Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

I have been having an annoying problem with my jazz group recording. Has
anyone else encountered such a problem?

It sounds fine during the event, everything seemingly balanced for good
sound all around. But when I get home and download it and try to produce the
disc, I find a constant, thrumming bass frequency from this electric bass
guitar that seems to be overwhelming my recording meters and my Velodyne
subwoofer. In other words, it is fooling my meters about how loud the rest
of the band is by driving the meters up for the bass freqs alone, leaving
the rest of the instruments too low.

You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to enable me to
bring up the other instruments to their rightful levels. But that will also
cut the drum kit from the low end of my recording, which I don't like much.

I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and recording
sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his portable amp and speaker
up all the way, so that there is this constant FOOM whenever he touches a
string, can I measure that if I tell him to play alone and see if it drives
my meters nuts?

I am recording with a single point stereo miking system on a stand, not
multi-tracking. People playing the recordings without a good sub may not
hear the problem. My system is well balanced for most commercial recordings
and is not bass heavy. I love the sound of the drum kit that I normally
get, but cannot tolerate this constant thrumming from the bass guitar.

HELP!

Gary Eickmeier

--
Gary Eickmeier


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler PStamler is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 882
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Is there one frequency from the bass that predominates?

Peace,
Paul
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] makolber@yahoo.com is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 614
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary,
Try using a spectrum analysis tool, see if there is a room resonance or something.
Ntrack studio has a nice spectrum analyzer that can augment your ears.
There are many others as well.
Mark
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar


wrote in message
...
Gary,
Try using a spectrum analysis tool, see if there is a room resonance or
something.
Ntrack studio has a nice spectrum analyzer that can augment your ears.
There are many others as well.
Mark


Thanks - you mean an instrument that can tell me the amplitude and freq that
is dominating at any given time? My editing program, Audition 2, has a
spectral frequency display that is about useless. How about an ordinary
Audiocontrol C-101 octave analyzer with its calibrated microphone? Just a 10
band, but is that the idea?

Gary Eickmeier


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
It sounds fine during the event, everything seemingly balanced for good
sound all around. But when I get home and download it and try to produce the
disc, I find a constant, thrumming bass frequency from this electric bass
guitar that seems to be overwhelming my recording meters and my Velodyne
subwoofer. In other words, it is fooling my meters about how loud the rest
of the band is by driving the meters up for the bass freqs alone, leaving
the rest of the instruments too low.


What makes you think it's from the bass guitar?

You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to enable me to
bring up the other instruments to their rightful levels. But that will also
cut the drum kit from the low end of my recording, which I don't like much.


So move the mikes closer to the drum kit.
Also the odds are that what you're seeing is very low... try a 50 Hz bass-cut
to begin with, for instance. You won't hear much change at all on the kick.

And really, if it's jazz, the kick is just an accent, it's not carrying the
beat anyway.

I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and recording
sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his portable amp and speaker
up all the way, so that there is this constant FOOM whenever he touches a
string, can I measure that if I tell him to play alone and see if it drives
my meters nuts?


Stop worrying about the meters and use your ears.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
S. King S. King is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:54:56 -0400, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

wrote in message
...
Gary,
Try using a spectrum analysis tool, see if there is a room resonance or
something.
Ntrack studio has a nice spectrum analyzer that can augment your ears.
There are many others as well.
Mark


Thanks - you mean an instrument that can tell me the amplitude and freq
that is dominating at any given time? My editing program, Audition 2,
has a spectral frequency display that is about useless. How about an
ordinary Audiocontrol C-101 octave analyzer with its calibrated
microphone? Just a 10 band, but is that the idea?

Gary Eickmeier


I use Audition 3. I find its Spectral Display very useful. Would I like
it to have a higher 'resolution? Yes. But as is, it is very handy. I
think you might want to spend a little more time with it. Right click on
the Frequency scale at the right of the time line. Select logarithmic
display and I think you'll like it better.

Way OT. But having to do with moving a troublesome instrument. A friend
of mine once spent some time as a roadie for the Maynard Ferguson big
band. I got to sit in on a rehearsal and sound check, when he was playing
the Playboy Club in Lake Geneva, WI. Maynard was a perfectionist. He was
unhappy with one of the trumpet players and had stopped the tune they were
rehearsing a couple of times to 'correct' the player. On the third
occasion of stopping Maynard said he thought it was the balance that was
the problem, and he asked the player to move his chair back two feet. The
guy replied that he'd fall off the back of the stage if he did that.
Maynard said, "I know".

SteveK
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler PStamler is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 882
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 7:54:56 PM UTC-6, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
wrote in message

...

Gary,


Try using a spectrum analysis tool, see if there is a room resonance or


something.


Ntrack studio has a nice spectrum analyzer that can augment your ears.


There are many others as well.


Mark




Thanks - you mean an instrument that can tell me the amplitude and freq that

is dominating at any given time? My editing program, Audition 2, has a

spectral frequency display that is about useless.


You're looking at the wrong thing. The spectral frequency display actually is useful, but not for your purposes. What you want to do is click on the "Analyze" menu column, then select "Show frequency analysis". It'll give you a much better version of that frequency analyzer in your 10-band equalizer.. (On my version Alt-Z brings it up, but that may be a shortcut I added.) For FFT size select 65536, for the type of analysis try Hanning. If you click on the analyzer window, pressing the space bar toggles between linear and logarithmic frequency displays -- you want log.

