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#1
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Turntable Volume?
I'm a newbie to the group, so I might have missed this if it was
addressed before... I have a Technics 1200 turntable that does not have a pre-amp. It is connected to a phono jack on a JVC amplifier. When recording to either the tape deck or the CD recorder, the music recorded from the turntable is much lower in volume than a CD. I've heard (don't know if it's true or not) that getting a pre-amp would solve the problem. Can a pre-amp be purchased and connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier? The turntable wasn't cheap and I'm not in the market to upgrade it. Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you. JoAnn :-) |
#2
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Turntable Volume?
On 19 Oct 2005 15:48:01 -0700, "
wrote: I'm a newbie to the group, so I might have missed this if it was addressed before... I have a Technics 1200 turntable that does not have a pre-amp. It is connected to a phono jack on a JVC amplifier. When recording to either the tape deck or the CD recorder, the music recorded from the turntable is much lower in volume than a CD. I've heard (don't know if it's true or not) that getting a pre-amp would solve the problem. Can a pre-amp be purchased and connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier? The turntable wasn't cheap and I'm not in the market to upgrade it. Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you. Unless the JVC has a jack specifically labelled "phono," you must add an external phono preamp between turntable and amp. These can be bought at prices from about $20 (RadioShack, MCM, etc) up to many thou$and$. Google "phono preamp" and see what's out there. Kal |
#3
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Turntable Volume?
The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the
turntable as well. I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. I did that and the results were clearly wrong. Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? |
#4
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Turntable Volume?
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#5
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Turntable Volume?
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On 19 Oct 2005 15:48:01 -0700, " wrote: Unless the JVC has a jack specifically labelled "phono," you must add an external phono preamp between turntable and amp. These can be bought at prices from about $20 (RadioShack, MCM, etc) up to many thou$and$. Google "phono preamp" and see what's out there. If the sound is very quiet and has very strong high frequencies and no low frequencies, then you need an outboard phono pre-amp. If the sound is normal, but a little quiet, then you don't have a problem. Blame the people who use lots of compression on CDs and radio for how loud they sound compared to your turntable. Hope this helps, Peter. -- |
#6
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Turntable Volume?
jbicking wrote ...
I'm a newbie to the group, so I might have missed this if it was addressed before... I have a Technics 1200 turntable that does not have a pre-amp. It is connected to a phono jack on a JVC amplifier. What was the name of this input? If it was not "Phono" then it was likely a line-level input and I'm surprised you were able to hear *anything* out of it. When recording to either the tape deck or the CD recorder, the music recorded from the turntable is much lower in volume than a CD. I've heard (don't know if it's true or not) that getting a pre-amp would solve the problem. If you don't have an input specifically designed for "Phono" then, indeed, an RIAA phono preamp is required. Can a pre-amp be purchased and connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier? The turntable wasn't cheap and I'm not in the market to upgrade it. Yes. There are several sources of standalone phono preamps. You can buy one at Radio Shack (# 42-2825) |
#7
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Turntable Volume?
The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the
turntable as well. *I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. *I did that and the results were clearly wrong. *Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? |
#8
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Turntable Volume?
On 19 Oct 2005 16:27:45 -0700, "
wrote: The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the turntable as well. I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. I did that and the results were clearly wrong. Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? In that case, the output of the phono cartridge you have (what model is it?) is too low for the gain/amplification of the phono stage. This is hard to correct without changing the cartridge or the amp. Or you can simply live with the discrepancy and just turn up the phono when you need to. Kal |
#9
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Turntable Volume?
When recording to either the tape deck or the CD recorder, the music
recorded from the turntable is much lower in volume than a CD. Not uncommon; the output levels from consumer equipment are not very well standardized. I'm told that some amps/recievers with digital controls will let you program a volume offset depending on which input you've selected, to compensate for this... but since volume also varies from record to record and CD to CD, there are obvious limits to how far this will get you. |
#10
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Turntable Volume?
