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sennheiser way to go with nature recordings: Sennheiser MKH-40 pair or Sennheiser MKH-30 + MKH-40 combo?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 7th 07, 07:47 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
andrejs eigus
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Posts: 144
Default sennheiser way to go with nature recordings: Sennheiser MKH-40 pair or Sennheiser MKH-30 + MKH-40 combo?

dear all,

i am thinking about investing into a descent stereo condenser microphone or
a pair of condenser microphones for field/nature recording work in quiet
areas. i presently have tascam hdp2 compact flash recorder and gracedesign
lunatec v3 mic pre, connected digitally to hdp2 via SP/DIF. in my search
for most convenient option for microphones to choose for HIGH QUALITY nature
recordings, i came across several options:

(1) sennheiser mkh-40 matched pair of cardioids + pair of rycote windshield
kit 2 + pair of manfrotto 190b stands.

(2) sennheiser mkh-40 + sennheiser mkh-30 figure-8 cardioid M/S setup +
sennheiser mzs 20-1 suspension + sennheiser mzw 20-1 windshield + MZH 70-1
hairy cover

(3) sennheiser mkh-40 or mkh-800 + sennheiser mkh-800 variable pattern mic
M/S setup

now please correct me if i am wrong, but:

although option 1 gives me flexibility in terms of mic placement, it does
not seem too convenient because i need two microphone stands and it will
most probably be a great pain to drag this all along.

option 2 gives me more flexibility, because i can mount mkh-30 and mkh-40
piggyback on top of one another and it results in that i only need a single
boom, which is much easier to carry along and operate with. i also get M/S
output which is automatically decoded into conventional stereo by my lunatec
v3 preamp. i also get better focus and isolation to the sounds directly in
front of me. in addition, i can possibly get additional jobs with field
recording for film, since this setup seems more directional.

option 3 seems to give me a lot of flexibility (variable polar pattern on
mkh-800) and a better quality/dynamic range (mkh-800 - opinions?) at a
seriously higher price. anyone has ever tried mkh 800? is it possible to
record sounds above 20,000 hz with mkh-800 + v3 setup? will mkh-800 pair be
significantly better than mkh-800 + mkh-40?

your professional feedback will be greatly appreciated!

best wishes,

andrejs


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  #2  
Old February 7th 07, 11:43 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Fraser
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Posts: 526
Default sennheiser way to go with nature recordings: Sennheiser MKH-40 pair or Sennheiser MKH-30 + MKH-40 combo?

> now please correct me if i am wrong, but:
> although option 1 gives me flexibility in terms of mic placement, it does
> not seem too convenient because i need two microphone stands and it will
> most probably be a great pain to drag this all along.>>


Yup, it's a big array & hugely inconvenient in field use. You want
portability.

> option 2 gives me more flexibility, because i can mount mkh-30 and mkh-40
> piggyback on top of one another and it results in that i only need a single
> boom, which is much easier to carry along and operate with. i also get M/S
> output which is automatically decoded into conventional stereo by my lunatec
> v3 preamp. i also get better focus and isolation to the sounds directly in
> front of me. in addition, i can possibly get additional jobs with field
> recording for film, since this setup seems more directional.>>


All this is correct. For field use you really want convenience, &
having both mics in the same zeppelin is the way to get convenience.
Another possible approach, not available with any Sennheiser mics, is
to mount two Schoeps CMC, Neumann KM100, or AKG 451/460 bodies
parallel to each other in the Rycote & use the available swivel joints
to aim cardioid capsules off in an XY configuration. Or use active
cables to remote the capsules in a Schoeps or Rycote ball gag. Of
course the more accessories you add, the more expensive the whole rig
becomes.

> option 3 seems to give me a lot of flexibility (variable polar pattern on
> mkh-800) and a better quality/dynamic range (mkh-800 - opinions?) >>


My opinion is the MKH800 is a great mic at a price nobody can
realistically afford.

> at a seriously higher price. anyone has ever tried mkh 800?>>


Yes, it's wonderful. I would never consider purchasing one.

> is it possible to record sounds above 20,000 hz with mkh-800 + v3 setup? will mkh-800 pair be significantly better than mkh-800 + mkh-40?>>


I think, given your desire to use this equipment for field recording,
that any improvement in quality deriving from using an MKH800 will be
entirely academic. Outdoors is amazingly noisy. I've had many, many
field recordings in wilderness areas compromised by distant aircraft,
vehicular & nautical engine noise. I wouldn't sweat the minute quality
bump possible by going from an MKH40 to an MKH800.

Scott Fraser

  #3  
Old February 8th 07, 03:30 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
andrejs eigus
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Posts: 144
Default sennheiser way to go with nature recordings: Sennheiser MKH-40 pair or Sennheiser MKH-30 + MKH-40 combo?

dear Scott,

thank you so much for your feedback!