Now you can find what the problem frequency is. You can't do real-time analysis with the FFT greater than 4096, and 4096 won't give you sufficient resolution, so go back to the waveform window and select a part of the recording where the thrumming is bad. Go to the frequency window and find out what the bad frequency is. I'm betting the problem is a room resonance, which you may have to cure by asking the bass player to move the amp a couple of feet. The bass player may also be getting feedback from the amp to the instrument. Can you hear the thrumming when you listen in the room?

Peace,
Paul
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Scott Dorsey wrote:

What makes you think it's from the bass guitar?


It is very obvious. Starts and stops with him and only him.

You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to
enable me to bring up the other instruments to their rightful
levels. But that will also cut the drum kit from the low end of my
recording, which I don't like much.


So move the mikes closer to the drum kit.


No can do, unless I want to put them inside the band. Drums are always
behind everyone else.


Also the odds are that what you're seeing is very low... try a 50 Hz
bass-cut to begin with, for instance. You won't hear much change at
all on the kick.

And really, if it's jazz, the kick is just an accent, it's not
carrying the beat anyway.


Yes, probably around 50 Hz.


I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and
recording sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his
portable amp and speaker up all the way, so that there is this
constant FOOM whenever he touches a string, can I measure that if I
tell him to play alone and see if it drives my meters nuts?


Stop worrying about the meters and use your ears.


As I have said, I can't hear it so bad when standing there, but maybe the
microphones can.

Gary Eickmeier


  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

wrote in message
...


Gary,
Try using a spectrum analysis tool, see if there is a room resonance
or something.
Ntrack studio has a nice spectrum analyzer that can augment your
ears. There are many others as well.
Mark


Thanks - you mean an instrument that can tell me the amplitude and
freq that is dominating at any given time? My editing program,
Audition 2, has a spectral frequency display that is about useless.


Absolute not useless but perhaps used less wisely.

How about an ordinary Audiocontrol C-101 octave analyzer with its
calibrated microphone? Just a 10 band, but is that the idea?


No no no no no, will not give you single hz resolution, A2's fft analysis
window will if configured properly. Select the entire file, hit [alt][Z],
select "display as lines" select fft-length max, select blackman-harris.

Gary Eickmeier


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

I have been having an annoying problem with my jazz group recording.
Has anyone else encountered such a problem?


It sounds fine during the event, everything seemingly balanced for
good sound all around. But when I get home and download it and try to
produce the disc, I find a constant, thrumming bass frequency from
this electric bass guitar that seems to be overwhelming my recording
meters and my Velodyne subwoofer. In other words, it is fooling my
meters about how loud the rest of the band is by driving the meters
up for the bass freqs alone, leaving the rest of the instruments too
low.


Subsonics or airflow across the mics? - First you turn off the aircon, if
that doesn't do it you add windscreens to all mics - if that doesn't do it
you add high-pass filtering as early in the recording chain as possible. Or:
not to worry, just record with the required headroom to record it cleanly
and use your (phase-linear) fft-filter in A2 to remove it after analysis.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Peter Larsen wrote:

No no no no no, will not give you single hz resolution, A2's fft
analysis window will if configured properly. Select the entire file,
hit [alt][Z], select "display as lines" select fft-length max, select
blackman-harris.


Oh wow - THANKS to you and I think Paul for this - this is amazing. I even
have a book on Audition, but didn't know about all this analysis stuff. This
is a truly great program. Now I must see if this is in Bob Katz's book on
Mastering.

Gary


  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Luxey Luxey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

The next thing we'll read from you will be about your customers being extremely satisfied with your mastering job? That's how it was when you asked about basic microphone positioning technique.
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

What makes you think it's from the bass guitar?


It is very obvious. Starts and stops with him and only him.


And when you walk around the room with a finger in one ear, is it
everywhere, or only in some places?

That is to say... is it really a problem from the bass guitar, or is
it a problem with the room? If it's a a problem with the room the bass
guitar is the only thing that is going to excite it because you really
won't have anything else in the bottom octave going on.


You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to
enable me to bring up the other instruments to their rightful
levels. But that will also cut the drum kit from the low end of my
recording, which I don't like much.


So move the mikes closer to the drum kit.


No can do, unless I want to put them inside the band. Drums are always
behind everyone else.


Putting them inside the band isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, and
one of the big advantages of baffled omnis is that it can allow you to do
just that without becoming too dry.

Also the odds are that what you're seeing is very low... try a 50 Hz
bass-cut to begin with, for instance. You won't hear much change at
all on the kick.

And really, if it's jazz, the kick is just an accent, it's not
carrying the beat anyway.


Yes, probably around 50 Hz.


So, EQ it, and don't worry.

I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and
recording sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his
portable amp and speaker up all the way, so that there is this
constant FOOM whenever he touches a string, can I measure that if I
tell him to play alone and see if it drives my meters nuts?


Stop worrying about the meters and use your ears.


As I have said, I can't hear it so bad when standing there, but maybe the
microphones can.


Put one finger in your ear, then move your head to where the microphones are,
then move your head someplace else. If you don't hear it with your head
there, then it's something being induced at the microphone or after it, and
it's time to consider shockmounting and EQ. You do have a shockmount, right?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

What makes you think it's from the bass guitar?


It is very obvious. Starts and stops with him and only him.


And when you walk around the room with a finger in one ear, is it
everywhere, or only in some places?


That is to say... is it really a problem from the bass guitar, or is
it a problem with the room? If it's a a problem with the room the bass
guitar is the only thing that is going to excite it because you really
won't have anything else in the bottom octave going on.



