I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some model? I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen

If you record in stereo it will use more disc space. Here is a bit of info
for you
http://www.soundme.com/eng/ampli/setup10.htm
"Jari Jokinen" wrote in message
...
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances
to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo
mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some model?
I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen

If you record in stereo it will use more disc space. Here is a bit of info
for you
http://www.soundme.com/eng/ampli/setup10.htm
"Jari Jokinen" wrote in message
...
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances
to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo
mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some model?
I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen

In Article , "Jari Jokinen"
wrote:
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some model? I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen


Even most omnis are directional at high frequencies. If you can use
coincident omnis, with an angle between their exact fronts, you'll get stereo.

Try two EV 635 dyanmics. (What no Schoeps!?!?)

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In Article , "Jari Jokinen"
wrote:
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some model? I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen


Even most omnis are directional at high frequencies. If you can use
coincident omnis, with an angle between their exact fronts, you'll get stereo.

Try two EV 635 dyanmics. (What no Schoeps!?!?)

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

Jari Jokinen wrote:

I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose

A stereo mic with omni pattern does not exist. A pair of omni's are one
solution, but there are recordings that an omni pair can not - imo - do.
I have occasionally talked 4006 owners into using their old Sennheiser
406's for recording that require "reach" and they have thanked me
afterwards.

and can you recommend some model?

I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

At about 400 Rode NT4 Stereo Condenser Microphone becomes a possible
choice, just the top webshop search result from msn, local retail may
differ. It is imo too much money to spend in the context of the proposed
recording device.

ADK SC1 - at DKK 500 at http://www.aage.dk - looks like a dark hose that
may win the race in this context, this because you should be able to
afford a reasonable manfrotto stand and cabling within the same budget.

Don't rush it, perhaps other people out there have better suggestions. I
have no personal experience with the suggested microphones, there may be
better choices out there.

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Jari Jokinen wrote:

I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose

A stereo mic with omni pattern does not exist. A pair of omni's are one
solution, but there are recordings that an omni pair can not - imo - do.
I have occasionally talked 4006 owners into using their old Sennheiser
406's for recording that require "reach" and they have thanked me
afterwards.

and can you recommend some model?

I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

At about 400 Rode NT4 Stereo Condenser Microphone becomes a possible
choice, just the top webshop search result from msn, local retail may
differ. It is imo too much money to spend in the context of the proposed
recording device.

ADK SC1 - at DKK 500 at http://www.aage.dk - looks like a dark hose that
may win the race in this context, this because you should be able to
afford a reasonable manfrotto stand and cabling within the same budget.

Don't rush it, perhaps other people out there have better suggestions. I
have no personal experience with the suggested microphones, there may be
better choices out there.

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

"Ty Ford" wrote in message

In Article , "Jari
Jokinen" wrote:
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental
performances to minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close
miking. Is a stereo mic with omni pattern good for this purpose and
can you recommend some model? I am prepared to spend 200 euro or
maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen


Even most omnis are directional at high frequencies. If you can use
coincident omnis, with an angle between their exact fronts, you'll
get stereo.

Try two EV 635 dyanmics. (What no Schoeps!?!?)

Smaller, less directional, more sensitive, and even cheaper: two Behringer
ECM 8000s.

"Ty Ford" wrote in message

In Article , "Jari
Jokinen" wrote:
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental
performances to minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close
miking. Is a stereo mic with omni pattern good for this purpose and
can you recommend some model? I am prepared to spend 200 euro or
maybe 300 (about as much in dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen


Even most omnis are directional at high frequencies. If you can use
coincident omnis, with an angle between their exact fronts, you'll
get stereo.

Try two EV 635 dyanmics. (What no Schoeps!?!?)

Smaller, less directional, more sensitive, and even cheaper: two Behringer
ECM 8000s.

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

When I see ridiculous questions like these, which show that the poster doesn't
have the least understanding of recording techniques or technology, I seriously
wonder whether they are trolls...

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

When I see ridiculous questions like these, which show that the poster doesn't
have the least understanding of recording techniques or technology, I seriously
wonder whether they are trolls...

