[jailhouserock]

On Mar 22, 10:18 pm, Romeo Rondeau wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:06 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
My Elcaset EL-7 would kick your digital disk player to the curb.

I have Len Feldman's original review of this thing, and it was pretty
good for a 1970s consumer format, but I wouldn't go anywhere near that
far.

Why are we even bothering to talk to this guy? There's no hope.

Sounds like a troll to me :-)

lame comeback- everyone that posts info backed by solid facts, that
contradicts your audio preferences, is a troll ?

I think you're in denial, and having second thoughts about that
digital you invested in.

have you tried a cassette deck at 3.75 IPS with chrome/metal tape ?

[jailhouserock]

On Mar 22, 7:04 pm, Soundhaspriority wrote:
wrote in message

om...

On Mar 22, 10:45 am, "Mike Rivers" wrote:
On Mar 22, 8:38 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

The vintage cartridge formats give a lot more performance per dollar,
than the new digital formats.

I think you need to send your time machine in for repair.

My Elcaset EL-7 would kick your digital disk player to the curb. You
are starting to remind me of those kids with MP3 players jammed in
their ears.

I agree, and I'm now planning to record Pete Seeger completely on an Elcaset
recorder. I've found the address of the home for the aged where he resides,
and I'm sure I can backpack a system in to get some hot recordings.

Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894



oh, gee, that's funny...

"ha-ha"

"ha"

and you guys are calling me a troll !

stick to the OP, where's your cassette 3.75 IPS experience ? if you
haven't tried it, then read, don't post

[jailhouserock]

On Mar 23, 9:14 am, DeserTBoB wrote:
On 23 Mar 2007 06:54:30 -0700, "jailhouserock"





wrote:
On Mar 22, 5:17 pm, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:
"jailhouserock" wrote in message

roups.com...

Specs at +/- 3 dB rating are somewhat less, but still quite
impressive
for 1/4" 4-track analog tape at 3.75 IPS, again NAB:

25 HZ TO 22,000 HZ TYPE II (FeCr)
25 HZ TO 20,000 HZ TYPE I (standard FeO2)

Basically CD quality or better, from 1/4" tape in a cartridge, at
only snip

He's definitely ready for the mental hospital in Scranton. Someone
want to deliver him?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


translation- DeserTBob is in the market for Tascam, Teac, and Bic
decks with 3.75 IPS option now- he's already purchased every 8-track
deck I posted a review on.

[jailhouserock]

On Mar 23, 9:01 am, chestek
wrote:
jailhouserock wrote:
Yes, you can get a reel to reel and get
more fidelity- but who wants to thread tape every 20 minutes.

And your 3-3/4 ips cassette (w/ a thin C-90 tape) will get you 22 1/2
minutes per side. No auto-reverse on yourTascam.

JChestek


wow, you blew it there- NO ONE in this group will rave about auto-
reverse on a cassette deck- that option totally degrades the quality
of any compact cassette machine- do a search in the archives.

it this audio.pro, or audio-no ?

it's a lot easier to flip a cart, than flip 2 reels, and rethread
tape- and try storing all those 7.5 IPS or 15 IPS tape reels- better
rent a gymnasium out, just for storage !

[Scott Dorsey]

jailhouserock wrote:

The Elcaset at 3.75 IPS, sounds better than my 4 other reel decks at
7.5 IPS, it's because the Elk deck pulls the tape out and handles it
away from the cart, with no backing pad- azimuth and tracking are dead-
nuts. It's simply amazing with the FeCr tapes. If I had to record
something with the best possible fidelity, I'd use the Elk deck with
FeCr- not the reels !

Perhaps you would be better off moving this thread to rec.audio.opinion
where I think it might be better received.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 23, 10:08 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

I have a stack of FeCr Elcaset tapes sitting right here.

I think that it's really cool that we have a collector of obsolete
format tape decks and media in our midst. Some day someone might
recover a really high quality recording of vintage Bob Dylan recorded
on Elcassette and we'll know just where to send him in order to get it
copied on to CD . . . except that said collector doesn't think too
much of CDs, so he'll probably offer to copy it on to a compact
cassette at 3-3/4 ips.