You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to
enable me to bring up the other instruments to their rightful
levels. But that will also cut the drum kit from the low end of my
recording, which I don't like much.

So move the mikes closer to the drum kit.


No can do, unless I want to put them inside the band. Drums are always
behind everyone else.


Putting them inside the band isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, and
one of the big advantages of baffled omnis is that it can allow you to do
just that without becoming too dry.


Also the odds are that what you're seeing is very low... try a 50 Hz
bass-cut to begin with, for instance. You won't hear much change at
all on the kick.

And really, if it's jazz, the kick is just an accent, it's not
carrying the beat anyway.


Yes, probably around 50 Hz.


So, EQ it, and don't worry.


I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and
recording sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his
portable amp and speaker up all the way, so that there is this
constant FOOM whenever he touches a string, can I measure that if I
tell him to play alone and see if it drives my meters nuts?

Stop worrying about the meters and use your ears.


As I have said, I can't hear it so bad when standing there, but maybe the
microphones can.


Put one finger in your ear, then move your head to where the microphones are,
then move your head someplace else. If you don't hear it with your head
there, then it's something being induced at the microphone or after it, and
it's time to consider shockmounting and EQ. You do have a shockmount, right?



+1 on what Scott has said.

But, you also might have a problem with your room that up until now hasn't been revealed. Basses --
especially acoustic basses, can do some crazy stuff with the fundamental and harmonic sequences. Have
you done a waterfall plot of your room? You might be mortified to see a narrow but very long
resonance somewhere in the bass region -- and just by bad luck you're precisely exciting that problem
with this recording.

Case in point, the 900 seat theater where I do the occasional PA gig revealed a rather serious fault
-- but only when amplifying acoustic bass via microphone.

Amplified bass sounded really wonderful in the house -- got just the right EQ and a tiny kiss of
comp. Felt really natural, only bumped up a little in level to fit the situation. It was just what
the player and band leader wanted. But, hit an open "D" and even the fingered "D" on the string below
of the same pitch and holy crap! A whole bunch of different things started to resonate -- support
wires for the ceiling clouds, catwalks, lighting fixtures. Truly amazing that this one note excited
so much stuff.

Take an oscillator at that exact same frequency and not much happened. It took the fundamental,
the strong fifth, and first octave harmonic to get things really buzzing and rattling.

Could be something of a similar nature in your environment.

You'll find a lot of high pass in many commercial recordings. A good chunk of this potentially
troublesome energy has been removed, simply because so many rooms at home are so bad in the LF. You,
as a consumer, still *think* there's good bass because there might be a bump up where the high pass
starts, and/or an EQ bump at the first harmonic range. But put *real* bass into those rooms and you
just might have the problem you're experiencing. (In the case of theater, we have a *lot* of work to
do, and someone who can stand with the bass and thump a "D" for hours on end as we chase down the
problems.)

Frank
Mobile Audio
--
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler PStamler is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 882
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

+1 on Scott and Frank's comments. As Scott asked, are you using shock mounts on your mics? If not that may be the problem right there.

Peace,
Paul


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Frank Stearns wrote:

But, you also might have a problem with your room that up until now hasn't been revealed. Basses --
especially acoustic basses, can do some crazy stuff with the fundamental and harmonic sequences. Have
you done a waterfall plot of your room? You might be mortified to see a narrow but very long
resonance somewhere in the bass region -- and just by bad luck you're precisely exciting that problem
with this recording.


And THAT is why God and Burgess MacNeil made the parametric EQ, for just that
eventuality.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gareth magennis gareth magennis is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 203
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar



"Gary Eickmeier" wrote in message ...

I have been having an annoying problem with my jazz group recording. Has
anyone else encountered such a problem?

It sounds fine during the event, everything seemingly balanced for good
sound all around. But when I get home and download it and try to produce the
disc, I find a constant, thrumming bass frequency from this electric bass
guitar that seems to be overwhelming my recording meters and my Velodyne
subwoofer. In other words, it is fooling my meters about how loud the rest
of the band is by driving the meters up for the bass freqs alone, leaving
the rest of the instruments too low.

You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to enable me to
bring up the other instruments to their rightful levels. But that will also
cut the drum kit from the low end of my recording, which I don't like much.

I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and recording
sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his portable amp and speaker
up all the way, so that there is this constant FOOM whenever he touches a
string, can I measure that if I tell him to play alone and see if it drives
my meters nuts?

I am recording with a single point stereo miking system on a stand, not
multi-tracking. People playing the recordings without a good sub may not
hear the problem. My system is well balanced for most commercial recordings
and is not bass heavy. I love the sound of the drum kit that I normally
get, but cannot tolerate this constant thrumming from the bass guitar.

HELP!

Gary Eickmeier




Gary, this is a (not so wild) guess, but I would investigate whether the
Bass Guitar had Active Circuitry in it, and that the 9v battery powering
such circuitry was able to provide the required 9 volts.




Gareth.

  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Sean Conolly Sean Conolly is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 638
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

"PStamler" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, March 23, 2014 7:54:56 PM UTC-6, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
wrote in message

...

Gary,


Try using a spectrum analysis tool, see if there is a room resonance or


something.


Ntrack studio has a nice spectrum analyzer that can augment your ears.


There are many others as well.


Mark




Thanks - you mean an instrument that can tell me the amplitude and freq
that

is dominating at any given time? My editing program, Audition 2, has a

spectral frequency display that is about useless.


