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Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my homestereo, boombox, or car receiver



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 12th 11, 04:38 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
ChrisCoaster
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Posts: 409
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my homestereo, boombox, or car receiver

It's the same wherever I go. In the car, I switch from my mp3 jack or
CD to a FM station and instinctively I have to turn the volume down by
at least 1/3rd.

At home, switching from a record, CD or tape to the radio - gotta
crank that volume down! Ditto at the beach on my boombox.

Now folks I don't need a lecture on dyamic compression/sonic
maximizers and all the other crap radio stations reem their music
through. I can even duplicate the effect quite faithfully(or
hideously for you audiophiles reading this) with the rudimentary
compressor in Audacity.

What I would like to know is if anyone here knows if any compression
or limiting exists in the circuits of the Tuner sections of the
aformentioned audio equipment above - especially in consumer
electronics mfgd more recently?

Because I really don't believe that radio stations' own processing is
solely to blame for my having to crank UP the volume when going from
AM/FM > a CD or mp3 or cranking DOWN the volume after switchng from CD/
mp3/phono > AM/FM.

1. Does the tuner section on consumer stereo equipment/portables/auto
sound incorporate some compression/limiting circuitry? 2. Is the
tuner input level set intentionally louder than the line inputs(CD,
aux/mp3, etc)? 3. Or, is it a combination of 1 and 2, on top of
compression/other processing employed by the radio stations?

much appreeesh,

-ChrisCoaster
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  #2  
Old June 12th 11, 06:49 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
Peter Larsen[_3_]
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Posts: 2,295
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver

ChrisCoaster wrote:

> It's the same wherever I go. In the car, I switch from my mp3 jack or
> CD to a FM station and instinctively I have to turn the volume down by
> at least 1/3rd.


Not to worry, the FM stations will get new equipment real soon and address
that so that they can come closer to an aspect ratio of zero or less.

> At home, switching from a record, CD or tape to the radio - gotta
> crank that volume down! Ditto at the beach on my boombox.


At home perhaps you can try get away with installing an attenuator in the 4
to 6 dB range inside the contraption, but I wouldn't even consider trying
with a car radio, those likely have their innards compressed to a negative
aspect ratio and you will not bee able to make them fit the case if you open
it.

> Because I really don't believe that radio stations' own processing is
> solely to blame for my having to crank UP the volume when going from
> AM/FM > a CD or mp3 or cranking DOWN the volume after switchng from
> CD/ mp3/phono > AM/FM.


Very many years ago some design contained sensitivity trimmers to make the
phono input match FM, my Beomaster 3000 was like that, including
balance-matching via nulling of inversed channel

> 1. Does the tuner section on consumer stereo equipment/portables/auto
> sound incorporate some compression/limiting circuitry?


If so it is called "night" or similar. We can not have the populace
understandin this, so we call it something else.

> 2. Is the
> tuner input level set intentionally louder than the line inputs(CD,
> aux/mp3, etc)? 3. Or, is it a combination of 1 and 2, on top of
> compression/other processing employed by the radio stations?


FM statios are voiding the headroom asumption for clean transmission that
the tuner electronic designer made because it was in his textbook. He should
have desined for 5 dB transmission malpractice. Orban is not to blame, he
quite probably warn them in the manual. From the sound of some of the louder
FM's over here they first max the 5 band, then hit a multiband clipper and
then push it well into the tranmitters protection limiter. All have
hideously audbible compression artifacts that stand out obnoxiously on even
the poorest possible playback equipment but can become impressively loud on
a JCV loudenboomer hung on a warehouse wall with volume set to 11 and
beyond. And thus the FM stations aim is well and truly met, because THAT is
what they aim for.

> much appreeesh,


I must have some kind of mind damage from working with printing machines for
so many years, I tend to solve the problem by turning the car radio off and
just listening to the car. Perhaps I should resume my venture into
avant-garde techno ... a computer harddrive died during a file-shuffle with
all my music on it back in 1997, and I just haven't bothered to retrace ...
was in a large rythmical structure being built to support ephemerial synths
when it happened. I made a "In C" rendition in DeLuxe music on my Amiga, I
had it as midi dump, but now only the DAT tape of the Amiga sound systems
performance of it remains ....

> -ChrisCoaster


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



  #3  
Old June 12th 11, 07:02 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
Don Pearce[_3_]
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Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver

On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 20:38:13 -0700 (PDT), ChrisCoaster
> wrote:

>It's the same wherever I go. In the car, I switch from my mp3 jack or
>CD to a FM station and instinctively I have to turn the volume down by
>at least 1/3rd.
>

Just the way it is, I'm afraid. When your boombox was designed they
probably set it as near equal as they could. Since then relative
loudnesses of the media have changed, and that is what you are
hearing. If you have any technical savvy, you could perhaps get inside
the box and adjust everything to level it back up.

>At home, switching from a record, CD or tape to the radio - gotta
>crank that volume down! Ditto at the beach on my boombox.