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
On 19 Oct 2005 16:27:45 -0700, " wrote: The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the turntable as well. I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. I did that and the results were clearly wrong. Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? In that case, the output of the phono cartridge you have (what model is it?) is too low for the gain/amplification of the phono stage. I wouldn't be so sure of this. All she's said is that the output of the turntable is lower than the output of her CD player when she records to tape. That's fairly common. If she had to crank the volume *way* up even to listen to the turntable, then I'd agree that there's a problem. This is hard to correct without changing the cartridge or the amp. Or you can simply live with the discrepancy and just turn up the phono when you need to. That's how I deal with it. bob |
#11
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Turntable Volume?
"Peter Irwin" wrote in message ... Kalman Rubinson wrote: On 19 Oct 2005 15:48:01 -0700, " wrote: Unless the JVC has a jack specifically labelled "phono," you must add an external phono preamp between turntable and amp. These can be bought at prices from about $20 (RadioShack, MCM, etc) up to many thou$and$. Google "phono preamp" and see what's out there. If the sound is very quiet and has very strong high frequencies and no low frequencies, then you need an outboard phono pre-amp. If the sound is normal, but a little quiet, then you don't have a problem. Blame the people who use lots of compression on CDs and radio for how loud they sound compared to your turntable. Hope this helps, Let me add to Peter's thoughts on this. If the sound seems normal, but is quite low both when listening and when taping, then you probably have what is called a "low-output moving coil cartridge" in the Technics. In that case you need what used to be called a "headamp" or a "pre-preamp". This is essentially a low-powered amp that boosts the signal to sufficient volume for the preamp that is built into the "phono" input of your JVC to handle. Probably today the best place to look would be on eBay. Look under the headings "step-up transformer (a variation)", "pre-preamp", "headamp", "moving-coil step up". Good luck. Harry |
#12
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Turntable Volume?
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:22:18 -0400, "Harry Lavo"
wrote: "Peter Irwin" wrote in message ... Kalman Rubinson wrote: On 19 Oct 2005 15:48:01 -0700, " wrote: Unless the JVC has a jack specifically labelled "phono," you must add an external phono preamp between turntable and amp. These can be bought at prices from about $20 (RadioShack, MCM, etc) up to many thou$and$. Google "phono preamp" and see what's out there. If the sound is very quiet and has very strong high frequencies and no low frequencies, then you need an outboard phono pre-amp. If the sound is normal, but a little quiet, then you don't have a problem. Blame the people who use lots of compression on CDs and radio for how loud they sound compared to your turntable. Hope this helps, Let me add to Peter's thoughts on this. If the sound seems normal, but is quite low both when listening and when taping, then you probably have what is called a "low-output moving coil cartridge" in the Technics. In that case you need what used to be called a "headamp" or a "pre-preamp". This is essentially a low-powered amp that boosts the signal to sufficient volume for the preamp that is built into the "phono" input of your JVC to handle. Probably today the best place to look would be on eBay. Look under the headings "step-up transformer (a variation)", "pre-preamp", "headamp", "moving-coil step up". Mebbe but unlikely. That's why I asked him in my original reply what cartridge was in the TT. Kal |
#13
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Turntable Volume?
wrote in message ups.com... The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the turntable as well. I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. I did that and the results were clearly wrong. Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? Maybe you have a MC (Movoing Coil) phono cartridge than requires a transformer or additional low noise linear preamp before the phono preamp ? As opposed to a MM (Moving Magnet) cartridge that goes straight to 'Phono'. Or maybe you are comparing perceived audio levels on highly-compressed music as on many recent CD releases. geoff |
#14
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Turntable Volume?
wrote in message oups.com... The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the turntable as well. I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. I did that and the results were clearly wrong. Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? Maybe you tried an additional phono preamp (would make music VERY bassy and dull), instead of a 'MC preamp' , if your cartridge is indeed MC. geoff |
#15
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Turntable Volume?
I don't have model number information about it, but it is an
Audio-Technica cartridge. The sound is normal, just a bit lower volume than the CD. |
#16
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Turntable Volume?