You're looking at the wrong thing. The spectral frequency display actually
is useful, but not for your purposes. What you want to do is click on the
"Analyze" menu column, then select "Show frequency analysis". It'll give you
a much better version of that frequency analyzer in your 10-band equalizer.
(On my version Alt-Z brings it up, but that may be a shortcut I added.) For
FFT size select 65536, for the type of analysis try Hanning. If you click on
the analyzer window, pressing the space bar toggles between linear and
logarithmic frequency displays -- you want log.

Now you can find what the problem frequency is. You can't do real-time
analysis with the FFT greater than 4096, and 4096 won't give you sufficient
resolution, so go back to the waveform window and select a part of the
recording where the thrumming is bad. Go to the frequency window and find
out what the bad frequency is.

snip
----------------------------------------------
more ideas...

Try running the analysis on a longish stretch of the track - like 30 seconds
or a minute. The musical sound will average out to a flatter line, and the
resonance will really stick out.

Once you find the fundamental frequency, you can high pass over it, or notch
out the frequency, or even use narrow band limiting on it. Check out the
first couple of harmonics too, the resonance may cause other things (like
the mic stand) to resonate at a harmonic frequency.

Sean


  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

What makes you think it's from the bass guitar?


It is very obvious. Starts and stops with him and only him.


And when you walk around the room with a finger in one ear, is it
everywhere, or only in some places?

That is to say... is it really a problem from the bass guitar, or is
it a problem with the room? If it's a a problem with the room the bass
guitar is the only thing that is going to excite it because you really
won't have anything else in the bottom octave going on.


I think definitely the guitar. I have noticed it in three different
recordings now in three different rooms, most of them pretty large.


You will tell me to just low cut the recording on mastering, to
enable me to bring up the other instruments to their rightful
levels. But that will also cut the drum kit from the low end of my
recording, which I don't like much.

So move the mikes closer to the drum kit.


No can do, unless I want to put them inside the band. Drums are always
behind everyone else.


Putting them inside the band isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, and
one of the big advantages of baffled omnis is that it can allow you to do
just that without becoming too dry.


Well, just doing single point stereo miking of the group as a whole.

Also the odds are that what you're seeing is very low... try a 50 Hz
bass-cut to begin with, for instance. You won't hear much change at
all on the kick.

And really, if it's jazz, the kick is just an accent, it's not
carrying the beat anyway.


Yes, probably around 50 Hz.


Turns out to be more like 100, from the Analyze window in Audition. So I
will try to EQ again. But what sort of curve do you look for on a recording?
Dead flat, or with a little bass emphasis, or what?


So, EQ it, and don't worry.

I also wonder how to check the balances during sound checks and
recording sessions. If this guy has his bass controls on his
portable amp and speaker up all the way, so that there is this
constant FOOM whenever he touches a string, can I measure that if I
tell him to play alone and see if it drives my meters nuts?

Stop worrying about the meters and use your ears.


As I have said, I can't hear it so bad when standing there, but maybe the
microphones can.


Put one finger in your ear, then move your head to where the microphones
are,
then move your head someplace else. If you don't hear it with your head
there, then it's something being induced at the microphone or after it,
and
it's time to consider shockmounting and EQ. You do have a shockmount,
right?
--scott


Alas, now they tell me that was the last performance for the season. Glad I
was there to catch it, and maybe I can EQ it pretty well. This was a larger
room than our practice room, and I had great hopes for this recording. We
shall see.

Gary




  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar


"PStamler" wrote in message
...
+1 on Scott and Frank's comments. As Scott asked, are you using shock
mounts on your mics? If not that may be the problem right there.


Yes, shock mounts are standard for the AT-2050. Fascinating info from
Frank - I don't think I could do all that analysis, especially for a dance
event where there is no pre show sound check or time to do all that.

Gary


  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar


"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


Gary, this is a (not so wild) guess, but I would investigate whether the
Bass Guitar had Active Circuitry in it, and that the 9v battery powering
such circuitry was able to provide the required 9 volts.


I guess anything is possible, but I just learned that the jazz group has
done its last performance for the season, so I will have to wait.

Thanks to all for some great tips!

Gary


  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

"Gary Eickmeier" writes:


"PStamler" wrote in message
...
+1 on Scott and Frank's comments. As Scott asked, are you using shock
mounts on your mics? If not that may be the problem right there.


Yes, shock mounts are standard for the AT-2050. Fascinating info from
Frank - I don't think I could do all that analysis, especially for a dance
event where there is no pre show sound check or time to do all that.



Er, which part of my post did you mean? It's all fairly standard stuff. But tell me
what seemed like a "lot of analysis" and I'll try to clarify.

Frank
Mobile Audio


--
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

"Gary Eickmeier" writes:


"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
news
(Scott Dorsey) writes:

Frank Stearns wrote:

But, you also might have a problem with your room that up until now
hasn't been revealed. Basses --
especially acoustic basses, can do some crazy stuff with the fundamental
and harmonic sequences. Have
you done a waterfall plot of your room? You might be mortified to see a
narrow but very long
resonance somewhere in the bass region -- and just by bad luck you're
precisely exciting that problem
with this recording.


And THAT is why God and Burgess MacNeil made the parametric EQ, for just
that
eventuality.
--scott


True, but even after the notch you still have that long "hang time" at
that Hz.
Depending on a number of factors -- and whether I could identify the
specific cause
in the room -- I might also look at a trap or tuned resonator.


