I'm coming to the end of the line here and I'm ready to push the go
button and start buying the stuff to do some decent Vinyl to Digital
archiving. I only want to have to do this once and I really want to
strive for a very superior result compared to many people that are
doing this with a cheap turntable and a Sound Blaster card.

My main question is: at what point do you cross the line and go from
very good to absolute insanity in equipment acquisition?

These are some of my choices that I have narrowed down over the last
several months of research. I'm starting to think that I may be
spending money in the wrong places or maybe paying for capability or
performance that I don't need or won't notice the difference with the
end result. This will really be a "One Trick Pony", in that that I
have no other plans than doing the Analog to Digital conversion with
any of this.

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.
I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

Any and all suggestions, impressions, observations and experiences
will be appreciated. If you have any questions, please ask away!

Thanks!

Jimbo wrote:

I'm coming to the end of the line here

Don't worry, we will stand by with a straight jacket in case you start
to jitter.

and I'm ready to push the go
button and start buying the stuff to do some decent Vinyl to Digital
archiving.

Ah, yes. It is good that you came to us, you could have fallen prey to
the snake oil sellers out there.

I only want to have to do this once and I really want to
strive for a very superior result compared to many people that are
doing this with a cheap turntable and a Sound Blaster card.

Hmm ...

My main question is: at what point do you cross the line and go from
very good to absolute insanity in equipment acquisition?

[dangling clock]

Just stay within what I tell you and you will be completely safe, relax
now.

These are some of my choices that I have narrowed down over the last
several months of research. I'm starting to think that I may be
spending money in the wrong places or maybe paying for capability or
performance that I don't need or won't notice the difference with the
end result. This will really be a "One Trick Pony", in that that I
have no other plans than doing the Analog to Digital conversion with
any of this.

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

Go for the cheapest, I'll tell you to go buy a more expensive cartridge
than you intended.

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Ortofon X5 MC. This is not in my opinion negotiable.

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

For the PP2 to be acceptable you have to replace its opamp with a Burr
Brown one and I still wonder whether its frequency response is OK. It is
"kinda OK", but I got a much nicer frequency response when measuring my
cartridge with the Riaa in the NAD 302, even though that one appear to
have the classic "us style bass boost" my old Audire Diffet 1 preamp had
ex works. Based on a single review found I'd go for the Bottlehead, mind
you I have no religion in favour of valve stuff after having sold a
valve amp because it was too noisy to put on the compression drivers of
my (then) Tannoy 12's. My own first choice will be to measure again and
see what results I get with the Technics SU-9011 I got a few days ago
(Not by intent, but I couldn't purchase a SE-9021 without the preamp ...
). At a glance that combo sounds real nice, so the riaa might be nice
too. The Bottlehead does look interesting.

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

This is Arny's turf. For that purpose however I'd get me a Midiman
Audiophile and replace opamps on it, even though it is smd then it
should be comparatively easy. If it was about being able to afford the
cartridge I suggested I would go for the audiophile because it is
cheaper. Run it in 88.2 kHz mode and convert down after cleanup.

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.
I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

XP Pro has the best driver support of the three.

From what I have seen of Audition it appears to be a notable improvement
when compared to CE2k, it is annoying that the "budget version" is gone,
but it is what I will have to suggest if you want to "do something". If
you don't want to "do something" then a CE96 demo or the editor with
whatever burner software you get will do just fine.

Any and all suggestions, impressions, observations and experiences
will be appreciated. If you have any questions, please ask away!

Do you realise the magnitude of the project?

Thanks!

Ymmv, do be aware that my religious belief in the superiority of the
Burr Brown OPAx604 is contradicted by distortion measurements. This also
applies for many peoples belief in the superiority of valves.
Fortunately religions do not seem to be much influenced by facts. I also
like the more "upfront" sound of the OPAx134 series. One of the
alternative sound cards you ask about comes with AD275's ex works, they
are nice too and a wee bit "valvy".

