Hi,

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

THANKS

In article ,
(Joker) writes:

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

If I understand your question then my answer would be this: Dont worry about
getting absolute seperation between tracks. Its not necessary in order to have
a good drum sound. Its also impossible AFAIK. Many will say its also not
necessary to individually mic every drum and cymbal.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

"Garthrr" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Joker) writes:

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

If I understand your question then my answer would be this: Dont worry
about
getting absolute seperation between tracks. Its not necessary in order to
have
a good drum sound. Its also impossible AFAIK. Many will say its also not
necessary to individually mic every drum and cymbal.


That's true. Also, if you have sonar, don't worry about gating _anything_,
it's no use, and you can always manually mute the parts in your sequencer
if you want to silence some bits.

"Joker" wrote in message
om

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

Seems like the wrong question. IME, it's extremely difficult to separate
sounds that were acoustically mixed before they were recorded. I've done
some experiments with this, and it can work if the sounds naturally fall in
different frequency ranges, but you can't leverage that very far in a drum
kit.

If you really want the purest possible sound of each drum or cymbal on its
track, you're going to have to separate them in the acoustical domain.

If someone sent me on a mission to produce tracks from the instruments in a
drum kit that were as acoustically separate as possible, I'd put as many
mics as possible inside instruments that have insides, and use absorptive
baffles to reduce acoustical bleed among the rest. This may turn out to be
so unnatural-sounding that using a MIDI drum set would be a more
natural-sounding alternative.

Joker wrote:
Hi,

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

THANKS

I've been a drummer for the last 18 years, and I've never found it
necessary to have *total* channel isolation between the different drum
mics. Basically, you end up with a rather unnatural sound.

You need to ensure that the drummer has tuned and damped his kit
correctly. (This is where the argumemnts can start - especially if the
sound guy is being pushy, and the drummer is inexperienced with
recording). Anyway, correct damping will reduce (but not totally
eliminate) sympathetic resonance between drums. This is an annoying
property of an undamped drum kit as a whole, and creates an indistinct
blurr of sound.

Drummers can get very touchy when the sound guy marches in and announces
that he is going to dampen the drums, and then proceeds to plaster
toilet paper and gaffer tape all over the skins! :-) I know, I used to
get like that, but then I started listening to the undamped sound in the
control room and it sounded horrible...

Anyway, you'll get a reasonably good sound from the toms using SM58's
(really, these are vocal mics), but for the snare use an SM57 or a Beta 56.

My setup is Beta56 on the snare (I have not found it necessary to use an
mic under the snare), a Beta 91 placed inside the kick drum, Beta
98D/S's on the toms and Sennheiser 414's as overheads.

As far as gating goes, I have never had found that it improves the sound
for recording. If your mixing a live gig, then gate the drums for the
FOH mix, but record the drum channels ungated.

HTH

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Chris Whealy wrote in
:

snip

You need to ensure that the drummer has tuned and damped his kit
correctly. (This is where the argumemnts can start - especially if
the sound guy is being pushy, and the drummer is inexperienced with
recording). Anyway, correct damping will reduce (but not totally
eliminate) sympathetic resonance between drums. This is an annoying
property of an undamped drum kit as a whole, and creates an indistinct
blurr of sound.


Unless, of course, you want that sound. Many Jazz drummers tune their
Kits for sympathetic resonances, even pleasingly musical intervals --
which is a good thing for their sound. They can hit one drum and the
whole kit talks. Of course, spot miking not so essential, if at all,
here.

Best,

Mack

David Mack Blauvelt

Unless, of course, you want that sound. Many Jazz drummers tune their
Kits for sympathetic resonances, even pleasingly musical intervals --
which is a good thing for their sound. They can hit one drum and the
whole kit talks. Of course, spot miking not so essential, if at all,
here.

Fair enough. But then I don't play Jazz, or tune my kit to sound like
that. :-)

For mic'ing drummers who specifically want that type of sound, then just
mic the snare and kick, and use a pair of condensers as overheads for
everything else.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Joker wrote:

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

There ain't no such thing. Sorry.

You'll need tighter mikes and probably a deader room to get that degree
of isolation.