Too bad he's delusional. He could be a valuable resource.

I keep checked to see if thread is cross-posted to rec.audio.opinion
or rec.audio.high-end, but no, he seems to thing that it belongs with
the professionals or the producers, or whatever we are here.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 23, 10:25 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

have you tried a cassette deck at 3.75 IPS with chrome/metal tape ?

These aren't exactly an off-the-shelf item, but since you seem to
think that people should give them a chance, how about sending me one
of yours and I'll review it for Pro Audio Review. Are you up for that?
I'll bet I can get the editor to run the article as a "Revisited . .
25 years later" piece.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 23, 10:20 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

now, if you are so DIEHARD into digital, how come you don't have a DSD
recorder ? put your money where your mouth is- you're dissing analog
for digital, but you haven't invested in cutting-edge digital yourself

perhaps your format is UNAFFORDABLE ?

I never said I was die-hard digital, I just don't tihnk that
Elcassette is anything but a curiosity for someone who chooses to
collect things like hat.

First off, if you want to listen to something played on it, you have
to record it first. If pre-recorded Elcassettes were ever available,
they certainly are not, for today's music. So what are you making your
high resolution recordings from?

Second, DSD is no longer a $10,000 format. An 8-channel Sonoma system
is only about $8,000. And Korg has introduced two portable DSD
recorders for under $1,000. And further, an Ampex AG440 in good shape,
which WILL blow away your Elcassette in a serious lab test, can be had
for $500, and uses tape that's currently available.

On the other hand, I don't have highly critical ears and frankly don't
care if I have to suffer with frequency response that doesn't go above
20 kHz and a dynamic range of only 95 dB. I can live with that and
enjoy the convenience of playing CDs or recording on a hard disk
recorder that I can put in a jacket pocket. And when I have a client
who wants to pay for analog tape, I can provide that and let him take
home something that's on a standard media format.

[duty-honor-country]

I originally started this thread looking for TASCAM 122/234 info-
obviously very few here have even TRIED the 3.75 IPS cassette format,
and have (foolishly) jumped to digital formats already.

Although the TASCAM/TEAC decks have pretty good specs, the BIC decks
are even better, i.e. BIC T-3, T-4 with 3.75 IPS- the T-4M has a 24khz
top end.

But since quite a few you have asked "why bother, just go digital",
let me say this- if you can put your money where your mouth is, then
buy one of these TASCAM DSD recorders- and "maybe" I'd agree, that
digital is better- at least with this machine. It records in SACD
quality 192/24 rez.

It would give analog-like performance and sound, but it costs $10
grand new. Now, unless you are going to ANTE UP and buy one, now-
then SIT DOWN. Otherwise you have Ferrari tastes, on a beer budget.

it's called the TASCAM DV-RA1000HD - and I do admit, this machine
would be better than any analog tape machine below 15 IPS. But you
can't find it at Rex, Circuit City, or Walmart, where I'm getting the
notion, a lot of you guys buy your stuff. Read on:

http://www.tascam.com/Products/dvra1000hd.html

The TASCAM DV-RA1000HD is the new go-to device for high-resolution
mixdown, mastering and event recording. It supports recording to CD,
DVD or hard disk media at up to 192kHz/24-bit PCM resolution. Like
its
predecessor, the DV-RA1000, it also records Direct Stream Digital
audio, Sony's revolutionary format created for Super Audio CDs.
TASCAM
remains the only manufacturer to offer Direct Stream Digital
recording
for under $10,000, making the format attainable for audiophile
archival and professional studio mixdown.


The DV-RA1000HD includes DSP for EQ and dynamics processing, a USB
2.0
connection for computer transfer and a rear panel packed with the
connections professionals demand. Minnetonka's discWelder Bronze 1000
for DSD conversion and DVD-Audio disc authoring is offered free from
TASCAM for DV-RA1000HD owners. The DV-RA1000HD provides more than 60
hours of recording to its built-in 60GB hard drive, making it ideal
for live recording. Recording is also possible direct to DVD+RW media
for over fi ve hours of recording at better-than-CD quality. Designed
for recording studio mixdown, audiophile archival, live recording and
installed sound, you can trust the DV-RA1000HD with your most
treasured master recordings.