I do have to turn the amplifier up to better hear the turntable, but
not "way up". The turntable has normal sound, meaning that it sounds fine, just a little lower in volume level than the CD player. What I might try is to record to a tape with the record volume way up, then record to CD from the tape instead of the LP. With the higher volume generated from the tape deck (merely because I jacked up the record volume), that might give me enough "room" to turn the CD record volume up to get good levels. |
#17
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Turntable Volume?
wrote in message
ups.com I do have to turn the amplifier up to better hear the turntable, but not "way up". The turntable has normal sound, meaning that it sounds fine, just a little lower in volume level than the CD player. What I might try is to record to a tape with the record volume way up, then record to CD from the tape instead of the LP. With the higher volume generated from the tape deck (merely because I jacked up the record volume), that might give me enough "room" to turn the CD record volume up to get good levels. It's probably easier to cut down the signal from the CD player with an attenuator. |
#18
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Turntable Volume?
In article .com, " wrote:
I'm a newbie to the group, so I might have missed this if it was addressed before... I have a Technics 1200 turntable that does not have a pre-amp. It is connected to a phono jack on a JVC amplifier. When recording to either the tape deck or the CD recorder, the music recorded from the turntable is much lower in volume than a CD. I've heard (don't know if it's true or not) that getting a pre-amp would solve the problem. Can a pre-amp be purchased and connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier? The turntable wasn't cheap and I'm not in the market to upgrade it. Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you. JoAnn :-) All my systems have reduced phono levels. You need a mixer to record properly. greg |
#19
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Turntable Volume?
On 20 Oct 2005 04:17:10 -0700, "
wrote: I do have to turn the amplifier up to better hear the turntable, but not "way up". The turntable has normal sound, meaning that it sounds fine, just a little lower in volume level than the CD player. Then everything's normal. Just continue to use the volume control. What I might try is to record to a tape with the record volume way up, then record to CD from the tape instead of the LP. With the higher volume generated from the tape deck (merely because I jacked up the record volume), that might give me enough "room" to turn the CD record volume up to get good levels. If you can stand the additional noise/distortion due to the dual transfers, that will get you there. Kal |
#20
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Turntable Volume?
On 19 Oct 2005 16:27:45 -0700, "
wrote: The jack is specifically labeled PHONO and there is a ground for the turntable as well. I talked to radio shack about it once and they told me that I had to buy this smaller amplifier (that they called a preamp) and connect it between the turntable and the JVC amplifier. I did that and the results were clearly wrong. Do you still have that preamp? You shouldn't connect the preamp's output to the PHONO input. Connect the preamp between the turntable and a LINE, VIDEO or AUX input of the JVC, and see if that's any better/different/worse than going from the turntable into the PHONO input. Can a preamp be connected inline between the turntable and the amplifier to boost the signal? |
#21
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Turntable Volume?
wrote in message oups.com... I don't have model number information about it, but it is an Audio-Technica cartridge. The sound is normal, just a bit lower volume than the CD. I have an AT phono cartridge which is MC, and has and inline transformmer in the phono lead. You may indeed have an MC cartridge, but AT do make both types... geoff |
#22
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Turntable Volume?
wrote in message ups.com... I do have to turn the amplifier up to better hear the turntable, but not "way up". The turntable has normal sound, meaning that it sounds fine, just a little lower in volume level than the CD player. What I might try is to record to a tape with the record volume way up, then record to CD from the tape instead of the LP. With the higher volume generated from the tape deck (merely because I jacked up the record volume), that might give me enough "room" to turn the CD record volume up to get good levels. Don't filter your music thru a cassette ! geoff |
#23
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Turntable Volume?
" wrote:
I'm a newbie to the group, so I might have missed this if it was addressed before... I have a Technics 1200 turntable that does not have a pre-amp. It is connected to a phono jack on a JVC amplifier. When recording to either the tape deck or the CD recorder, the music recorded from the turntable is much lower in volume than a CD. This is normal, and caused by CD players having a higher output level. Does anyone have any ideas? Put say an 8 dB attenuator in the wiring from CD-player to amp. That would be about the difference I reckon. Asumption: a proper phono input is present and used. If not the signal will be almost treble only and very very weak, not the complaint you seem to have. Thank you. JoAnn :-) You do not have a problem that really needs addressing, but the difference in sound volume when playing records and when playing CDs can be unpleasant. CD players had their output level increased compared to other home audio objects for two reasons: to actually fit the noise floor of digital to the noisefloor of electronically possible lineamps and to allow a better headroom for the occasional transient. The latter concept has been totally disregarded and CD's are generally made at least as loud as possible. Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#24
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Turntable Volume?
