp and cabinet and without it, that
sound is not there.

Why not just mike the cabinet with an SM-57?

I think it sounds GREAT when I roll off the high frequencies, which to MY
ears sound like digital artifacts. The fact that they are there at all seems
odd since they go away through a cab--a Guitar speaker is NOT designed to
reproduce that high end above 5-6 k or so , And so why the Tonelab puts them
out seems a flaw. Pod's do too to my ears. A Celestion Vintage 30 has a
frequency response of 70hz to 5khz for instance.

They are there because that's what comes out of a guitar. The reason that
a guitar speaker specifically rolls off that top end is to compensate for
that. The guitar amp, guitar speaker, and guitar pickup together make a
complete system and each part of it is designed to compensate for something
else in the other parts.

Now if I took this thing from SPDIF out, to a D/A then into the recorder
that would be good, since I could use the other outputs for other things....

No, it would still sound like a direct out. Sorry about that. Buy a
mike.

Just curious WHY the D/A would clean it up too, I'm new to this.

If your actual problem was a digital artifact, which it's not, using
better converters will help. But your problem is that you are expecting
a DI'ed guitar feed to sound like a guitar/cabinet system, which it does
not.

Gimme a miked 4x12 any day, but at 2 am the neighbors complain, even with
the little half watt Nano head

That's why cabinet simulation boxes like the Pod exist. They don't sound
as good as the real thing, but they are much quieter.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Well the Tonelab on CERTAIN amp and cabinet settings makes it fizzy, for
clean sounds it is great, for slightly overdrivien sounds it is great....on
the high gain amps it adds a fizz that is not there other wise.

AS a previous Poster said it is my guitar and not to expect a piece of
digitla equipment or DI box to soudn like and amp and feel llike an
amp.....ummm...no. this one DOES sound and feel llike and amp, warm springy
and punchy--- unless you use REALLY high gain-- then it enters some fizzies.
The same fizzies whether or not I use pure analog out or SPDIF or whatever.

It is only at certain high gain amps, and EQ'ing it took it out. So to my
ears it IS the Tonelab producing them.


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Bobby wrote:

How did it get there in the first place? Wouldn't it be better just to
replace whatever is making the signal harsh, rather than fudge around
trying to hide it?

In other words, getting a better D/A is wishful thinking and may or
may not have anything at all to do with your specific problem. Lay
out $3K blindly and you may be no better off. GIGO.

The ToneLab has cab simulator for the patch you're talking about?
Have you tried different options there?

Thanks Gary, Yes I have tried all kinds of option over two weeks.

Actually I LOVE the thing now since trying to olve the fizzies have allowed
me to RALLY play wiht it and listento it., but the fizzies are DEFINITELY
TONELAB produced and guitar independent. The Cabs and amps do not EQ that
high in real life so why would they EQ it out on the TL, see?

I thinkthe fizzies are introduced internally after the cab sim, IMO, but
that is just a guess.

They are at roughly 7khz and just add a harshness, I am going to just buy an
EQ and use that to handle it I think.


The ToneLab has cab simulator for the patch you're talking about?
Have you tried different options there?

"Bobby" wrote in message
...
Well the Tonelab on CERTAIN amp and cabinet settings makes it fizzy, for
clean sounds it is great, for slightly overdrivien sounds it is
great....on
the high gain amps it adds a fizz that is not there other wise.

AS a previous Poster said it is my guitar and not to expect a piece of
digitla equipment or DI box to soudn like and amp and feel llike an
amp.....ummm...no. this one DOES sound and feel llike and amp, warm
springy
and punchy--- unless you use REALLY high gain-- then it enters some
fizzies.
The same fizzies whether or not I use pure analog out or SPDIF or
whatever.

It is only at certain high gain amps, and EQ'ing it took it out. So to my
ears it IS the Tonelab producing them.

Is it possible that the Tonelab at those settings is amplifying
high-frequency hash that your pickups are picking up? It wouldn't be audible
through a real amp, since the speaker doesn't go that high.

Peace,
Paul

Sure I suppose that is possible, but the solution is still the same, and it
does it with ANY guitar I run though it.


"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...

"Bobby" wrote in message
...
Well the Tonelab on CERTAIN amp and cabinet settings makes it fizzy, for
clean sounds it is great, for slightly overdrivien sounds it is
great....on
the high gain amps it adds a fizz that is not there other wise.

AS a previous Poster said it is my guitar and not to expect a piece of
digitla equipment or DI box to soudn like and amp and feel llike an
amp.....ummm...no. this one DOES sound and feel llike and amp, warm
springy
and punchy--- unless you use REALLY high gain-- then it enters some
fizzies.
The same fizzies whether or not I use pure analog out or SPDIF or
whatever.

It is only at certain high gain amps, and EQ'ing it took it out. So to my
ears it IS the Tonelab producing them.

Is it possible that the Tonelab at those settings is amplifying
high-frequency hash that your pickups are picking up? It wouldn't be
audible
through a real amp, since the speaker doesn't go that high.

Peace,
Paul

"Bobby" wrote in message
...
Sure I suppose that is possible, but the solution is still the same, and
it
does it with ANY guitar I run though it.


"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...

"Bobby" wrote in message
...
Well the Tonelab on CERTAIN amp and cabinet settings makes it fizzy,
for
clean sounds it is great, for slightly overdrivien sounds it is
great....on
the high gain amps it adds a fizz that is not there other wise.

AS a previous Poster said it is my guitar and not to expect a piece of
digitla equipment or DI box to soudn like and amp and feel llike an
amp.....ummm...no. this one DOES sound and feel llike and amp, warm
springy
and punchy--- unless you use REALLY high gain-- then it enters some
fizzies.
The same fizzies whether or not I use pure analog out or SPDIF or
whatever.

It is only at certain high gain amps, and EQ'ing it took it out. So to
my
ears it IS the Tonelab producing them.

Is it possible that the Tonelab at those settings is amplifying
high-frequency hash that your pickups are picking up? It wouldn't be
audible
through a real amp, since the speaker doesn't go that high.

Peace,
Paul





Hi,

I use a POD XT and found similar problems.
I played around one day and stuck the output of the XT into a Focurite
Trackmaster, and with very little messing about, got a sound I was really
happy with.

http://www.focusrite.com/index2.html

May be worth a look, and you end up with a usable pre - comp - eq unit...

M.

--
Michael Peel