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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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Patrick Turner wrote:
"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1, but I doubt
that will ever happen because youthful love propels pregnancy rates
and is all about irrationality, and doing things without thinking of
the real issues and consequences while having an extended wish list
for affluent living."

Actually, Patrick, the economic mechanism of affluence reduces birth
rates at a rate of knots. When I came to live in Ireland, the average
Irish family had nearly four children. Now it has under two. That's
not even a replacement rate.

Other European countries, who have been rich for longer than Ireland,
have near zero net indigenous population increase, or in some cases
negative net growth. The difference is made up by immigration, until
now mostly of black and brown people, to the extent that, for
instance, it is said by demographers that in less than fifty years The
Netherlands, presently a liberal democracy, will be turned into a
Muslim nation. A recent report from Britain forecast that almost the
whole of population increase over the next couple of decades will come
from immigration. One of the unspoken reasons why the rich EU was so
keen to elect to the club the poor, undeveloped, in some cases ruined,
in many cases decidedly undemocratic, erstwhile Soviet satellite
states is because at least they can send white emigrants to be
immigrants into the richer, low-birth rate states in the EU.
Yesterday, standing for a minute by my wrist stopwatch at the bottom
of the moving stairs in a Cork store, I head Lithuanian, Latvian,
Romanian, Hungarian, Polish and some Slovak dialect spoke by people
passing me; Irish housewives typically shop alone or with one or two
children; these immigrants shop in groups of adults -- it is a social
occasion to shop, and to be able to shop in such plenitude is the
occasion of much comment. (The typical smell of a Soviet-age food
store was not baking bread, as here courtesy of Cuisine de France, but
of rotting food because those dumb clucks never got their distribution
sorted as the open market does effortlessly. I know; I toured Russia
in the Little Perestroika in the 1960s, lecturing on the uses of
market research; they shot those who took my advice.) In my own
village, 25k souls for two villages and surrounding regions, there are
now two Polish food shops (smak), a Hungarian food shop, a Lithuanian
food shop (super rye breads), whereas a shop run by an African woman
which sold maize meal and dried centipedes and so on couldn't make a
go of it. This is absolutely amazing: a quarter century ago there was
one shop which stocked decent wine -- and it also sold equine gear,
riding tack and fly-fishing gear (i.e. it catered for the gentry).

How long it will be before the birth rates of these smart, intelligent
and adaptable people fall in inverse ratio to their economic rise is
anyone's guess -- my guess is much less than one generation, probably
only ten years (I asked four of these immigrant women in the child
bearing bracket how many children they're planning. Note that it is a
trick question, because they are by default Catholics. Every single
one said two: so they understand the implications of their new-fund
wealth, and they are into family planning. QED.) In other words,
lettng those ex-unwilling-commies into the club is a temporary
population fix. (The greater benefit, in my opinion, will be the
enhanced security Europe will enjoy, well worth the price to the
taxpayer. America has generously paid for European security for over
sixty years but who knows how long that will continue now that
America's new enemy is not Russia but the Muslims?)

There is no surplus of people in the world, merely a surplus of
*unwanted* people. We don't have to import unskilled people for
labouring jobs in Ireland (yet -- there are rumblings in the building
trades already because they can't get labourers). We have a graduate
engineer sweeping the road in front of our house; it is his lifestyle
choice to be outdoor with his thoughts, passing the time of day with
everyone who passes. But Ireland, which so long exported highly
educated youngsters to all the world, now has to have more skilled
people if the growth is not to slow down or perhaps stop and reverse
itself. Those skilled immigrants in the required numbers cannot come
from places like Africa. (There is already in the UK a growing guilt
about ripping off so many trained nurses from poor nations who need
them more.)

It seems to me that the best weapon of the Muslim imperialists is
their high birth rate, not Osama bin Laden. What broke apartheid,
operated by the settled, competent and militarily overwhelming
government of one of the richest countries in the world, was not
sanctions (South Africans laughed at sanctions, the only ones that
mattered were in sports), or the attacks of terrorists and
revolutionaries (they were quashed three countries away -- too few of
them made it to the borders to be more than a joke). No, what broke
apartheid was simple demographics: the whites were rich, their birth
rates fell catastrophically, the blacks were poor, their birth rates
were high; the blacks started from a higher base anyway, so the
disparity in population sizes rocketed, and the whites, reading the
trends (1), cut a deal before the country became unmanageable.

Zero population growth is a perverse dream, and yesterday's dream at
that. If you sincerely believe that population should be stabilized,
you should stop whining about Chinese industrialization and exports,
and spend all your time helping the Chinese become rich, because that
is the surest way to a falling Chinese birthrate -- and the Chinese,
like the South African blacks, start so far ahead in the game that any
small fall in their net population growth is a triumph for all of us.

Andre Jute
Demographer

(1) Apartheid originated in a statistical study, the Tomlinson Report,
and was an attempt by separating the nations (apartheid means "a state
of separation") by colour to preserve the white nation intact. So it
was natural for those in charge fifty years later to understand when
the statistics showed that the experiment had failed altogether. It is
very rare in my experience that politicians grasp the true meaning of
statistics but the South African government's entire raison d'etre had
been born in the tables of the Tomlinson Report, and died in
statistics. I learned all that is necessary to know about the painful
rewards of being an independent thinker when as a student I made an
analysis of the Tomlinson Report and found it flawed. Eventually I was
exiled for saying, as early as 1968, that it was time to cut a deal;
over twenty years later everyone agreed with me. The prophet in his
time...
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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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On Nov 18, 3:16 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Patrick Turner wrote:

"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1, but I doubt
that will ever happen because youthful love propels pregnancy rates
and is all about irrationality, and doing things without thinking of
the real issues and consequences while having an extended wish list
for affluent living."

Actually, Patrick, the economic mechanism of affluence reduces birth
rates at a rate of knots. When I came to live in Ireland, the average
Irish family had nearly four children. Now it has under two. That's
not even a replacement rate.

Other European countries, who have been rich for longer than Ireland,
have near zero net indigenous population increase, or in some cases
negative net growth. The difference is made up by immigration, until
now mostly of black and brown people, to the extent that, for
instance, it is said by demographers that in less than fifty years The
Netherlands, presently a liberal democracy, will be turned into a
Muslim nation. A recent report from Britain forecast that almost the
whole of population increase over the next couple of decades will come
from immigration. One of the unspoken reasons why the rich EU was so
keen to elect to the club the poor, undeveloped, in some cases ruined,
in many cases decidedly undemocratic, erstwhile Soviet satellite
states is because at least they can send white emigrants to be
immigrants into the richer, low-birth rate states in the EU.
Yesterday, standing for a minute by my wrist stopwatch at the bottom
of the moving stairs in a Cork store, I head Lithuanian, Latvian,
Romanian, Hungarian, Polish and some Slovak dialect spoke by people
passing me; Irish housewives typically shop alone or with one or two
children; these immigrants shop in groups of adults -- it is a social
occasion to shop, and to be able to shop in such plenitude is the
occasion of much comment. (The typical smell of a Soviet-age food
store was not baking bread, as here courtesy of Cuisine de France, but
of rotting food because those dumb clucks never got their distribution
sorted as the open market does effortlessly. I know; I toured Russia
in the Little Perestroika in the 1960s, lecturing on the uses of
market research; they shot those who took my advice.) In my own
village, 25k souls for two villages and surrounding regions, there are
now two Polish food shops (smak), a Hungarian food shop, a Lithuanian
food shop (super rye breads), whereas a shop run by an African woman
which sold maize meal and dried centipedes and so on couldn't make a
go of it. This is absolutely amazing: a quarter century ago there was
one shop which stocked decent wine -- and it also sold equine gear,
riding tack and fly-fishing gear (i.e. it catered for the gentry).