You may wake up now and you remember nothing, as the clock strikes you
will go and purchase what I told you of your own free will and on your
entirely own idea based on your own research.

[snapping fingers]


O;-)


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Jimbo wrote:

I'm coming to the end of the line here

Don't worry, we will stand by with a straight jacket in case you start
to jitter.

and I'm ready to push the go
button and start buying the stuff to do some decent Vinyl to Digital
archiving.

Ah, yes. It is good that you came to us, you could have fallen prey to
the snake oil sellers out there.

I only want to have to do this once and I really want to
strive for a very superior result compared to many people that are
doing this with a cheap turntable and a Sound Blaster card.

Hmm ...

My main question is: at what point do you cross the line and go from
very good to absolute insanity in equipment acquisition?

[dangling clock]

Just stay within what I tell you and you will be completely safe, relax
now.

These are some of my choices that I have narrowed down over the last
several months of research. I'm starting to think that I may be
spending money in the wrong places or maybe paying for capability or
performance that I don't need or won't notice the difference with the
end result. This will really be a "One Trick Pony", in that that I
have no other plans than doing the Analog to Digital conversion with
any of this.

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

Go for the cheapest, I'll tell you to go buy a more expensive cartridge
than you intended.

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Ortofon X5 MC. This is not in my opinion negotiable.

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

For the PP2 to be acceptable you have to replace its opamp with a Burr
Brown one and I still wonder whether its frequency response is OK. It is
"kinda OK", but I got a much nicer frequency response when measuring my
cartridge with the Riaa in the NAD 302, even though that one appear to
have the classic "us style bass boost" my old Audire Diffet 1 preamp had
ex works. Based on a single review found I'd go for the Bottlehead, mind
you I have no religion in favour of valve stuff after having sold a
valve amp because it was too noisy to put on the compression drivers of
my (then) Tannoy 12's. My own first choice will be to measure again and
see what results I get with the Technics SU-9011 I got a few days ago
(Not by intent, but I couldn't purchase a SE-9021 without the preamp ...
). At a glance that combo sounds real nice, so the riaa might be nice
too. The Bottlehead does look interesting.

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

This is Arny's turf. For that purpose however I'd get me a Midiman
Audiophile and replace opamps on it, even though it is smd then it
should be comparatively easy. If it was about being able to afford the
cartridge I suggested I would go for the audiophile because it is
cheaper. Run it in 88.2 kHz mode and convert down after cleanup.

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.
I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

XP Pro has the best driver support of the three.

From what I have seen of Audition it appears to be a notable improvement
when compared to CE2k, it is annoying that the "budget version" is gone,
but it is what I will have to suggest if you want to "do something". If
you don't want to "do something" then a CE96 demo or the editor with
whatever burner software you get will do just fine.

Any and all suggestions, impressions, observations and experiences
will be appreciated. If you have any questions, please ask away!

Do you realise the magnitude of the project?

Thanks!

Ymmv, do be aware that my religious belief in the superiority of the
Burr Brown OPAx604 is contradicted by distortion measurements. This also
applies for many peoples belief in the superiority of valves.
Fortunately religions do not seem to be much influenced by facts. I also
like the more "upfront" sound of the OPAx134 series. One of the
alternative sound cards you ask about comes with AD275's ex works, they
are nice too and a wee bit "valvy".

You may wake up now and you remember nothing, as the clock strikes you
will go and purchase what I told you of your own free will and on your
entirely own idea based on your own research.

[snapping fingers]


O;-)


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

"Jimbo" wrote in message
om

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

AFAIK there is really zero reliable evidence to base this decision on. There
are AFAIK no technical tests or reliable listening tests of vinyl playback
equipment published *anywhere*. I picked a Grado P2 and it works for me.

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Shure V15 IV or V if you are willing to tune capacitive loading with a test
record, Grado Silver if you aren't.

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

The NAD is no doubt overkill. Parasound PPH-100 would be good enough.

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

The Mia24 is no doubt overkill.

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.

More overkill.