The DV-RA1000HD is the quintessential high-definition digital
recorder:

High-quality stereo recording at up 192kHz/24-bit or DSD format
Records to Built-in 60GB hard drive, DVD+RW, CD-R/RW media
Archives to DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R and DVD+RW discs
Multiband compression and 3-band EQ mixdown effects
USB 2.0 connection to PC for use as DVD data drive
Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA inputs and outputs
Balanced AES/EBU inputs and outputs, running at normal, double-speed
and double-wire formats
SDIF-3 DSD input and output for external conversion and processing of
DSD audio
Word Sync In, Out, Thru
RS-232C serial control
PS/2 keyboard connector for title editing
User-definable function keys
Large, backlit LCD display
Records to standard CD-DA, Broadcast Wave and DSDIFF formats
Dedicated input level control and adjustable maximum output level
±6% pitch control
Fade in/out
Jog playback
Power on play feature
Various play and record modes such as auto track increment, auto cue,
auto ready, single/continuous play and program A/B play.
Wired remote control (RC-RA1000) included
Headphone output


Rear Panel Connections


(2) XLR balanced analog line inputs
(2) RCA unbalanced analog line inputs
(2) XLR balanced analog line outputs
(2) RCA unbalanced analog line outputs
(2) Stereo AES/EBU digital inputs on XLR balanced jacks
Stereo S/PDIF digital input on coaxial connector
(2) Stereo AES/EBU digital outputs on XLR balanced jacks
Stereo S/PDIF digital output on coaxial connector
(2) SDIF 3/DSD RAW inputs on BNC jacks
(2) SDIF 3/DSD RAW outputs on BNC jacks
USB 2.0 interface for connection to PC
RS-232 connector for device control
BNC Word Sync Input and Out/Thru with auto termination
Wired RC-RA1000 remote input

ps- now you know what this means, ALL your current disk players, no
matter what format they are, are obsolete, and worth about 9 bucks.
So drop them off at the Salvation Army, and go buy a DSD recorder.

or if you're smart, jump off that stupid downhill trainride, and buy
an Elcaset, or 3.75 IPS pro cassette rig, or open reel deck- and rest
assured digital is no better than analog anyway-

let's go boys...ante up- the membership price to your vaunted digital
format domain, is now $10 G's....10 big ones, for that DSD recorder.

here's the funny part- in 10 years, THAT will be on Ebay for $200 or
less, too..

are the light bulbs in your heads, starting to go off yet ?

[Scott Dorsey]

duty-honor-country wrote:
I originally started this thread looking for TASCAM 122/234 info-
obviously very few here have even TRIED the 3.75 IPS cassette format,
and have (foolishly) jumped to digital formats already.

No, you started this thread asking for people to tell you how wonderful
the tascam 122 was. You did not at any point actually want real information,
and when people gave you real information, you flew off the handle.

Please take this to rec.audio.opinion.

But since quite a few you have asked "why bother, just go digital",
let me say this- if you can put your money where your mouth is, then
buy one of these TASCAM DSD recorders- and "maybe" I'd agree, that
digital is better- at least with this machine. It records in SACD
quality 192/24 rez.

It would give analog-like performance and sound, but it costs $10
grand new. Now, unless you are going to ANTE UP and buy one, now-
then SIT DOWN. Otherwise you have Ferrari tastes, on a beer budget.

