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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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(hank alrich) wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:
But there's nothing new there. Funny how the suits* end up controlling
the budget. And that budget doesn't go to those smelly people
who make the stuff; it goes to other suits because that fits
the norms better.

*not picking teh suits; it's just a nice punchy word.

This is literally true everywhere. It's not limited to music. There
were cases at a former employer where just contract process navigation
cost more than the contract.


This is not new and it's not a bad thing either. The problem is when the
suits who are making those decisions have no vision beyond the next week,
and I think that is comparatively new.
--scott


The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.


The money started getting bigger in the 1980s. Remember Geffen Records?
Too much money makes you lose focus. Plus reselling all that back
catalog was so profitable...

http://thinkjarcollective.com/articl...-on-the-value-
of-cigar-chomping-old-guys/

The "cigar chomping old guys" were actual entrepreneurs. "Too much
money" is generally a huge problem if you care about what you do.
It attracts the wrong element, pumps your ego the wrong way.

--
Les Cargill

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On 23/01/2015 5:00 a.m., wrote:
Paul: play CDs in the car and at home.
No substitute for good sound!



I graduated to ipdo (ALAC) in car. CDs (and SACDs) at home though.

geoff
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среда, 21. јануар 2015. 02.28.29 UTC+1, hank alrich је написао/ла:
Luxey wrote:


...advocating "music for free" said: "You do not buy a fork each time
you're to eat a steak."

Go figure.

(His idea was that author would sell piece of music once, for fixed
price, fairly high, and be done with it.)


I will make a CD for him for $25,000.00. One copy only. Have him get in
touch.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic


Well, Hank, if I thought there was a speck of chance to sell anything to this
youngster, except, maybe, but doubtfully, some retro Ford car cosmetic
upgrades, at flea market rates, I'd surelly give you that contact and would not
even charge.

For the serious talk,
a. your kind, or mine, we were not in that conversation.
People making own music, in the eyes of these young intellectuals, are having
it for free (since they did not buy it from someone else) so, by default, they
should give it for free, while recouping all the costs and possibly earning
something exclusively by playing gigs.


b. Mentioned authors, selling pieces of music, were understood to be professional music writers, hit makers, ... and the buing party was understood
to be advancing, or established performing artist. After selling, author should
not expect any royalties, and artist should proceede as explained in a. above.

That is their reasoning.
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geoff wrote: "I think YOU are the racist here. "

Well maybe I am! Or, maybe I just feel
ashamed to be a member of the most racist
ethnic group of human beings to walk this
planet.
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Les Cargill wrote:

(hank alrich) wrote:


The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.


The money started getting bigger in the 1980s. Remember Geffen Records?


Yep. So much power, the ability to shatter dreams as easily as enable
them. See The Sims Foundation, following the suicide of Sims Ellison.

Too much money makes you lose focus. Plus reselling all that back
catalog was so profitable...


An extractive resource industry, rather that a creative one.

http://thinkjarcollective.com/articl...-on-the-value-
of-cigar-chomping-old-guys/


I dig that video. Frank is always insightful. He left us just as he was
thinking about running for POTUS.

The "cigar chomping old guys" were actual entrepreneurs. "Too much
money" is generally a huge problem if you care about what you do.
It attracts the wrong element, pumps your ego the wrong way.


Billionaires have millionaires for groupies. This is one big butt
sniffering fest. Perspective fades.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
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(hank alrich) wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:

(hank alrich) wrote:

The suits entered when the founders retired and the labels were taken
over by Wall Street. I'm thinking that began in earnest in the 1980's.


The money started getting bigger in the 1980s. Remember Geffen Records?


Yep. So much power, the ability to shatter dreams as easily as enable
them. See The Sims Foundation, following the suicide of Sims Ellison.


Whew.

Too much money makes you lose focus. Plus reselling all that back
catalog was so profitable...


An extractive resource industry, rather that a creative one.


To an extent, but even extractive industries practice some
measure of husbandry. Where they go bad is when the money leaves
and they don't have the resources to follow up like they should.

http://thinkjarcollective.com/articl...-on-the-value-
of-cigar-chomping-old-guys/


I dig that video. Frank is always insightful. He left us just as he was
thinking about running for POTUS.