I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

XP Pro probably has the best driver support.

"Jimbo" wrote in message
om

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

AFAIK there is really zero reliable evidence to base this decision on. There
are AFAIK no technical tests or reliable listening tests of vinyl playback
equipment published *anywhere*. I picked a Grado P2 and it works for me.

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Shure V15 IV or V if you are willing to tune capacitive loading with a test
record, Grado Silver if you aren't.

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

The NAD is no doubt overkill. Parasound PPH-100 would be good enough.

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

The Mia24 is no doubt overkill.

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.

More overkill.

I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

XP Pro probably has the best driver support.

Arny Krueger wrote:

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

The NAD is no doubt overkill. Parasound PPH-100 would be good enough.

I have erred, I read this as PP1 ...


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Arny Krueger wrote:

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

The NAD is no doubt overkill. Parasound PPH-100 would be good enough.

I have erred, I read this as PP1 ...


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

WOW!
Thanks for the fast response you two.
OK, let me go over this and ask some seemingly silly questions.
Overkill, eh?
I'm happy to hear that the dedicated workstation rig will be overkill. This
is a server that I used to use that right now is just sitting around doing
nothing. So I am happy to hear that I may yet milk a few more years from it.
I was leaning towards XP anyways, so there we go!

The price difference between the two phono preamps (PPH-100 & PP-2) is
negligible, so I guess I will go with the NAD PP-2 if there is no real
difference in the price. From what I am reading, it seems that the PP-2 is
more than acceptable for what I want to do. That saves me a bunch of time
having to build the Seduction phono preamp.

I have heard about nasty grounding hum issues with Grado cartridges with the
Regas because of some unusual way Rega does or doesn't do the grounding on
their tone arms. That is why I kind of wanted to stay with a Rega Cartridge
unless there was a real compelling reason not to. If I stay Rega/Rega then
there is a lot of adjusting that I don't have to do. If I switch cartridges,
then I may also have some height adjustments to make with the tone arm and
I'm not really looking forward to having to do that unless the benefits will
be substantial. I will look into the Ortofon X5 MC. Thanks for the tip! I
get the feeling Peter that you feel that is a pretty awesome cartridge. What
do you like about it?

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some earlier post
Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but now you tell me that
is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

Thanks again to both of you.





"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jimbo" wrote in message
om

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

AFAIK there is really zero reliable evidence to base this decision on.
There
are AFAIK no technical tests or reliable listening tests of vinyl playback
equipment published *anywhere*. I picked a Grado P2 and it works for me.

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Shure V15 IV or V if you are willing to tune capacitive loading with a
test
record, Grado Silver if you aren't.

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

The NAD is no doubt overkill. Parasound PPH-100 would be good enough.

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

The Mia24 is no doubt overkill.

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.

More overkill.

I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

XP Pro probably has the best driver support.

WOW!
Thanks for the fast response you two.
OK, let me go over this and ask some seemingly silly questions.
Overkill, eh?
I'm happy to hear that the dedicated workstation rig will be overkill. This
is a server that I used to use that right now is just sitting around doing
nothing. So I am happy to hear that I may yet milk a few more years from it.
I was leaning towards XP anyways, so there we go!

The price difference between the two phono preamps (PPH-100 & PP-2) is
negligible, so I guess I will go with the NAD PP-2 if there is no real
difference in the price. From what I am reading, it seems that the PP-2 is
more than acceptable for what I want to do. That saves me a bunch of time
having to build the Seduction phono preamp.

I have heard about nasty grounding hum issues with Grado cartridges with the
Regas because of some unusual way Rega does or doesn't do the grounding on
their tone arms. That is why I kind of wanted to stay with a Rega Cartridge
unless there was a real compelling reason not to. If I stay Rega/Rega then
there is a lot of adjusting that I don't have to do. If I switch cartridges,
then I may also have some height adjustments to make with the tone arm and
I'm not really looking forward to having to do that unless the benefits will
be substantial. I will look into the Ortofon X5 MC. Thanks for the tip! I
get the feeling Peter that you feel that is a pretty awesome cartridge. What
do you like about it?