Actually, it's sort of the low end of the DSD market. If I were going
to go the DSD route (and I am seriously considering it right now, in
spite of the struggles of the SACD as a release format), I would probably
go with Eelco Grimm's converters or at least with the Meitner instead of
the bargain basement Tascam. The Tascam sounds okay; on a listening test
I was able to hear analogue tape artifacts from the tape they dubbed from,
but it's not a huge advance over high end PCM systems.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Edi Zubovic]

On 23 Mar 2007 07:08:56 -0700, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

On Mar 22, 5:43 pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
15 HZ TO 27,000 HZ with Type II tapes (FeCr) (NAB)
15 HZ TO 25,000 HZ with Type I tapes (standard FeO2) (NAB)

FeCr is Type III,

--I know for Sony Duad FeCr reel-to-reel tape only, perhaps there were
some others too. Not to be biased-up easily. As to Chrome tapes, they
eated up the heads as mad because chrome dioxide is so harder compared
to ferric oxide, even the particles may be finer. They were h-a-r-d.

-- Vinyl and even shellac lives in fans' hearts still. They are a
reality for those involved in archival and re-issue work. Analog tape
is still a delight for some professional recordists and they are also
are a common job for archivists. But generallyspeaking, cassettes are
dead and Elcaset is an Egyptian mummy. Once, Studer made a whole
broadcast automation project (was it the 2000?) for Elcasets. It has
been so long ago.

Yesterday, I took a tripod, headphones and Sony PCM-D1 to a rehearsal
of a Tamburica orchestra (Tamburica is similar to mandolin). I did
some very good recordings and I am evaluating them now. They are very
quiet, no self-noise at all, the instruments don't hit their pegs
until shocked by an loud event, which would ruin the recording so and
so; and the limiter works like a charm.
The conductor and everybody from the orchestra (mostly young folks)
was very satisfied with the results. As for me, a little low frequency
more would be desirable. The microphone capsules are small and it
seems there's a -3 dB/Oct. mild fall from some 350 Hz. And, this
modified X-Y setup requires a careful placement of performers. In
fact, it is a near-coincident crossed pair. The capsules are arranged
so close, that timing errors, phase and comb filtering issues would
occur far in the ultrasonic area. The batteries seem to hold the power
good, as we were around 3 hours there and the indicator showed 1/2 of
capacity at the end. This thing picks everything, wall clock had to be
stopped and you can hear the faint fluorescent lighting buzz -- in
fact not an issue as well. The electric noise is not picked by any
circuitry. At 24/96, the 20 kHz region behaves like 14--15 kHz region
of some other recordings I have, when observerd at a frequency
analyser plot.

Generally, it is a lovely piece of equipment and I wish to stress,
that despite I do like to put some of my old recorded tapes onto my
Revox B77, I will never ever have to transport it together with tapes,
cables, micrtophones and stands to an event. Everything fitted in my
pockets an a small bag and the results are great, be the recording
digital or not. Heck, who cares.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Peter Wieck]

On Mar 23, 10:26 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

and you guys are calling me a troll !

And a particularly dense one at that. This is a long-running example
of terminal schizophrenia that should be evident even to the likes of
you.

Those of us who have the entire Morein coterie killfiled only see this
tripe when some poor benighted fool (that would be you) answers it and
gives it life.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[duty-honor-country]

On Mar 23, 1:13 pm, "Peter Wieck" wrote:
On Mar 23, 10:26 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

and you guys are calling me a troll !

And a particularly dense one at that. This is a long-running example
of terminal schizophrenia that should be evident even to the likes of
you.

Those of us who have the entire Morein coterie killfiled only see this
tripe when some poor benighted fool (that would be you) answers it and
gives it life.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


now, now, Peter- it sounds like you're still sore, for me pointing out
an Akai M8 was a single ended amp, after you insisted it was push
pull, remember ?

[duty-honor-country]

On Mar 23, 1:13 pm, "Peter Wieck" wrote:
On Mar 23, 10:26 am, "jailhouserock"
wrote:

and you guys are calling me a troll !

And a particularly dense one at that. This is a long-running example
of terminal schizophrenia that should be evident even to the likes of
you.