How long it will be before the birth rates of these smart, intelligent
and adaptable people fall in inverse ratio to their economic rise is
anyone's guess -- my guess is much less than one generation, probably
only ten years (I asked four of these immigrant women in the child
bearing bracket how many children they're planning. Note that it is a
trick question, because they are by default Catholics. Every single
one said two: so they understand the implications of their new-fund
wealth, and they are into family planning. QED.) In other words,
lettng those ex-unwilling-commies into the club is a temporary
population fix. (The greater benefit, in my opinion, will be the
enhanced security Europe will enjoy, well worth the price to the
taxpayer. America has generously paid for European security for over
sixty years but who knows how long that will continue now that
America's new enemy is not Russia but the Muslims?)

There is no surplus of people in the world, merely a surplus of
*unwanted* people. We don't have to import unskilled people for
labouring jobs in Ireland (yet -- there are rumblings in the building
trades already because they can't get labourers). We have a graduate
engineer sweeping the road in front of our house; it is his lifestyle
choice to be outdoor with his thoughts, passing the time of day with
everyone who passes. But Ireland, which so long exported highly
educated youngsters to all the world, now has to have more skilled
people if the growth is not to slow down or perhaps stop and reverse
itself. Those skilled immigrants in the required numbers cannot come
from places like Africa. (There is already in the UK a growing guilt
about ripping off so many trained nurses from poor nations who need
them more.)

It seems to me that the best weapon of the Muslim imperialists is
their high birth rate, not Osama bin Laden. What broke apartheid,
operated by the settled, competent and militarily overwhelming
government of one of the richest countries in the world, was not
sanctions (South Africans laughed at sanctions, the only ones that
mattered were in sports), or the attacks of terrorists and
revolutionaries (they were quashed three countries away -- too few of
them made it to the borders to be more than a joke). No, what broke
apartheid was simple demographics: the whites were rich, their birth
rates fell catastrophically, the blacks were poor, their birth rates
were high; the blacks started from a higher base anyway, so the
disparity in population sizes rocketed, and the whites, reading the
trends (1), cut a deal before the country became unmanageable.

Zero population growth is a perverse dream, and yesterday's dream at
that. If you sincerely believe that population should be stabilized,
you should stop whining about Chinese industrialization and exports,
and spend all your time helping the Chinese become rich, because that
is the surest way to a falling Chinese birthrate -- and the Chinese,
like the South African blacks, start so far ahead in the game that any
small fall in their net population growth is a triumph for all of us.

Andre Jute
Demographer

(1) Apartheid originated in a statistical study, the Tomlinson Report,
and was an attempt by separating the nations (apartheid means "a state
of separation") by colour to preserve the white nation intact. So it
was natural for those in charge fifty years later to understand when
the statistics showed that the experiment had failed altogether. It is
very rare in my experience that politicians grasp the true meaning of
statistics but the South African government's entire raison d'etre had
been born in the tables of the Tomlinson Report, and died in
statistics. I learned all that is necessary to know about the painful
rewards of being an independent thinker when as a student I made an
analysis of the Tomlinson Report and found it flawed. Eventually I was
exiled for saying, as early as 1968, that it was time to cut a deal;
over twenty years later everyone agreed with me. The prophet in his
time...


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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Andre Jute wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:
"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1,


Dream on.

Graham

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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite
as relevant to tubes and tube lore.

Andre, you are a hack. And from the drivel here, a particularly poor
one... no surprise.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

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John Byrns John Byrns is offline
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In article
,
Peter Wieck wrote:

Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite
as relevant to tubes and tube lore.


I have not clicked on any of these "MI5" posts that are going around,
can you provide a quick synopsis of what they say?


Regards,
John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/


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Trevor Wilson[_2_] Trevor Wilson[_2_] is offline
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"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
Patrick Turner wrote:
"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1, but I doubt
that will ever happen because youthful love propels pregnancy rates
and is all about irrationality, and doing things without thinking of
the real issues and consequences while having an extended wish list
for affluent living."

Actually, Patrick, the economic mechanism of affluence reduces birth
rates at a rate of knots. When I came to live in Ireland, the average
Irish family had nearly four children. Now it has under two. That's
not even a replacement rate.


SNIP A bunch of well thought through comments. I agree.

Trevor Wilson


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mick mick is offline
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:10:49 -0600, John Byrns wrote:

In article
,
Peter Wieck wrote:

Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite as
relevant to tubes and tube lore.


I have not clicked on any of these "MI5" posts that are going around,
can you provide a quick synopsis of what they say?



Not since I discovered the "Ignore Author" option in Pan! ;-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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On Nov 18, 7:10 pm, John Byrns wrote:
In article
,
Peter Wieck wrote:

Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite
as relevant to tubes and tube lore.


Did the poor dumb**** Worthless Wiecky really write that? I note that
he hasn't argued a single one of my points; he isn't capable of it.
And I suppose everyone else has noted that Worthless Peter Wieck gave
four years of his spare time to hounding a "hack". Poor bugger -- what
an exciting life he must lead!

I have not clicked on any of these "MI5" posts that are going around,
can you provide a quick synopsis of what they say?


I took a quick glance once at about half a dozen and couldn't make
head or tail of it because the writer assumes you have conscientiously
followed the story from the beginning, all 500 odd episodes.

However, whatever his case is, it probably is no more than a bee in
the bonnet. I have close experience of the other British intelligence
service, SIS or MI6, who had their buddies in ASIO, Australian
Intelligence, confiscate the manuscript of my novel Reverse Negative
which gave too many pointers to the traitor Blunt when he was still
the Queen's advisor on paintings. I put the manuscript behind a loose
overhead cupboard door and the guy who took it out required 16
stitches in his forehead. I was just amusing myself kicking the
enemies of liberty in the teeth; I had already sent copies to places
they have no influence.