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some earlier post
Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but now you tell me that
is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

Thanks again to both of you.





"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jimbo" wrote in message
om

So maybe we can play a quick game of "This or That".
Would a "NORMAL" person notice the difference between any of these
after the recording is down sampled and burned to a CD? Where is the
bang per buck sweet spot?

Turntable: Rega P-2 or Rega P-3 or P-25?

AFAIK there is really zero reliable evidence to base this decision on.
There
are AFAIK no technical tests or reliable listening tests of vinyl playback
equipment published *anywhere*. I picked a Grado P2 and it works for me.

Phonograph Cartridge: Rega Elys, or Super Elys, or Rega Exact?

Shure V15 IV or V if you are willing to tune capacitive loading with a
test
record, Grado Silver if you aren't.

Phonograph Preamp: NAD PP2 Phono-Preamp, or Bottlehead Seduction Tube
Preamp?

The NAD is no doubt overkill. Parasound PPH-100 would be good enough.

Sound Card: Echo Mia24 or the Lynx L22? This last one is a source of
concern because I can get the Mia24 for about $200 but the L22 is
about $700. Is the L22 almost four times the card than the Mia24? Even
if it is more capable, would I ever hear the difference for what I
want to do?

The Mia24 is no doubt overkill.

Fortunately I already have the computer hardware for a dedicated audio
workstation rig. If you are curious, it's an Intel dual processor
P-III 1GHz Server, with 2 GB of SDRAM, Seagate Cheetah Hard Drive and
another SCSI Cheetah for the finished result. I have stripped out all
of the extraneous hardware that will not be necessary for recording.

More overkill.

I'm still thinking about the operating system. The contestants are
Windows 2000, XP Pro or even Linux Mandrake 9.2 Distribution. I wanted
to let the soundcard and driver suite guide me on that question.

XP Pro probably has the best driver support.

Jimbo wrote:

The price difference between the two phono preamps (PPH-100 & PP-2) is
negligible, so I guess I will go with the NAD PP-2 if there is no real
difference in the price. From what I am reading, it seems that the PP-2 is
more than acceptable for what I want to do. That saves me a bunch of time
having to build the Seduction phono preamp.

Please note that I had misread PP2 for PP1. Consequently I just canceled
my first follow up.

... I will look into the Ortofon X5 MC. Thanks for the tip! I
get the feeling Peter that you feel that is a pretty awesome cartridge. What
do you like about it?

I like the sound of my old records when played back with it and it is
high output so that I do not have to use a stepup. Also - based on my
own measurement of a B&K test record - it appears to be linear. As a
bonus advantage its tonearm requirements are humble and it can live
happily in real world "ex works" arms, aka "japanese carrying handles".

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some earlier post
Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but now you tell me that
is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

It could be about the context and about that your signal source is
"second hand audio", new audio is the stuff that comes from the source
via a quality microphone.

I didn't keep the Midiman Audiophile I tried, but that was because I
entered a rapid upgrade race with myself and ended up by having a 1010
LT, basically the same, but more of it. There is plenty well sounding
vinyl around, but there are limits to how well sounding it can be due to
various geometrical distortions inherent in the format. Please note that
I suggest spending more on transducer and a wee bit less on sound card
than you intend to.

Thanks again to both of you.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Jimbo wrote:

The price difference between the two phono preamps (PPH-100 & PP-2) is
negligible, so I guess I will go with the NAD PP-2 if there is no real
difference in the price. From what I am reading, it seems that the PP-2 is
more than acceptable for what I want to do. That saves me a bunch of time
having to build the Seduction phono preamp.

Please note that I had misread PP2 for PP1. Consequently I just canceled
my first follow up.

... I will look into the Ortofon X5 MC. Thanks for the tip! I
get the feeling Peter that you feel that is a pretty awesome cartridge. What
do you like about it?