You can **** off with your boombox at the beach. Use headphones and
stop being an inconsiderate little ****. That's the last bit of advice
you are getting.

d
  #4  
Old June 12th 11, 12:01 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
ChrisCoaster
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Posts: 409
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on myhome stereo, boombox, or car receiver

On Jun 12, 2:02*am, (Don Pearce) wrote:

> You can **** off with your boombox at the beach. Use headphones and
> stop being an inconsiderate little ****. That's the last bit of advice
> you are getting.
>
> d

_____________
Very funny Don! Actually to hear any boombox I bring to the beach you
would actually have to occupy my blanket. I've got the low-end EQ
turned up and the 4k notched down about -4dB - just like a Fletcher
Munson Curve. Or if it's my later model, I set the bass boost to max
and LOWER the volume!

At least I know when to use LF boosting circuits. LOL. The only
reason I may need to turn my box up a little is to mask Tito 60 feet
away in the parking lot with the kickers in his Pathfinder cranked up
to 11!

LOL

-ChrisCoaster

  #5  
Old June 12th 11, 12:26 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 205
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver


"ChrisCoaster" > wrote in message
...

> It's the same wherever I go. In the car, I switch from my mp3 jack or
> CD to a FM station and instinctively I have to turn the volume down by
> at least 1/3rd.


And that is on a logrithmic volume control. The actual difference is even
more.

> At home, switching from a record, CD or tape to the radio - gotta
> crank that volume down! Ditto at the beach on my boombox.


Make up some hypercompressed CDs, and play those.

> Now folks I don't need a lecture on dyamic compression/sonic
> maximizers and all the other crap radio stations reem their music
> through. I can even duplicate the effect quite faithfully(or
> hideously for you audiophiles reading this) with the rudimentary
> compressor in Audacity.


Then do it!

> What I would like to know is if anyone here knows if any compression
> or limiting exists in the circuits of the Tuner sections of the
> aformentioned audio equipment above - especially in consumer
> electronics mfgd more recently?


In another post Scott and I told you that there are no such things, and you
promptly ignored us.

On consideration, There are FM radios with "midnight swtiches", that do
introduce compression.

Some FM radios also have a kind of opposite compression circuits, in the
form of noise reduction circuits, one of which is called "DNR".

I'm not going to repeat my objections to the rest of your post's points,
because I really don't like being snubbed in public.


  #6  
Old June 13th 11, 07:00 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
Trevor
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Posts: 2,777
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver


"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Make up some hypercompressed CDs, and play those.


Just play modern CD's then, it's *impossible* to compress them any more than
they already are!

Trevor.


  #7  
Old June 13th 11, 12:20 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 205
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver


"Trevor" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Make up some hypercompressed CDs, and play those.

>
> Just play modern CD's then, it's *impossible* to compress them any more
> than they already are!



Depends which ones. There are still some well-made audio CDs being made and
sold. I don't even know that the majority of all new audio CDs are
hypercompressed. It could well be just an objectionable minority.


  #8  
Old June 13th 11, 07:29 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
Peter Larsen[_3_]
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Posts: 2,295
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver

ChrisCoaster wrote:

> And if there is a way to turn down the tuner section level relative at
> least to that of a CD test pattern, I'd like to know that as well.


Attenuator in tape insert comes to mind.

> -CC


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



  #9  
Old June 14th 11, 10:19 AM posted to rec.audio.tech
Trevor
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Posts: 2,777
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver


"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>> Make up some hypercompressed CDs, and play those.

>>
>> Just play modern CD's then, it's *impossible* to compress them any more
>> than they already are!

>
>
> Depends which ones. There are still some well-made audio CDs being made
> and sold. I don't even know that the majority of all new audio CDs are
> hypercompressed. It could well be just an objectionable minority.



OK, I'll be more specific, it's the VAST majority of pop, hip-hop, rap CD's
and a very large percentage of country etc. these days.
But yes it's a bit less for jazz, and definitely less for classical.

Trevor.


  #10  
Old June 14th 11, 03:38 PM posted to rec.audio.tech
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 24
Default Volume Level of "Tuner" vs that of "CD" "Tape" or "Phono" on my home stereo, boombox, or car receiver

Dick Pierce wrote:
> ChrisCoaster wrote:
>
>> It's the same wherever I go. In the car, I switch from my mp3 jack or
>> CD to a FM station and instinctively I have to turn the volume down by
>> at least 1/3rd.

>
> There is of course the alternative explanation that the
> average signal level generated by your MP3 device is less
> than a perfect match for the expected input level of
> your auxiliary input, and that it's a simple gain mismatch.
> If your MP3 device shows a consistent lower level on several
> playback systems, that could well be the case.


Exactly. I remember that happening when I switched from a cassette deck
to a phonograph both connected to the same power amplifier decades ago.
Cassette decks usually had gain knobs and I would have to turn them way
down to even slightly match the level of vinyl record output.

If the MP3 jack is the headphone one it makes sense that this would
happen. If the MP3 jack is USB it makes no sense other than the
manufacturers didn't bother to agree on typical gain levels.
 




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