Nor is MI5 likely to persecute some little guy. The Peter Wright
affair is instructive. Wright wrote a book confessing to unauthorized
activities surveilling Labour Party leftwingers back in the Wilson
premiership. It was published by Heinemann where the guy in charge of
the book was my old agent and later publisher at Secker, Peter Grose,
by now elevated to deputy chairman of Heinemann. After some attempts
by a British senior civil servant, who was caught out in his own words
"being economical with the truth" to the Australian government in his
efforts to get Wright, a New Zealander then living in Oz in his
retirement, extradited, the British government went to court to
suppress parts of the book. The security services didn't send anyone
to beat up Wright or the equally intransigent Grose (another abrasive
Australian). Even when Grose's cottage in Wales was burnt down,
everyone knew it was the local Welsh nationalist hooligans, not the
British security service. In Britain the establishment might close
ranks, but unless you're a major drugs smuggler or an IRA or Muslim
bomber, in which case you might be shot without a trial (but by
soldiers in SAS, the British elite commandos, not by MI6 or MI5
officers and generally not even by Special Branch, the executive arm
of MI5, equivalent to the FBI), the security services don't indulge in
violence or even too many extralegal activities; this is given in the
hope that you already understand that British laws and British courts
give the State much more power over the lives of individuals than is
the case in the USA, so that the police and the security service can
get away with more, as long as they are discreet. It isn't discreet to
go after little guys with gestapo methods when you can use the courts
instead.

Regards,
John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/


HTH.

Andre Jute
"I was at a board meeting for the LA Chapter of the Audio Engineering
Society last night on XM Satellite radio audio and data transmission.
Sadly, we missed you there, and at the SMPTE and Acoustical Society
recent meetings as well. Everyone was asking, 'Where is that wonderful
Andre Jute? The world just doesn't rotate without him...'" -- John
Mayberry, Emmaco
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB,was Against Better Judgment....but unable to resist...

On Nov 18, 9:12 pm, Bret Ludwig wrote:
Against his better judgment, Bret writes:

On Nov 18, 9:16 am, Andre Jute wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:


"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1, but I doubt
that will ever happen because youthful love propels pregnancy rates
and is all about irrationality, and doing things without thinking of
the real issues and consequences while having an extended wish list
for affluent living."


Actually, Patrick, the economic mechanism of affluence reduces birth
rates at a rate of knots. When I came to live in Ireland, the average
Irish family had nearly four children. Now it has under two. That's
not even a replacement rate.


That is true.


Should I care whether you agree with me, Ludwig?

Other European countries, who have been rich for longer than Ireland,
have near zero net indigenous population increase, or in some cases
negative net growth. The difference is made up by immigration, until
now mostly of black and brown people, to the extent that, for
instance, it is said by demographers that in less than fifty years The
Netherlands, presently a liberal democracy, will be turned into a
Muslim nation. A recent report from Britain forecast that almost the
whole of population increase over the next couple of decades will come
from immigration. One of the unspoken reasons why the rich EU was so
keen to elect to the club the poor, undeveloped, in some cases ruined,
in many cases decidedly undemocratic, erstwhile Soviet satellite
states is because at least they can send white emigrants to be
immigrants into the richer, low-birth rate states in the EU.
Yesterday, standing for a minute by my wrist stopwatch at the bottom
of the moving stairs in a Cork store, I head Lithuanian, Latvian,
Romanian, Hungarian, Polish and some Slovak dialect spoke by people
passing me; Irish housewives typically shop alone or with one or two
children; these immigrants shop in groups of adults -- it is a social
occasion to shop, and to be able to shop in such plenitude is the
occasion of much comment. (The typical smell of a Soviet-age food
store was not baking bread, as here courtesy of Cuisine de France, but
of rotting food because those dumb clucks never got their distribution
sorted as the open market does effortlessly. I know; I toured Russia
in the Little Perestroika in the 1960s, lecturing on the uses of
market research; they shot those who took my advice.) In my own
village, 25k souls for two villages and surrounding regions, there are
now two Polish food shops (smak), a Hungarian food shop, a Lithuanian
food shop (super rye breads), whereas a shop run by an African woman
which sold maize meal and dried centipedes and so on couldn't make a
go of it. This is absolutely amazing: a quarter century ago there was
one shop which stocked decent wine -- and it also sold equine gear,
riding tack and fly-fishing gear (i.e. it catered for the gentry).


Fair enough. But not a long term answer.


Why don't you read to the end, Ludwig? I've already made the point, in
the very next paragraph.

How long it will be before the birth rates of these smart, intelligent
and adaptable people fall in inverse ratio to their economic rise is
anyone's guess -- my guess is much less than one generation, probably
only ten years (I asked four of these immigrant women in the child
bearing bracket how many children they're planning. Note that it is a
trick question, because they are by default Catholics. Every single
one said two: so they understand the implications of their new-fund
wealth, and they are into family planning. QED.) In other words,
lettng those ex-unwilling-commies into the club is a temporary
population fix. (The greater benefit, in my opinion, will be the
enhanced security Europe will enjoy, well worth the price to the
taxpayer. America has generously paid for European security for over
sixty years but who knows how long that will continue now that
America's new enemy is not Russia but the Muslims?)


There is no surplus of people in the world, merely a surplus of
*unwanted* people.


Unwanted and for good reason: ineducable, unassimilable,
unproductive, and often predisposed to violence, stupidity, or
indolence or some combination thereof.


I wasn't talking about American rednecks, Ludwig. You'll have more
experience of them than I do. With hillbillies it seems possible that
mountain networking aka incest has lowered the mean intelligence.

But if you're talking about blacks or Indians or Chinese or other
"ethnics", I don't believe they're genetically less brainy than white
people, or lazier, or whatever. You might look for environmental and
cultural factors instead.

We don't have to import unskilled people for
labouring jobs in Ireland (yet -- there are rumblings in the building
trades already because they can't get labourers). We have a graduate
engineer sweeping the road in front of our house; it is his lifestyle
choice to be outdoor with his thoughts, passing the time of day with
everyone who passes. But Ireland, which so long exported highly
educated youngsters to all the world, now has to have more skilled
people if the growth is not to slow down or perhaps stop and reverse
itself. Those skilled immigrants in the required numbers cannot come
from places like Africa. (There is already in the UK a growing guilt
about ripping off so many trained nurses from poor nations who need
them more.)


Yes. The First World is draining off the very people the Third and
Fourth World needs the most-the high IQ fraction. In and of itself a
crime against those peoples.

It seems to me that the best weapon of the Muslim imperialists is
their high birth rate, not Osama bin Laden.


That is correct.


Are you a parrot, Ludwig? Or have you just stolen from me so long you
cannot stop saying "yes" every time I open my mouth?

What broke apartheid,
operated by the settled, competent and militarily overwhelming
government of one of the richest countries in the world, was not
sanctions (South Africans laughed at sanctions, the only ones that
mattered were in sports), or the attacks of terrorists and
revolutionaries (they were quashed three countries away -- too few of
them made it to the borders to be more than a joke). No, what broke
apartheid was simple demographics: the whites were rich, their birth
rates fell catastrophically, the blacks were poor, their birth rates
were high; the blacks started from a higher base anyway, so the
disparity in population sizes rocketed, and the whites, reading the
trends (1), cut a deal before the country became unmanageable.


The blacks had always had high birth rates, and high death rates too.
When white medicine and the relative prosperity of the meager wages
they paid the whites kept more alive longer, and longer to breed, the
differential started.