I like the sound of my old records when played back with it and it is
high output so that I do not have to use a stepup. Also - based on my
own measurement of a B&K test record - it appears to be linear. As a
bonus advantage its tonearm requirements are humble and it can live
happily in real world "ex works" arms, aka "japanese carrying handles".

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some earlier post
Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but now you tell me that
is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

It could be about the context and about that your signal source is
"second hand audio", new audio is the stuff that comes from the source
via a quality microphone.

I didn't keep the Midiman Audiophile I tried, but that was because I
entered a rapid upgrade race with myself and ended up by having a 1010
LT, basically the same, but more of it. There is plenty well sounding
vinyl around, but there are limits to how well sounding it can be due to
various geometrical distortions inherent in the format. Please note that
I suggest spending more on transducer and a wee bit less on sound card
than you intend to.

Thanks again to both of you.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Jimbo,

Overkill, eh?

You already got plenty of great advice. I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

--Ethan

Jimbo,

Overkill, eh?

You already got plenty of great advice. I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

--Ethan

"Jimbo" wrote in message
. com

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some
earlier post Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but
now you tell me that is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

Vinyl has dynamic range on the order of 70 dB, best day of its life. The Mia
has more like 100 dB, and the L22 is more like 112 dB.

I might add that IME the *best* preamp for transcribing vinyl is IME a
standard preamp such as you'd use to drive a power amp in a regular stereo
system. The output level of a regular preamp matches the audio
production-type sound cards better, and the volume control makes setting
levels easy. I use either an Apt/Holman or Conrad-Johnson preamp for the
purpose.

"Jimbo" wrote in message
. com

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some
earlier post Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but
now you tell me that is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

Vinyl has dynamic range on the order of 70 dB, best day of its life. The Mia
has more like 100 dB, and the L22 is more like 112 dB.

I might add that IME the *best* preamp for transcribing vinyl is IME a
standard preamp such as you'd use to drive a power amp in a regular stereo
system. The output level of a regular preamp matches the audio
production-type sound cards better, and the volume control makes setting
levels easy. I use either an Apt/Holman or Conrad-Johnson preamp for the
purpose.

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message ...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message ...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

is this deliberate?

"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

is this deliberate?

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:FJRvb.81481$Dw6.388046@attbi_s02
"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than
any LP could possibly achieve.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

is this deliberate?

I don't think so. It's largely fixed in the Audigy.

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:FJRvb.81481$Dw6.388046@attbi_s02
"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than
any LP could possibly achieve.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

is this deliberate?

I don't think so. It's largely fixed in the Audigy.

"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

Yes, and the Audigy SE is pretty cheap these days if you want more margin.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

No problem, record at 48 kHz, edit, resample and dither in software.
You'd be hard pressed to pick the SB live resampling errors when recording
vinyl anyway.

TonyP.

"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...

I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

Yes, and the Audigy SE is pretty cheap these days if you want more margin.

Only if you record at 48 KHz. At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor
internal resampling that may result into some audible differences.

No problem, record at 48 kHz, edit, resample and dither in software.
You'd be hard pressed to pick the SB live resampling errors when recording
vinyl anyway.

TonyP.

So if I understand you correctly Arny, are you saying I should use the phono
pre amp and then output to a stereo preamp and then to the Mia24?
OR
Are you saying I should skip the phono preamp all together? If I do that,
what do I do to correct to the RIAA equalization curve?

Thanks!

BTW, I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card already in one of my
computers. Do you know what the dynamic range of that card is? Would I
notice an improvement over the Turtle Beach SC if I upgraded to a Mia24?

Thanks!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jimbo" wrote in message
. com

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some
earlier post Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but
now you tell me that is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

Vinyl has dynamic range on the order of 70 dB, best day of its life. The
Mia
has more like 100 dB, and the L22 is more like 112 dB.

I might add that IME the *best* preamp for transcribing vinyl is IME a
standard preamp such as you'd use to drive a power amp in a regular stereo
system. The output level of a regular preamp matches the audio
production-type sound cards better, and the volume control makes setting
levels easy. I use either an Apt/Holman or Conrad-Johnson preamp for the
purpose.

