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#1
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Speaker Break In
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#2
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Speaker Break In
Chu Gai wrote:
Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm All fine, except the drivel about 'electrical burn-in". geoff |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Chu Gai wrote: Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm Most of it is utter ********. A driver does indeed 'loosen up' a bit in the first few hours of use however with most likely the greatest effect in the low bass. See their results for Fs. A little like 'running in' a car engine. There may well be something to it in having an extended 'running in' too including at quite high power levels. Note that running in a car engine is not dissimilar again. Take it easy at first and then carefully run it up and down through its performance range. Graham |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Geoff wrote: Chu Gai wrote: Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm All fine, except the drivel about 'electrical burn-in". Quite ! The idea that capacitors and wire needing 'burn in' is the kind of berserk ******** that's all too common from the audiophools. Graham |
#5
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Speaker Break In
Eeyore wrote:
Geoff wrote: Chu Gai wrote: Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm All fine, except the drivel about 'electrical burn-in". Quite ! The idea that capacitors and wire needing 'burn in' is the kind of berserk ******** that's all too common from the audiophools. Not to mention 'wire and voice-coils'. geoff |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
The temperature of the driver can cause a lot of difference in the stiffness
of the suspension. A voice coil can be quite a heater. I'm not sure I would want to rely on that though. If you have the means to measure Fs accurately, try measuring it after the driver has been in the freezer for a while. The measure it again, after it warms up. James. ) "Chu Gai" wrote in message ups.com... Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
James Lehman wrote: The temperature of the driver can cause a lot of difference in the stiffness of the suspension. A voice coil can be quite a heater. I'm not sure I would want to rely on that though. If you have the means to measure Fs accurately, try measuring it after the driver has been in the freezer for a while. The measure it again, after it warms up. All such measurements should be made at room temp after 'temperature equalisation' Incidentally UK pro-audio louspeaker manufacturer quotes Thiele-Small parameters thus...... Notes 3. Thiele - Small Parameters follow a 300 Watt preconditioning period. http://www.precisiondevices.co.uk/as...ds/super/8.pdf Graham |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
All such measurements should be made at room temp after 'temperature
equalisation' Incidentally UK pro-audio louspeaker manufacturer quotes Thiele-Small parameters thus...... Notes 3. Thiele - Small Parameters follow a 300 Watt preconditioning period. http://www.precisiondevices.co.uk/as...ds/super/8.pdf Graham Agreed. But what exactly is "room temperature"? What if your speaker is near an air duct? All I'm saying is that of all of the things that can have a real effect on the parameters of a woofer, temperature is a big one. James. ) |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
James Lehman wrote: All such measurements should be made at room temp after 'temperature equalisation' Incidentally UK pro-audio louspeaker manufacturer quotes Thiele-Small parameters thus...... Notes 3. Thiele - Small Parameters follow a 300 Watt preconditioning period. http://www.precisiondevices.co.uk/as...ds/super/8.pdf Graham Agreed. But what exactly is "room temperature"? What if your speaker is near an air duct? All I'm saying is that of all of the things that can have a real effect on the parameters of a woofer, temperature is a big one. Mostly such measurements are made at 20 or 25 C. What's an 'air duct' got to do with it ? Graham |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
What's an 'air duct' got to do with it ?