No blacks were in most of South Africa when the Boers got there.


This is not true. When the Cape Dutch started their Great Trek of 1836
to escape British rule, the blacks had reached the Fish River, about
halfway between Cape Town and Durban. The end of the 1836 Great Trek
defined the borders of modern-day South Africa with the founding of
the Boer republics of the Transvaal and the Free State. At this point
the nation of Basutoland, now Lesotho, already existed and was
enclosed between the Free State and the British colony of Natal.

All of what follows from Ludwig is diametrically opposed to the truth.
Some of the finest South African historians are relatives of mine, and
I studied these matters under some outstanding demographers, including
a Nobel Prize winner. Bret Ludwig is talking through his arse, as
usual. But let's read all of the paragraph before I correct him:

Instead of simply keeping them out and having an all white society,
they imported blacks to do physical work, one motivation being they
felt it was the Christian thing to do so they could evangelize and
instruct them. They however did not want to become black, over time,
so they instituted a policy of separateness, or in Dutch, apartheid.


All of the above is diametrically opposed to the truth:

Instead of simply keeping them out and having an all white society,
they imported blacks to do physical work,


You're an idiot, Ludwig, without even the gumption to look up the
known facts. The early Dutch were slave owners. They imported
Indonesians and Malays to do the work in their vineyards and on their
farms. They simply murdered the indigenous people, the Hottentots (now
politically correctly the San people) as unsuitable for farm work, in
the same way the Australians murdered their aborigines. As the whites
murdered the San from the South, so the invading blacks murdered them
from the North. Nor did the Dutch want the blacks: they were too slow
to learn, they ate too much. Nor did they have to "import blacks";
they could buy them if they wanted them off Arab slave ships in Cape
Town harbour; they didn't want them.

one motivation being they
felt it was the Christian thing to do so they could evangelize and
instruct them.


You're confusing these Dutch farmers with benign British imperialists
like Alfred Milner who felt it was their Christian duty to bring
civilization and Christianity to lesser peoples. The Dutch of the Cape
read their Bibles and discovered that the blacks were the sons of Ham,
being punished by God to eternity; they didn't have the hubris of the
British to suppose that they could change God's will, so they felt no
duty to the blacks.

It was in a later period after the Union of South Africa in 1910,
under British influence, that a measure of paternalism crept into
native administration.

They however did not want to become black, over time,


There was no danger at the time that they would "become black over
time". That was four decades later, when the gold and diamond mines
attracted many blacks to the towns where they could find work.

so they instituted a policy of separateness, or in Dutch, apartheid.


Not at all. In the new mining towns blacks and whites lived cheek by
jowl, according to income and class. Apartheid was instituted as a
policy many years later by a British-leaning party under Smuts, with a
Group Areas Act in the 1930s. Apartheid as deliberate social
engineering was not instituted until after WW2, definitely by the
Afrikaners, but of the an entirely opposite, anti-British persausion.
The word "apartheid" is not Dutch but Afrikaans.

Demographics aside, the separateness policy worked to the
satisfaction of all


You're crazy or totally ignorant, Ludwig. The separateness policy,
both before and after WW2 -- under separate and violently opposed
governments, remember -- did not work to the satisfaction of any party
whatsoever, not the blacks (who were and felt oppressed by it), not
the whites (who wanted the blacks for labour), not even the
magistrates administering it (who felt a Christian duty not always
reflected in the office of the Minister of Native Affairs). It was a
broken policy from the beginning, made workable only because the
Afrikaners were incorruptible and had inherited a totally solid
British bureaucracy -- conditions under which even a broken policy can
be made to work for decades.

until inside and outside agitation started. Still,
what finally broke them was allowing televitz in. Hollywood TV and
visual real time outside opinion,


Ludwig, you really want to read a little history. It's exciting stuff,
really, riots in the streets, union organiser shots down by tanks, und
so weiter. Afrikaners were used long before apartheid to shrug off
moral blackmail and the disapproval of what they considered their
moral and intellectual inferiors; "outside agitation" was only noticed
by a few internationalists and cosmopolitans, like me, and I didn't
bother to explain it at home unless I was paid plenty to do so,
because it was a hard sell. (That's why sporting boycotts hurt when
economic boycotts were a cocktail party joke for people who turned up
in Maserati which they weren't supposed to be able to import...)

along with penetration of the Dutch
Reformed Church hierarchy-ZA had a near-monoculture of ecclesiasty,


Oh dear. Actually, South Africa had by definition total religious
tolerance. (Apartheid presumed most powerfully that the blacks would
maintain their tribal customs including their tribal religions.)

unlike the American South with its fractious dozens of fundamentalist
Protestant outfits which could never be "taken over" by a clique, as
deviation was simply went around (why, for example, only a minority of
Scots-Irish Presbyterians stayed Presbyterian in the South as
Presbyterianism became mainline)-


You're an idiot, Ludwig. Andries Treurnich, a DR minister and a
government minister and editor of a most influential paper, led a
breakaway church from the Dutch Reformed, and led the breakaway
opposition to the Nationalists because he really believed the sons of
Ham should be punished. And very successfully too: his party survived
to the very end.

finally broke the will of the people
for self-rule and Black rule was brought in.


Nobody's will was broken, Ludwig. They saw the inevitable, and they
cut a deal. Afrikaners are the masters of cutting a beneficial deal
from a totally untenable position. Example: The British beat the ****
out of the two Boer republics in 1899-1902 -- and by 1910 gave three
Boer generals back not only the two republics (Transvaal and Orange
Free State) but two British colonies as well (the Cape and Natal) to
form the Union of South Africa under Afrikaner control. Four years
later one of those Boer generals sat in the British Cabinet, total
membership five (among other things, he founded the Royal Air Force
for the British). Same thing with the blacks taking over; where else
in Africa did the whites essentially retain all their privileges? You
haven't studied the details, Ludwig, or you wouldn't be making a fool
of yourself with these farfetched opinions.

(That was a poorly constructed sentence but I am too lazy to fix
it.)

The consequence of Black rule in ZA and even more especially in
Zimbabwe has been so obvious I do not need to comment on it,


You just haven't got it, Ludwig. The Rhodesian whites left Rhodesia
with £250 and black soldiers pawing through their wives' underwear at
the border when it became Zimbabwe; I gave many of those people jobs
and was very happy to have trained people. The South Africans stayed
in charge of everything that matters because they had left themselves
time to explain to the new government precisely what would happen if
there was a white exodus. They cut the deal that needed to be cut,
their way.

with the
exception that for all their manifold flaws, the Boers did voluntarily
dismantle and utterly destroy their nuclear weapons, plans,
fabrication facilities and all, as they rightly feared what would
happen if a Black state with nuclear weapons became reality.

Zero population growth is a perverse dream, and yesterday's dream at
that. If you sincerely believe that population should be stabilized,
you should stop whining about Chinese industrialization and exports,
and spend all your time helping the Chinese become rich, because that
is the surest way to a falling Chinese birthrate -- and the Chinese,
like the South African blacks, start so far ahead in the game that any
small fall in their net population growth is a triumph for all of us.