So if I understand you correctly Arny, are you saying I should use the phono
pre amp and then output to a stereo preamp and then to the Mia24?
OR
Are you saying I should skip the phono preamp all together? If I do that,
what do I do to correct to the RIAA equalization curve?

Thanks!

BTW, I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card already in one of my
computers. Do you know what the dynamic range of that card is? Would I
notice an improvement over the Turtle Beach SC if I upgraded to a Mia24?

Thanks!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jimbo" wrote in message
. com

Finally, I am left with the sound card. I have noticed in some
earlier post Arny that you rated the L22 higher than the Mia24, but
now you tell me that is overkill. Could you explain what you mean?

Vinyl has dynamic range on the order of 70 dB, best day of its life. The
Mia
has more like 100 dB, and the L22 is more like 112 dB.

I might add that IME the *best* preamp for transcribing vinyl is IME a
standard preamp such as you'd use to drive a power amp in a regular stereo
system. The output level of a regular preamp matches the audio
production-type sound cards better, and the volume control makes setting
levels easy. I use either an Apt/Holman or Conrad-Johnson preamp for the
purpose.

"Jimbo" wrote in message
m
So if I understand you correctly Arny, are you saying I should use
the phono pre amp and then output to a stereo preamp and then to the
Mia24? OR
Are you saying I should skip the phono preamp all together? If I do
that, what do I do to correct to the RIAA equalization curve?

No way should the RIAA be skipped. It's still best done in the analog
domain.

What I'm saying is that an ordinary audiophile preamp of the classic kind
that has both a RIAA preamp and a high-level line amplifier, is a good tool
to use for digitizing vinyl. I named two specific examples that I own - an
Apt/Holman preamp and a Conrad-Johnson CJ-series audiophile preamp. Others
that I would consider using include the usual MacIntosh C-series, Marantz 7,
Hafler DH101 , and even the Dynaco PAT-5 audiophile preamps.

BTW, I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card already in one of my
computers. Do you know what the dynamic range of that card is?

Please see:

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/santa_cruz/index.htm

I came up with about 86 dB dynamic range. This is about 20 dB better than
vinyl - more than enough overkill.


Would I notice an improvement over the Turtle Beach SC if I upgraded to a
Mia24?

I don't think so. Not if you fully exploit the SC.

You might want to listen to the test files posted at
http://www-pcabx.com/product/santa_cruz/index.htm . They are the results of
straight-wire bypass testing of the SC as a record/play device. In 5 passes
you should be able to hear a little change. In one pass, nobody heard
nuttin'. Listen for yourself!

"Jimbo" wrote in message
m
So if I understand you correctly Arny, are you saying I should use
the phono pre amp and then output to a stereo preamp and then to the
Mia24? OR
Are you saying I should skip the phono preamp all together? If I do
that, what do I do to correct to the RIAA equalization curve?

No way should the RIAA be skipped. It's still best done in the analog
domain.

What I'm saying is that an ordinary audiophile preamp of the classic kind
that has both a RIAA preamp and a high-level line amplifier, is a good tool
to use for digitizing vinyl. I named two specific examples that I own - an
Apt/Holman preamp and a Conrad-Johnson CJ-series audiophile preamp. Others
that I would consider using include the usual MacIntosh C-series, Marantz 7,
Hafler DH101 , and even the Dynaco PAT-5 audiophile preamps.

BTW, I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz sound card already in one of my
computers. Do you know what the dynamic range of that card is?

Please see:

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/santa_cruz/index.htm

I came up with about 86 dB dynamic range. This is about 20 dB better than
vinyl - more than enough overkill.


Would I notice an improvement over the Turtle Beach SC if I upgraded to a
Mia24?

I don't think so. Not if you fully exploit the SC.