Frank, just out of curiosity, if I had a portable player or frequency
generator, could I use that to check for resonances in a room? Like, before
the band arrives, put its speaker where the bass might be and just play
transients and test tones and see what pops up?


I seriously doubt it. You really need THAT player, with HIS instrument. You can,
however, get a general sense of that room by going to other events there. Does the
low end seem woofy? Boomy?

What'd be useful for that purpose in general would be to do some analysis on the
room with the appropriate test equipment. At least then you see if there's something
generally odd about the room.

Still, as Scott probably mentioned, you can do a lot with a finging plugging one ear
while you bob your head around suspect places with the other.

Frank
Mobile Audio


--


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

I don't go to a dance concert and make a waterfall plot of the room,
or have the bass player go through each note while I try to figure
out that an open D, the strong fifth and first octave harmonic were
the culprits - even if I knew what an open D is! Have mercy!


A tape measure is a valuable acoustic tool when looking for resonance(s).

Gary Eickmeier


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Frank Stearns Frank Stearns is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

"Gary Eickmeier" writes:


"Frank Stearns" wrote in message
nacquisition...
"Gary Eickmeier" writes:


"PStamler" wrote in message
...
+1 on Scott and Frank's comments. As Scott asked, are you using shock
mounts on your mics? If not that may be the problem right there.


Yes, shock mounts are standard for the AT-2050. Fascinating info from
Frank - I don't think I could do all that analysis, especially for a dance
event where there is no pre show sound check or time to do all that.



Er, which part of my post did you mean? It's all fairly standard stuff.
But tell me
what seemed like a "lot of analysis" and I'll try to clarify.


I don't go to a dance concert and make a waterfall plot of the room, or have


I meant a waterfall plot of YOUR playback room to verify that you don't have some
nasty node that's being excited by this particular field capture. Sometimes rooms
will have narrow problems that are rarely heard. Only certain music will reveal the
problem (or a good measurement) -- but when that excitation does take place, look
out!

Analysis of the venues you work in can be helpful as well. Here in the new town, as
well as my old town, I'd eventually made friends with tech people at the various
venues where I'd worked. Convinced them it would be fun and useful to do some
testing. They were eventually convinced to work with me, then happy we'd done the
measurements. And I was informed a bit more about the particular room, with good
detail supporting what my ear had already told me in general.

And that's still a good thing to use -- your ears. Perhaps go to these venues during
other events, just so you can listen to the room and not be distracted by your
recording tasks of the moment. Anything strike you as odd about the room?


the bass player go through each note while I try to figure out that an open
D, the strong fifth and first octave harmonic were the culprits - even if I
knew what an open D is! Have mercy!


Well, as a recording engineer, you don't have to play any instrument or sing, but it
helps if you noodle around with something, and have a very basic grasp of music
theory. At least familiarize youself with instruments. If nothing else, I'm sure
there're instructional vids on Youtube that will demo instruments -- how they work,
what they sound like. And other vids on basic music theory -- what are octaves,
thirds, fifths, etc, etc; what do those relationships sound like? What are the
harmonics generated?

And, we didn't have the bass player tediously strike each note. He was just jamming
around during set up and when he hit that open D string, jump back! Rattle city.
Shocked the hell out of us. After the bass player left for the dinner break prior to
the show, the other audio tech went up in the attic and I stood on stage plucking
that note as the guy upstairs tried to quiet the worse offenders. (I'd never touched
a bass before, btw, but rest assured that we did have the player's permission. And
you ALWAYS want to get that. You're fondling the musician's child. You damn well
better be careful and respectful.)

But see, I'd already identified there was a rattle problem in this house with a
tenor voice during a Messiah presentation. Soloists were amplified (cringe, but I
wasn't working that show, just in the audience). On certain notes sounded like
distortion. Told the lead tech, he thought I was nuts. But the next week we swept a
sine and found that problem around 180 hz or so. Couple that with the bass thing and
now he's a believer. Over time we hope to ID and fix all these issues in that house.

Point is to LISTEN, be AWARE, then follow up best you can, given whatever the local
circumstance might be.

Frank

--
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Sylvain Robitaille Sylvain Robitaille is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:13:26 -0400, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

... what sort of curve do you look for on a recording?


Whatever *sounds* right.

Dead flat, or with a little bass emphasis, or what?


Don't look; listen.

I know it's been suggested to you before, and I'm sure it'll be
suggested to you again, but it really does come down to that.

Your ears (accompanied by at least a few different monitoring systems
and environments need to be the final judge of what's right, not
your eyes. I work in one room in the house, then take CDs to other
rooms, the car, my workplace, etc. and evaluate how well my results
translate to those environments; I have yet to accomplish a first-try
recording/mix, but I'm also not doing this on a daily basis.

You were at the performance while it was being recorded. I believe
what you're trying to do is massage the recording so that it sounds
as close as possible to how the band sounded live in the room.
Keep chipping away at the bits that don't sound like the band did
live, until all that's left does. Burn that to disk, and listen
to it in the car, on your home stereo, on your neighbor's boombox,
on headphones, etc. You may need to go back and adjust your EQ,
levels, etc. Repeat as required.

Notice that what's being discussed here is all about how the recording
sounds in these environments, and its comparison to how the band
sounds in a live environment.

Practice critical listening, with professionally mixed and mastered
disks (of the same *and* different styles of music as the band you're
working with) in these same environments. Notice how the various
intruments sound, and how the overall blend sounds. Note what you
can hear similarly in all (most?) environments, and on all (or most)
recordings, versus what sounds completely different. Can you break
down the recordings, and identify the instrumentation throughout, note
where instruments come and go, follow general contours of individual
melodic lines? This will help you to be able to listen to your own
recording, and make necessary adjustments to get it to how you think
it should sound.