Andre Jute
Demographer


(1) Apartheid originated in a statistical study, the Tomlinson Report,
and was an attempt by separating the nations (apartheid means "a state
of separation") by colour to preserve the white nation intact. So it
was natural for those in charge fifty years later to understand when
the statistics showed that the experiment had failed altogether. It is
very rare in my experience that politicians grasp the true meaning of
statistics but the South African government's entire raison d'etre had
been born in the tables of the Tomlinson Report, and died in
statistics. I learned all that is necessary to know about the painful
rewards of being an independent thinker when as a student I made an
analysis of the Tomlinson Report and found it flawed. Eventually I was
exiled for saying, as early as 1968, that it was time to cut a deal;
over twenty years later everyone agreed with me. The prophet in his
time...


A deal, yes. Not that one. The deal should have been an absolutely
white state and an absolutely black and mixed and colored one. No
black labor, no white charity.


What you describe, Ludwig, is apartheid, which had already failed. And
you musn't imagine it failed towards the end. It was clear that it
failed right at the beginning, less than a decade after it's formal
declaration in 1948. By the middle 1950s the evil genie of apartheid,
Hendrik Verwoerd, was already openly doing anything he could to
disadvantage the urban blacks -- because he saw that unless he could
drive them back to the black homelands, apartheid would fail. In fact,
it had already failed.

Years later, I heard one cabinet minister snarl at another outside the
Cabinet Office, "Oh yes? You're going to demand that Afrikaner mothers
do their patriotic duty and calf a snotty brat every year for twenty
years?" The other guy was notoriously hot-tempered but on this
occasions he just took a deep breath, and then he said, "We can't even
be elected if we send their servants back to the homelands." The
entire point of apartheid was that its constituency, which in the
beginning had been poor whites worrying about their hardscrabble farms
and their jobs in starvation times (the National Party was officially
a *socialist* party), by the time of the institution of apartheid in
1948 with the election of the Nationalist party to office, had become
an electorate of rich farmers and middle class professionals,
intellectuals the lot of them (an Afrikaner is born an intellectual
the same way an Irishman is); Afrikaner women, who had always modestly
been equals, would not, repeat not, breed on demand, and they would
not, repeat not, vote for a government that took away their birthright
of the sort of easy life for which trained servants are the first
requirement.

In effect the deal the whites cut kept for them what they most want
and puts the blame for administrative failures to provide for the less
fortunate on the guys who spent decades whining that not enough was
being done! Sounds like a sweet deal to me. (For sure, South Africa
isn't the nice safe country I grew up in, where we left the front door
unlocked when we went to the beach for three weeks. But people
accommodate.)

It's all about psychology and economics, Ludwig, and very little to do
with genetics or Bible study. Sorry to disappoint you.

Andre Jute
Who was there and kept his eyes and ears open

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On Nov 18, 2:10 pm, John Byrns wrote:
In article
,
Peter Wieck wrote:

Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite
as relevant to tubes and tube lore.


I have not clicked on any of these "MI5" posts that are going around,
can you provide a quick synopsis of what they say?

Regards,
John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/


Sorry, don't read the crap after the first one months ago. Paranoic to
say the least - just like your charge, but no pretenses - unlike your
charge.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


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Andre Jute wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:
"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1, but I doubt
that will ever happen because youthful love propels pregnancy rates
and is all about irrationality, and doing things without thinking of
the real issues and consequences while having an extended wish list
for affluent living."

Actually, Patrick, the economic mechanism of affluence reduces birth
rates at a rate of knots. When I came to live in Ireland, the average
Irish family had nearly four children. Now it has under two. That's
not even a replacement rate.

Other European countries, who have been rich for longer than Ireland,
have near zero net indigenous population increase, or in some cases
negative net growth. The difference is made up by immigration, until
now mostly of black and brown people, to the extent that, for
instance, it is said by demographers that in less than fifty years The
Netherlands, presently a liberal democracy, will be turned into a
Muslim nation. A recent report from Britain forecast that almost the
whole of population increase over the next couple of decades will come
from immigration. One of the unspoken reasons why the rich EU was so
keen to elect to the club the poor, undeveloped, in some cases ruined,
in many cases decidedly undemocratic, erstwhile Soviet satellite
states is because at least they can send white emigrants to be
immigrants into the richer, low-birth rate states in the EU.
Yesterday, standing for a minute by my wrist stopwatch at the bottom
of the moving stairs in a Cork store, I head Lithuanian, Latvian,
Romanian, Hungarian, Polish and some Slovak dialect spoke by people
passing me; Irish housewives typically shop alone or with one or two
children; these immigrants shop in groups of adults -- it is a social
occasion to shop, and to be able to shop in such plenitude is the
occasion of much comment. (The typical smell of a Soviet-age food
store was not baking bread, as here courtesy of Cuisine de France, but
of rotting food because those dumb clucks never got their distribution
sorted as the open market does effortlessly. I know; I toured Russia
in the Little Perestroika in the 1960s, lecturing on the uses of
market research; they shot those who took my advice.) In my own
village, 25k souls for two villages and surrounding regions, there are
now two Polish food shops (smak), a Hungarian food shop, a Lithuanian
food shop (super rye breads), whereas a shop run by an African woman
which sold maize meal and dried centipedes and so on couldn't make a
go of it. This is absolutely amazing: a quarter century ago there was
one shop which stocked decent wine -- and it also sold equine gear,
riding tack and fly-fishing gear (i.e. it catered for the gentry).

How long it will be before the birth rates of these smart, intelligent
and adaptable people fall in inverse ratio to their economic rise is
anyone's guess -- my guess is much less than one generation, probably
only ten years (I asked four of these immigrant women in the child
bearing bracket how many children they're planning. Note that it is a
trick question, because they are by default Catholics. Every single
one said two: so they understand the implications of their new-fund
wealth, and they are into family planning. QED.) In other words,
lettng those ex-unwilling-commies into the club is a temporary
population fix. (The greater benefit, in my opinion, will be the
enhanced security Europe will enjoy, well worth the price to the
taxpayer. America has generously paid for European security for over
sixty years but who knows how long that will continue now that
America's new enemy is not Russia but the Muslims?)

There is no surplus of people in the world, merely a surplus of
*unwanted* people. We don't have to import unskilled people for
labouring jobs in Ireland (yet -- there are rumblings in the building
trades already because they can't get labourers). We have a graduate
engineer sweeping the road in front of our house; it is his lifestyle
choice to be outdoor with his thoughts, passing the time of day with
everyone who passes. But Ireland, which so long exported highly
educated youngsters to all the world, now has to have more skilled
people if the growth is not to slow down or perhaps stop and reverse
itself. Those skilled immigrants in the required numbers cannot come
from places like Africa. (There is already in the UK a growing guilt
about ripping off so many trained nurses from poor nations who need
them more.)

