[brianlanning]

I have two amps. One is 4x50, the other is 4x50 + 1x100. These are 4
ohm numbers. Both amps are bridgeable to 2 and 3 channels. Both are 2
ohm stable (unless bridged obviously, pretty sure they're not 1 ohm
stable).

I have 2 RF 12s in a sealed box. Both 4 ohms.

I have 2 5.25" JBL speakers that probably fit the rear deck of my
sedan. I can't remember the power rating, but I'm fairly certain
they're around 50 watts rms.

I have 2 3.5 inch coaxial speakers I can remove from another car.
Again, I can't remember the numbers, but they're probably around 50
watts rms.

Other facts: I can't use the doors as a speaker location, except maybe
to surface mount some tweeters. My dash speaker locations suck.
They're 3.5", point toward the floor, and the speaker cones are covered
by this steel plate with holes drilled in it, although I could probably
cut out the steel. There's not much room for kick panel enclosures.
And it's an old car so I'd have to custom make a kick panel enclosure
or new door panel (not going to happen).

I'd really like 5.25" or 6" components up front. I'm really looking to
get strong midbass out of this setup. I'm thinking that a real sealed
enclosure for the midrange speakers would go a long way toward getting
great midbass. The 5.25" JBLs at 50 watts that I have wouldn't sound
nearly as good as a 6" midrange component setup in a sealed box running
at 100 watts. It would be real easy to pick up a pair of those 6x9
enclosures buy some new co- or tri-axial 6x9s and bolt the boxes to the
rear deck. Alpine and pioneer have 6x9s with good specs that should
handle 100 watts, iirc.

This line of thought got me wondering whether there were pre-made boxes
similar to those 6x9 boxes, but optimized for a 6" driver. Has anyone
seen these?

Of course, I could put the 5.25" drivers in the factory holes, then get
two more 8s to serve as midbass and put them in the trunk next to the
box of 12s, or better yet, on the floor in the back seat. Would a pair
of 5.25s coaxials and a pair of 8s all at 50 watts sound/perform better
than a 6" component set at 100 watts assuming I crossed everything over
correctly?

I also have the same problem for the fronts. I could put a 6x9
enclosure on the floor under my feet in front of the front seats, then
put tweeters on the doors. Or maybe I could get one of those
under-the-seat drivers for the midbass, then just rely on the 3.5"
speakers in the dash. Or maybe that and the door tweeters as well.

I don't really care about imaging or a sound stage other than I want to
avoid the coming-from-behind sound. This will be audio only so I don't
care about 5.1 either.

I've got maybe $1000 to spend, but ideally, that has to buy a head unit
for maybe $200 and a $400 ipod also. I guess I could go over that
amount if I had a good reason.

So what would you do?

brian

[brianlanning]

brianlanning wrote:
So what would you do?

So now I'm thinking this:

tweeters on the doors with a passive crossover for about $120 and 3.5"
speakers in the dash with the steel plate cut out. That's 4 channels
on the first 4x50 amp. I'll cross over the 3.5" speakers really high,
like around 400hz, maybe higher

Then a pair of 6" bazooka tubes on the first 2x50 channel of the 5
channel amp. This would be around $200 and I'd put them near the front
seats. My only concern here is that the enclosures are ported and
probably wouldn't be happy playing between 400hz and 100hz. Anyone
with experience with these? One model of 6" bazooka is dual voice coil
so I could wire them as 2 ohms. I could go with the 8" bazooka tubes
also.

The back 2x50 channel would get 3-way 6x9s in those boxes I mentioned
bolted to the rear deck.

The entire mess crossed over at around 100hz for the 2 12s.

brian

[MOSFET]

This group is EXCELLENT at helping people with troubleshooting problems or
how to tackle technical issues with their system.

However, in two areas this group tends to be very little help: A) when
people ask what is the best so-and-so (subwoofer, amp, etc.) and B) how
should I design my system.

The REASON we suck at those two questions is precisely the same reason: they
are subjective questions that can REALLY only be answered by you as you are
the one who must live with your system.

Now, that isn't to say that you MIGHT get some useful feedback, but it is
going to tend to be more in the nature of opinions (like who makes the best
subwoofer). You see, everyone here has a slightly different philosophy
about system building and priorities. This is why (unlike home systems) car
stereo systems vary GREATLY in construction. In fact, I suspect there are
no two car systems out there that exactly match. This is part of the reason
I love car audio so much, the INCREDIBLE diversity and ingenuity involved.

That being said, I will give you MY opinion. I, like you, believe it is
VERY important for the sound to seem like it is coming from in front of the
driver. Now you say that you don't care about imaging and soundstage. I
say bull**** to that. You OBVIOUSLY have put a great deal of thought into
the construction of this system; you want the sound to come from in front
of you; AND you know what the words "imaging" and "soundstage" mean. These
three things tell me a lot about you, and that you seem similar to me when I
was starting out. You may not think you will care (hell, I wanted CASSETTE
in my first HU until a wise installer talked me out of it), but you seem
like the kind of person (like me) that WILL CARE VERY MUCH down the road.

With that in mind, it is MOST important to focus on the front stage FIRST.
Are door speakers REALLY not an option? Are you sure? Then I would
DEFINITELY look at kickpanels. Unfortunately, speakers under the seat will
not give you the kind of "upfront soundstage" you want. I helped build a
system for a friend once who could only put 4" speakers in the dash. No
matter how much we amped those speakers or tweaked with the EQ, it always
sounded like just treble was coming from the front and all the bass (even
mid and upper bass) was coming from the rear. It was VERY noticeable even
for non-stereo-buff types.