Those of us who have the entire Morein coterie killfiled only see this
tripe when some poor benighted fool (that would be you) answers it and
gives it life.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA



see it here folks, Peter Wieck making a big mistake about the M-8

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5825a4ccd719b6

[duty-honor-country]

On Mar 23, 12:07 pm, Edi Zubovic edi.zubovic[rem
wrote:
On 23 Mar 2007 07:08:56 -0700, "jailhouserock"

wrote:
On Mar 22, 5:43 pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
15 HZ TO 27,000 HZ with Type II tapes (FeCr) (NAB)
15 HZ TO 25,000 HZ with Type I tapes (standard FeO2) (NAB)

FeCr is Type III,

--I know for Sony Duad FeCr reel-to-reel tape only, perhaps there were
some others too. Not to be biased-up easily. As to Chrome tapes, they
eated up the heads as mad because chrome dioxide is so harder compared
to ferric oxide, even the particles may be finer. They were h-a-r-d.

I've been told the metal tapes at 3.75 IPS will wear cassette deck
heads quickly, good point, sir.


-- Vinyl and even shellac lives in fans' hearts still. They are a
reality for those involved in archival and re-issue work. Analog tape
is still a delight for some professional recordists and they are also
are a common job for archivists. But generallyspeaking, cassettes are
dead and Elcaset is an Egyptian mummy. Once, Studer made a whole
broadcast automation project (was it the 2000?) for Elcasets. It has
been so long ago.

but at this point, isn't everything "dead" except high rez digital ?
IMO if it's not SACD or DVD-A, it's obsolete, or hanging on for dear
life. Even the standard CD, is now not so great anymore- to digital
lovers ! I stand by my previous statement, if one is to go digital,
go SACD w/DSD recorder- and pay the $10,000 entry fee.


Yesterday, I took a tripod, headphones and Sony PCM-D1 to a rehearsal
of a Tamburica orchestra (Tamburica is similar to mandolin). I did
some very good recordings and I am evaluating them now. They are very
quiet, no self-noise at all, the instruments don't hit their pegs
until shocked by an loud event, which would ruin the recording so and
so; and the limiter works like a charm.
The conductor and everybody from the orchestra (mostly young folks)
was very satisfied with the results. As for me, a little low frequency
more would be desirable. The microphone capsules are small and it
seems there's a -3 dB/Oct. mild fall from some 350 Hz. And, this
modified X-Y setup requires a careful placement of performers. In
fact, it is a near-coincident crossed pair. The capsules are arranged
so close, that timing errors, phase and comb filtering issues would
occur far in the ultrasonic area. The batteries seem to hold the power
good, as we were around 3 hours there and the indicator showed 1/2 of
capacity at the end. This thing picks everything, wall clock had to be
stopped and you can hear the faint fluorescent lighting buzz -- in
fact not an issue as well. The electric noise is not picked by any
circuitry. At 24/96, the 20 kHz region behaves like 14--15 kHz region
of some other recordings I have, when observerd at a frequency
analyser plot.


hmmm...interesting...one thing I noticed hearing a live orchestra,
there is no heavy bass hit when sitting there listening to it live,
like you hear on most recordings- the bass is kind of lost in the
music hall- so your recording is true to real life, in that respect

Generally, it is a lovely piece of equipment and I wish to stress,
that despite I do like to put some of my old recorded tapes onto my
Revox B77, I will never ever have to transport it together with tapes,
cables, micrtophones and stands to an event. Everything fitted in my
pockets an a small bag and the results are great, be the recording
digital or not. Heck, who cares.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

good post !

[duty-honor-country]

On Mar 23, 11:06 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
duty-honor-country wrote:
I originally started this thread looking for TASCAM 122/234 info-
obviously very few here have even TRIED the 3.75 IPS cassette format,
and have (foolishly) jumped to digital formats already.

No, you started this thread asking for people to tell you how wonderful
the tascam 122 was. You did not at any point actually want real information,
and when people gave you real information, you flew off the handle.

on the contrary, I asked if anyone had used the Tascam 122/234
machines at 3.75 IPS, and was told why bother, go digital.

I don't want to go digital. It's inferior IMO, unless you buy a SACD
recorder for ten grand from Tascam. Not cost effective.

For some reason, you have a problem with that.

Please take this to rec.audio.opinion.

fat chance- who are you to tell someone where to post ?