It seems to me that the best weapon of the Muslim imperialists is
their high birth rate, not Osama bin Laden. What broke apartheid,
operated by the settled, competent and militarily overwhelming
government of one of the richest countries in the world, was not
sanctions (South Africans laughed at sanctions, the only ones that
mattered were in sports), or the attacks of terrorists and
revolutionaries (they were quashed three countries away -- too few of
them made it to the borders to be more than a joke). No, what broke
apartheid was simple demographics: the whites were rich, their birth
rates fell catastrophically, the blacks were poor, their birth rates
were high; the blacks started from a higher base anyway, so the
disparity in population sizes rocketed, and the whites, reading the
trends (1), cut a deal before the country became unmanageable.

Zero population growth is a perverse dream, and yesterday's dream at
that. If you sincerely believe that population should be stabilized,
you should stop whining about Chinese industrialization and exports,
and spend all your time helping the Chinese become rich, because that
is the surest way to a falling Chinese birthrate -- and the Chinese,
like the South African blacks, start so far ahead in the game that any
small fall in their net population growth is a triumph for all of us.



OK, you make some interesting strong points.

If the Chinese want to get rich making superb OPT designs taken from my
website for free
instead of pumping their missus to make babies, well and good,
wonderful.

But the human species breeding cycle is a product of irrational
decisions by young ppl
in love who are incapable of rational decisions because love blinds
them.

China began a one child per family stratergy a long time ago. Were it
not for that policy,
irresepective of education and wealth, there would be an extra billion
to feed, and
now all wanting to have a western standard of living which means a huge
increase
in consumption of the world's resources.
The present Chinese and Indian industrial - political - consumer driven
revolution
looks set to eventually to spread to all ppl of the world. While this
seems a very just
distribution of wealth and equal opportunities, the monumental increase
in demand for
raw materials looks set to impoverish the natural world.

I agree that on the way to wealth and education, ppl learn to stop
breeding.
Its going to take two or three generations in the more "backward"
illcalcitrant countries of the world.
In Oz, 35% of females born now look set to never breed.
Its due to creeping personal dysfunctionalty with relationships.
No doubt their lives will be filled with working and living,
and will have all the worth of the men they accompany without needing to
breed,
which is a subconscious attempt at immortality. The sooner ppl realize
that
once you are born, you begin to die, the better.
But a significant proportion of starry eyed young couples are all
positive, wanting nothing less than a
huge house and 3 children, and when they turn 100 they will talk proudly
about their great grandchildren's
latest achievements as they strut around the golf course, enabled by the
latest brain transplants/regenerations and knee joint
treatments after 2077.


One wonders if the Muslims stop making wars against the west simply
by out-breeding the west. Iran seems to have a low birthrate,
but wants nuclear power, and of course the Bomb, and now all those other
surrounding countries want a bomb now.
Maybe they'll discover their own nuclear form of birth control.
Here in Oz, we have a Liberal Govt wanting us to go nuclear, as a
greenhouse fix,
and of course WE will have an option to build nuclear weapons just like
Iran.

The sooner we teach kids that life is likely to dish up any manner of
crazy and uncontrollable situations, the better.
I can understand Iran building a Bomb. Its a sure way to stop the US
from invading their country.
Its unlikely, but Iran's mullahs see they need to deter the US from
doing what they have in Iraq.
And maybe those Muslims get away with vaporizing Isreal at the cost of
vaporizing some millions of their own.
Muslims tend to fight on forever, and after losing millions will build
up their
populations again, content that Israel is a dust bowl.
Nobody really knows what will happen in the middle east as the oil runs
out and the price goes higher,
and the "balance of power" oscillates around.

But the skirmishes in the ME are only one little thing compared to the
worldwide effect of everyone
having a dandy way of life, ie, all connected to an electricity grid and
everyone
using 1 kilowatt of power 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and driving
an average 10,000 km per anum.

Sure population increase rates looks set to decline, but by the time
population stabilizes,
perhaps there might be 10 billions.

Don't ask me how 10 billion all living like kings and queens can survive
the next 10,000 years,
or 100,000 years.

I have not a clue, but some serious changes have to be made along
whatever way exists ahead,
or else a full stop is inevitable sooner rather than later.

I won't be here to find out about it all.

NFB mechanisms exist to act against too much of anything in any system,
but sometimes they
don't work all that well and the system simply dies.
ZPG means less system stress than having increasing PG, but what if we
did have a reducing number of
population, and they all get rich? what then? is not that going to be
just as stressful as having ZPG
muddling along as they do now, mainly in povety?
We may realize in 3007 that it was a complete folly to think we were
ever doing enough
to limit our population, and in hindsight a few nuclear wars and plagues
would have
improved life far more than having a constant population of 6 billion
rich folks
century after century.
We get a cold and the system fights the virus, and the virus mutates,
and the eventually the
body survives the cold. But it doesn't survive some viruses as well.

The Planet has Human Excessive Presence Syndrome, or HEPS, and Earth is
getting a temperature.
This is usually followed by a fever, and only God knows what the full
reaction
will be by the World Immune System. Some Patients just die when the
virus kills its host.

Try telling that to the newly weds at a wedding costing 40 grand.
They don't wanna know.


Patick Turner











Andre Jute
Demographer

(1) Apartheid originated in a statistical study, the Tomlinson Report,
and was an attempt by separating the nations (apartheid means "a state
of separation") by colour to preserve the white nation intact. So it
was natural for those in charge fifty years later to understand when
the statistics showed that the experiment had failed altogether. It is
very rare in my experience that politicians grasp the true meaning of
statistics but the South African government's entire raison d'etre had
been born in the tables of the Tomlinson Report, and died in
statistics. I learned all that is necessary to know about the painful
rewards of being an independent thinker when as a student I made an
analysis of the Tomlinson Report and found it flawed. Eventually I was
exiled for saying, as early as 1968, that it was time to cut a deal;
over twenty years later everyone agreed with me. The prophet in his
time...

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Hacked tripe Snipped

And

The only point(s) you have are on the top of your head - and either a
good wig or a proper haircut will manage that. But, as to your written
tripe - you as is typical have stated the obvious and cribbed work
done by others. Accordingly there are no original, creative or
contributory points to discuss.

None to do with tubes for a start, and this despite your many
protestations as to your vast and multiple contributions to the lore.

And those as to population & demographics - well - so what? Not a
thing you wrote is in any way interpretive, different, creative,
contributory or even more clearly stated than what has been done by
(many) others and better.

So, there is absolutely no reason to dignify your writings with a
considered reply.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



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Dersu Uzala Dersu Uzala is offline
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It is obvious to many that the world's population has overshot the world's
carrying capacity. As the industrial countries demand for resources expands
beyond the ability to increase the extraction rate of resources, there will be
an economic collaspe that will make the great depression look like a church
picnic. The economy depends upon continued growth, and when the inputs can not
increase, the stock market will crash. Many companies that depend upon growth
will suddenly become hugely over-valued when no further growth is possible.

http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/
http://www.kunstler.com/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...kstorenow57-20
http://www.theoildrum.com/
http://www.oilempire.us/
http://dieoff.org/

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I notice that the wiecked one almost never contributes a post to a technical
thread, especially technical threads started by the Boss, Professor Turner,
John Byrns, Iain Churches, etc. because I assumed they are generally over
his head, technically. He will, however, always post to the other type
threads with a childish and snitsy remark ...and this is the guy that wants
to take over the group and be admired by all! I would love and challenge him
to write an intelligent, creative, and poignant technical post besides
cleaning and repairing old radios parts. In the meanwhile I suggest that no
one holds their breath and just try and put up with his banal and trite
banter.

west

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite
as relevant to tubes and tube lore.