Yep. SFAIK, the point is original with him.

The "cigar chomping old guys" were actual entrepreneurs. "Too much
money" is generally a huge problem if you care about what you do.
It attracts the wrong element, pumps your ego the wrong way.


Billionaires have millionaires for groupies. This is one big butt
sniffering fest. Perspective fades.


--
Les Cargill

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Paul wrote:
On 1/21/2015 9:47 PM, Les Cargill wrote:


They don't need to pirate or download anything these days.

Anyone with an internet connection can Youtube, Spotify, Bandcamp,
or Reverbnation practically anything.

Astounding, really.....


Pretty much.


And now that most people have internet on their phones, you can
access even the most obscure bootleg music from practically anywhere. No
need to save it on the phone, it's all in the "cloud"!


Yep.

The only place I still play CDs on occasion, is in my car, but
since CD players are being replaced with USB connections, this will soon
be an ancient practice.

Another nail on the coffin, will be when Bluetooth connectivity
is standard on all car stereos and smart phones, as some people already
have:


http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-play-...-an-audio-cord


Most newer cars have a 1/8" AUX input already.


Technology moves so quick, our heads are spinnin'!

:O




--
Les Cargill



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Les Cargill wrote: "Most newer cars have a 1/8" AUX input already."

+1!
I'll trust my aux jack any day over any wireless format.
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John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
- show quoted text -"


NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
admit it.
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Jeff Henig wrote:
wrote:
John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
- show quoted text -"


NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
admit it.


eyeroll

#AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter

PLONK



Reminds me of Fingaz in Mixerman's book (trying to swerve this back on
topic here).


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Jeff Henig wrote:
wrote:
John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
- show quoted text -"


NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
admit it.


eyeroll

#AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter

PLONK


A Caucasian, you say?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_oif_zBb7yXVc6WxdquPha68wdmYPw n3ENXTlZ2PmL9MTGphDQrB_unk2-Q

--
Les Cargill

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Ralph Barone wrote:

Jeff Henig wrote:
wrote:
John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
- show quoted text -"


NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
admit it.


eyeroll

#AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter

PLONK



Reminds me of Fingaz in Mixerman's book (trying to swerve this back on
topic here).


Funny, Ralph! Thank you.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
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Les Cargill wrote:

Jeff Henig wrote:
wrote:
John Williamson wrote: "- show quoted text -
You're in the Klan? Who'd have thought it?
- show quoted text -"


NO. But I am caucasian - and ashamed to
admit it.


eyeroll

#AshamedCaucasianLivesMatter

PLONK


A Caucasian, you say?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i..._zBb7yXVc6Wxdq
uPha68wdmYPwn3ENXTlZ2PmL9MTGphDQrB_unk2-Q

--
Les Cargill


Ah, we're on a roll tonight!

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
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On 22/01/2015 1:57 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 1/21/2015 1:56 AM, Trevor wrote:
While I might personally think that hip hop and gangsta rap has no value
whatsoever, many of the artists seem to be doing VERY well indeed with
multi-million dollar mansions and garages full of luxury cars. Frankly I
don't see any change at all over the years, with a few artists making a
fortune, and the majority of artists scratching to get by


Right. The availability of music recording and distribution at low cost
isn't making any more artists wealthy. However, the pool is both much
bigger and more crowded because of the lower price of admission.


True.

The likelihood that a modestly talented artist will find a way to great
wealth is much less than it ever was.



I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented artists
with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more talented
artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about actual musical
proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much in the ear of the
beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is fairly judged by
CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made by some artists who
cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing without a "guide track",
auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the real lead parts, might
suggest otherwise. :-(
But perhaps it's just me who wants to see a singer actually sing rather
than dance! ;-)

Trevor.








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On 22/01/2015 4:03 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?


Yep, I have often said the same. Sometimes they prove me wrong, but not
as often as they would like! :-)

Trevor.


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On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
Most likely not.


I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties



Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)

Trevor.


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On 22/01/2015 6:05 AM, Nil wrote:
On 21 Jan 2015, Frank Stearns
wrote in rec.audio.pro:

The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff
20 years from now?


Well, yes, they will. Rap and Hip Hop has been around since the '70s
and Gangsta Rap since the '80s, and some of that stuff is still
"remembered" today.