Graham I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. James. ) |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
James Lehman wrote: What's an 'air duct' got to do with it ? Graham I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. I see what you mean but I wouldn't expect an air duct to be wildly different. I just got a small a/c unit myself to help with the new hotter UK summers and I think it only goes as low as 16C. Graham |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
"Eeyore" wrote in
message ... James Lehman wrote: What's an 'air duct' got to do with it ? Graham I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. I see what you mean but I wouldn't expect an air duct to be wildly different. I just got a small a/c unit myself to help with the new hotter UK summers and I think it only goes as low as 16C. Graham I've lived here all of my life. Over the years I have experienced about -22° to +106° F. I've lived most of my life in wood houses. But I live in a brick now. We just got foam sprayed into the walls. The house I owned before this one was built in 1904. This one was 1909. James. ) |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm Most of it is utter ********. Agreed, so why why do you then say..... A driver does indeed 'loosen up' a bit in the first few hours of use however with most likely the greatest effect in the low bass. See their results for Fs. A little like 'running in' a car engine. Except a car engine stays that way, whereas the speaker will "stiffen" up again when unused. So maybe it's more like just bringing a car engine up to normal operating temperature, rather than running it in. There may well be something to it in having an extended 'running in' too including at quite high power levels. Note that running in a car engine is not dissimilar again. Take it easy at first and then carefully run it up and down through its performance range. A car engine actually wears metal surfaces. A speaker does not, and I can see no proof for carefully running a speaker up and down it's range, other than to establish what it's performance limits are without blowing it up. Those limits are not likely to increase with time, more likely the reverse. MrT. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
"James Lehman" wrote in message ... Agreed. But what exactly is "room temperature"? For the purposes of measurement procedure it is usually accepted as a constant 20 degC - 23degC. Humidity must also be fixed. Of course *anything* can be used, IF it is accurately specified, and not governed by any accepted test procedure you are claiming to follow. The thing about speaker measurements is that they are rarely done accurately, and *very rarely* provide proper test conditions or uncertainty calculations. A large mountain of salt is often required to accept most figures quoted. MrT. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Any thoughts on what's presented in this link? http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm Most of it is utter ********. Agreed, so why why do you then say..... A driver does indeed 'loosen up' a bit in the first few hours of use however with most likely the greatest effect in the low bass. See their results for Fs. A little like 'running in' a car engine. Most of the changes happen in the first few seconds, and tend to reverse themselves when the speaker is not used for a while. But back to the claim that the posted URL points to ********. Let's take some opening paragraphs: "Typical observations regarding speaker burn in involves an opening up or relaxing of the presentation." Well its true among a few audiophiles, its not a reliably observable effect, and most people don't notice this sort of thing unless they are "educated" to. " Vocals will appear less strained or congested." ********, what little that happens is in the bass. "The sound smooths out." If anything happens, the bass becomes less smooth. "Bass response appears cleaner, tighter, less distorted, and even deeper." Pretty much the opposite of what happens. "These same observations are reported day in and day out by people all over the world and is very consistent." Well yes, the evangelists of the break-in myth have pretty well spread all over the world. But the consistency is not there because break-in is mostly only discussed among high end audiophiles. "Still there are those who claim that it is the listener that does the burning in as one gets used to the sound." Mainly because this is the far stronger effect. "Funny thing is that if a speaker has a bright, edgy, or fatiguing sound to it, you will be more fatigued the longer that you listen to it not less fatigued the longer you listen." A true statement, but mostly irrelevant to break-in. I've never seen a speaker stop being bright or edgy due to true physical break-in. The highs are pretty much unaffected by break in. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
I think the measurements were made on a single driver. If one were to
obtain several drivers, how much would the measurements vary? IOW, does anyone know what's the inherent variability due to manufacturing, realizing that it probably differs to some degree. How much variance for say a woofer would be considered acceptable? |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Chu Gai wrote: I think the measurements were made on a single driver. If one were to obtain several drivers, how much would the measurements vary? IOW, does anyone know what's the inherent variability due to manufacturing, realizing that it probably differs to some degree. How much variance for say a woofer would be considered acceptable? I just replaced a driver in an SR cabinet. The 'new driver' had 4.1 Ohms DC resistance and the 'old' one had 4.8. Manufacturing tolerances I imagine. Graham |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:15:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote: I just replaced a driver in an SR cabinet. The 'new driver' had 4.1 Ohms DC resistance and the 'old' one had 4.8. Manufacturing tolerances I imagine. Did the old one measure 4.8 ohm when it was installed, or when it had to be replaced? |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