Actually, it's sort of the low end of the DSD market. If I were going
to go the DSD route (and I am seriously considering it right now, in
spite of the struggles of the SACD as a release format), I would probably
go with Eelco Grimm's converters or at least with the Meitner instead of
the bargain basement Tascam.

translation- you can't afford it. That unit is listed as "under ten
thousand"- like you're in that market ! yeh, right !

The Tascam sounds okay; on a listening test
I was able to hear analogue tape artifacts from the tape they dubbed from,
but it's not a huge advance over high end PCM systems.

if the artifacts are on the parent tape, well no kidding, they will be
on the DSD recording- what is so odd about that ?

[Richard Crowley]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
jailhouserock wrote:

The Elcaset at 3.75 IPS, sounds better than my 4 other reel decks at
7.5 IPS, it's because the Elk deck pulls the tape out and handles it
away from the cart, with no backing pad- azimuth and tracking are
dead-
nuts. It's simply amazing with the FeCr tapes. If I had to record
something with the best possible fidelity, I'd use the Elk deck with
FeCr- not the reels !

Perhaps you would be better off moving this thread to
rec.audio.opinion
where I think it might be better received.

I knew Elcasette was doomed when I went to see the first
model at the gigantic west-coast chain "Pacific Stereo".
The equipment looked nice enough, but you couldn't buy
the cassettes at PS (or anywhere else). You were stuck
wtih the one that came in the box. Stillborn.

The OP has shown himself to be completely non-linear
and now occupies an honored spot on my twit-list.

[Arny Krueger]

"jailhouserock" wrote in
message
oups.com
On Mar 21, 10:58 am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"jailhouserock" wrote in
ooglegroups.com





On Mar 21, 8:19 am, (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Paul Stamler" wrote in
message


I'm not sure you're making sense here, but never
mind. Analog -- even good analog -- sucks in some
ways.

No matter how they tried to overcome its inherent
limitations, analog tape never got to be sonically
transparent.

Depends on what you mean by that. I bet I can do a
double-blind test where you can't tell the input of the
ATR-100 from the output. I bet
I could EVEN do it with cassette if I selected the
sample material right. --scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

exactly- you're one of the sharper guys here.

Well yes, but what he's really doing is making a joke
with me.

what I think happens is this- new digital gear comes
out, people go out and buy it- and then feel the need to
defend it- because otherwise, they'd have to admit that
20-30 year old analog gear is just as good and even
better, and costs far less

No way Jose'

yes way, Jose- you were testing cassette decks at 1-7/8
IPS that had a 13 KHZ top end.

In what alternative universe?

Then trying to make
analogies about how good the formats were.

Don't need tests to convince of that, just need a decent listennig test.

test a cassette deck with metal tape that goes to 22 khz
like a NAK, then make your comparison

You show me a Nak that goes to 20 KHz at 0 dB with +/- 0.5 dB response, and
does the same at -20db, and you've got a deal.

You show me a Nak that goes to 20 Hz at 0 dB with +/- 0.5 dB response, and
does the same at -20db, and you've got a deal.

You show me a Nak with 90 dB dynamic range, and you've got a deal.

You show me a Nak with 0.01% flutter and wor, and you've got a deal.

or test a 3.75 IPS deck

Been there done that.

you'll be surprised

In what alternative universe?

[Richard Crowley]

"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
"jailhouserock" wrote ...
you'll be surprised

In what alternative universe?

The guy is certifiably clueless.
Let him go off and play with his little toys.
This is why killfiles were invented.

[Arny Krueger]

"DeserTBoB" wrote in message

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:58:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"jailhouserock" wrote in
message
ps.com

I have spoken to
guys that bought them new, many still love the machines
and won't sell them- they have 25 hz-20khz bandwidth
(according to what is in this guy's owner manual) -

You really believe that crap?

25-20 KHz at what level and with how many dBs tolerance?
If you can't provide those two key addiational
parameters, you're talking marketing crap, not
technology.

basically CD quality

Can't happen. It takes more then 15 ips half track to
get true CD quality.

but analog cassette 3.75 IPS on a metal tape- how bad
can they be ?