You might want to listen to the test files posted at
http://www-pcabx.com/product/santa_cruz/index.htm . They are the results of
straight-wire bypass testing of the SC as a record/play device. In 5 passes
you should be able to hear a little change. In one pass, nobody heard
nuttin'. Listen for yourself!

I agree with Ethan her SB Lives are very good and would do what you want,
another option is to go for something like the ST Audio DSP2000
http://www.staudio.com/products/dsp2000.html

zzsounds have them for $450 down from a RRP of $700
http://www.zzounds.com/item--STODSP2000. You may be able to pick up a
dedicated A2D card 2 channel 24-Bit/96Khz for as little as $100 if you hunt
around and these give better results than most soundcards.



"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
Jimbo,

Overkill, eh?

You already got plenty of great advice. I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

--Ethan

I agree with Ethan her SB Lives are very good and would do what you want,
another option is to go for something like the ST Audio DSP2000
http://www.staudio.com/products/dsp2000.html

zzsounds have them for $450 down from a RRP of $700
http://www.zzounds.com/item--STODSP2000. You may be able to pick up a
dedicated A2D card 2 channel 24-Bit/96Khz for as little as $100 if you hunt
around and these give better results than most soundcards.



"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
Jimbo,

Overkill, eh?

You already got plenty of great advice. I'll just add that an SB Live has
frequency response, distortion, and noise specs *far* better than any LP
could possibly achieve.

--Ethan

Kike,

At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor internal resampling that may result into
some audible differences.

I didn't say an SB Live is perfectly transparent. However, it's performance
is orders of magnitude better than the finest, most expensive LP, turntable,
and cartridge could ever hope to achieve. :-)

--Ethan

Kike,

At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor internal resampling that may result into
some audible differences.

I didn't say an SB Live is perfectly transparent. However, it's performance
is orders of magnitude better than the finest, most expensive LP, turntable,
and cartridge could ever hope to achieve. :-)

--Ethan

Ethan Winer wrote:

Kike,

At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor internal resampling that may result into
some audible differences.

I didn't say an SB Live is perfectly transparent. However, it's performance
is orders of magnitude better than the finest, most expensive LP, turntable,
and cartridge could ever hope to achieve. :-)

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so mere
percentage math may not apply.

--Ethan


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Ethan Winer wrote:

Kike,

At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor internal resampling that may result into
some audible differences.

I didn't say an SB Live is perfectly transparent. However, it's performance
is orders of magnitude better than the finest, most expensive LP, turntable,
and cartridge could ever hope to achieve. :-)

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so mere
percentage math may not apply.

--Ethan


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message

Ethan Winer wrote:

Kike,

At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor internal resampling that may
result into some audible differences.

I didn't say an SB Live is perfectly transparent. However, it's
performance is orders of magnitude better than the finest, most
expensive LP, turntable, and cartridge could ever hope to achieve.
:-)

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so
mere percentage math may not apply.

If you compare like forms of distortion, the SBLive outperforms most if not
all vinyl playback systems.

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message

Ethan Winer wrote:

Kike,

At 44.1 KHz it suffers from poor internal resampling that may
result into some audible differences.

I didn't say an SB Live is perfectly transparent. However, it's
performance is orders of magnitude better than the finest, most
expensive LP, turntable, and cartridge could ever hope to achieve.
:-)

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so
mere percentage math may not apply.

If you compare like forms of distortion, the SBLive outperforms most if not
all vinyl playback systems.

Arny Krueger wrote:

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so
mere percentage math may not apply.

If you compare like forms of distortion, the SBLive outperforms most if not
all vinyl playback systems.

Hmmm ... well, I did get some fine recordings of FM radio via my K7S5A
mobo's AC97, so you could be right.

Anyway, would you - or any other - by any chance know something about
the Technics SU-9011 preamp? - just got me one (package deal with
poweramp, no way to avoid pre!).


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Arny Krueger wrote:

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so
mere percentage math may not apply.

If you compare like forms of distortion, the SBLive outperforms most if not
all vinyl playback systems.