In article writes:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni to record a choir on a Michael Jackson
record a few years back. Or maybe he's hoping that he can get a
surround recording (with direction cues for things in back as well as
in front) with an "omni" mic.

When I see ridiculous questions like these, which show that the poster doesn't
have the least understanding of recording techniques or technology, I seriously
wonder whether they are trolls...

It would be wonderful if people could read and comprehend about half a
dozen books (no, I can't name them) dealing with the basic principles
of acoustics, interfacing, and studio procedures before they posted in
this newsgroup. Unfortunately that's not the way it works. People want
to get the answers on the Internet, and most of the time, they do get
answers. These aren't always the correct answers, or the answers they
want to hear, but those people aren't trolls, they're just ignorant of
the subjects about which they ask.

The trolls are the ones who want to manage their daughters' musical
career.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni to record a choir on a Michael Jackson
record a few years back. Or maybe he's hoping that he can get a
surround recording (with direction cues for things in back as well as
in front) with an "omni" mic.

When I see ridiculous questions like these, which show that the poster doesn't
have the least understanding of recording techniques or technology, I seriously
wonder whether they are trolls...

It would be wonderful if people could read and comprehend about half a
dozen books (no, I can't name them) dealing with the basic principles
of acoustics, interfacing, and studio procedures before they posted in
this newsgroup. Unfortunately that's not the way it works. People want
to get the answers on the Internet, and most of the time, they do get
answers. These aren't always the correct answers, or the answers they
want to hear, but those people aren't trolls, they're just ignorant of
the subjects about which they ask.

The trolls are the ones who want to manage their daughters' musical
career.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Ty Ford wrote:

Even most omnis are directional at high frequencies.

Yes, above ~5 kHz for the typical 20 - 21 mm cylinder shape ...


If you can use coincident omnis, with an angle between their exact
fronts, you'll get stereo.

Yes, above ~5 kHz for the typical 20 - 21 mm cylinder shape ...

As one might guess, for most recording situations I really do not agree
with this particular bit of advice, since stereophonic recording is so
much more effective (particularly over loudspeakers) if the midrange
and low frequencies are not completely mono. For headphone listening,
if you are recording a soloist or small ensemble, it can work--but not
at all as a general solution IMO.

Ty Ford wrote:

Even most omnis are directional at high frequencies.

Yes, above ~5 kHz for the typical 20 - 21 mm cylinder shape ...


If you can use coincident omnis, with an angle between their exact
fronts, you'll get stereo.

Yes, above ~5 kHz for the typical 20 - 21 mm cylinder shape ...

As one might guess, for most recording situations I really do not agree
with this particular bit of advice, since stereophonic recording is so
much more effective (particularly over loudspeakers) if the midrange
and low frequencies are not completely mono. For headphone listening,
if you are recording a soloist or small ensemble, it can work--but not
at all as a general solution IMO.

"Jari Jokinen" wrote in message
...
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental
performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a
stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some
model? I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in
dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen

I wouldn't say so. If you can afford that much, buy an Audio-Technica
AT-822. It's designed expressly for what you intend to do.

Norm Strong

"Jari Jokinen" wrote in message
...
I am going to do simple recordings of acoustic instrumental
performances to
minidisk. I dont't need portability or to use close miking. Is a
stereo mic
with omni pattern good for this purpose and can you recommend some
model? I
am prepared to spend 200 euro or maybe 300 (about as much in
dollars).

Thanks in advance
Jari Jokinen

I wouldn't say so. If you can afford that much, buy an Audio-Technica
AT-822. It's designed expressly for what you intend to do.

Norm Strong

In article znr1070023094k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

It would be wonderful if people could read and comprehend about half a
dozen books (no, I can't name them) dealing with the basic principles
of acoustics, interfacing, and studio procedures before they posted in
this newsgroup. Unfortunately that's not the way it works. People want
to get the answers on the Internet, and most of the time, they do get
answers. These aren't always the correct answers, or the answers they
want to hear, but those people aren't trolls, they're just ignorant of
the subjects about which they ask.