By modern standards? Absolute drek. :-( snip

Charlie Nudo (aka "Noodles") doesn't understand at what
record level those freq. runs were made. AFAIK, no music
on earth is recordable at a constant -20 VU.

Just to split hairs, you *can* successfully record with peak levels of -20
dB on a lot of that modern digital hardware that "Jailhouserock" loves to
hate. I'm not proud, I've been there and done that by mistake. And, I
record with peak levels of -10 dB quite proudly.

But try that on one of his blessed cassette machines, and it is a recipe for
disaster.

Hey Noodles! What's the freq response of that beater at
Dolby level? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Not pretty, even at 3 3/4 ips and every cassette tweak in the book including
HX.

Charlie Nudo of Drums, PA....petty criminal on eBay,
mentally ill elsewhere.

Is he the guy who is flogging all that Tascam cassette tape hardware on
eBay?

If so, figures!

[William Sommerwerck]

Just to split hairs, you *can* successfully record with
peak levels of -20 dB on a lot of that modern digital
hardware that "Jailhouserock" loves to hate. I'm not proud,
I've been there and done that by mistake. And, I record
with peak levels of -10 dB quite proudly.

1 bit below FS is 6dB down. So -10dB is a loss of bit ahem more than 1
bit. Not critical for most program material.

[Arny Krueger]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message

Just to split hairs, you *can* successfully record with
peak levels of -20 dB on a lot of that modern digital
hardware that "Jailhouserock" loves to hate. I'm not
proud, I've been there and done that by mistake. And, I
record with peak levels of -10 dB quite proudly.

1 bit below FS is 6dB down. So -10dB is a loss of bit
ahem more than 1 bit. Not critical for most program
material.

Check out just about any live recording and the noise floor will less than
70 dB below FS. A true 16 bit system will put the noise floor is 96 or more
dB down, so there are about 26 dB or 4-5 bits to play around with. You
really do want the venue's noise floor to define the noise floor of the
recording, not the digital recorder. So, its probably best to do no worse
than splitting the difference, leaving 6-12 dB of headroom.

[duty-honor-country]

On Mar 26, 9:30 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"DeserTBoB" wrote in message

25-20 KHz at what level and with how many dBs tolerance?
If you can't provide those two key addiational
parameters, you're talking marketing crap, not
technology.


OK Arnie K- please evaluate this BIC T-4M deck- here is a complete
spec and review writeup- please tell me how the dB's tolerance and
levels shown in these tests, affect this unit. It seems to have
quite wide FR to me.

http://i9.tinypic.com/352re5f.jpg

http://i11.tinypic.com/4dgxj7p.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/2qcngyd.jpg


Can't happen. It takes more then 15 ips half track to
get true CD quality.

CD can't even match 3.75 IPS analog 1/4" 4-track stereo.


By modern standards? Absolute drek. :-( snip

yet you don't own a SACD- DSD recorder- if you so strongly believe
this new technology is the best, why haven't you anted up ?

Just to split hairs, you *can* successfully record with peak levels of -20
dB on a lot of that modern digital hardware that "Jailhouserock" loves to
hate. I'm not proud, I've been there and done that by mistake. And, I
record with peak levels of -10 dB quite proudly.

I don't hate the new digital stuff- but it's pretty damn obvious,
anything less than SACD DSD is simply not in the same league as
analog.


But try that on one of his blessed cassette machines, and it is a recipe for
disaster.

what disaster ? monitor the tape with the 3rd playback head- adjust
levels so it sounds right with headphones, with no distortion- rewind-
record

some disaster...



Hey Noodles! What's the freq response of that beater at
Dolby level? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

the guy who posted this remark, sold his NAK cassette, and now listens
to a $12 Onkyo cassette deck from Ebay- I rest my case !

Is he the guy who is flogging all that Tascamcassette tape hardware on
eBay?

No, I'm not selling any TASCAM stuff.