Andre, you are a hack. And from the drivel here, a particularly poor
one... no surprise.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



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you always accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. The Boss has
posted more technical articles in a month than you posted in a your pathetic
lifetime. Check the archives gents in case anyone doubts. Weiked, as usual
displays a classic case of Projection.

west

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
Hacked tripe Snipped

And

The only point(s) you have are on the top of your head - and either a
good wig or a proper haircut will manage that. But, as to your written
tripe - you as is typical have stated the obvious and cribbed work
done by others. Accordingly there are no original, creative or
contributory points to discuss.

None to do with tubes for a start, and this despite your many
protestations as to your vast and multiple contributions to the lore.

And those as to population & demographics - well - so what? Not a
thing you wrote is in any way interpretive, different, creative,
contributory or even more clearly stated than what has been done by
(many) others and better.

So, there is absolutely no reason to dignify your writings with a
considered reply.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA







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On Nov 19, 1:30 am, "West" wrote:
you always accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. The Boss has
posted more technical articles in a month


Rather than I do so, just point to a single "technical" article - one
that is not a rehash of the work of others would also be a refreshing
change. I am sure he has done so - but if one really looks at what is
posted it does not appear to be either new, different, or in any way
other than mere trolling. Your interpretation may vary so I am giving
you the chance to prove your contention.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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Peter Wieck wrote:

Hacked tripe Snipped

And

The only point(s) you have are on the top of your head - and either a
good wig or a proper haircut will manage that. But, as to your written
tripe - you as is typical have stated the obvious and cribbed work
done by others. Accordingly there are no original, creative or
contributory points to discuss.

None to do with tubes for a start, and this despite your many
protestations as to your vast and multiple contributions to the lore.

And those as to population & demographics - well - so what? Not a
thing you wrote is in any way interpretive, different, creative,
contributory or even more clearly stated than what has been done by
(many) others and better.

So, there is absolutely no reason to dignify your writings with a
considered reply.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


I know its an OT subject but I don't see that anything
"you wrote is in any way interpretive, different, creative,
contributory or even more clearly stated than what has been done by
many) others and better."

So basically, you see little in AJ's post which warrants your
disagreement,
and what you are really saying is that you have seen such commentary on
mankind's situation
before, maybe better or worse, but you agree with basic sentiments
expressed.

However, this is of little importance in a group devoted to tubecraft.
But surely can we not just agree to dissagree on the OT stuff?

Nobody is going to mind when you say someone else's OT post is tripe
because you don't say why, which would inform us, were you to be able to
do it
without being refuted by all gathered here. There are indeed a variety
of
opinions about mankinds progress and means to an end and forums give air
to them.
The world won't change as a result of anything AJ or you, or I say.
I just like to share some views to comtemplate.

I design amplifiers by considering numerous ways of arranging components
and
what I draw up initially is never as considered as what eventually comes
out of the
workshop, and thus never as good. Question and answer process continues
until the last
soldered joint and last screw is tightened.

So in a similar thinking man's attitude, I consider what might lay ahead
for our species.

It'd be a dull world without some OT amoung us regulars here, no?

Patrick Turner.
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Dersu Uzala wrote:

It is obvious to many that the world's population has overshot the world's
carrying capacity. As the industrial countries demand for resources expands
beyond the ability to increase the extraction rate of resources, there will be
an economic collaspe that will make the great depression look like a church
picnic. The economy depends upon continued growth, and when the inputs can not
increase, the stock market will crash. Many companies that depend upon growth
will suddenly become hugely over-valued when no further growth is possible.

http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/
http://www.kunstler.com/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...kstorenow57-20
http://www.theoildrum.com/
http://www.oilempire.us/
http://dieoff.org/


Without going into all the above details you have referred us to,
allow me to say I ain't a catastrophist, ie, a believer we are heading
for
a sudden horrible stop real soon.

I see that rather than any sudden stop, our progress of moving toward
everyone having a 20dB better life materially will simply be slowed down
and down gradually
as we have to spend more time and resources to dig deeper for oil and
minerals, and wait longer for
dams to fill with water, and spend more time to build nuclear power
stations,
and then re-build the whole infrastructure every 50 years while the
climate
heats us up, and the environment slowly degrades, and crops become more
difficult to grow,
and zero population growth has been achieved.
Luck will bring breakthoughs here and there and allow
super fixes to some problems, but then only to speed progress, and
create more problems,
needing more super fixes.
Someone born in 20 years time won't probably ever be able to see wild
elephants and won't miss them.
After another 100 years, more than 3/4 of Earth's species will have
vanished,
and anyone born then could only read about the ancient times.
It won't mean much to them. Ancient Greece or Rome means little now; but
hey, those ancients made all our mistakes...
There surely will be a lot for the people of the future to occupy
themselves with
as we do now compared to ppl living in 1007.

Let's hope we make contact with other intelligent life forms in the
Universe, and
let's hope we can compare notes about technology and survival.
Wouldn't it be nice to find a guy with green ears and purple nose at
planet X who'd worked out how to make solar energy
90% efficient instead of 10%, and how to do 1,001 things we cannot do
now.
Trouble is if energy became so cheap it was almost free then people
would simply rape the environment
even faster and harder than they are doing now, and all want 100 room
houses and 16
cars instead of the lousy 6 room houses and 2 cars they demand now. So
environmental collapse
instead of greenhouse would be a real worry; out of the frypan, and into
the fire!

We will need all the help we can get to continue for say another 100,000
years.
Let us hope that when we do make contact with aliens, they don't
immediately send a space warship
to zap Earth with a little 10 terratonne nuclear bomb so we don't become
a threat to
their space supremacy. Who said other forms of intelligent life are
going to be nice to know?
Might be a bunch of arsoles out there.

Perhaps we will gracefully evolve backwards to a bow and arrow
existance.
Who knows what will happen during the next 100,000 years?

Patrick Turner.
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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB

On Nov 19, 8:31 am, Patrick Turner wrote:

So in a similar thinking man's attitude, I consider what might lay ahead
for our species.

It'd be a dull world without some OT amoung us regulars here, no?


Patrick:

Cyril Kornbluth did it in the 50s and well in terms of the
implications of then-and-now trends. Yes, it is just a little
simplistic as a work of its brevity must be, but it is also dead on
point. When I see pretentious hacks such as Andre attempt to put a
veneer of special knowledge on the otherwise obvious, it does leave me
cold. And as a separate topic that is also off-topic, not a bad thing,
'cept for Andre's previous protestations of being "on topic" even most
of the time.