Although, you might find that doing all the drums on one or two tracks
with area mikes might sound better.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"David Mack Blauvelt" wrote in
message news:voHzb.3520

Unless, of course, you want that sound. Many Jazz drummers tune their
Kits for sympathetic resonances, even pleasingly musical intervals --
which is a good thing for their sound. They can hit one drum and the
whole kit talks. Of course, spot miking not so essential, if at all,
here.

I spot mic (usually 8 tracks, sometimes as many as 15), and I want some
resonance from the toms even when they're not being hit. It's like glue that
holds the drum sound together. And that's with rock, R&B and country tracks,
not jazz.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

In article writes:

I've been a drummer for the last 18 years, and I've never found it
necessary to have *total* channel isolation between the different drum
mics. Basically, you end up with a rather unnatural sound.

As a drummer, you probably think of it as a single instrument, which
it is. Two or three mics should be enough, unless there's some reason
to use an effect on one component of the kit and not the others - sort
of the equivalent of putting the A string of a guitar through a
chorus, compress the B string, and using some radical EQ on the low E
string.

I think the question is valid, the answer is "you can't do that," and
the reason for isolating the individual drums in the kit should be
examined.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Joker wrote:

I use Sonar 2.0 to record my band. We have Terratec EMS 88 MT sound
card wich can record 8 mono tracks at time. It looks great for record
drums ( each drum or cymbal with it`s own mike ). We have shure SM 58
mices. WHAR KIND OF GATE OR SOME SIMILAR EQIUPMENT WE HAVE TO USE TO
GET ONE DRUM IN ONE TRACK ?

Unfortunately, gates don't do that. The only way to achieve what
you're describing is to only hit one drum at a time. Every time you
hit a drum (or cymbal), you'll have to wait until it decayse to hit
another one.

Tell us again why you only want one drum on each track?

ulysses

"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...
"David Mack Blauvelt" wrote in
message news:voHzb.3520

Unless, of course, you want that sound. Many Jazz drummers tune their
Kits for sympathetic resonances, even pleasingly musical intervals --
which is a good thing for their sound. They can hit one drum and the
whole kit talks. Of course, spot miking not so essential, if at all,
here.

I spot mic (usually 8 tracks, sometimes as many as 15), and I want some
resonance from the toms even when they're not being hit. It's like glue
that
holds the drum sound together. And that's with rock, R&B and country
tracks,
not jazz.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com



Agreed.

John L Rice

I like to put a bunch of mics on my kit also. But I don't try and
isolate anything while tracking.

I get my drum sound from the overhead mics. Then I use a combination
of gating & EQ on the "spot" mics to somewhat isolate the individual
drums. I barely use the spot mic'd tracks at all. They're mainly for
enhancing the sound of the overhead mics, and along with some
judicious panning to give better stereo effects to some rolls.

The more mics you put on the drums, the more headache you're going to
have with phase cancellations and such.

hth, TJ

I think the question is valid, the answer is "you can't do that," and
the reason for isolating the individual drums in the kit should be
examined.

In my experience, the people who feel that individual drum channels need
to be "clean" (I.E. isolated), are people who do not regard the drum kit
as an integral unit, but rather a collection of indiviual drums.

Consequently, they pay minute attention to the sound of an individual
drum, and think that if the individual parts sound good, ergo, the kit
as a whole will sound good. I personally believe that this line of
reasoning is flawed; and I find that those who adhere to it also tend
not to have much in the way of a musical background.

The sound of a drum kit is the sound produced by *all* the drums -
whether they're being hit or not does not matter. It is a single
instrument whose overall sound is greater than the sum of its parts.
This reasoning is also true for any stringed instrument - particularly a
grand piano.

So getting back to the original question, I believe it is a flawed
concept to think that you can reconstruct the true acoustic sound of a
drum kit simply from isolated channels that supply kick, snare and
several toms.

I have a pair of 414's as overheads, and I get the bulk of the kit sound
from these. The individual mics are then used to add a little more of
the direct sound, mainly from the kick and snare. This results in you
hearing more of the stick/beater impact which gives the sound a more
defined front edge.

I only use an effect on the snare, and then, only when called for by the
style of song. E.G. A slow ballad with cross stick on the snare would
have some reverb on it.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--