I hope that helps.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille

Systems analyst / AITS Concordia University
Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar


"Sylvain Robitaille" wrote in message
a...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:13:26 -0400, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

... what sort of curve do you look for on a recording?


Whatever *sounds* right.

Dead flat, or with a little bass emphasis, or what?


Don't look; listen.

I know it's been suggested to you before, and I'm sure it'll be
suggested to you again, but it really does come down to that.

Your ears (accompanied by at least a few different monitoring systems
and environments need to be the final judge of what's right, not
your eyes. I work in one room in the house, then take CDs to other
rooms, the car, my workplace, etc. and evaluate how well my results
translate to those environments; I have yet to accomplish a first-try
recording/mix, but I'm also not doing this on a daily basis.

You were at the performance while it was being recorded. I believe
what you're trying to do is massage the recording so that it sounds
as close as possible to how the band sounded live in the room.
Keep chipping away at the bits that don't sound like the band did
live, until all that's left does. Burn that to disk, and listen
to it in the car, on your home stereo, on your neighbor's boombox,
on headphones, etc. You may need to go back and adjust your EQ,
levels, etc. Repeat as required.

Notice that what's being discussed here is all about how the recording
sounds in these environments, and its comparison to how the band
sounds in a live environment.

Practice critical listening, with professionally mixed and mastered
disks (of the same *and* different styles of music as the band you're
working with) in these same environments. Notice how the various
intruments sound, and how the overall blend sounds. Note what you
can hear similarly in all (most?) environments, and on all (or most)
recordings, versus what sounds completely different. Can you break
down the recordings, and identify the instrumentation throughout, note
where instruments come and go, follow general contours of individual
melodic lines? This will help you to be able to listen to your own
recording, and make necessary adjustments to get it to how you think
it should sound.

I hope that helps.


Well, yes, I generally do everything by listening, but sometimes you can
then find a trend or a corellation between the listening and the tech
measurements that can help to shortcut the long listening journey to
perfection next time. Everyone thinks flat is perfection, but experienced
engineers know about "room curves" and recording engineers may know a few
things about emphasizing certain frequency ranges to make something sound
better on certain media, like on the radio or the boombox or the car.

It would be easy to EQ a recording to flat, as measured by these analysis
tools, but would that be the best sounding recording? I suspect not, but I
need the feedback of the more experienced practicioners out there.

Gary


  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Luxey Luxey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

среда, 26. март 2014. 18.42.02 UTC+1, Gary Eickmeier је написао/ла:
"Sylvain Robitaille" wrote in message

a...

On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:13:26 -0400, Gary Eickmeier wrote:




... what sort of curve do you look for on a recording?




Whatever *sounds* right.




Dead flat, or with a little bass emphasis, or what?




Don't look; listen.




I know it's been suggested to you before, and I'm sure it'll be


suggested to you again, but it really does come down to that.




Your ears (accompanied by at least a few different monitoring systems


and environments need to be the final judge of what's right, not


your eyes. I work in one room in the house, then take CDs to other


rooms, the car, my workplace, etc. and evaluate how well my results


translate to those environments; I have yet to accomplish a first-try


recording/mix, but I'm also not doing this on a daily basis.




You were at the performance while it was being recorded. I believe


what you're trying to do is massage the recording so that it sounds


as close as possible to how the band sounded live in the room.


Keep chipping away at the bits that don't sound like the band did


live, until all that's left does. Burn that to disk, and listen


to it in the car, on your home stereo, on your neighbor's boombox,


on headphones, etc. You may need to go back and adjust your EQ,


levels, etc. Repeat as required.




Notice that what's being discussed here is all about how the recording


sounds in these environments, and its comparison to how the band


sounds in a live environment.




Practice critical listening, with professionally mixed and mastered


disks (of the same *and* different styles of music as the band you're


working with) in these same environments. Notice how the various


intruments sound, and how the overall blend sounds. Note what you


can hear similarly in all (most?) environments, and on all (or most)


recordings, versus what sounds completely different. Can you break


down the recordings, and identify the instrumentation throughout, note


where instruments come and go, follow general contours of individual


melodic lines? This will help you to be able to listen to your own


recording, and make necessary adjustments to get it to how you think


it should sound.




I hope that helps.




Well, yes, I generally do everything by listening, but sometimes you can

then find a trend or a corellation between the listening and the tech

measurements that can help to shortcut the long listening journey to

perfection next time. Everyone thinks flat is perfection, but experienced

engineers know about "room curves" and recording engineers may know a few

things about emphasizing certain frequency ranges to make something sound

better on certain media, like on the radio or the boombox or the car.



It would be easy to EQ a recording to flat, as measured by these analysis

tools, but would that be the best sounding recording? I suspect not, but I

need the feedback of the more experienced practicioners out there.



Gary


So, now you teach what experienced engineers think and do?
Why don't you just buzz off once already.


  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler PStamler is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 882
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 11:54:45 AM UTC-6, Luxey wrote:

So, now you teach what experienced engineers think and do?

Why don't you just buzz off once already.


Luxey, the man is asking for advice from others with more experience. Isn't that one of the reasons this forum exists?