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
In that case, the output of the phono cartridge you have (what model is it?) is too low for the gain/amplification of the phono stage. No Kalman, all is as it is designed to be. But the riaa stage of that amp matches for a 500 to 1000 mV line level and the CD player has a 2 volt output capability that is fully used in spit of it actually being intended to match the same line level. Henche the probable 8 dB difference in loudness between the sources. This is hard to correct without changing the cartridge or the amp. This is easy to correct: attentuate the CD-player by 8 dB. Or you can simply live with the discrepancy and just turn up the phono when you need to. Simplest. Kal Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#25
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Turntable Volume?
GregS wrote:
All my systems have reduced phono levels. You need a mixer to record properly. I just use a 1010LT to have a matched record input and the option of concurrent recording for each source, but in the actual context it is easier and simpler to put a suitable attenuator in the CD players connection to the amp. greg Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#26
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Turntable Volume?
I agree.. At home when I'm listening, it's not an issue. Where it
becomes an issue is in my car when I'm listening to mix CD's that I've recorded on the CD recorder at home - especially when I record something from the turntable and then something from the CD player. I've got the volume in the car turned up to better hear the recording from the turntable, but then when the next song (recorded from the CD player) starts, I'm practically blown out of the car. Thought about doing whole CD's from the turntable and not mixing in any CD tracks; however.. that interferes with the logical flow that happens when making a mix cd - if that doesn't sound too flaky. |
#27
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Turntable Volume?
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:12:11 +0200, Peter Larsen
wrote: Kalman Rubinson wrote: In that case, the output of the phono cartridge you have (what model is it?) is too low for the gain/amplification of the phono stage. No Kalman, all is as it is designed to be. But the riaa stage of that amp matches for a 500 to 1000 mV line level and the CD player has a 2 volt output capability that is fully used in spit of it actually being intended to match the same line level. Henche the probable 8 dB difference in loudness between the sources. Actually, I was answering a different question which, apparently, was not even asked. I had assumed he found the listening level for phono too low unless he turned the VC all the way up. If so, that would mean he had inadequate gain in the system. It seems, however, he is more concerned about relative level differences and, specifically, how they record. Kal |
#28
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Turntable Volume?
In article .com, " wrote:
I agree.. At home when I'm listening, it's not an issue. Where it becomes an issue is in my car when I'm listening to mix CD's that I've recorded on the CD recorder at home - especially when I record something from the turntable and then something from the CD player. I've got the volume in the car turned up to better hear the recording from the turntable, but then when the next song (recorded from the CD player) starts, I'm practically blown out of the car. Thought about doing whole CD's from the turntable and not mixing in any CD tracks; however.. that interferes with the logical flow that happens when making a mix cd - if that doesn't sound too flaky. Its bad enough different records will have different levels, and different CD's will have different levels, and Tapes... Either a manual, and or an automatic volume control, and especially a mixer, will bring all into perspective. A regular mixer for DJ's has level matching except for MC cartridges. I once used HI FI VCRs, which have built in automatic volume control on record, into the chain to minimize level changing. They have 10 to 20 dB of action. greg |
#29
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Turntable Volume?
" wrote:
I agree.. At home when I'm listening, it's not an issue. Where it becomes an issue is in my car when I'm listening to mix CD's that I've recorded on the CD recorder at home - especially when I record something from the turntable and then something from the CD player. I've got the volume in the car turned up to better hear the recording from the turntable, but then when the next song (recorded from the CD player) starts, I'm practically blown out of the car. All you need is a small box with a 6, 8, 10, 12 dB attenuator between CD-player and amp, set the attenation that fits best and forget. Perhaps GregS has an idea for how you can aquire one. Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#30
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Turntable Volume?
GregS wrote:
Its bad enough different records will have different levels, and different CD's will have different levels, and Tapes... Either a manual, and or an automatic volume control, and especially a mixer, will bring all into perspective. Not for this questionee, a box with switchable 6, 8, 10, 12 dB attenuation and to set and forget will fit the questionees problem as suggested in follow up to questionee. It can be simple and it should be simple. It is also the cleanest sounding approach. greg Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#31
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Turntable Volume?