My advice to you is FIND A WAY to put 6.5" or 6" drivers up front SOMEHOW!!!
I PROMISE you, you will not regret it. Anyway, that's my $.02 on the issue.

MOSFET
"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
brianlanning wrote:
So what would you do?

So now I'm thinking this:

tweeters on the doors with a passive crossover for about $120 and 3.5"
speakers in the dash with the steel plate cut out. That's 4 channels
on the first 4x50 amp. I'll cross over the 3.5" speakers really high,
like around 400hz, maybe higher

Then a pair of 6" bazooka tubes on the first 2x50 channel of the 5
channel amp. This would be around $200 and I'd put them near the front
seats. My only concern here is that the enclosures are ported and
probably wouldn't be happy playing between 400hz and 100hz. Anyone
with experience with these? One model of 6" bazooka is dual voice coil
so I could wire them as 2 ohms. I could go with the 8" bazooka tubes
also.

The back 2x50 channel would get 3-way 6x9s in those boxes I mentioned
bolted to the rear deck.

The entire mess crossed over at around 100hz for the 2 12s.

brian

[brianlanning]

MOSFET wrote:
However, in two areas this group tends to be very little help: A) when
people ask what is the best so-and-so (subwoofer, amp, etc.) and B) how
should I design my system.

I'm mainly after creative ideas.

That being said, I will give you MY opinion. I, like you, believe it is
VERY important for the sound to seem like it is coming from in front of the
driver. Now you say that you don't care about imaging and soundstage. I
say bull**** to that. You OBVIOUSLY have put a great deal of thought into
the construction of this system; you want the sound to come from in front
of you; AND you know what the words "imaging" and "soundstage" mean. These
three things tell me a lot about you, and that you seem similar to me when I
was starting out. You may not think you will care (hell, I wanted CASSETTE
in my first HU until a wise installer talked me out of it), but you seem
like the kind of person (like me) that WILL CARE VERY MUCH down the road.

I was very much in to car stereo about 15 years ago. I had one of the
first sony pull-out cd players. I think I paid about $600 for it.
Lately, I havn't put too much consideration in to it.

With that in mind, it is MOST important to focus on the front stage FIRST.
Are door speakers REALLY not an option? Are you sure?

It's like this... It's very possible for me to fabricate two custom
door panels to fit any speaker I like. And that's what would have to
happen to get speakers in the door. There's a map pocket there now
instead of a factory speaker location. I have neither the time nor the
patience to construct a custom door panel. I know no one makes one for
this car these days. It's an 86 camry in near perfect condition with
only 70k on it. But still, it's an 86.


Then I would
DEFINITELY look at kickpanels.

Because it's an 86, there are no premade kick panels. Well, maybe
there were, but no one carries them now. That leaves the generic ones.
And there's not much room for my feet down there as it is. Again, I
could custom make something. But I'd rather not deal with it. And I
don't want to pay a shop $1000 for custom made speaker pods or door
panels for a $2000 car.

Unfortunately, speakers under the seat will
not give you the kind of "upfront soundstage" you want.

No, but the midbass would transmit through the seat nicely. When I say
I don't want the come from behind sound, I'm just looking for a neutral
balance between the front and rear. I'm not about to add a center
channel speaker or something because I just don't care that much.

I helped build a
system for a friend once who could only put 4" speakers in the dash. No
matter how much we amped those speakers or tweaked with the EQ, it always
sounded like just treble was coming from the front and all the bass (even
mid and upper bass) was coming from the rear. It was VERY noticeable even
for non-stereo-buff types.

Again, I'm not that worried about it. I could put a 6" midbass speaker
around the front seats, even in front of the front seat under my legs,
and that would be close enough. I'm looking for the best upgrade over
the 20 year old factory system with the minimum amount of car hacking
and effort.

My advice to you is FIND A WAY to put 6.5" or 6" drivers up front SOMEHOW!!!
I PROMISE you, you will not regret it. Anyway, that's my $.02 on the issue.

I discovered that mb quart makes a 6" midbass driver. It's a bit
pricey, but looks great. I also found a 6" sealed enclosure on
sounddomain. If the cabinet volume and speaker match, that could work
out well. I could also custom-make an enclosure that would hug the
floor in front of the front seats. This would keep it away from my
feet and still be up front, although not ideal. I have a complete wood
shop so making the enclusre would be trivial. But I'd still rather
just get it done than fuss with making the perfect setup. A stereo in
a car is a compromise anyway. And this car is easily the worst one
I've ever put a stereo in. So rather than fight it, I'll see what kind
of results I can get without the custom enclosures. I guess I can add
them later if it really becomes a problem.

brian

[bob wald]

50rms!!! HAHA.. you must got the best speakers on the planet...
for 5.25 n 3.5.
for those i might try 40rms n b careful.thats overpowering alil i bet.

[brianlanning]

http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFKAPPA427I


bob wald wrote:
50rms!!! HAHA.. you must got the best speakers on the planet...
for 5.25 n 3.5.
for those i might try 40rms n b careful.thats overpowering alil i bet.

[bob wald]

first i'm assuming thee speakers are acouple yrs old.
next i didnt know he was using infinity speakers.which do make some of
the best speakers in the world.costing over $80000.

[bob wald]

that speaker listed is at 2ohm also. i'm talking 4ohm. dooh'

[bob wald]

i was also talking more of a wider range speaker. thats more of
tweeter.lol