Peace,
Paul
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Luxey Luxey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

среда, 26. март 2014. 19.04.53 UTC+1, PStamler је написао/ла:
On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 11:54:45 AM UTC-6, Luxey wrote:



So, now you teach what experienced engineers think and do?




Why don't you just buzz off once already.




Luxey, the man is asking for advice from others with more experience. Isn't that one of the reasons this forum exists?



Peace,

Paul


Well. Paul, that's surelly what he would hope it to look like. However, having experience with his previous posts and questions, soon turned into lectures, IMO, he's playing his sick game, again.

You can take him as easy as you like, but I won't let history repeating. Not that easy, at least.
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Sylvain Robitaille Sylvain Robitaille is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 13:42:02 -0400, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

.... Everyone thinks flat is perfection, ...


Yes, but what's being referred to there is "perceived flat"ness. Ie.
it sounds even across the audible frequency spectrum. In order to
accomplish that, as you appear to already know, the measured output
is certainly not visibly flat. For what it's worth, your speakers
probably aren't either (if they're at all pleasant to listen to, that
is), so they (as much as other factors) will affect what processing
you will apply to accomplish the desired result.

... but experienced engineers know about "room curves" and recording
engineers may know a few things about emphasizing certain frequency
ranges to make something sound better on certain media, like on
the radio or the boombox or the car.


Sure, but there isn't any point in discussing such adjustments without
the context of the original source (in this case your *recorded* source
material). If someone says (strictly for example here) "apply a boost
at 150Hz for a nice warm kick-drum sound", but you're finding you need
to *cut* in that area just to make the bass guitar sound natural,
the advice given isn't exactly valuable. Not to mention that if
they *did* say that, what would they be basing such a suggestion on,
unless they'd heard the original unprocessed recording?

It would be easy to EQ a recording to flat, as measured by these
analysis tools, but would that be the best sounding recording?


I think we agree it wouldn't be, but if you EQ it so it *sounds* flat
(as in "even across the audible spectrum"), you'll probably have a
reasonably good starting point. Personally, I aim for as little EQ
as possible to accomplish the desired result. I don't know for sure
that I'm always on target, but that's what I try to do. I also find
that it's usually more productive to cut what there's too much of,
rather than try to add back what isn't there, but there are certainly
exceptions, and I'm sure others would use a completely different
approach.

I suspect not, but I need the feedback of the more experienced
practicioners out there.


I'll be surprised if any of them offer more specific suggestions than
"it depends" (unless of course you can have someone come and listen to
your recording), because ultimately it does depend.

Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm not the expert you're looking for,
but I do hope I've helped.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille

Systems analyst / AITS Concordia University
Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
hank alrich hank alrich is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,736
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Frank Stearns wrote:

Well, as a recording engineer, you don't have to play any instrument or
sing, but it helps if you noodle around with something, and have a very
basic grasp of music theory. At least familiarize youself with
instruments. If nothing else, I'm sure there're instructional vids on
Youtube that will demo instruments -- how they work, what they sound like.
And other vids on basic music theory -- what are octaves, thirds, fifths,
etc, etc; what do those relationships sound like? What are the harmonics
generated?


The Acoustical Foundations of Music - John Backus

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/978-0-393-09096-3/

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
  #35   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
hank alrich hank alrich is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,736
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Well, yes, I generally do everything by listening, but sometimes you can
then find a trend or a corellation between the listening and the tech
measurements that can help to shortcut the long listening journey to
perfection next time.


Not. Next time even in the same room there will be variance to some
large or small degree from this time, and you will have to listen on
site to grasp the implications of those differences.

Everyone thinks flat is perfection,


I don't know where you get that crap. First, you don't know everybody,
and second, I don't know a single recordist/mix engineer who thinks that
_when talking about the sound of a recording_ instead of talking about
the specifications for some primary component in the signal chain, often
not including microphones.

You appear to carry an extraordinary burden of assumptions that are
wildly amiss.

but experienced
engineers know about "room curves" and recording engineers may know a few
things about emphasizing certain frequency ranges to make something sound
better on certain media, like on the radio or the boombox or the car.


Most excellent mix engineers with whom I am personally familiar are able
to deliver one mix of a piece that will play well across the wide range
of available playback systems. That is what is meant when people remark
that a given mix "Translates well", or "Travels well".

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
Turns out to be more like 100, from the Analyze window in Audition. So I
will try to EQ again. But what sort of curve do you look for on a recording?
Dead flat, or with a little bass emphasis, or what?


Whatever sounds good. The FFT will tell you where the resonance is, but
figuring out how to make it blend is a thing you have to do by ear and in
order to do it you have to trust your monitoring.

If it's as high as 100c, I'm surprised you aren't hearing it in the room
very audibly. Are you _sure_ it's not leaking in through conducted
vibration up the mike stand?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #37   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gary Eickmeier Gary Eickmeier is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,449
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
Turns out to be more like 100, from the Analyze window in Audition. So I
will try to EQ again. But what sort of curve do you look for on a
recording?
Dead flat, or with a little bass emphasis, or what?


Whatever sounds good. The FFT will tell you where the resonance is, but
figuring out how to make it blend is a thing you have to do by ear and in
order to do it you have to trust your monitoring.

If it's as high as 100c, I'm surprised you aren't hearing it in the room
very audibly. Are you _sure_ it's not leaking in through conducted
vibration up the mike stand?
--scott


Reasonably. Believe me, I have some experience with that one! And I worry
about it ever since. What happened is I was recording my daughter's cello
group on a wooden stage. I put my mike stand on the same stage with them,
and it was fine when their feet were still, but when they came in and moved
chairs and sat down, it was a heard of elephants on a tin roof. I lucked out
a little during the playing, because they didn't tap feet or vibrate the
surface much, but I had to edit out the foot sounds between pieces (it was a
video). I could have avoided all that by just placing the stand on the
concrete floor.