James Lehman wrote: I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. Actually, the term "room temperature" IS fairly constant. It's not the temperature at any given moment of any given room, as you seem to infer in earlier posts, but refers to a de facto standard. A google search of "room temperature" does NOT, as implied, bringh forth hugely varying results, e.g.: "Room temperature, in common usage, is taken to be roughly 20-25 degrees Celsius (68-77 degrees Fahrenheit, 528-532 Rankine, or 293-295 kelvin)." "nominal room temperature is 72 degrees Fahrenheit, 22 degrees Celsius)" And there are many, many more references that suggest the same. One sees reference to "room temperature super- conductors" and th like, and they all refer to the general range of about 21C or 70F, with a small variance thereabouts. More accurate would be to use what's refered to a "STP," or Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is defined as 20 celsius and 1 standard atmosphere. But, to those experts in the field of loudspeaker and acoustics and those familiar with the concepts all understand the term "room temperature" to mean 20-22 C. I have never once heard an argument among practitioners about one person's concept or room temperature vs another's. |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
On 15 Sep 2006 09:47:59 -0700, wrote:
More accurate would be to use what's refered to a "STP," or Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is defined as 20 celsius and 1 standard atmosphere. No, that would be NTP - normal temperature and pressure. STP sets temperature at zero C. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Don Pearce wrote: On 15 Sep 2006 09:47:59 -0700, wrote: More accurate would be to use what's refered to a "STP," or Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is defined as 20 celsius and 1 standard atmosphere. No, that would be NTP - normal temperature and pressure. STP sets temperature at zero C. Yes, that's right, 0C and 760 mm Hg equivalent column. Sorry. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
wrote in message ups.com... James Lehman wrote: I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. Actually, the term "room temperature" IS fairly constant. It's not the temperature at any given moment of any given room, as you seem to infer in earlier posts, but refers to a de facto standard. A google search of "room temperature" does NOT, as implied, bringh forth hugely varying results, e.g.: "Room temperature, in common usage, is taken to be roughly 20-25 degrees Celsius (68-77 degrees Fahrenheit, 528-532 Rankine, or 293-295 kelvin)." "nominal room temperature is 72 degrees Fahrenheit, 22 degrees Celsius)" And there are many, many more references that suggest the same. One sees reference to "room temperature super- conductors" and th like, and they all refer to the general range of about 21C or 70F, with a small variance thereabouts. More accurate would be to use what's refered to a "STP," or Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is defined as 20 celsius and 1 standard atmosphere. But, to those experts in the field of loudspeaker and acoustics and those familiar with the concepts all understand the term "room temperature" to mean 20-22 C. I have never once heard an argument among practitioners about one person's concept or room temperature vs another's. Well that's just dandy for all of us in this group who listen to test tones in a climate controlled anechoic chamber. I personally listen to music in my basement. And my speakers are near an external wall. The point I am trying to make is this... Sure, you can make your test situation as perfect as possible. And then there is the real, everyday use of the speaker system. James. ) |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
James Lehman wrote: wrote in message ups.com... James Lehman wrote: I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. Actually, the term "room temperature" IS fairly constant. It's not the temperature at any given moment of any given room, as you seem to infer in earlier posts, but refers to a de facto standard. A google search of "room temperature" does NOT, as implied, bringh forth hugely varying results, e.g.: "Room temperature, in common usage, is taken to be roughly 20-25 degrees Celsius (68-77 degrees Fahrenheit, 528-532 Rankine, or 293-295 kelvin)." "nominal room temperature is 72 degrees Fahrenheit, 22 degrees Celsius)" And there are many, many more references that suggest the same. One sees reference to "room temperature super- conductors" and th like, and they all refer to the general range of about 21C or 70F, with a small variance thereabouts. More accurate would be to use what's refered to a "STP," or Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is defined as 20 celsius and 1 standard atmosphere. But, to those experts in the field of loudspeaker and acoustics and those familiar with the concepts all understand the term "room temperature" to mean 20-22 C. I have never once heard an argument among practitioners about one person's concept or room temperature vs another's. Well that's just dandy for all of us in this group