As a genre yes, but hardly any of that material from the 70's and
eighties is still played or performed today. Certainly not here anyway,
not even by those who bough the CD's IME :-)
Perhaps it is somewhere? I'd bet not that widespread though.

Trevor.


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On 27/01/2015 07:07, Trevor wrote:
On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20
years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform
it again?
Most likely not.


I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of
time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties



Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)

Some of them are still playing and recording.

They are the musicians that are remembered. There were many hundreds of
live bands and many recorded bands from the '60s that aren't remembered
now.

Danny Williams, Frank Ifield, The Four Pennies, Jackie Trent and The
Spencer Davies Group all had number one hits in the '60s, but you very
rarely hear them played now, even on the Oldies stations.

Then, a bit later, there were bands like Bucks Fizz, who were famous
worldwide for a while because of one song that won a contest. The
members still perform individually, but their hits are only played
ironically.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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On 27/01/2015 9:23 PM, John Williamson wrote:
On 27/01/2015 07:07, Trevor wrote:
On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20
years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform
it again?
Most likely not.

I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of
time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties



Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)

Some of them are still playing and recording.

They are the musicians that are remembered. There were many hundreds of
live bands and many recorded bands from the '60s that aren't remembered
now.

Danny Williams, Frank Ifield, The Four Pennies, Jackie Trent and The
Spencer Davies Group all had number one hits in the '60s, but you very
rarely hear them played now, even on the Oldies stations.


And yet I'd still bet there are more acts from the sixties being played
in 20 years time than there are acts from today! There's certainly FAR
more music from the sixties and seventies still being played here than
music from the 90's and 00's. And I don't see the 10's being any
improvement myself.


Then, a bit later, there were bands like Bucks Fizz, who were famous
worldwide for a while because of one song that won a contest. The
members still perform individually, but their hits are only played
ironically.


Right, and there were some like that actually in the sixties as well,
just as there are now. But that hardly proves anything other than there
will always be some good, not so good, and bad acts.

Trevor.

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In article , Trevor wrote:
I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented artists
with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more talented
artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about actual musical
proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much in the ear of the
beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is fairly judged by
CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made by some artists who
cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing without a "guide track",
auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the real lead parts, might
suggest otherwise. :-(


This is indeed true. The thing is, I am not sure it was any different
forty years ago.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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In article , Trevor wrote:
On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
Most likely not.


I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties


Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)


They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
and so forth.
--scott


Trevor.




--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor
wrote:
I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented
artists with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more
talented artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about
actual musical proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much
in the ear of the beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is
fairly judged by CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made
by some artists who cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing
without a "guide track", auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the
real lead parts, might suggest otherwise. :-(


This is indeed true. The thing is, I am not sure it was any different
forty years ago.

There have always been concurrent "entertainers" and musical virtuosos, and
I don't see much reason to conflate the two categories. I still enjoy
listening to May West sing when one of her movies come on, but not
necessarily for her proficiency as a vocalist. ;-)
--
best regards,

Neil


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On 27/01/2015 13:53, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
Most likely not.

I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties


Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)


They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
and so forth.
--scott


I do... :-)

Well, the ones that charted in the UK, anyway. Then again, I've been
known to host the odd 60s revival disco.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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On 27/01/2015 13:49, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
I don't really agree with that. IME it's the moderately talented artists
with great marketing that are doing the best, while far more talented
artists are struggling. To be clear I am talking about actual musical
proficiency here since artistic "merit" is very much in the ear of the
beholder, and it could be argued that "talent" is fairly judged by
CD/ticket sales. I would argue the huge money made by some artists who
cannot play an instrument, and cannot sing without a "guide track",
auto-tune, and "back-up" singers doing the real lead parts, might
suggest otherwise. :-(


This is indeed true. The thing is, I am not sure it was any different
forty years ago.
--scott

The difference was that in the days before cheap home studios to get
really famous, the artistes needed to impress the A&R guys enough to
sign the authorisation for the studio time, which weeded quite a few
out. They still played live, of course, and there were some really good
people playing in pubs that I visited. There were also some really bad
people playing in pubs that I visited briefly.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Scott Dorsey wrote:

Paul Revere and the Raiders,


Kept touring successfully, if under the big radar, until he passed away
last year! People tell me he was a fine guy, and that the shows were
extremely entertaining and loads of fun.