I had another nasty situation while recording her play at the local church.
I needed to put the mike close to the stage to get the voices, in case the
house system didn't pick them up very well. It seemed reasonable at the
time, but when I got home there was a horrid problem with the stage speakers
because I was in their bass range but out of their treble range, so there
was a variable lumpy bass interference - something like I am complaining
about in the OP. For this reason, I was trying to be careful about such
positioning but maybe I failed.

Thanks everyone for all your help. I have once again learned a lot for next
time. I will try some of the suggestions about how to listen for resonances
on scene. I was variously standing where the mikes were and also walking
around and sitting on stage right where the offencing bass guitar was with
his portable speaker. I even knew about this potential problem, but listened
for it and couldn't detect it when I was there, so didn't worry about it.

My questions about the analysis tools, which I had not seen before, were
probably at a much simpler level than you read into them. It looked like a
snapshot of an entire time period, usually a whole musical number, graphed
out on a frequency response plot, and I didn't know what to make of it or
what to do with it. It isn't like a FR plot of your microphones, because the
band is not playing pink noise, they are playing music. So is it kind of
like a histogram in photography? Not supposed to be flat, or evenly
distributed, but shouldn't have extremes of anything either?

Mine looked like a big hill, with a peak at 100 and rising up to that point
from zero and sloping down towards the high end, kind of like a room curve.
I assume I should just flatten the peak a little and then I should lose the
offending bass emphasis.

So OK, I've got some new tools, tips, and techniques for next season and I
press on.

Thanks again,
Gary


  #38   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler PStamler is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 882
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 9:37:28 PM UTC-6, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
It looked like a
snapshot of an entire time period, usually a whole musical number, graphed
out on a frequency response plot, and I didn't know what to make of it or

what to do with it. It isn't like a FR plot of your microphones, because the
band is not playing pink noise, they are playing music. So is it kind of
like a histogram in photography? Not supposed to be flat, or evenly
distributed, but shouldn't have extremes of anything either?



Mine looked like a big hill, with a peak at 100 and rising up to that point

from zero and sloping down towards the high end, kind of like a room curve.


Kind of like a histogram, but showing what the sound is actually doing. That big peak is the bass resonance, whatever it's coming from.

The default measurement shows the entire song, but if you highlight a particular portion and then bring up the analyzer with Ctrl-Z, you'll see what's happening at that moment. Both the whole-song measurement and the momentary measurement can be useful -- try measuring during one of the exaggerated FOOOOM sounds.

I assume I should just flatten the peak a little and then I should lose the
offending bass emphasis.


That would be a good start, yes.

So OK, I've got some new tools, tips, and techniques for next season and I
press on.


I'm still wondering about the effectiveness of the shock-mounting. When someone gets way too much bass in the mic, but doesn't hear it in the room, conduction up through the stand is a good possibility. Can you find a picture someplace on the web of this mic and the shock mount you're using?

Peace,
Paul
  #40   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default Thrumming Bass Guitar

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

It would be easy to EQ a recording to flat, as measured by these
analysis tools,


You need to understand that the FFT display references white noise, not
natural sound.

but would that be the best sounding recording?


No, not if you have to eq.

I
suspect not, but I need the feedback of the more experienced
practicioners out there.


Here is an old one from back when I was learning more intensively than now,
I would write it very different today:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.audio.pro.live-sound/orange$20noise/alt.audio.pro.live-sound/cMkHUOVP20M/6vqOhGu1Ov4J

What is important to understand is that while the observation describes
natural sounds average characteristics it does NOT predict a single sound
source or recording.

Whith more work it became obvious that for eq prediction it breaks down into
sub-cases, most of those have an additional treble roll-off flank, generally
refenced to microphone distance from sound source.

Also I should have broken down the manuscript referred to in several less
all-incompassing then it might have been of some use and perhaps even gotten
published.

If you are bored during the off-concert summer, then sit down and analyse
what sounds good and what sounds bad to you. Then you will begin to know
when to apply the observation above and when not to.

Remember:

if you need to compensate for system frequency aberrations there is a good
sporting chance that those are minimum phase, so use minimum phase EQ, in
Audition that would be the standard equalizing functions, usually you can
come close with the parametric.

if you need to compensate for room frequency aberrations or just
"unrecordable, strange sounding sources", then you use the FFT eq window and
draw a curve. For a room resonance a very sharp 36 dB dip may be the best
cure. It will not end up as a 36 dB dip. Use splines and add several eq
points to get it sharp.

If possible: find the Cool Edit help file and read it.

If all else fails: listen to real sound, anybody doing sound should be a
member of the local chamber music society and attend their concerts no
matter what genre you're involved with professionally.

Gary


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
D112 for bass guitar [email protected] Pro Audio 10 June 6th 06 04:00 PM
Recording bass through a guitar amp [email protected] Pro Audio 9 December 3rd 05 06:54 PM
Xmax and bass guitar Georg Grosz Tech 3 November 24th 04 03:02 AM
FS: Crate BX-100 bass guitar amp Dave Pro Audio 0 August 2nd 04 06:02 PM
Better bass guitar my mixes Andy Peake Pro Audio 14 December 13th 03 10:14 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:14 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"