What if, maybe, they just read the FAQ?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article znr1070023094k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

It would be wonderful if people could read and comprehend about half a
dozen books (no, I can't name them) dealing with the basic principles
of acoustics, interfacing, and studio procedures before they posted in
this newsgroup. Unfortunately that's not the way it works. People want
to get the answers on the Internet, and most of the time, they do get
answers. These aren't always the correct answers, or the answers they
want to hear, but those people aren't trolls, they're just ignorant of
the subjects about which they ask.

What if, maybe, they just read the FAQ?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

What if, maybe, they just read the FAQ?

It's a start, but it doesn't answer weird, specific questions like
this, at least not without enough knowledge to interpret what's in the
FAQ.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

What if, maybe, they just read the FAQ?

It's a start, but it doesn't answer weird, specific questions like
this, at least not without enough knowledge to interpret what's in the
FAQ.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On 28 Nov 2003 12:16:14 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
What if, maybe, they just read the FAQ?

What? you have a FAQ for r.a.p.?
:-)

http://recordist.com/rap-faq/current
gives a 404

BTW, if you get too many questions about Cakewalk's Sonar, there is
new life in the cakewalk.audio newsgroup, on many if not all local
news servers. And a begining FAQ for cakewalk.audio at
http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/cafaq.html
but it is in HTML, so non-Sonar uses, and all HTML haters
please do not go there.

And no, we do not attempt to answer "what is the best mic"


Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

On 28 Nov 2003 12:16:14 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
What if, maybe, they just read the FAQ?

What? you have a FAQ for r.a.p.?
:-)

http://recordist.com/rap-faq/current
gives a 404

BTW, if you get too many questions about Cakewalk's Sonar, there is
new life in the cakewalk.audio newsgroup, on many if not all local
news servers. And a begining FAQ for cakewalk.audio at
http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/cafaq.html
but it is in HTML, so non-Sonar uses, and all HTML haters
please do not go there.

And no, we do not attempt to answer "what is the best mic"


Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

In Article , "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

When I see ridiculous questions like these, which show that the poster doesn't
have the least understanding of recording techniques or technology, I seriously
wonder whether they are trolls...


Just because you are paranoid doesn't necessarily mean that people aren't
out to get you, Bill.

Regards,

Ty Ford


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In Article , "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

When I see ridiculous questions like these, which show that the poster doesn't
have the least understanding of recording techniques or technology, I seriously
wonder whether they are trolls...


Just because you are paranoid doesn't necessarily mean that people aren't
out to get you, Bill.

Regards,

Ty Ford


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In article m writes:

What? you have a FAQ for r.a.p.?

http://www.RecAudioPro.net

How do you get people to go to the right place? Is rtfm.com still the
depository for FAQ links?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article m writes:

What? you have a FAQ for r.a.p.?

http://www.RecAudioPro.net

How do you get people to go to the right place? Is rtfm.com still the
depository for FAQ links?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1070023094k@trad...

In article writes:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni to record a choir on a Michael Jackson
record a few years back. --


Do you have any further information on this? Were Sound Diffraction Spheres
being used at the time? e.g. Neumann SBK130 or similar.
Thanks,

Mike

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1070023094k@trad...

In article writes:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni to record a choir on a Michael Jackson
record a few years back. --


Do you have any further information on this? Were Sound Diffraction Spheres
being used at the time? e.g. Neumann SBK130 or similar.
Thanks,

Mike

On 29 Nov 2003 11:14:23 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
In article m writes:
What? you have a FAQ for r.a.p.?

http://www.RecAudioPro.net

How do you get people to go to the right place? Is rtfm.com still the
depository for FAQ links?

I don't know.
Most groups with an active FAQ post either the FAQ itself or
a URL pointer to it at some suitable frequency.
News.answers still have a lot of FAQs posted.

I just use Google Group's search and see if there is a reference to
one, and the only reference that comes up is to the obsolete
site that DJ hosted for a while.

Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

On 29 Nov 2003 11:14:23 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:
In article m writes:
What? you have a FAQ for r.a.p.?

http://www.RecAudioPro.net

How do you get people to go to the right place? Is rtfm.com still the
depository for FAQ links?

I don't know.
Most groups with an active FAQ post either the FAQ itself or
a URL pointer to it at some suitable frequency.
News.answers still have a lot of FAQs posted.

I just use Google Group's search and see if there is a reference to
one, and the only reference that comes up is to the obsolete
site that DJ hosted for a while.

Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/prc/

In article writes:

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni

Do you have any further information on this? Were Sound Diffraction Spheres
being used at the time? e.g. Neumann SBK130 or similar.

I saw the article in Mix, but I forgot the details. Nothing fancy like
spheres, just two mics end-to-end. The stereo came from the
irregularity of the omni pattern at mid and high frequencies.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni

Do you have any further information on this? Were Sound Diffraction Spheres
being used at the time? e.g. Neumann SBK130 or similar.

I saw the article in Mix, but I forgot the details. Nothing fancy like
spheres, just two mics end-to-end. The stereo came from the
irregularity of the omni pattern at mid and high frequencies.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Thanks for responses. I did read one FAQ about microphones and I think I
understand why "stereo omni" doesn't make sense, but:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cg...tegory=9275&te
mplate=homepage

Jari Jokinen

Thanks for responses. I did read one FAQ about microphones and I think I
understand why "stereo omni" doesn't make sense, but:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cg...tegory=9275&te
mplate=homepage

Jari Jokinen

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1070023094k@trad...

In article writes:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni to record a choir on a Michael Jackson
record a few years back. --


Do you have any further information on this? Were Sound Diffraction Spheres
being used at the time? e.g. Neumann SBK130 or similar.

No baffle at all, so there was no intensity stereo except on the very
highest frequencies where the mikes became beamy. This gives an almost-mono
effect that worked well in a very cluttered rock mix, but which wouldn't
really be much use alone.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Gilmour wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1070023094k@trad...

In article writes:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record stereo.

Perhaps he read the story about Bruce Swedien using a "Blumlein pair"
of Neumann mics set to omni to record a choir on a Michael Jackson
record a few years back. --


Do you have any further information on this? Were Sound Diffraction Spheres
being used at the time? e.g. Neumann SBK130 or similar.

No baffle at all, so there was no intensity stereo except on the very
highest frequencies where the mikes became beamy. This gives an almost-mono
effect that worked well in a very cluttered rock mix, but which wouldn't
really be much use alone.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

William Sommerwerck wrote:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record
stereo.

I suppose it depends on what is meant by a "single mic."

If the two mics are on a single cable but can be separated by some
distance (like all of our binaural mic sets), then if you add a baffle
(like a Jecklin Disk or a Schneider Disk) they can record stereo very
nicely.

And they can record true binaural by mounting one near each ear.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

William Sommerwerck wrote:

By definition, a single mic with two omni capsules cannot record
stereo.

I suppose it depends on what is meant by a "single mic."

If the two mics are on a single cable but can be separated by some
distance (like all of our binaural mic sets), then if you add a baffle
(like a Jecklin Disk or a Schneider Disk) they can record stereo very
nicely.

And they can record true binaural by mounting one near each ear.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

"Jari Jokinen" wrote in message
understand why "stereo omni" doesn't make sense, but:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cg...tegory=9275&te


Ah, now it all makes sense. When the term "stereo mic" is raised in
pro audio circles the mental image that it conjured is of two capsules
mounted in a single body, like a Neumann SM69 or an AKG 422. When the
phrase "stereo omni mic" was raised in this thread I thought it was
pretty "out there", because the idea of two omni capsules placed
coincidentally is not useful (nonwithstanding the excellent point
about omnis being somewhat directional at high frequencies). But if
your concept of "stereo omni mic" is based on the mics pictured on the
website you listed then that's fair enough.

What I can't really understand or appreciate is the comments by Mike
Rivers about Bruce Swedien using a Blumlienpair of omnis? A Blumlien
pair by strict definition is a pair of Bidirectionals at 90 degrees to
each other, oriented at 45 degrees to the sound source. Omnis have
nothing to do with it ever. Some people do Blumlien MS; the derived
stereo configuration using a figure 8 M and a figure 8 S (of course)
is a true Blumlien pair.

Furthermore I would be grateful if Mr. Rivers would clarify the
comment;

"Or maybe he's hoping that he can get a
surround recording (with direction cues for things in back as well as
in front) with an "omni" mic."

Are you suggesting that a pair of omnis can encode multichannel
surround? Or?