Is your CD recorder a computer? If so, you can adjust the level of all
your computer files to be roughly the same. For example, iTunes has a box to tick to achieve this and, I assume, Windows software will have something similar. |
#32
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Turntable Volume?
No.. It's a Philips CD Recorder attached to the stereo. I've tried
offsetting the issue by bumping up the record volume, but it doesn't work like you'd think it would. |
#33
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Turntable Volume?
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#34
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Turntable Volume?
The recorder does have a knob for adjusting the record level, but it
doesn't do much good when recording from the turntable. It's up almost all the way when recording from the turntable and yet I still see a large difference in the recorded music on the CD. If I adjust the record level on the CD recorder when recording from a CD, the level goes up, just like the turntable.. but since the turntable is so much lower to begin with, the recordings made from the turntable can never be as loud as the ones from the cd player. I have a computer - not sure if it has inputs or not (probably does, the PC is less than a year old). However... these pieces of equipment are not in the same room of the house and the purpose of buying the CD recorder was to record from vinyl. |
#35
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Turntable Volume?
wrote in message ups.com... The recorder does have a knob for adjusting the record level, but it doesn't do much good when recording from the turntable. It's up almost all the way when recording from the turntable and yet I still see a large difference in the recorded music on the CD. If I adjust the record level on the CD recorder when recording from a CD, the level goes up, just like the turntable.. but since the turntable is so much lower to begin with, the recordings made from the turntable can never be as loud as the ones from the cd player. I have a computer - not sure if it has inputs or not (probably does, the PC is less than a year old). However... these pieces of equipment are not in the same room of the house and the purpose of buying the CD recorder was to record from vinyl. I still think you may be using a low-output moving coil cartridge that requires a headamp to get anywhere near acceptable volume levels. |
#36
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Turntable Volume?
Harry Lavo wrote:
I still think you may be using a low-output moving coil cartridge that requires a headamp to get anywhere near acceptable volume levels. Not likely, the loudness difference between playing a record and the CD output appears to be in the order of magnitude caused by CD players having a 2 volts peak sound output. The questionee needs an inline attenuator in the cable from CD player to amp, it is the simplest, the best and the cheapest solution. Fixing what is too loud requires a sum total of 4 resistors. Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#37
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Turntable Volume?
It's up almost
all the way when recording from the turntable and yet I still see a large difference in the recorded music on the CD. It is not up all the way? So are you raising the level until a light comes on saying you have it at the correct volume? For the turntable the knob is set near the maximum and for the CD it is set near the minimum. If so, this would appear to be correct. Are your loud CDs recently recorded rock/pop music? |
#38
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Turntable Volume?
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Harry Lavo wrote: I still think you may be using a low-output moving coil cartridge that requires a headamp to get anywhere near acceptable volume levels. Not likely, the loudness difference between playing a record and the CD output appears to be in the order of magnitude caused by CD players having a 2 volts peak sound output. The questionee needs an inline attenuator in the cable from CD player to amp, it is the simplest, the best and the cheapest solution. He says that with the volume control all the way up on the recorder, he still has insufficient volume. Since a "tape out" output will normally require a recorder volume setting of around six or seven, something is seriously wrong. And it isn't a matter of just a few db's. |
#39
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Turntable Volume?
Harry Lavo wrote:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Harry Lavo wrote: I still think you may be using a low-output moving coil cartridge that requires a headamp to get anywhere near acceptable volume levels. Not likely, the loudness difference between playing a record and the CD output appears to be in the order of magnitude caused by CD players having a 2 volts peak sound output. The questionee needs an inline attenuator in the cable from CD player to amp, it is the simplest, the best and the cheapest solution. He says that with the volume control all the way up on the recorder, he still has insufficient volume. Since a "tape out" output will normally require a recorder volume setting of around six or seven, something is seriously wrong. And it isn't a matter of just a few db's. Oh oh, yes, well perhaps we could get the actual model of said CD recorder and check its input sensivity or a posting of its specs from the questionee? Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#40
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Turntable Volume?
Another thought: is there a switch on the front or, possibly, on the
back of the CD recorder for introducing a large change in the recording level. This might not be labelled something obvious. |
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