> Another possible approach, not available with any Sennheiser mics, is
> to mount two Schoeps CMC, Neumann KM100, or AKG 451/460 bodies
> parallel to each other in the Rycote & use the available swivel joints
> to aim cardioid capsules off in an XY configuration. Or use active
> cables to remote the capsules in a Schoeps or Rycote ball gag. Of
> course the more accessories you add, the more expensive the whole rig
> becomes.


i would like to learn more about possible configuration that you are
suggesting. may i ask you if you have any links, preferably with pictures
where i can learn more information how to assemble this kit with mounting
two schoeps CMC-5 bodies parallel to each other in the rycote windshield?
btw, i already own rycote windshield kit 4, will it be suitable for schoeps
mics? what kind of schoeps capsules would you recommend for my application?
MK 5?

thank you very very much! the problem with me here is also that i cannot
test anything because nothing is available for rent or test here in latvia.
these mikes are also not available for sale directly in any of the audio
shops that i know of. so for me it's all theory for now, and thus i ask
people for advice. last summer i have been using rode nt4 stereo condenser
in a rycote wind kit 4 and i decided to move step ahead in terms of quality.

>> at a seriously higher price. anyone has ever tried mkh 800?>>

>
> Yes, it's wonderful. I would never consider purchasing one.


i understand. mkh 800 is awfully expensive!

> vehicular & nautical engine noise. I wouldn't sweat the minute quality
> bump possible by going from an MKH40 to an MKH800.


i understand. i think i am on the same side of the table with you.

-andrejs


  #4  
Old February 9th 07, 04:21 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Fraser
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Posts: 526
Default sennheiser way to go with nature recordings: Sennheiser MKH-40 pair or Sennheiser MKH-30 + MKH-40 combo?

> i would like to learn more about possible configuration that you are
> suggesting. may i ask you if you have any links, preferably with pictures
> where i can learn more information how to assemble this kit with mounting
> two schoeps CMC-5 bodies parallel to each other in the rycote windshield?>>


The bottom half of this page:

www.schoeps.de/E-2004/windscreens-baskets.html

shows how the Schoeps Collette series capsules or miniature series
mics fit in a comparatively small windscreen. This shows am MS
configuration, but I have also seen XY mounts for this sort of screen,
using active capsules.
In the scenario I mentioned with the bodies parallel in the zeppelin,
I did this with a rental Rycote, using a pair of AKG 451's with A51
swivel joints. The clips to hold the 2 mics next to each other were
available from the rental company, so it was a standard part, although
this was some 10 years ago. The result was "near coincident", since
the capsules swiveled away from one another. Unfortunately, the 451's
quickly packed it in on location in a Costa Rican jungle, so I can't
comment on the efficacy of the overall package. A spare AT825 electret
mic held up in the high humidity & saved the day, providing
acceptable, though not spectacular results.

> btw, i already own rycote windshield kit 4, will it be suitable for schoeps
> mics?>>


If pursuing an XY pattern, the main concern is how far the capsules
swing away from the body with the swivel attachment. There is
obviously very limited space inside the Rycote. If you're doing MS
space isn't such a problem, since the bodies will be one atop the
other.

<< what kind of schoeps capsules would you recommend for my
application?
> MK 5?>>


I'm most familiar with the MK4 cardioid, but I would want to try an MS
application, so a figure8 & a cardioid or hypercardioid would be my
first choice.

> thank you very very much! the problem with me here is also that i cannot
> test anything because nothing is available for rent or test here in latvia.
> these mikes are also not available for sale directly in any of the audio
> shops that i know of. so for me it's all theory for now, and thus i ask
> people for advice. last summer i have been using rode nt4 stereo condenser
> in a rycote wind kit 4 and i decided to move step ahead in terms of quality.>>


Since all of this is rather expensive gear, it might be worthwhile to
take a lovely vacation by train to Germany & hang out in one of the
major audio dealers to get some hands on with the equipment before
committing to a big purchase.

Scott Fraser


  #5  
Old February 25th 07, 09:17 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen
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Posts: 498
Default sennheiser way to go with nature recordings: Sennheiser MKH-40 pairor Sennheiser MKH-30 + MKH-40 combo?

andrejs eigus wrote:

> (1) sennheiser mkh-40 matched pair of cardioids


> (2) sennheiser mkh-40 + sennheiser mkh-30 figure-8 cardioid
> M/S setup


Both are good, I have tried recording classical music with them. The MS
setup is convenient because of its partial zoom properties. Both can do
violin. The MKH series seem to benefit from being powered up for some
time, their sound is a bit boring initially but opens up after some
recordings. Practical considerations suggest the MS setup, your own as
well as those mentioned by Scott.

> your professional feedback will be greatly appreciated!


Omnis are less sensitive to wind noise, but also less capable of
disregarding unwanted sources by some 6 to 10 dB. You can however
combine with a parabolic reflector ... at the cost of unlinear frequency
response.

> andrejs


Regards

Peter Larsen
 




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