--
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hank alrich wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Paul Revere and the Raiders,


Kept touring successfully, if under the big radar, until he passed away
last year! People tell me he was a fine guy, and that the shows were
extremely entertaining and loads of fun.


Yes! There's an example of a very fine performer who actually put out a
lot of good music, but who had one hit, dropped off the charts, and never
got any of his other work recognized.

But... he had a hit, which is more than a lot of other fine performers
could say. And he seemed to have had a good time.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 7:53:55 AM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
Most likely not.

I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties


Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)


They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
and so forth.


Not to mention the Serpent Power. I was damfool enough to buy their album because I trusted that Vanguard would never put out total trash. I was wrong.

Peace,
Paul
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On 28/01/2015 12:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 22/01/2015 5:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:
The true test will be one of time. Will anyone remember this stuff 20 years from
now? Will anyone be inspired enough to go out of their way to perform it again?
Most likely not.

I predict that there _will_ be rap music that will stand the test of time,
but that most of it will disappear and never be heard again. Just like
happened to the pop music of the sixties


Yeah, no one remembers the Beatles, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones, Beach
Boys, Monkees, Byrds etc etc. And I guess I must be imagining all those
oldies stations playing nothing else! :-)


They remember those guys. What they don't remember are Jan and Dean, the
1910 Fruitgum Company, the Fun and Games, the Standells, the Hi-Rollers,
The Mystery Trend, The Magic Mushrooms, The Electric Prunes, Paul Revere
and the Raiders, Fenwyck, The Weevils, Sam the Sham, the Royal Guardsmen,
and so forth.
--scott


So what, there are always LOTS of artists who have a hit or two and are
never heard of again. Plenty now will fill the same role. What I claim,
and you seem to disagree with (fine since it's a matter of opinion and
impossible to prove) is that there are far more artists from the sixties
and seventies who have stood the test of time, than (again IMO) will
today's artists, and that none will be remembered in the same light as
the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Elvis Presley etc.

And personally I'd still rather listen to Paul Revere, or the Royal
Guardsmen than most of today's rap music, actually I do! :-)
I can even get a smile out of my friends kids by playing Snoopy Vs the
Red Baron. Now if you want to talk crap from days of old, there are far
better examples IMO, although perhaps 1910's "Yummy Yummy" probably
comes very close!!

Trevor.





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On 28/01/2015 4:00 AM, John Williamson wrote:
The difference was that in the days before cheap home studios to get
really famous, the artistes needed to impress the A&R guys enough to
sign the authorisation for the studio time, which weeded quite a few
out.


Unfortunately the A&R guys didn't have a very good track record for
picking winners. I far prefer the fact that artists can now record a CD
at little cost, promote themselves, and let the public decide rather
than the cigar chompers who dismissed the Beatles etc.

Trevor.



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субота, 31. јануар 2015. 01.34.03 UTC+1, JackA је написао/ла:

Unofficially published (complete session version):
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abps...tsworth-er.mp3


WTF is this? Who is doing all these mixes you post and why? For what it's worth, you cant ruin an excellent song, one former prominent RAPer used to say: "nobody
ever left the studio whistling console", but original commercial mixes speak so
much more than this flat wannabe crap, IMO, you're posting here.
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On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 8:01:09 PM UTC-5, Luxey wrote:
субота, 31. јануар 2015. 01.34.03 UTC+1, JackA је написао/ла:

Unofficially published (complete session version):
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abps...tsworth-er.mp3


WTF is this? Who is doing all these mixes you post and why? For what it's worth, you cant ruin an excellent song, one former prominent RAPer used to say: "nobody
ever left the studio whistling console", but original commercial mixes speak so
much more than this flat wannabe crap, IMO, you're posting here.


I do all my mixes, nothing is faked, nothing artificially extended. You may call it crap or anything else you wish. All I know, without me, jellybean, you'll be like many others thinking you heard the complete song! Excuse me now, have to update a few thousand lyrics sites!!! :-)

Any leave KMA alone, he's a good person and valued participant here!!

Jack
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