Andre Jute
Demographer


Yeah, right.

But:

http://www.bonitanews.com/news/2007/...nce_f/?print=1

Gives Ben Bova's review and precis of Cyril Kornbluth's work. The
original story is very much worth reading, it is apocryphal without
being either pretentious or cute - even if written with early 50s
sensitivities. However for that quite optimistic time it was VERY
controversial.

So, yes, I judge the pulings of Andre against those who know what they
are doing. Much as I respect your tube lore more-so than his as you do
demonstrate that you know what you are doing. On those lines, your
politics and preferences make no never-mind to me other than as a
potential for discussion over a pint-or-three (virtual or otherwise)
where a full-and-frank-exchange-of-views might be shared - and without
scaring the horses elsewhere.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB

On Nov 19, 6:30 am, "West" wrote to Worthless Wiecky:
you always accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. The Boss has
posted more technical articles in a month than you posted in a your pathetic
lifetime. Check the archives gents in case anyone doubts. Weiked, as usual
displays a classic case of Projection.

west


Poor Worthless seems to think that every post is "About Andre". He
doesn't have the faintest idea of what on-topic means. For four years
he's spent all his spare time hounding my posts -- and so far he
hasn't even risen out of my killfile, and to the rest of RAT he is a
laughingstock. Worthless Peter Wieck fits the definition of an
internet stalker to a T. He's just not very good at it.

Andre Jute
The art of charisma is by merely existing to induce apoplexy in losers

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

...

Hacked tripe Snipped


And


The only point(s) you have are on the top of your head - and either a
good wig or a proper haircut will manage that. But, as to your written
tripe - you as is typical have stated the obvious and cribbed work
done by others. Accordingly there are no original, creative or
contributory points to discuss.


None to do with tubes for a start, and this despite your many
protestations as to your vast and multiple contributions to the lore.


And those as to population & demographics - well - so what? Not a
thing you wrote is in any way interpretive, different, creative,
contributory or even more clearly stated than what has been done by
(many) others and better.


So, there is absolutely no reason to dignify your writings with a
considered reply.


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA




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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of genetic NFB

On Nov 18, 7:37 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

Patrick Turner wrote:
"What the world needs is one child per couple absolute maximum until
we get the problems fixed first to permit more than 1, but I doubt
that will ever happen because youthful love propels pregnancy rates
and is all about irrationality, and doing things without thinking of
the real issues and consequences while having an extended wish list
for affluent living."


Actually, Patrick, the economic mechanism of affluence reduces birth
rates at a rate of knots. When I came to live in Ireland, the average
Irish family had nearly four children. Now it has under two. That's
not even a replacement rate.


SNIP A bunch of well thought through comments. I agree.

Trevor Wilson


When I wrote the headline I was just waving my "on topic" figleaf. But
on second thoughts, that's a serious connection. The more gain in
affluence, the more the NFB of the easy life results lower population
growth, to the point where there is zero population growth and
political instability results.

That's a pretty complete analogy, the full circle.

Andre Jute
Perception is a skill that requires study and careful development over
along period of time. Few have it as a natural gift. -- Iain Churches
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John Byrns John Byrns is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB

In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:

On Nov 19, 6:30 am, "West" wrote to Worthless Wiecky:
you always accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. The Boss has
posted more technical articles in a month than you posted in a your pathetic
lifetime. Check the archives gents in case anyone doubts. Weiked, as usual
displays a classic case of Projection.

west


Poor Worthless seems to think that every post is "About Andre". He
doesn't have the faintest idea of what on-topic means. For four years
he's spent all his spare time hounding my posts -- and so far he
hasn't even risen out of my killfile, and to the rest of RAT he is a
laughingstock. Worthless Peter Wieck fits the definition of an
internet stalker to a T. He's just not very good at it.

Andre Jute
The art of charisma is by merely existing to induce apoplexy in losers


Peter is laboring under the delusion that he can drive you away if he
simply persists in harassing you long enough.


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB

On Nov 20, 4:20 pm, John Byrns wrote:
In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:





On Nov 19, 6:30 am, "West" wrote to Worthless Wiecky:
you always accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. The Boss has
posted more technical articles in a month than you posted in a your pathetic
lifetime. Check the archives gents in case anyone doubts. Weiked, as usual
displays a classic case of Projection.


west


Poor Worthless seems to think that every post is "About Andre". He
doesn't have the faintest idea of what on-topic means. For four years
he's spent all his spare time hounding my posts -- and so far he
hasn't even risen out of my killfile, and to the rest of RAT he is a
laughingstock. Worthless Peter Wieck fits the definition of an
internet stalker to a T. He's just not very good at it.


Andre Jute
The art of charisma is by merely existing to induce apoplexy in losers


Peter is laboring under the delusion that he can drive you away if he
simply persists in harassing you long enough.

Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


John:

Far be it from me to drive Andre away. I find him and his collection
of one (1) sycophant, one (1) sockpuppet and one (1) keeper endlessly
amusing, if utterly predictable. All and at the same time, a post from
him that has to do with tubes - especially one without both pretense
*and* bad information would be most welcome.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB

On Nov 20, 9:20 pm, John Byrns wrote:
In article
,
Andre Jute wrote:



On Nov 19, 6:30 am, "West" wrote to Worthless Wiecky:
you always accuse someone of doing the very thing you do. The Boss has
posted more technical articles in a month than you posted in a your pathetic
lifetime. Check the archives gents in case anyone doubts. Weiked, as usual
displays a classic case of Projection.


west


Poor Worthless seems to think that every post is "About Andre". He
doesn't have the faintest idea of what on-topic means. For four years
he's spent all his spare time hounding my posts -- and so far he
hasn't even risen out of my killfile, and to the rest of RAT he is a
laughingstock. Worthless Peter Wieck fits the definition of an
internet stalker to a T. He's just not very good at it.


Andre Jute
The art of charisma is by merely existing to induce apoplexy in losers


Peter is laboring under the delusion that he can drive you away if he
simply persists in harassing you long enough.


Gee, even Worthless Peter Wieck's copycat obsession is dull -- and
doomed to failure. History repeats itself; Worthless Wiecky will
eventually drown in his own futility. Meanwhile I see Wieck's
witterings only when someone worthwhile and therefore read replies to
Worthless.

Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/


Andre Jute
That fookin Jute is Teflon -- Ron Bales
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West West is offline
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Default ZPG, a form of economic NFB was ZPG, a form of genetic NFB


"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 2:10 pm, John Byrns wrote:
In article
,
Peter Wieck wrote:

Fits right into the idiocy posted by MI5... and nearly but not quite
as relevant to tubes and tube lore.


I have not clicked on any of these "MI5" posts that are going around,
can you provide a quick synopsis of what they say?

Regards,
John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/


Sorry, don't read the crap after the first one months ago. Paranoic to
say the least - just like your charge, but no pretenses - unlike your
charge.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


I think I have the gist of this game. I've been following it for quite some
time now, er...let's see... TAG! ... you're it!. Is that how it goes Petra?

west


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