who listen to test tones in a climate controlled anechoic chamber. I personally listen to music in my basement. And my speakers are near an external wall. Hmm, I know of no one who, according to you, "listens to test tones in a climate controlled anechoic chamber." Perhaps you do and that's who you should address your comments to. As to myself, I listen to my system in a climate controlled room. That room has a thermostat in it, and otherwise, I can maintain the temperature to within about 2C of the set temperature. Perhaps you have heard of such devices? The point I am trying to make is this... Sure, you can make your test situation as perfect as possible. And then there is the real, everyday use of the speaker system. In that real world, which is apprently different than the one you inhabit, people easily control their environment to within quite reasonable limits. But, beyond that, your comments and inferences about there being no accepted value for room temperature is simply at odds with a rather large body of data. |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Laurence Payne wrote: On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:15:00 +0100, Eeyore wrote: I just replaced a driver in an SR cabinet. The 'new driver' had 4.1 Ohms DC resistance and the 'old' one had 4.8. Manufacturing tolerances I imagine. Did the old one measure 4.8 ohm when it was installed, or when it had to be replaced? The 'old' ones ( there were 2 of them ) both measured 4.8 Ohms when I checked it out after some years of use. Graham |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
wrote in message ups.com... James Lehman wrote: wrote in message ups.com... James Lehman wrote: I live in Northeast Ohio. We have weather here; air conditioning, heating. Room temperature is hardly anything constant. Actually, the term "room temperature" IS fairly constant. It's not the temperature at any given moment of any given room, as you seem to infer in earlier posts, but refers to a de facto standard. A google search of "room temperature" does NOT, as implied, bringh forth hugely varying results, e.g.: "Room temperature, in common usage, is taken to be roughly 20-25 degrees Celsius (68-77 degrees Fahrenheit, 528-532 Rankine, or 293-295 kelvin)." "nominal room temperature is 72 degrees Fahrenheit, 22 degrees Celsius)" And there are many, many more references that suggest the same. One sees reference to "room temperature super- conductors" and th like, and they all refer to the general range of about 21C or 70F, with a small variance thereabouts. More accurate would be to use what's refered to a "STP," or Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is defined as 20 celsius and 1 standard atmosphere. But, to those experts in the field of loudspeaker and acoustics and those familiar with the concepts all understand the term "room temperature" to mean 20-22 C. I have never once heard an argument among practitioners about one person's concept or room temperature vs another's. Well that's just dandy for all of us in this group who listen to test tones in a climate controlled anechoic chamber. I personally listen to music in my basement. And my speakers are near an external wall. Hmm, I know of no one who, according to you, "listens to test tones in a climate controlled anechoic chamber." Perhaps you do and that's who you should address your comments to. As to myself, I listen to my system in a climate controlled room. That room has a thermostat in it, and otherwise, I can maintain the temperature to within about 2C of the set temperature. Perhaps you have heard of such devices? The point I am trying to make is this... Sure, you can make your test situation as perfect as possible. And then there is the real, everyday use of the speaker system. In that real world, which is apprently different than the one you inhabit, people easily control their environment to within quite reasonable limits. But, beyond that, your comments and inferences about there being no accepted value for room temperature is simply at odds with a rather large body of data. Does anyone else see what a boob this guy is? James. ) |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:15:00 +0100, Eeyore wrote: I just replaced a driver in an SR cabinet. The 'new driver' had 4.1 Ohms DC resistance and the 'old' one had 4.8. Manufacturing tolerances I imagine. Did the old one measure 4.8 ohm when it was installed, or when it had to be replaced? Usually, when a speaker has to be replaced the DC resistance is infinite. YMMV. //Walt |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
"Walt" wrote in message ... Laurence Payne wrote: On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:15:00 +0100, Eeyore wrote: I just replaced a driver in an SR cabinet. The 'new driver' had 4.1 Ohms DC resistance and the 'old' one had 4.8. Manufacturing tolerances I imagine. Did the old one measure 4.8 ohm when it was installed, or when it had to be replaced? Usually, when a speaker has to be replaced the DC resistance is infinite. YMMV. //Walt Not if you drop it on the floor and the pole piece gets knocked out. James. ) |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Speaker Break In
Walt wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:15:00 +0100, Eeyore wrote: I just replaced a driver in an SR cabinet. The 'new driver' had 4.1 Ohms DC resistance and the 'old' one had 4.8. Manufacturing tolerances I imagine. Did the old one measure 4.8 ohm when it was installed, or when it had to be replaced? Usually, when a speaker has to be replaced the DC resistance is infinite. In this case the suspension was damaged. Graham |
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