Hmmm ... well, I did get some fine recordings of FM radio via my K7S5A
mobo's AC97, so you could be right.

Anyway, would you - or any other - by any chance know something about
the Technics SU-9011 preamp? - just got me one (package deal with
poweramp, no way to avoid pre!).


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jimbo" wrote in message
m
So if I understand you correctly Arny, are you saying I should use
the phono pre amp and then output to a stereo preamp and then to the
Mia24?
OR
Are you saying I should skip the phono preamp all together? If I do
that, what do I do to correct to the RIAA equalization curve?

No way should the RIAA be skipped. It's still best done in the analog
domain.

What I'm saying is that an ordinary audiophile preamp of the classic kind
that has both a RIAA preamp and a high-level line amplifier, is a good
tool
to use for digitizing vinyl. I named two specific examples that I own - an
Apt/Holman preamp and a Conrad-Johnson CJ-series audiophile preamp. Others
that I would consider using include the usual MacIntosh C-series, Marantz
7,
Hafler DH101 , and even the Dynaco PAT-5 audiophile preamps.

Would I notice an improvement over the Turtle Beach SC if I upgraded to a
Mia24?

I don't think so. Not if you fully exploit the SC.

OK, sounds good Arny, but what do you mean by "fully exploit" the Santa Cruz
card? What I mean is would just following the directions of my
recording/editing program be enough, or is there some arcane/undocumented
set-up mojo that would need to be done?

Finally, what about using the Bottlehead Seduction kit
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp.../seduction.htm and their
Foreplay Line Stage
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp..._stage_kit.htm .

The reason I came back to that is that I may eventually use them in a Hi-Fi
set up I'm thinking about and I like the idea of building it myself.

Do you think they would be acceptable? They may be over-kill, and if they
are that is fine. I just do not want them to be deficient.

Thanks again, you have been very helpful Arny.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jimbo" wrote in message
m
So if I understand you correctly Arny, are you saying I should use
the phono pre amp and then output to a stereo preamp and then to the
Mia24?
OR
Are you saying I should skip the phono preamp all together? If I do
that, what do I do to correct to the RIAA equalization curve?

No way should the RIAA be skipped. It's still best done in the analog
domain.

What I'm saying is that an ordinary audiophile preamp of the classic kind
that has both a RIAA preamp and a high-level line amplifier, is a good
tool
to use for digitizing vinyl. I named two specific examples that I own - an
Apt/Holman preamp and a Conrad-Johnson CJ-series audiophile preamp. Others
that I would consider using include the usual MacIntosh C-series, Marantz
7,
Hafler DH101 , and even the Dynaco PAT-5 audiophile preamps.

Would I notice an improvement over the Turtle Beach SC if I upgraded to a
Mia24?

I don't think so. Not if you fully exploit the SC.

OK, sounds good Arny, but what do you mean by "fully exploit" the Santa Cruz
card? What I mean is would just following the directions of my
recording/editing program be enough, or is there some arcane/undocumented
set-up mojo that would need to be done?

Finally, what about using the Bottlehead Seduction kit
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp.../seduction.htm and their
Foreplay Line Stage
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp..._stage_kit.htm .

The reason I came back to that is that I may eventually use them in a Hi-Fi
set up I'm thinking about and I like the idea of building it myself.

Do you think they would be acceptable? They may be over-kill, and if they
are that is fine. I just do not want them to be deficient.

Thanks again, you have been very helpful Arny.

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

There are different kinds of distortion that matter differently, so
mere percentage math may not apply.

If you compare like forms of distortion, the SBLive outperforms most
if not all vinyl playback systems.

Hmmm ... well, I did get some fine recordings of FM radio via my K7S5A
mobo's AC97, so you could be right.

Anyway, would you - or any other - by any chance know something about
the Technics SU-9011 preamp? - just got me one (package deal with
poweramp, no way to avoid pre!).

I only know that it existed back in the days of, but I never even ever saw
one. Since it's legacy equipment, the checkout is everything.