[Arny Krueger]

"duty-honor-country" wrote
in message
ups.com
On Mar 26, 9:30 am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"DeserTBoB" wrote in message

25-20 KHz at what level and with how many dBs
tolerance? If you can't provide those two key
addiational parameters, you're talking marketing crap,
not technology.


OK Arnie K- please evaluate this BIC T-4M deck- here is a
complete spec and review writeup- please tell me how the
dB's tolerance and levels shown in these tests, affect
this unit. It seems to have quite wide FR to me.

http://i9.tinypic.com/352re5f.jpg

http://i11.tinypic.com/4dgxj7p.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/2qcngyd.jpg

Already did that in another thread that was started today.

Can't happen. It takes more then 15 ips half track to
get true CD quality.

CD can't even match 3.75 IPS analog 1/4" 4-track stereo.

Sure it can.

Please focus your attention on figure 3, the lower two plots, taken at your
preferred operational speed of 3.75 ips

Treble response is about 3 dB down at 10 KHz, and rolling off at 12 dB or
more per octave. This should be clearly audible as a noticable dulling of
the upper treble range. This will take the live edge off of brushed cymbals,
etc.

A modern digital recorder that was 3 dB down at 10 KHz would be called
"junk" by just about any knowlegeable person. One of the lowest quality
kinds of digital players around is the analog audio section of a computer's
optical (CD or DVD) drive. For years they have all been within 1 dB or
better of flat at 10 KHz. Of course, in digital mode, these same players
are perfectly flat and add no distortion.


By modern standards? Absolute drek. :-( snip

yet you don't own a SACD- DSD recorder

But I do have a number of record/play audio interfaces that work at 24/96
and 24/192

- if you so
strongly believe this new technology is the best, why
haven't you anted up ?

I've had 24/96 computer audio interfaces since no later than the year 2000.
Here's a tech report I posted back then:

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/C...luxe/index.htm

I've had a LynxTwo since no later than 2002. Here's a tech report I posted
back then:

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/LynxTWO/index.htm

Just to split hairs, you *can* successfully record with
peak levels of -20 dB on a lot of that modern digital
hardware that "Jailhouserock" loves to hate. I'm not
proud, I've been there and done that by mistake. And, I
record with peak levels of -10 dB quite proudly.

I don't hate the new digital stuff- but it's pretty damn
obvious, anything less than SACD DSD is simply not in the
same league as analog.

Even the 16/44 CD format can exceed the performance of real world analog
gear in actual use.

But try that on one of his blessed cassette machines,
and it is a recipe for disaster.

what disaster ? monitor the tape with the 3rd playback
head- adjust levels so it sounds right with headphones,
with no distortion- rewind- record

Maybe with your ears. -3 dB down at 10 KHz is not exactly inaudible to most
well-trained ears.

BTW, here are some musical samples I made to help people establish the SQ of
various sample rates, etc on their own:

http://www.pcabx.com/technical/sample_rates/index.htm

Your cassette deck @ 3 3/4 ips and 0 dB performs about like 22 KHz sampling,
certainly no better than 28 KHz sampling.

[Jon Yaeger]

in article , DeserTBoB at
wrote on 3/29/07 1:40 PM:

snip perennial drivel


I'm going to recommend to the publishers of the DSM a new category:

"The Morein Syndrome"

The malady involves the compulsion to publish on the internet, often at
random and always ad nauseum, "facts" about a neer-do-well or internet
"fraudster."

As of this writing it appears to be a personality disorder, and as such,
there really is no effective cure or treatment (except to take away the PC
and internet access).


- Jon

[Peter Wieck]

On Mar 29, 7:45 pm, "Bret Ludwig" wrote:

He's a ****, not quite as bad as Phil Allison.

Oh, I dunno. Phil at least has a brain lurking somewhere between what
passes for his ears. And his disability is exactly that, beyond his
ability to control without external intervention.

Nudo is a coward who never served in the military, yet uses military
jargon in an attempt to absorb credibility he has entirely lost (or
more likely never had) by his own efforts. And he became the way he is
by deliberate choice, all by himself. Infinitely worse than Phil.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA